I'm looking for some good books to learn more about economics -- not just "the basics", but some books of actual depth. I'm interested given how economics-oriented this election cycle is. I'm fine with numbers, I'm working on a mathematics/literature double degree -- so really, just throw me anything no matter its knowledge "prerequisites", since I can figure those out myself and move forwards on my own once I know some good starting places.
I mean, anything other than Marx. I've read him. I want more substance.
no I'm not from /pol/
Modern economists are either cultists or dissident cultists. Mainstream economists are basically autistic scientistic retards who think the entire universe is reducible to their gay little formulas, and non-mainstream economists are Marxists in history departments.
With the natural sciences, for example, you may have some critiques of the epistemology of mainstreamers or their dumbass political and philosophical views, but ultimately you can be pretty sure that Lawrence "Complete Retard" Krauss at least knows how to figure out a star's wobble or something. With economists though, it's not the same. There's no Newtonian-Einsteinian mainstream to basically maintain. It's a few different camps with "luminiferous aether"-tier ideas that they defend with inscrutable mathematical rituals and disdain for everyone who even slightly disagrees, and who delude themselves into thinking they have the same mainstreamness as the Newtonian-Einsteinian thing in science because nothing more mainstream-y has presented itself.
Don't listen to economists. They are actual morons.
>>7705475
well given how interested I am in this year's election cycle, what should I read? I'm in a situation where my gut wants to support Trump after called out Bush for 9/11 and the Iraq war, but I feel retarded for it. I just want to get a better bearing before I say I like Trump out loud.
>>7705500
if this isn't bait you are a retard
>>7705463
https://www.bogleheads.org/readbooks.htm
In addition the Financial History section is very interesting.
Bethany McClean's two books on Enron and the Great Recession
Flash Boys was good.
Piketty's Capital seems to be beloved.
Political Power, Political Decay by Fukuyama is also good.
Unfortunately if this >>7705500 if your level of sophistication you may want to start with a highschool history textbook first.
Dr Strangelove's Game, Paul Strathern
It's a history of economists, and brings you from Smith up to game theory.
>Marx
kek, that is some dense shit to say you want more substance.
For something more recent that will probably speak to your prejudices because I don't think that's the only lies you're telling on the internet:
Hedge Fund Market Wizards, Jack D Schwager
If you want more math, just start studying for actuarial exams. Good luck if you're relying on a curve.
I got you, senpaihttps://thepiratebay.se/torrent/6214691/400__Economics_books
>>7705500
anything you read is going to be partisanbut at least dark horse candidates with actual platforms, especially "populist" (i.e. "actually having anything to do with what human voters actually might want") are a smidge better than yet another interchangeable plutocrat cocksucker like obama/romney/their 40,000 clones
A Monetary History of the United States
>>7705897
>anything you read is going to be partisanthe thing is that I know that REAL dark horses on either side of the spectrum, or outside of it, are completely impossible in America or any worthwhile country right now, so I do like the idea of a populist centrist who calls Jeb for the cuck he is
I don't even like politics or economics, I'm an Ivory Tower person who hasn't paid attention to politics since 2012, and even then was just one of those high-school "vote third party" retards. I stopped paying attention because of that and now I'm being a retard for wanting to understand things again after one of the 200000 candidates actually used some powerful rhetoric
>>7705925
anyways
>>7705906
thanks
>>7705879thanks
>>7705674
> Dr Strangelove's Game, Paul Strathern
thanks
> Hedge Fund Market Wizards, Jack D Schwager
thanks
> actuarial exams
sounds fun, I think I'd do well
> dense shit to say you want more substance
Marx doesn't tell me anything valuable about 21st century american economics, cmon don't assume I'm just brushing him aside entirely
>>7705628
>Bethany McClean's two books on Enron and the Great Recession
thanks
> Political Power, Political Decay by Fukuyama is also good.
read some Fukuyama, from what I've read he's rubbed me the wrong way as a bit too idealistic (I'm oversimplifying since I'm not in the mood to type) but thanks I'll read it
> highschool history textbook first
I was oversimplifying why I like him. I'll refine it: he's a republican who isn't a republican, and he's not sanders (!!!!!). And he's not hillary. So he's above the others to me
>>7705959
>I'll refine it
kek I guess my "refinement" still sounds awful
sorry
Thomas Piketty's "Capital in the Twenty-first century" is the big controversial economics book right now.
