Last thread just got 404ed for unknown reasons.
Some anon asked about a short story, let's start from that.
Favorite Wolfe short stories? Best collections?
>>7754127
wait, they destroyed the gene wolfe thread? those fuckers. HE'S A FUCKING GENIUS, YOU FAGGOT MODS
>>7754137
Especially considering they've been a thing for what a year now? And it was the only thread up anyway.
>>7754127
>>7754149
Relatively accurate
>>7754127
>tfw I forgot to save amanani's shirtless pic
End me.
>>7754167
>lusting after manlets
>>7754167
Maybe he'll post it again.
Either way he has it on YouTube.
>>7754167
>amanani
HEHAHAHAHAH
>>7754127
Since my last post probably wasn't seen except by a few people. I'll try and repost it, directed at Marc.
Marc, what's your take on The Last Thrilling Wonder Story. To me it seems to be almost a response to certain critics (read: Wright and Borski) attempting to interpret Wolfe works (especially BotNS) as inherently fatalistic or otherwise promoting the heretical doctrine of predestination. The story has always fascinated me and is one of my personal favorite Wolfe stories because it makes a clear and conscious point about the nature of free will and religious freedom. Your insights would be really appreciated.
Also, how much of Faulkner do you think influenced Wolfe? Peace, to me, seems heavily influenced by Faulkner's style, both in narrative technique and themes.
Thanks for all your insight, Marc.
>>7754172
There's not too many /lit/ guys with a 6 pack, I'll take what I can get.
>>7754195
I have a long analysis on it but it is actually about free will ... let me see if i can repost it here give me a bit.
>>7754203
>looking for men on /lit/
>>7754207
Looking forward to it. Thanks.
>>7754213
It was too long. Here is the link to its first version on urth net, commentary is below detailed summary.
http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/2014-August/055046.html
>>7754207
hey, marc. have you ever cried while reading Gene Wolfe?
>>7754213
>http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/2014-August/055046.htm
awesome. Thanks. Any comments on the Faulkner thing?
also,what's the best way to lose weight fast?
>>7754222
Marc I literally look just like severian should i post a pic?
>>7754223
There are maybe two or three scenes. La befana's last line and sometimes the last line of island of doctor death and other stories gets me, when tackman tells dr death he doesnt want to finish the book because he will die, and dr death says he can just read it again. It's the same with you. You just don't know it yet. The wild hyacinth blooming though trodden under the shepherd's heel might have gotten me too.
>>7754225
Move to a tropical island, sweat constantly during your daily grind, and for proteins, eat primarily fish (minimal fat intake)
>>7754228
Sure if you so desire. Up to you.
>>7754231
not those kind of tears, the other kind.
>>7754228
Sure, why not? Though I am ultimately the final say for any similitudes with Severian, as I am without peer.
>>7754203
And they call men superficial...
>inb4 omg ur just a fat ugly neckbeard
Doesn't matter, the fact that you are looking for a relationship on a board specifically made for the discussion of literature is pathetic.
You don't give a shit about books, you only care for your outward image. And that's really fucking sad.
>>7754225
As far as Faulkner ... the long sentences in peace are certainly more derivative of Proust ... i think while Wolfe is a modernist but generally british precursors had a greater influence on him, and pulp fiction. Kipling, dickens, vance ... while the aesthetic aims of a southern writer might seem close to Faulkner, I dont think it is a direct influence. Late, minimalistic Wolfe might have an echo of Hemingway, however.
>>7754225Eat slightly less calories than your BMR, mostly protein to prevent muscle wasting, you can take ephedrine and caffeine to suppress appetite during as well assuming you have a strong heart. You could also take DNP for a month, though that comes with legal hassles depending on where you're located.
>>7754241
woah. calm down. who cares what someone else is attracted to? i was the memer who laughed about it, but isn't that enough? don't go MGTOW on us bruh.
>>7754241
Let us not mock those who find me beautiful, for surely it is folly to marginalize those who are simply correct in their assessments.
>>7754248
i mean, look at shit like this. the guy is corny as fuck. you have nothing to worry about if this woo game is what picks up the ladies.
>>7754241
He's pathetic but boy are you a dumb one
>>7754242
Thanks. If there's one Wolfe work that you think will eventually break Wolfe into the "academic circle" what do you think it is and why? My vote goes to Peace, as it's the most "traditional" of his major works (read: it'sa ghost story that isn't revealed to be a ghost story until almost the end of the novel), it's a manageable length, and uses modernist techniques critics and scholars jizz over.
Thanks.
>>7754255
hey, don't be so hard on the guy. there is soul crushing loneliness and jealousy behind those words. so many times being crushed by the lack of one's own will, it only worsens when the will of others joins the pressure. we are fragile men, there is no escaping it. clumsy, needy, strange. you won't love him, ever, he knows that, the idea to him of a woman enjoying literature like he does probably makes him yearn for the link of minds. sex is so secondary to men like us, we want to feel the touch of minds, even if ours are inferior, and we know it.
>>7754258
>modernist techniques
yes, one of the last of them, dealing with the simurgh, is actually a nice bridge point to botns.
>>7754244
Thanks, anon.
>>7754261
Patronization and projection won't work on me. I purged most of my frailty long ago, though one day it may all collapse on me.
I became distant from sympathizing at arm's length after reading Schopenhauer. People may hurt other people, but for solutions to that, even more so than the naivete of Schopenhauer, I am on the path towards vindicating the fallen. Maybe I'll learn to be more compassionate eventually, but for now, being a misanthropic partisan is what works for me.
guys I finished reading The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories a while ago and there were some things that I really did not understand, might as well ask here
What did the protagonist see at the end of Tracking Song? What was the winged figure?
what the fuck happened in Seven American Nights? that was by far the most cryptic story I've read of his thus far, any given part of it could be a drug induced hallucination, a forgery or a straight out lie
>>7754241
Jesus Christ, I never said I wanted to date the guy. I was (mostly) joking. Yeah this is a literature board but it's still 4chan. You have to have a littler irrelevance once in a while.
>>7754279
what? you pretty much proved everything i just said, man. I know. I beent there. I am there. shut up with that nonsense. why defend?
