![borges[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/CpQztmB.jpg "borges[1].jpg")
"Democracy is an abuse of statistics"
Was he right?
>>7710392
I dont know what he means but it sounds promising
I don't believe he wrote that. Not enough name dropping for that to be the Spanish Murakami.
>>7710397
"For a long time I believed in democracy. Now I don’t believe in it; at least not in my own country. Perhaps in other countries democracy can be justified; but in the Republic of Argentina I don’t think we can trust it . . . Democracy [is] an abuse of statistics . . . No one supposes that a majority of people can have valid opinions about literature or about mathematics, but it is believed that everyone can have valid opinions about politics, which is more delicate than the other disciplines . . . Yes, it seems that to destroy liberty is bad. But liberty lends itself to so many abuses. There are certain liberties which constitute a form of impertinence."
The only truly viable system of government is a socialist dictatorship of the proletariat.
>>7710404
That is perfectly correct
Imagine a country full of empty-headed egotists who are all equally entitled to decide how the country should be run
You get Trump vs Hillary
>>7710415
Or an absolute monarch that rules by divine right.
>>7710441
That is a socialist dictatorship
Divine Right is a tool to make people swallow their pride and follow. The disease of democracy is when you know have right to vote by law you become too lazy to educate yourself.
This is why there should be an entrance exam for the voting right. How much more carefully would people vote if they had to actually know politics of the candidates.
>>7710392
Argentina was insanely corrupt, he was fired from his job at the library for supporting the liberal party so I imagine that would embitter anyone.
>>7710646
>blind librarian
Oh ya, always passing the blame.
>>7710666
He knew the person ordered to fire him and the orders came from on high, not from within the library. He also wasn't blind at that point.
we'll be fine
>>7710679
Well be fine
>>7710404
He's correct.
In every other avenue you don't expect anyone with no education or experience in the subject to have valid opinions about it. But in democracy, suddenly everyone's opinion on who are the right representatives is equally valid. The system is horrible and the only reason it works is that it's decent at setting checks and balances against abuse of power.
The leaders should be directly accountable to the people but the masses should have nothing to do with electing them.
>>7710682
My well is fine.
which is why it's good that america isn't a democracy but a republic with a decent constitution.
>>7710689
my what a fine well
>>7710691
Yea it's such a well-to-do well.
>>7710436
>implying there's anything wrong with Trump
>>7710698
As a reality tv host? No.
>>7710698
his rhetoric for one
>>7710723
Well I'm convinced.
>>7710733
that's all well and good m8, now let's make america great again
>>7710441
Charles II
>>7710723
>How about the man with the beautiful red hat? Stand up! Stand up! What a hat!
Sounds like some brilliant rhetoric to me.
>>7710646
>was
alto jej
t. argie
>>7710685
I was thinking the other day if a system like the Church would work, where politicians were free to enter and leave but would have to renounce certain (like property and inheritance) in exchange. I guess it would probably face many of the same issues as the Church though.
>>7710392
Completely disregard Borges when it comes to literally everything but literature
He was a fedora fag
>>7711444
I don't see what's wrong with his statement here.
Democracy will always, without fail, become an oligarchy ruled by the most persuasive or those with the funds to be
>>7711466
He is missing the point of what democracy is supposed to be
He speaks like most of the upper and middle class (he was not rich, but came from good families) of the first half of the XX century in Argentina, which was against democracy because they went from being ruling class (1880-1916) to be left out with the first Democratic government. The first Democratic president of Argentina was extremely popular among the people. He was therefore extremely powerful and had no need to include people with different views into his party. Which caused a split in it later ( antipersonalistas). After three presidencies the Democratic system was ended by military coup. There was no stable democracy then until Peron, who was too a very strong politician and arguably a dictator. Thus "democracy" was for the upper classes the loss of civil rights. No one trusted democracy in Argentina during those years
Even tho Borges at first supported the Radical party (which was populated by all kinds of people from different backgrounds) he probably lost hope in his country. He furiously masturbated to the US and the UK, but failed to see how Argentina could once become a stable democracy too. But the upper class was too hungry for power
>>7711496
How did your whole post not just makes his case stronger?