The problem with economics as a field is this: economists use complicated theoretical mathematical formulas to try and force reality to fit politically-predetermined narratives. This is why mainstream economic models are very poor at *actually* predicting or even describing real economic behavior. There's a bit of an industry-enforced ivory tower thing going on where the people high up in economic education are rewarded for keeping the field of economics completely separate from reality. I suspect this is because if economics was a real profession and people listened to them, there would be significant social change threatening the status quo.
Truly, it is cult-like behavior.
Your alternative to economic theory is economic reality, which can be found mostly in history books. Jefferson Cowie (The Great Exception, Capital Moves, Stayin' Alive) tackles economics in some of his books, and I've heard they're good.
>>7706097
Good post, also note that economists fucking hate economic historians. Wonder why.
>>7706097
OP here, greatly appreciated. Two posters already calling out academic economists as delusional! I'll be honest, I know squat about economics other than my dad constantly telling me that "the market is driven by fear and greed, fear causes crashes and greed bubbles" which obviously is a bit too apothegm for my taste given my actual level of interest.
Anyways thanks to all posters so far. I'm going by the library tomorrow.
>>7705959
>sounds fun, I think I'd do well
kek ~40% pass rate at each level of exams, you have a greater chance at passing the bar in california. especially if you think you have a good chance on even the first exam, because it shows you can't do risk assessment if you think a 60% failure rate bodes well.
>Marx doesn't tell me anything valuable about 21st century american economics
wow now you're really trying to bluff having read him because any good communist will tell you communism doesn't work on paper.
anyway, the two i recommended should be easy to get through, but you might want to check your selfconfidence if you're laying down your own money at any point.
>>7705925
That's why its more fun to follow a foreign country's politics. Britain's is very accessible.
This board has really turned to shit.
Mankiw's textbook is good for microeconomics. Sounds like what you want is macroeconomics, in which case the book you want is by Abel, Bernanke, and Croushore. These are textbooks so they will be rather dry but you'll get good content and nothing too politicized or trying to promote some niche or impractical ideology.
Since you say you're doing this for the presidential cycle I'll save you some time and say that all of the candidates are promoting mixtures of bad and decent policies in line with their own ideology and what they hope will get them the votes.
Take a look at those books, you'll get a good understanding of the fundamentals. Keep in mind that economics as a field is heavily politicized for the purposes of special interest groups and political philosophies. Also note that the assumption that people are rational is false, and the field of behavioral economics that models how irrational people really are is much more interesting than micro or macro.
>>7705475
this guy gets it
>>7706697
you're part of this board senpai. just keep on making good posts and it'll all be fine.
>>7706697
I can't tell if this board turned to shit because I started reading or because it turned to shit.
>>7706697
this board has never been good at economics
it was worse when this board was /leftypol/'s haven
>>7705959
>read some Fukuyama, from what I've read he's rubbed me the wrong way as a bit too idealistic
He repudiated the end of history thing and is quite cynical now.
>>7708038
Poor Fukuyama. Smart guy, didn't understand that he was championing an inherently stupid system.
>>7708042
His new position is that without new blood and adaptive leadership every functional system, especially bureaucracies and legislative bodies, will decay to a shadow of themselves. He calls the US congress a "vetocracy" and points out that even though "getting to denmark" is an ideal, that by no means suggests that denmark is immune from institutional decay. He also loathes neo-conservatism now and feels that internal political and administrative policy is the only thing that can get a country "to denmark"
>>7708053
He wasn't wrong in the End of History, We are living in the age of unchallanged Liberal capitalism (now that communism and facism are no longer a threat), but he understands that Nation states will continue to exist in the meantime to facilitate the system
>>7708091
In his writing he definitely backpedaled.
I personally dont think "the great recession" in Iceland for example is enough to state that End of History is totally wrong, with a possible caveat for large muslim immigration.
Read Hayek's epistemological defense of markets before you read any "economics".
Avoid Macroeconomics and Econometrics. These are pseudo sciences and peddled by quacks.
Avoid Marxian "Political Economists", they are hack Philosophers and sophists.
The best are Turgot, Walras, Schumpeter, and the best of all is Hayek.