So is Wolfe actually good or are you fags just memeing?
I just finished 2666 and I'm looking to mellow a bit with some good sci-fi books, and I'm all out of Dick.
>>7754283
>what the fuck happened in Seven American Nights?
Also wondering about this. This is, by far, the most difficult story to decipher in Wolfe's bibliography (IMO).
>>7754295
I'm admit that I am as confused as you concerning the world, but I am still more capable as a person.
Again, stop projecting.
>>7754301
yes he's fucking great. Superior to Dick in every way (and I have a great deal of respect for PKD). Don't let the shitposters throw out there
>le genre fiction
meme's. Gene "the meme" Wolfe is certainly one of the great writers of the last century without question.
>>7754283
>Seven American Nights
The protagonist is suspected of being a middle eastern spy and is killed by the modern USA's version of the FBI.
Has anyone else read A Borrowed Man yet? I was pretty disappointed by it desu
>>7754308
False! Wolfe does not provide the overwhelmingly eerie aura of paranoia that PKD does.
>>7754306
you think so? you sure you're a more capable person? why?
>>7754316
Yeah but that's not his aim. If he were trying to accomplish that, we could make this criticism, but he doesn't. Again, I have a great deal of respect for PKD, but he's nowhere near the same level as Wolfe.
>>7754320
Except Wolfe does do that. Remember Severian blabbing about constellations and falling off the surface of the earth? Undoubtedly paranoia. Wolfe's short story about exploring an attic? More paranoia! Wolfe occasionally weaves a web of mental delusion, but he is much softer in comparison to PKD.
>>7754320
Dick doesn't try to achieve the things that Wolfe does either. So that invalidates absolutely everything you've been saying.
>>7754320
This is a stupid dichotomy. Dick and Wolfe inevitably overlap in some techniques, they both work at the boundaries of literary techniques after all.
Dick and Wolfe each has their respective styles that are distinct from each other, and each has their own strengths and weaknesses. To chauvinistically consider one 'superior in every way' to the other is plainly drivel.
>>7754340
Yes. I understand your point. And Wolfe himself seems to have a great deal of respect for PKD, so take that for what it's worth.
>>7754350
So why did you bother posting in the first place? Get your shit together before you make yourself look like a jackass again.
>>7754353
Nah. I could go on and explain why Wolfe is superior, but I don't feel like wasting my time on a Russian Fabrege scat porn website. But to give you a few short reasons: general aesthetics (techniques utilized, prose, allusions, etc.), cohesive thematic purposes, and the most masterful use of metatfictional narrative in the past century.
>>7754283
Here is my take on seven american nights: protagonist is taken on thursday, machine writes friday entry, gholam gassem makes a deal to poison the bread supply of europe with the terrible drugs of the US
http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/2014-September/055371.html
>>7754283
Winged figure either represents a bird totem for the coming of spring to the planet or/and the next stage of men coming to dwell on the warming terraformed planet. Cutthroat is so named because he is the spring sacrifice, sent to see if the raised animals are ready to be reunited with humanity and work together, though he must die and be left without aid there as the test for the planet.
>>7754370
You're an idiot. Overall I do consider Wolfe the finer, more technically capable writer, but you lapsed when you said he does everything better, which is false, as each does things better than the other.
And you're wasting your life overall. You just can't provide an analysis because you're spineless and incompetent, like the rest of the punks here.
>>7754382
cool story bro.
>>7754301
Wolfe really isnt someone you can mellow with, honestly, as he is a bit deeper than the entirely too Twin peaks inspired 2666, to be honest. Of course the diabolic influence is slightly undercut by the reality of all those murders in Mexico, but I think Bolano is certainly implying their is a malicious infective and possibly omnipresent spirit of murder at work.
>>7754370
>Typos, bad grammar, shaky position
Yup, totally a smart guy.
>>7754258
Peace, fifth head, or new sun but some of his stories should be canonical. The changeling, suzanne delage, eyeflash miracles, seven american nights, island of doctor death and other stories, death of doctor island ... all sublime and worth much more than lame dystopias like 1984 (which proved prescient because people suck worse than I thought), harrison bergeron, or brave new world ... alas, those guys were kind of right. I wouldn't have believed it when i was a kid. What the hell happened?
>>7754399
>What the hell happened?
it were the gerdem ferkin jews!
>>7754249
If you love yourself and know you are the best, it affects the perception of more social creatures. They want to chase an ideal, too, so present yourself like one, especially if you foster a vastly superior intellect. Remember that equality is the opiate of the masses and the lie the pathetic whisper to themselves alone in bed at night. Act great and they will treat you as such.
>on-topic thread is kill
>no warosu
>>7754308
Shitposter.
>>7754444
>no warosu
I'm not always around but I saved a few of the threads.
That pics not a good edit, but saved anyway. Not like anyone clicks thumbnails.
>>7754376
>>7754399
>>7754402
It was Wolfe making shady deals. SAN is an autobiographical confession. Man, those conspiracy kooks were right after all.
>>7754470
Proof at last!!!!
>>7754455
>Not like anyone clicks thumbnails.
I-I click thumbnails.
>>7754495
Well if you were in the one thread from a bit ago, you'll click this one, which I fixed around the hood.
>>7754470
Sometimes I despair at Wolfe's shitposting fans, but there are at least three on /lit/ that are talented and humorous (other than Aramini). You are one of them.
>>7754390
There*
>>7754390
>>7754536
>>>r/books
>>7754315
Yeah Connor, me and you both.
It's too subtle while being too pulpy at the same moment.
>>7754520
Wolfe shitposting tier list
Marc Aramini
Connor
Pinky Ivan
Hack Soul
>>7754655
Well there are 16 separate IPs in this thread, kind of a burden to fully sift the posters.
>>7754673
This is known through Goodreads desu
>>7754127
'The Island of Dr. Death and Other Stories and Other Stories'. I especially liked the titular story and 'Tracking Song'.
>best translations
>outdated and wonky translations everywhere
Yup, I'm outta here.
>>7754682
Eh? Where
Also, where can I join the sekrit club?
>>7754711
Just add people on Goodreads. They (we) read the most wolfe.