>>7711510
Because the military junta governments were shit kek
What I'm trying to say is that he was blindfolded (no srs) and didn't realize that a democratic government was possible, but he fell for the military coup meme
Democracy is only interested in pleasing the majority, thus its faulty
We elect politicians to do our politics, so we don't have to be politicians.
other than who is elected, the masses don't have a lot of say in actual politics, beyond the influence of votes, which is a good thing, all things considered. It reduces the chance of an insular, bad government. If people voted in parliament, that would be a valid criticism.
Perhaps cynical, but one elected politician is the same as another.
>>7711440
>if a system like the Church would work, where politicians were free to enter and leave but would have to renounce certain (like property and inheritance) in exchange
no it would not because it would not attract competent administrators
you need to incentivize politics in such a way that the most gifted people get into it, while at the same time making corruption and self-servingness exceedingly difficult and high risk
again check how singapore handles it
Disgusting.
This new wave of anti-democratic and anti-capitalist rhetoric is really pathetic down to the bone.
What really gets to me is the filthy childish naive nerve these people have.
Objectively at this moment, all other combinations of systems produces absolute horseshit.
Democratic Capitalism produced highest level of political and economic freedom people ever had, highest technology, highest social balance and safety.
I think these people have 0 knowledge of history, they don't realize what a pile of shit everything was.
People like to romanticize the past but holy shit, if they lived just 5 seconds anywhere in pre-1900 they would kill themselves, they are countless of subtle, invisible things they enjoy today that would shook them once it was missing.
Western 1st world countries literally crying about their freedom, social justice and whatnot.
There is a difference.
We should always strive for better lives, more rights and balance.
That's one thing, saying democracy and capitalism "failed" is another, an idiotic one.
Why this happens?
Because these people LIVE in a democracy.
And no matter if it's a political system, a culture, a lifestyle etc, the people who dwell in that 'realm' have infinite things to say, because they have so much more information about them.
Which creates an illusion that, the state you're living in, is one of the worst states to be in.
Try living in a communist country and everything that comes with it.
>>7711936
>This new wave of anti-democratic and anti-capitalist rhetoric is really pathetic down to the bone.
>implying capitalism is tied to democracy
>implying capitalism with so called asian values isnt capitalism without democracy
I am for democracy, but I don't believe that it implies capitalism. Anyway, modern capitalism puts the interests of those with money before the rest.
>>7711936
Freedom is anarchy and safety is cowardice. Technology is thanks to the ideology of science.
>>7711946
>>implying capitalism is tied to democracy
This is exactly the reason why 99% of people always think they're right.
I'm truly not being negative here, nor do I disagree with you.
In you're case you're not wrong.
But you started on the wrong premise.
That is you assumed I implied that democracy is tied to capitalism.
No where I say or imply.
The implication is something your understanding created.
Why I put them together in that post?
Because this new wave involves 1st world western countries in which they are all capitalist and democratic.
Again, this is why all kinds of people assume they are right, because in their mind they IMPLY what suits them.
To recap, your implication is wrong and used it as an example of how most people create strawmen to battle, rather than fighting the actual opponent.
> Anyway, modern capitalism puts the interests of those with money before the rest.
You act like this is unique to capitalism.
Whether it is money or power or anything else, the interest of a system is always "sided" with the ones that have those advantages.
Again, people who live in a state are more likely to judge the state out of proportion and context.
>>7711958
I don't usually say this but you're either too young or have close to zero understanding of politics, ideologies, science or anything for that matter.
Technology flourished in capitalist democracies the most.
>Freedom is anarchy and safety is cowardice.
I really hope you're just young and naive.