Mises and Friedman are okay.. Rothbard is a man who has drowned in his own logic.
The mises institute has a (52 week) home study course u can look up the syllabus to. Tells u what books/chapters to read for each section.
I got about 7 weeks into it over about a week but had to stop coz uni started
>>7706097
>Thomas Piketty
You mean the laughing stock "political economist" who published an ideological rant full of misdirection, fudged numbers, and economic false hoods"
yeah maybe in 2014 it was controversial, but it has been hung, drawn, and quartered since then.
>>7708095
islam doesn't really challenge capitalism, they're still mega consumers, it's just after you wife gets home from blowing your paycheck at the prada store u get to bear her up
>>7708157
>Avoid Macroeconomics and Econometrics. These are pseudo sciences and peddled by quacks.
thank god someone noticed this..."ok this is all unproven unreproducable speculation based on something that happened 50 years in a completely different political and technological landscape, but i'll throw in some algebraic formulas with a bunch of mysterious looking letters to make it seem official to plebs"
>>7708175
>hung, drawn, and quartered
would like to read scholarly rebuttals if you have them on hand.
>>7708171
doing a home study course from the mises institute is like doing a home study course based on the lenin institute, try some shit that isn't soaked in ridiculous ideology
>>7705463
thought I was on /pol/ for a second there
>>7708187
I was more suggesting that Iceland, Canada, Denmark and New Zealand's success is due to either extreme homogeneity not only in race and culture but overarching life goals and values (with some exceptions made for the Maori, who are also hard aggressive conservative people).
I dont think anyone can guess whether these states based on the best of secular humanism can survive a 30-60% muslim population, with its clientelism and mix of the sacred and profane in the public sphere.
Forget it. Economics is a pseudoscience.
Get a textbook. Principles of Economics is solid.
Read Hayek, he has some legitimate critiques of the limits of economic theory, I'd obviously also suggest Kaynes. You should also get familiar with Ricardo's theories, since he's still the basis for a lot of modern theory.
Marx is still the best critique of capitalism as an system you can find.
But as the first poster said, economics is not science as much as philosophy and as sectarian as a student trot organization.
As you can see, we already got Austrians in here:
>>7708171
>>7708171
>>7708196
you should be smart enough to do this on your own?
>>7708157
Hayek was a Fabian socialist and that really explains a lot
>I was personally a pupil of … contemporary, friend and brother-in-law, Friedrich von Wieser. I was attracted by him, I admit, because unlike most of the other members of the Austrian school, he had a good deal of sympathy with a mild Fabian socialism to which I was inclined as a young man. He in fact prided himself that his theory of marginal utility had provided the basis of progressive taxation, which then seemed to me one of the ideals of social justice
These motherfuckers and marginal utility are responsible for the system that exists today that came into existence with the 1913 imposition of the Federal Reserve Act and of the Federal Income Tax
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_Act_of_1913
Classical economics at least in its defence aimed at reducing unproductive rent seeking activities to boost productive activity. Neoclassicalism and austrianism emerged as a pure ideological defence of the leisure class.
OP you're better off reading:
Killing the Host by Michael Hudson
The Theory of the Leisure Class by Thorstein Veblen: http://moglen.law.columbia.edu/LCS/theoryleisureclass.pdf
The Theory of Business Enterprise by Thorstein Veblen: http://www.unilibrary.com/ebooks/Veblen,%20Thorstein%20-%20The%20Theory%20of%20Business%20Enterprise.pdf
Veblen in The Theory of Business Enterprise has a full micro/macro theory explaining reserve capacity, markup pricing, productivity, and aggregate demand. Reserve capacity and markup pricing provide the required foundations for microeconomics; markup pricing is the core of price and profit-wage determination, and reserve capacity is the essence of production and cost theory. Macroeconomics explains the process of the determination of output, employment, and price level as well as economic growth and the business cycle. The contributions of aggregate demand, productivity, and the business cycle offer the structure for that framework. Output and employment as well as economic growth are related to the actual and expected levels of aggregate demand. Price level is explained by aggregating markup prices across all corporations.
>>7708091
Of course the main thing Fukuyama (and everyone else) neglects is China. Either China is inevitably becoming a liberal democracy or it's a standard "totalitarian" state. Most people really are blind to how much China has invested in developing an alternative ideological and political system to the west.