>>7754536
I am saying 2666 is basically genre, with "working" witchcraft and a murderous spirit influencing everything, as that one sensitive guy realizes when he starts diagramming ancient obscure things and as the old psychic lady on TV reacts in horror. It is clear Bolano was influenced by Twin peaks, and he comes out and references it in the book itself.
>>7754753
I should probably watch Twin Peaks.
Also I never actually noticed the supernatural in it, only the atmosphere of death and impending doom.
>>7754719
Oh, is there anyone in there who can do puns across 13 languages?
>>7754792
Only Dawn
>>7754753
>working witchcraft and a murderous spirit influencing everything
What?
There are no supernatural elements in 2666, the sense of doom and feeling of overarching connection is to generate the allegoricy for the global situation that Bolano is going for.
>>7754816
I remember them being kind of there, the psychic lady was there and she was somehow connectedd to it. Interpretations may vary I guess, but yes, I never noticed any.
>>7754816
It is understated and implied. So all these people just killed everyone, and then, seasonally, stopped? No external influence? Whether it is social pressure or culture, the metaphor bolano uses is occult. That is a genre book.
Lots of irony in those who look down on genre. Hamlet a ghost story, Spenser's faerie queen a standard quest allegory, infinite jest near future sf attack on consumerism and obsession with entertainment, and bolano writing a book about a demonic ancient eldritch evil affecting a huge swathe of the population in a city, psychic lady and all ... but I am not kidding the book even mentions Twin Peaks, in which the demon Bob makes men kill those things they should cherish.
>>7755065
If you check out goodreads almost everyone reads a decent dose of sf
>>7755105
Yes ... but that is goodreads, and most of that is shite. I am just saying the genre distinctions are blurred and arbitrary, with wolfe and lafferty on one side and, as far as colleges are concerned, with pynchon and vonnegut and bolano on the other, though they all muddle with genre conventions, and sometimes not in very original ways.
>>7755143
No I mean people who post their accounts here which makes for around 1/3 of /lit/ population. This site has about 400 posters over the course of 2 weeks.
And yes, division of books to genre and literary is completely arbitrary and basically comes down to "I don't like this fantasy novel but my critique is trash so I'll just call it genre fiction"
>>7755214
Right. Ironically my least favorite defense of a writer (say, henry miller for example) is when someone says "you just don't get him." Oh, but I do. However, this is what I frequently feel about criticisms against Wolfe - they arise from an inability to perceive what he is doing. With Wolfe, of course, that is nothing to be ashamed of, but people should be able to recognize that there is actually something there they aren't getting.
>>7755214
By 2040, the generation who watched LOTR and SW 1-6 will be leading much of the flock in colleges. Wolfe fans would be about 2% of them. Give it time.
>>7755233
It's also pretty hard to convey some of his ideas. A friend of mine hated it (but his taste is shit in general though) and explaining all the intricacies of the plot on the spot is difficult.
>>7755249
That's usually a fault of the communicator. Wolfe's style can be explained in 4 sentences. Learn to explain better.
>>7755247
I don't think it'll happen. Or at least hope it won't. But its already like that but with feminism so yeah I guess this should be the one good thing.
>>7755268
Not style. The plot and how it thematically plays out, but in detail. It's been some time since I read it.
THEN WHO WAS GREEN MAN
>>7754655
And me!!
Did every Wolfe fan on /lit/ just suddenly die?
>>7756521
Maybe?
Anyways, Marc, what are your thoughts on Triskele? He's always been sort of an enigma to me. The best theory I have come with is that he acts as a sort of "totem" for Severian, appearing to Severian every time he isresurrectedto give him some type of grounding consistent sense of continuity in his memory. In other words, Triskele acts as a stabilizing force for the otherwise oblivious Severian, forcing Severian to conclude that he neverdiesand thus hisresurrectionsare merely gaps of lost time which Severian doesn't realize are missing. Your input is much appreciated. Thanks.
>>7756567
Triskele is a link to a humanity severian is in danger of "forgetting". When sev relates the zen koan of the autarch who does not leave his place from under the tree for a woman or for sages or wealth, but follows a dog, he lives this in finding his future bride, valeria, by following Triskele. Triskele is dead when sev first sees him, "the smallest of those dead", and this pity awakens his power before he ever had the claw. It is respect for a lower life that serves as a psychopomp not to the land of the dead but to the world of renewed life. A personal symbol, too. Also, a triskele was a tripod used in the worship of gods, and this reverence for man and the sun is reflected in his affection for Severian, for the aquastor of malrubius uses triskele to teach sev about reverence and love for a higher power.
Marc did you name your book Between Light and Shadow due to The Twilight Zone?
So is BTNS supposed to be like the fantasy equivalent of Dune? Is it worth reading?
>>7758517
They have almost nothing in common, it's technically sf and it's worth the read.
>>7758533
Ah ok. I was just guessing based on the artwork. Looked very dune-esque
>>7758670
Artwork is rarely representative of Wolfe.
It's very surreal and everyone has a different mental image
>>7758517
Comparing New Sun and Dune are strangely infrequent. Of course Wolfe was thinking about Dune, the first sci fi novel thought of as legitimate literature, while writing New Sun. I would go further and argue that the underlying plot, or rather the reason each story occurs in their respective fictional universes, it the same.
Paul in Dune is the final generation of a natural genetic engineering program that has been going on for thousands of years. The Bene Gesserit have been breeding people in order to bring about a messiah. Though this program fails, one of Paul's children is the Kwisatz Haderach, who lives for thousands of years as the emperor of the universe.
New Sun is almost exactly the same.Severian travels back in time, in order to shape his own life differently. He changes things so that he can become the Autarch that the aliens want, one that will bring about the New Sun. The Heirodules want a leader for this new civilization, a new Adam, that will create a world in order to create the thinking machines that evolve into the Heirodules. The story is a play, Severian is following the script written by himself, its all a set up to make him into the New Sun. Thus the backstory of Dune and New Sun is a secret conspiracy to create the messiah.