>>7711983
>You act like this is unique to capitalism
I don't care about other systems in which I do not live tho
I want a system where the power that stems from the people is used to help the people, and not a few. I don't want a system that benefits a few with the excuse that some collateral benefit will probably hit the people
>>7710436
I'll take "what happens in a country who values adherence to religious credo as the only absolute necessary quality for a head of state", Jerry, thank you!
>>7711936
My good sir.corporativism all day, erry day.
>>7711991
Oh, you're right then, I was wrong.
Apologies.
stfu junta supporter
>>7711850
Does Singapore handle it well? I've heard both sides but I'd be more inclined to believe the neoreactionaries.
>>7711444
>democracy
>not fedora: the political ideology
Disgusting.
This new wave of anti-aristocratic and anti-feudal rhetoric is really pathetic down to the bone.
What really gets to me is the filthy childish naive nerve these people have.
Objectively at this moment, all other combinations of systems produces absolute horseshit.
Feudalism produced highest level of political and economic freedom people ever had, highest technology, highest social balance and safety.
I think these people have 0 knowledge of history, they don't realize what a pile of shit everything was.
People like to romanticize the past but holy shit, if they lived just 5 seconds anywhere in pre-1000 they would kill themselves, they are countless of subtle, invisible things they enjoy today that would shook them once it was missing.
Christendom literally crying about their freedom, social justice and whatnot.
There is a difference.
We should always strive for better lives, more rights and balance.
That's one thing, saying aristocracy and feudalism "failed" is another, an idiotic one.
Why this happens?
Because these people LIVE in a feudal system
And no matter if it's a political system, a culture, a lifestyle etc, the people who dwell in that 'realm' have infinite things to say, because they have so much more information about them.
Which creates an illusion that, the state you're living in, is one of the worst states to be in.
Try living in a tribal country and everything that comes with it.
>>7712098
Enlightened absolutism was the fedoraest
>>7712114
Sincerely laughed.
It's a good counter argument, even in that form.
Although, feudalism and aristocracy indeed produced all those things compared to the previous socioeconomic political states.
>>7712114
Funny that you actually agree with the one you're quoting.
>>7710685
Yes because putting power into the hands of a few idiots rather than a lot of idiots is a great idea!
Seriously, millennia of blood-soaked feudalism, inbred absolutism, corrupt dictatorships, and corporate controlled parliaments should have proven that there needs the be an expansion of democratic control, not less of it.
>>7711936
>economic freedom
>>7712437
Nice cock.
>>7710404
It is for shit like these that he never got the nobel he always wanted.
Not saying he is wrong though
>>7711520
Spoken like someone who hasn't had to deal with peronism.
>he fell for the military coup meme
Two of the three regimes actually attempted to instill a democratic goverment, attempts which were fucked by, you guessed, peronism. The second was particularly ironic, with young left leaning peronists fighting the elected goverment in favor of an aged Peron more right wing than ever, whose goverment willingly lead to the last regime, you know the one that killed thousands of people by the US's recommendation.
This was followed by a new democracy, which in time was lead by a peronist goverment, bringing neoliberalism, which left the country's economy wrecked to this day. Then shit hit the fan and we ended with a twelve year long peronist goverment which harkened back to the old days of social justice (because the guys in the middle were NOT real peronists okay?), until people got so tired of their shit that they actually fucking cared to vote someone else (who peronists can't stop demonizing).
This little resume doesn't actually convey how personally dealing with peronists is like however, which is often infuriating if not downright terrifying. To get a glimpse you can read Borges's "La fiesta del Monstruo".
>>7710436
>implying Bernie isn't going to BTFO Hillary
>>7713892
He's leading in Nevada tho.http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2016/02/18/fox-news-poll-national-presidential-race-february-18-2016/
Meme election here we come.