Both stories deal with religion, evolution, genetic engineering, nature and artifical selection, civilizations so far in the future technology has degraded. Antique futurity. I haven't read it in years, but I can say of the Dune is weaker, its not bad as some might say, but it doesn't truly escape the trappings of sci fi. New Sun is brilliant, it completely transcends sci fi, I would rank it up with Lolita or Bloord Meridian or maybe, maybe, Moby Dick.
>>7758495
I like the description in New sun where he mentions how a torturer stands between the light and his victim, but I also wanted to emphasize that between the platonic ideals and symbols reflected in the shadowy ink of Wolfe's writing, REAL objects cast those shadows, even if most readers cant see them. The second volume will be called Beyond Time and Memory. My original concept art for the cover was a wolf shaped hill with a cross on it and a sun behind it, casting a shadow of severian with sword upraised on the ground.
>>7759123
Both also have a kind of contradictory attitude toward their paragon ... Stilgar almost seems justified, somehow, in turning against Paul, and Severian's new world is for the green man rather than the old strains of humanity. (The hieros are not necessarily mechanical, nor are the hierogrammates, but the the third hand creation, the hierodules, are.) While comparisons are fruitful, Wolfe claims dune had little influence on him. I wonder if jodorowski's Dune would have been great ...
Hey Marc this is Charles, that's my poorly written comparison of Dune and New Sun.
>>7759471
This is basically the premise of an essay I'm working on. I'm only comfortable sharing it here because this thread with evaporate. I want to explore what the phrase "the shadow of the torturer" actually means. You touch on it here. The shadow cast by an object is the symbol of the object. Just like the shadows cast on the cave wall. The greatest torturer is God, he cast us into this world of suffering. My assumption is that God's shadow is evolution. God is obviously represented by the Sun, which ultimately is the source of all life and energy on Earth. Further symbolism of plants reaching up towards the Sun, growing in least path of resistance (which could describe Severian's journey) is as accurate description of evolution as anything!
>>7759489
I read Dune when I was a teenager, and didn't get past the second book. I just assume that the Fremen are abandoned after their Jihad.
I just assumed Cyriaca's fairy tale is about robots evolving into people. If people can become trees I don't see why robots can't become people.
Dune is the elephant in the room the Wolfe fans never talk about. We should at least acknowledge that Wolfe and Herbert were both writing space messiah stories.
Cronenberg should direct the New Sun movie.
>>7759489
And if Wolfe's kids write more Solar books after he dies, I'll probably pour bleach in my eyes.
>>7760028
Not going to happen. Worse case scenario, Gaiman does, or riffs on it. Shadows of the new sun tribute anthology was a one off and the contributors had a chance to donate their story sale to rosemary's medical care, so that was cool. The few reviews panned my latro story but I thought it was clever. Of course, I would. They butchered my last line, which pissed me off to no end, since I had no idea if I would ever see publication again. But that project of shorts was different than betancourt doing amber and brian herbert butchering Dune (i cant judge first hand though, only read the six frank herbert ones, long long ago.) (My last line was to read: And though it would last long and very long, there was no mercy in it. They chopped it up so it only had a helping verb)
>>7760069
I really dislike Gaiman, though he's an ok writer. I want cooler people to like Wolfe. I would be ok if Patton Oswalt wrote Solar novels!
I'm ashamed I haven't read your Latro story. But to be fair I haven't read the Latro books either. Just remember, haters gonna hate. You were among so many big names, you probably just got drowned out.
>>7760098
I know what you mean. I thought the Mars books were dry but kim stanley robinson and I talked about Wolfe's books for like an hour and I really liked him. Probably as cool as it is going to get for big names.
>>7760114
http://www.nyrsf.com/2013/09/a-story-kim-stanley-robinson.html
He seems like he should be a member of the Wolfe pack. Weird how he isn't on the list. Maybe he reads it.
My problem with the Mars books is how literally every single leftest sort of government is proposed, but nothing right libertarian. Maybe he thought Moon is a Harsh Mistress already covered that. Or maybe its another book where I missed a lot being a teenager.
What cons do you go to/have went to. Though I would love to, I don't see myself having the ability to met Wolfe any time soon.
>>7760155
Not many my events are obviously Wolfe specific so of note was the 2012 fuller award ceremony which was amazing and the 2013 nebulas where Wolfe was awarded grand master. If Vox actually gets me on the hugo short list for related work I will go, though in general I have little respect for the Hugos. However, if I am nominated that would probably change my tune, though a work like mine would never win a mass popularity award like that anyway.
>>7760235
Did you ride the carousel with Gene? Riding on a carousel is such a Gene Wolfe thing to do. Its pretty obvious that Viron is Chicago. And I just assume the technology level (ignoring the robots) is roughly the same as the Chicago world's fair.
If you're nominated I'll vote for you. Thought that would be against my principles, dumb popularity contests aren't my thing.
I'm on the verge of starting Fifth Head of Cerberus. Really, truly looking forward to it. I already read BotNS and loved it a lot.
I'm actually a writer myself, and BotNS was a massive influence on my work. It resulted in a complete change of my writing style, among other things.
>>7760520
Published one?
>>7760781
A few short stories. Nothing major, not yet, though I do have a novel I'm shopping around.
Through Wolfe I discovered Borges, Chesterton, and Kipling, all of whom have influenced my writing in some way or another.
>>7760793
I should probably read Kipling as Wolfe had a great taste
If there is still anyone left in this thread, I have a question.
I'm trying to secure a copy of the Island of Doctor Death ebook for my Kobo.
Problem is, the Kobo store version costs 25$ which is too fucking much for me at the moment.
Amazon store is cheaper, just 8$ but I don't know if it will read on my Kobo or if I have to waste time converting and shit.
Also, there are absolutely no illegal downloads for it.
Wat do? I really want to read this.
>>7761482
Converting is easy af
>>7761492
Yes but I have never actually bought an Amazon ebook since I have a Kobo.
So I don't know if it lets you manually download the file upon purchase or if just updates your device from the cloud, thereby adding the new ebook.
If it's the latter, I would obviously need a Kindle.
>>7761482
You can buy the actual book for that much. Book depository has cheap delivery (basically books cost more for free shipping).