>>7710723
I seriously don't understand how people can seriously believe in this guy. I guess he's just become a symbol. Nobody wants establishment anymore because establishment has failed. But for many the idea of voting for grandpa Commie/Jew is horrifying. But Trump, he's a red-blooded, reality TV-star, Russian bride-ordering American. He doesn't have to say anything profound, people just want to believe.
>>7714803
>Trump, he's a red-blooded, reality TV-star, Russian bride-ordering American.
exactly
let's make america great again
>>7714803
>He doesn't have to say anything profound, people just want to believe.
Pretty much, people are desperate. "When small men cast long shadows, it's a sure sign the sun is setting."
>>7710646
not only was he fired, he was reassigned by the goverment as "minister of chickens and poultry"
this wasnt a joke, this was an actual job he had because the goverment was that buthurt about him
ITT: kids that never have a real job and live in the real world talking about the politics ideas of a rich kid that became writer and that never knew about life.
Borges was a genius, but he was a little retarded in terms of politics.
>>7713771
The military govrmnts tried to deperonize the country and failed." Democratically" elected presidents like illia and Frondizi had extremely unstable governments because given that in the elections Peronism was forbidden and most people were Peronists the governments lacked legitimacy
I do not endorse Peronism or montoneros. I think that Peron was maybe incompetent and had the luck of taking office during a time in which Argentina was well off and could sustain the stuff he did, like nationalisation of lots of stuff and etc. That ceased at some point, but the propaganda had already captivated great part of the population
On one hand, I think the 55' revolution did something good, preventing Peron from becoming a dictator that would maybe have been in charge of the country for decades. On the other hand it led to instability for 30 years, and maybe Peronism would have died naturally if it wasn't for it.
>>7715773
>rich kid
He wasn't rich, he came from a upper class family but he wasn't well off. He worked.
It is true tho, that he had stupid opinionsopinions regarding politics
>>7712160
That's the joke
>>7710404
Hes 100% correct
Wed probably do better flipping a coin to make decisions on politics and society, I mean even people who spend their lives studying it have ideas that turn out to be disastrous
>>7715800
Why
>>7710415
>not being part of the godlike state run by a perfect philosopher-king
>not living in gracious, everlasting harmony
try again friend
>>7716089
>socialist dictatorship
>perfect philosopher-king
Pick no less than two.
>>7716122
A dictator, even it were a socialist one, is not the same as a philosopher-king, you dingus. Did you even end the Politeia?
>>7716139
>A dictator, even it were a socialist one, is not the same as a philosopher-king, you dingus.
Why not?
>Did you even end the Politeia?
Yes.
>>7710689
looks like an american fake well
>>7710404
The problem is that people in politics aren't really experts on how to be good leaders in the way that English professors are experts on English or mathematicians are experts in mathematics. People in politics are experts on how to gain power.
Democracy sucks but oligarchy is even worse.
>>7711936
>rhetoreec
>and he beleevs it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMTop_vVC_E
Democracy is idiots controlling everyone.
We should have a monarchy. Risky, but worth it.
>>7717531 (You)
>>7710723
The man recognizes a good hat
>>7710723
His rhetoric is great since it's meant to arouse clapping in the average American, not make snooty elitist nod slightly with approval.
>>7719651
>His rhetoric is great because Tennessee inbreds like billy bob and bobby bill love it when he says that mexicans are taking er jerbs
Anyone can give a speech to the rabble
>>7719657
Certainly not, rabble-rousing is an art in itself.
If it was so simple, why aren't other candidates doing it as well as Trump?
>>7719657
His actual ideas are good but his speeches apply to lowbrow people. His ideas for making a better American economic atmosphere and having an isolationist army are great.
>>7711936
>We should always strive for better lives, more rights and balance.
But that's what I'm doing when I say that we deserve better than capitalism and the side effects that it produces.
I'm not gonna argue with you because you have your mind made up, and because you're too busy writing long-winded sentences and repeating slogans to make a point. Freedom is slavery, brah.