Other than that I don't know because that's how I got it and there's a large Gene Wolfe Collection torrent.
I ordered a cheap used Kobo, hope it works man, it'll allow me to finish all other Wolfe I downloaded as well as Japanese literature and tons of philosophy.
>>7761501
>and there's a large Gene Wolfe Collection torrent.
I'm aware of that, but it doesn't include The Island Of Doctor Death. I checked.
Buying the real thing is not an option, it was never translated in my country so I would have to pay outrageous sums for overseas shipping.
>>7761482
You can download / recover (not directly, but it's saved somewhere) a .MOBI file using the Kindle PC application, then (if your Kobo doesn't read mobi) convert it to .EPUB with no losses whatsoever. You might need to use Calibre and its de-DRM module.
>there are absolutely no illegal downloads for it
I wouldn't be so sure. Then again, there are at least three of these island/death/doctor - is it the story itself you're talking about, or the specific collection with that title?
>>7761512
Hence, the book depository.
It's 25 Euro but free shipping worldwide.
Also how good is your Kobo? I want to know as my shoul arrive within 2 weeks.
>>7761522
The collection.
And the Kobo does read .mobi.
>>7761530
I have a Kobo Touch which is the most basic model (no backlit screen).
It's a little slower to turn pages compared to the newer models but I have 1200 hours on it and it still works perfectly, also reads a lot of formats including epubs and mobis so I never have to convert shit.
>>7761534
I ordered one and I hope it will serve me well. Otherwise reading complete Augustine would be impossible since it's not even translated here.
>>7761546
I was skeptic at first but it drastically increased the amount of books I read. It went from maybe ten a year to over fifty.
I would find myself thinking "it'd be nice to read Plato's Republic" and two minutes later, download it and it's right there on the screen. Out of this world, would never go back now.
>>7761554
Is there a selection of free classics?
>>7761559
Project Gutenberg is a legal site which has a shitload of old ebooks for free, basically anything older than a century is there and even some later stuff.
>>7760098
What's wrong about Gaiman's writing?
>>7761534
>And the Kobo does read .mobi.
Right, then just keep in mind that you can lift the amazon protection in case it limits the file to kindles.
>>7761580
I've read only the American Gods and it's mostly about dull prose and lack of a deep characterisation.
>>7761565
If all the mass of pdfs of Plato, Aristotle and Augustine won't fit well onto the screen, I'll look there.
>>7760018
>>7759489
>>7759123
Interesting, I had a similar feeling about the political and messianic dimension of the relation of Dune and BotNS.
I was doing a Dune read-through on /lit/, but it got archived, even though it was last on page 4. I got 1/5th through, and posted passages roughly twice a day. It was mostly passages I thought were interesting, guided by narrative glosses, and I intended to make more philosophical remarks as I progressed.
Would anyone be interested in a similar BotNS read-through? I'm not the most skilled of hosts, so I'd need topics of discussion to keep the thread relevant.
Trips will be off soon.
>>7761669
Honestly there's too much on my hands to read New Sun again, I'd much rather read Short Sun since I've stalled it anyway.
>>7761675
I read BotNS years ago, but finished Dune only the other day. It has become evident to me that many Wolfe fans have an unclear conception about Wolfe's major work, do I figured it wouldn't hurt to make a thread that would encourage others to revisit BotNS.
>>7761684
In addition to recruiting potential new fans. Wolfe threads lack context for newcomers.
>>7761684
I personally think I have most of it covered and Marc's videos certainly helped. Hence why I am more interested in something new. At least for the moment.
>>7761692
With few responses, I'm likely to acquiesce. I'm a little pressured on the workload as well. It would have just been my attempt to contribute to /lit/.
Ok I give up, I've been searching for this damn Island Of Doctor Death ebook for the past two hourse and there is nothing.
>>7761706
That's disappointing. One would expect his most famous short story collection would be up on torrents considering you can even find A Borrowed Man.
>>7761723
What makes me boiling mad is that even if I wanted to buy it legally, I have to pay 25$ for the SAME FILE that costs 8$ in the US. And this is digital download, not physical, so there's no reason whatsoever for the gap.
Amazon just won't let me download the US one. What is this compartmentalization bullshit.
>>7762143
Can you proxy?
>>7762143
Here you go
http://www30.zippyshare.com/v/VKa5IuSZ/file.html
>>7762331
God will repay you.
Started on Exodus of the Long Sun. What a weird, awesome ride.
Long Sun is every bit as weird as New Sun, but in completely different ways. Much more subtle ways, I think.
What I dont quite get though is the dialogue. It always seems like everyone overexplains things or talks about their thought process (e.g. silk talking to the General about augury for two pages)
>>7762452
Wolfe did say he put effort into making it more accessible
>>7762452
It's written by the protagonist of Short Sun as sort of a Bible.
>>7762331
Original mad anon here
You are amazing. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU.
>>7760839
The Jungle Book and The Second Jungle Book are fantastic. Haven't read The Just So Stories yet.
>>7761580
[original anon] I don't like Gaiman because he's sjw leftist trash cuckold. Though he's not an awful writer.
>>7754127
hows this fucking monsters jaw work? does it shut top down? because if it doesnt the whole design is retarded.
>>7762972
That's funny, I don't like him because he's an awful writer and don't care that he's sjw leftist trash cuckold.
Okay, maybe not awful - but there's very little to be said for his prose works.
>>7763057
Anyone can be friends with someone with different political views.
Reading Long Sun right now, and a thought just occurred to me. Are animalsin the Whorl the same 'animals' on Urth? Are horses the horses we know, or are they the clawed carnivorous Urth horses? Wolfe postulated in one of his Castle of the Otter essays how warhorses would be bred to be more effective in battle in light of technologic decline. But since the Whorl departed in the Age of the Monarch, are all the animals different? I'm not entirely sure on how much time there is between Typhon's rule and Appian's. Wolfe used the idea of New Sun being a translation to substitute animal names for creatures that closely serve the purpose of the name, but aren't exactly the same. But what about Long Sun? Marc?
>>7763705
Whorl horses probably aren't Earth horses, but they also probably aren't Urth horses. The Whorl was set up so the cities wouldn't be able conquer each other. A horse that can run 100 miles an hour wouldn't work out. Oreb is discribed as a bird we don't have on Earth, also there is a talking monkey and such.
>>7763705
I think short sun implies there is about a thousand years between the reign of typhon and severian. (If indeed our autatch is Appian, he has ruled a long, long time according to the chronology of The Cat, unless his test off planet displaced him by years) but only 300 has passed on the whorl itself (probably- maytera's chronometer and number skills are hinted in one scene to have slipped by a factor of ten, but the 300 number appears elsewhere too.) Long sun seems less overtly weird in its animals ...
>>7762987
Barlowe's interpretation of SF monsters in general is dubious at best. Gene Wolfe's dragon is not adequately described to resemble the eccentricity of that art.
>>7763705
Are you implying that Urth horses (destriers) are equids?
>>7754510
I just realized
>visible folds in the fuligin
Wene Golfe
>>7764116
No, I know they're not horses as we know them, but they are the cavalry animal.
>>7766260
They are genetically enhanced horses that are better than our cars. I'd like to have one.
>>7764159
Well, maybe the fuligin cloak is reversible. Unreflective black on the outside, textured cloth on the inside.
>>7767181
Maybe your mother is reversible
>>7767181
I think the fuligin is one of the reasons why a TV/movie adaptation of BOTNS wouldn't work.
The moment the words "the color that is blacker than black" are uttered on screen you have gone full ham.
>>7768452
You can not say it at all and use special effects to make it seem stranger than ordinary black for the same effect.
>>7768460
then you'd have people bitching about muh CGI and muh practical effects.
You can't win.
>>7768477
It would look best if filmed like Sin City or 300.
>>7755233
I normally really like your posting, and I love gene the meme, but jesus christ this post m8
>>7768748
Tbh he's right. Just check out this shit
>>7768920
I don't often say this but god damn this guy is the pleb to end all plebs.
>>7768748
In the australian review of science fiction, bruce gillispie said, "anybody who can see definitely what Gene Wolfe's fiction is all about is a liar or a fool or Gene Wolfe." While it is a kind of cool quote, I find it insulting to wolfe's artistry. Don't project your limitations on the world, Bruce.
>>7768946
That's basically every Wolfe review I've read that is negative, but usually a bit more elaborate.
>>7768998
Honestly Wolfe makes the religious experience of Logos and redemption crystal clear, any reader of experience can see that.
I can't say I know what Cerberus or Wizard Knight are exactly, but his themes are always gnawing at your subconscious, you only need to bring them into your rational mind after finishing it.
>>7768920
did that person skim through the book or read it? both actions yield different experiences.
>>7769013
Fuck if I know, but probably skimmed, judging from how well he understood it.
>>7769012
Unless of course the redemption is a bit ironic ... the most difficult task of his third person work is identifying those areas that are less than sincere. Pirate Freedom is straightforward, but many view it as unironic. Chris the follower of Christ turns into Ignacio, the fire, and through his casuistry and assumptions about God damns himself, never reaching sincere repentance. There are enough disturbing hints in New Sun, with its ominous water powers submerged offscreen, to at least suspect that the ending is very far from actually redemptive ...
>>7769035
I was primarily referring to Severian and I believe Wolfe stated it himself, his change is the point of the novel. Underwater beings were wiped with the coming of the New Sun so I'm unsure what you mean here. And I haven't read Pirate Freedom. And yes, Wolfe is much more apt as a first person writer than a chronicler he tried to be in the Long Sun.
>>7769050
I am still ignorant about how to make the spoiler sections let me try. Spoilers here to end.
The world becomes a world the sea powers would want: covered and without humans. The sharp teeth and the mad cackle of the green man is similarly suspicious for a being which lives off of the sun, and must humanity truly perish to promulgate God's or the Increate's plans when His sacrifice was made for redemption? Despite the "previous iteration" stuff which comes up in the James Jordan interview, the presence of missionaries Robert and Marie in the jungle hut and the claim that the giant Nod is coming to the wrong cycle of creation when he expects Adam and Eve and is too late in eschatology and genesis, as well as the pic of armstrong - all set the text in our future, after the incarnation. That redemption of humanity is further complicated in Long Sun, when the satan figure typhon actually preserves humans.
Well that failed sorry let me research these spoiler spaces.
>>7769093
Plusgreen sure seems like hell for humans, and I am certain it is what Ushas will become when the floods recede, for the rajan of goan travels through time, not simply space
>>7769086
>I am still ignorant about how to make the spoiler sections let me try. Spoilers here to end.
Start using the phone app, much better than usual internet site, called Clover.
>The world becomes a world the sea powers would want: covered and without humans.
I don't think we can say it's without humans as we know there's some at the end. Also didn't they fear the New Sun because it would kill them all?
>The sharp teeth and the mad cackle of the green man is similarly suspicious for a being which lives off of the sun, and must humanity truly perish to promulgate God's or the Increate's plans when His sacrifice was made for redemption?
I'm convinced that this isn't the same world as ours even if it shares similarities.Wolfe has some serious heresy problems or he fucked up with the references or it's a dimension beneath ours which I think since there was an entire now gone existence. Also ontology of Wizard Knight is how New Sun may work, with greater and lesser worlds
>Despite the "previous iteration" stuff which comes up in the James Jordan interview, the presence of missionaries Robert and Marie in the jungle hut and the claim that the giant Nod is coming to the wrong cycle of creation when he expects Adam and Eve and is too late in eschatology and genesis, as well as the pic of armstrong - all set the text in our future, after the incarnation.
Yeah, I mean I need a reread as I've forgotten many of such details since my read and desu it's hard to argue with the top Wolfe scholar.
>That redemption of humanity is further complicated in Long Sun, when the satan figure typhon actually preserves humans.
He preserves it as a parody of the world as a demiurge and shows how imperfect humans and their plans are to the plan of God. He's also quite obscured in there so his true purpose is obscure and I still haven't read the Short Sun so maybe I'm wrong. Let's just say that I rationalize my explanation as the only way for Wolfe to stay consistent with what I see as the real message behind the story, so personal redemption and presence of Logos
>>7769050
And even Silk's enlightenment might have a physical causethe realization of which prompts his suicidal thoughts, recognizing that Typhon and Kypris have set him up to be the heir to the whorl and beyond - for while Crane's explanation seems stupid, it is odd for Wolfe to give us an event without at least two explanations - either a hidden spiritual or physical dimension, and in this case he opted to conceal the physical origin of the enlightenment, with its male and female voices of father and mother prerecorded in the special embryo's brain ... though that does not mean it isn't spiritual at the end and serbing the Outsider, but fixating on its physical implications and the indiscretions of Hyacinth push Silk to self-extermination
>>7769121
Dont read that first succesful spoiler section it is for short sun!!!!!!!!! I guess it wont matter though because 99 percent disagree with me, not the end of the world.
>>7769147
Marc please stop destroying all my understanding of Wolfe.He converted me fully to Catholicism
Now while that makes sense, it also doesn't since in context of who Wolfe says to be and the detail and devotion he shows in the passages where he describes the meeting with the Outsider is just about as good as the ones of actual saints.
And as far as a cause for an apparition, there doesn't really need to be one, and I assume he knows at least something about real life apparitions.
>>7769156
Too late. But I honestly never gave a fuck about spoilers, especially for an author that's supposed to be reread anyway.
Also, while my expertise on the short stories is probably second to none, as I had to read some of them ten times in a row and practically memorized them as well as doing the secondary reading for allusions, New Sun, Wizard Knight, evil guest, castleview, and there are doors, land across, and borrowed man have not benefited from that kind of obsession and while I have a holistic understanding of how Wolfe works, it is conceivable anyone could engage in meaningful and successful discussion about themes and plot particulars I had not considered in those books.
>>7769168
Even typhon serves God anyway. Your faith is safe, silk was wrong to doubt his enlightenment even if it was through typhon.
>>7769184
Even the fallen love of Hyacinth can be subsumed into the love of the Outsider. The Outsider used the tools Typhon constructed.
>>7769184
Have you considered Typhon wanted him to think he caused the enlightenment? You probably have, but it sounds plausible from how you described it.
>>7769182
It's your life's work, I understand and that's fine, but the vanity is going a bit too far.
>>7769195
Is it really fallen love? I didn't really get those vibes since Silk wasn't an actual priest, he was one of the false faith he renounced anyway.
>>7769201
Hyacinth certainly prevents Silk from leaving the gnostic closed system when she refuses his forgiveness. The vow of chastity is not the false part ... hyacinth as a whole is.
>>7769201
Sorry about the vanity, it is part of my writing style and to be honest I meant that post to be uncharacteristically self deprecating - i cant pull off humility without sounding more like an ass.
>>7769218
I guess I'll get to that in the Short Sun. Honestly Long Sun dragged so much towards the end I basically skimmed though most of it.
I also liked the smaller scale a lot more than the political space opera it became later on.
>>7769228
Short sun is more fun to read than long sun but more confusing. Circa 2002-3 , the arguments about short sun on the list were some real gems ... about a year of that is lost to the archives as well. Such vitriol ....wow!
>>7769225
I just think your point will come off better if you just argued for it instead of saying how you are the best in the field, which may be true, but you aren't your own argument from authority. >>7769242
I'm waiting my ereader to finish it, I'm 40 pages in Blue and Green (by mistake but if I hadn't double checked I would haven't even noticed it's the second one, I just assumed nothing making sense is the regular Wolfe at that point).
Long Sun may have been a drag because reading on the phone is hell, especially for a 1300 page novel.
And yes, from what I've read Short Sun is more interesting, if anything because of first person narrator.
>>7769147I've always assumed Silk'ssuicidal tendencies is clone programming. When Typhon is ready for his body, Silk will give it up gleefully. The enlightenment just set off his programming, Silk starts doing random "brave" things right away. His bravery is merely him not caring if he lives or dies. And in the end he does kill himself.
I interpret "Though trodden beneath..." as Silk finally admitting he made mistakes and never reached his potential.
>>7769225
This board is all about using literature to be patrician. You're close enough to being ubermensch, be as arrogant as you want to be.
>>7769368
So in the end he rejects Typhon because of the enlightenment or?
>>7769242
I'm in the minority, I guess, that really really like Long Sun. Just how down to earth it was, basically Chicago in space. All the characters are so fully realized, even the minor characters. Even people that show up for a page have a unique voice.
New and Short Sun are written as mythology, weird twisting poetic language. While Long Sun reads like something by someone that lived through the Russian revolution.
>>7769394
Wolfe overdid the amount of dialogue and hid the subtext too deep.
aramimi-senpai, are you a Sad/Rabid Puppy by any chance?
I only ask out of curiosity because you mentioned knowing Vox Day and not liking the Hugos. I wonder where the Wolfemeister would stand on this whole issue.
>>7768452
You can, but it would have to be released in either China, Korea, Japan, France, Poland, or Czechoslovakia. They don't have a modern aversion to poetry or culture like most of the West does.
>>7769380He is admitting that he got Horn killed, by staying on the Whorl, he only stayed because of Hyacinth. Hyacinth was just an agent of the Trivigunte, and his love for her probably was just Kypris possessing him. He did see the holy hues when he entered her room.
>>7769407
Or Australia. Maybe a couple of other places, but those would be the most open, with the allottable budget.
>>7769403
Yea there is too much dialogue. I recently listened to the audio book, and before that I never realized how well the sentences and dialogue flowed. In that, Long and Short Sun are the Iliad and the Odyssey, Long would make a really good play, in the style of the old Greek plays. Including masks when characters are possessed or take on other identities. Or this could just be me projecting my ideas about New Sun onto Long.
>>7769405
Wolfe probably doesn't care he already got all the relevant sf literary awards.
>>7769427
Don't worry. He does and he doesn't
>>7769405
Nobody with any taste likes the Hugos anymore, please stop associating that with those whiny faggots
>>7769437
I was under the impression that Three Body Problem, last year's winner, was actually a decent novel.
>>7769437
I've read a bit of the Catholic fedora man's blog and it's better than I expected and I expected absolute trash
>>7769379
At 5'8" with a weedy voice, and a knack for conclusions as strange as Borski's (though with better logical chaining), I think not
>>7769427
>Czechoslovakia
Shit. Guess I'm showing my age. Well, you know what I mean. God bless those artsy fartsy Czechs.
>>7769450
No, you are showing you are American, Bill
>>7769442
It is, and it actually deserved the Hugo's former prestige (unlike a certain blend of Banks and LeGuin, or a Mary Sue fantasy), but now the Hugo is basically an auction where anyone can get a Hugo if they throw enough money at the voting process. In a post-constitutional era, the idiots who designed the Hugo voting process left a mechanism allowing this to happen. So bad.
>>7769442
Exceptions there are, ranging from decent to good, but as a whole the event is irrelevant from a literary perspective. Given the process and attending crowd it is absolutely no surprise that they equally happy to reward trash.
Who is Wolfe ?
>>7769450
No! I'm Afghan (Pashtun). I just defaulted to typing in the old mode.
>>7769468
>unlike a certain blend of Banks and LeGuin, or a Mary Sue fantasy
Or the wanky Star Trek tribute, Harry Potter, or anything by Gaiman...
>>7769479
He's the best writer of science fiction and fantasy you can find. He is reminiscent of Borges, Chesterton, Proust, Vance and Leiber.
>>7769468
>unlike a certain blend of Banks and LeGuin, or a Mary Sue fantasy
I don't get the reference. Maybe that Ancillary something novel I haven't even bothered to read? That one seemed to get a lot of puppies mad.
>>7769527
Probably something very progressive. It was 2015 after all.
>>7769527
Yes. Ancillary Justice. It's not a bad novel by any means, but it didn't deserve the Hugo, misled as the critics were. It will age as poorly as Starship Rising has.
>>7769526
This is a terrible endorsement. It will most certainly alienate people who don't resonate with that list, as well as set up readers for disappointment, if they aren't attuned to understand Wolfe's literary techniques.
>>7769557
The list consists of really great authors and not getting him is not the problem of the endorsement. And considering how some of them are very subtle and surreal, you really know what to expect.
>>7769582
But some of those authors works on several levels, and people who don't read subtext may still enjoy them. Wolfe uses subtext in a degree much higher than them, hence people who enjoy those writers are not guaranteed to enjoy Wolfe.
>>7769597
You do a selling of Wolfe then
>>7769604
If you need others to spoonfeed you then Wolfe was never for you in the first place.
>>7769588
The awards went stale somewhere after the big three went out of their prime. Awards would go to novelists, not based on their merit, creativity, or eventual impact on the genre, but for previous merits. Hell, Clarke's Fountains of Paradise won over Disch's novel--and that Disch novel happens to be one of the few sf sf novels that even that fucking Vogon, Harold Bloom, concedes is extremely worthy and underappreciated. And Wolfe, too, was overshadowed by Cherryh and Brin, for those respective years.
>>7769604
>selling
I'd respond to you, but I don't convene with people corrupted by mercantilism. One does not sell an author's worthiness, even figuratively. If you had actually read Wolfe with a clear mind you would have known that.
>>7769448
All put downs are fair game except comparing me to Borski.
>>7769405
Even sinners love those who love them; I am on Vox's rabid puppy slate for related work, but politics are less than tertiary to my concerns -promoting Wolfe.
>>7769438
From the 6 month sales of my book, not halfway to covering a plumber fixing a sink, you are quite correct. 30 minutes of plumber >>3 years of writing.
What was the point of the chapter with Spider talking to Remora and Mint? It didnt seem relevant at all, and couldnt understand all the slang
>>7769917
Okay that's sort of depressing. Then again, you don't need the sales, and it was for intellectual fulfillment anyhow. At least you layered the numbers, so that the lesser hounds can't snap on you directly.
Are you working on producing any fiction of your own, after the completion of the second Wolfe crit volume? Other than the entry in the Wolfe tribute book.
>>7769931
I will take a look at it soon and get back to you, if not in this thread, in another.
>>7769937
You are right. Sales are secondary to me, though they wouldn't hurt my feelings. I think Clute not bothering to update on the encyclopedia of sf page for Wolfe after acknowledging receipt of it, updating the page twice since then and listing just about every other secondary source, was the most hurtful part.
Yes, someday i would like to continue writing fiction. My early work is way too narcissistic - the most conceited characters in the galaxy, though I think the subtext was always clever. I will try to purge that vanity, but don't expect to have many tall main characters, regardless ... I will consider selling out to make the text of my fiction readable. I don't ever expect to be a popular author, however.
>>7769974
I think Clute, or the other editors, may be waiting for the second part, or are waiting on confirmation on the text's validity, to move forward. If not the case, they're idiots.
>>7769939
Awesome, thanks. The biggest (and weirdest) problem I'm having with Long Sun is that it seems much of the dialogue is inconsequential "small talk". I'm guessing Spider's chapter might have been about the espionage going on between the cities, but I didnt really get a sense of it while I was actually reading it.
So uh, guys.
The only Wolfe I have read is BOTNS (including Urth Of The New Sun) and the Fifth Head Of Cerberus (the three short stories set in the French planet colonies)
From what I read here Long and Short Sun both sound amazing but what should I expect? Are they wildly different or is it the same Wolfe?
Keep in mind I'm not sure I even got 10% of BOTNS and all that different timelines/multiple Severians/alien stuff makes my head spin, but I still liked it very much.
Favorite part was the story telling contest at the soldiers camp, with Loyal To The Group Of Seventeen and the Viking guy. Great fucking stuff.
Sorry for bothering.
>>7770023
Long sun is a very different "third" person style ... don't expect the surface actiom or immediate weirdness, but there is still a ton of subtext. Short sun is amazing - identity games, action, plot twists, catharsis, mysterious aliens. The last two, because of Silk, feel slightly more preachy than New Sun, but are just as complex.
>>7770054
I see.
Should I read the short stories collections first? I have The Island Of Doctor Death and The Best Of Gene Wolfe.
>>7770115
Sure especially that one is awesome. My second favorite is endangered species
>>7770115
Lots of overlap between island of doctor death and best of, both great though
