>tfw too dumb to read Ulysses
I really want to read the entirety of this. When I understand it, its amazing. But every 3rd sentence or so goes over my head and I have to look up the readers guide, which I hate doing.
How do I solve this? I mean what can I read and learn about to help me understand or prepare me for the language and references in Ulysses?
Please don't bully
>>7675456
Read the entirety of the western canon and familiarize yourself with every philosopher from the Pre-Socratics to Wittgenstein
>>7675456
>I want to fight the elite 4 but I only have a level 14 Pikachu and a Zubat I accidentally caught.
>>7675466
Luckily I've taken several philosophy classes and have a basic understanding of all the major philosophers throughout history.
As far as western canon goes, any specific reccomendations?
STOP
TRYING
TO
GET
ALL
REFERENCES
AND
ALLUSIONS
READ IT
AND
ENJOY IT
THERE IS NO LAW SAYING YOU HAVE TO READ IT ONLY ONCE
STOP FALLING FOR LIT MEMES
READ!
>>7675481
Pretty sure he's joking family.
>>7675477
I kekd
>>7675483
but if i get all the references i get an achievement!
right?
>>7675484
Oh. It wasn't very funny
>>7675456
Dog you just gotta read more, and be ok with not getting everything on the first go.
>>7675481
Don't listen to the "read every book ever written before the 20th century" people. They're memers. It would help to read Hamlet, The Odyssey, Dubliners, and A Portrait of The Artist As a Young Man first. Or you could just get the Oxford World's Classics 1922 text. It has annotations in the back explaining nearly every line of the book.
>>7675483
Its not because /lit/. If I understand a particular sentence I get extremely bothered and obsessive over it, to the point where it becomes extremely difficult for me to move on in the book.
Its neurotic
>>7675483
>read it and enjoy
Literally 1% of the people who read Ulysses do so for enjoyment, because the book goes beyond absurdity in its academic tedium. It's a literal chore to thumb through. Most people read it for a perceived academic gratification.
It's like beer: No one actually enjoys beer. People only drink because of its impact on interaction.
There's no shame in occasionally glancing at the readers guide, OP. Also, I'd recommend taking notes as you read.
>>7675507
Le beer is bad meme
>>7675507
Oh look, another pleb who gave up at Proteus.
Ulysses is the most fun I've ever had with a book, fight me faggot.
>>7675507
I absolutely love beer.
>>7675507
>No one actually enjoys beer
You sound like a woman
>>7675507
>I didn't understand it therefore no one else does
Just keep reading my man, and revisit Ulysses in a year or so. If it's still incomprehensible, take another year or so off and keep reading. Eventually you'll be able to get something out of it.
>>7675477
Level up one of your pokemon to above 70, give the rest of your party focus sashes, and teach them all endeavor. Do you even play the game, dweeb?
>>7675535
I thought all beer was shit until I discovered there's a lot more out there than what they sell in supermarkets and convenience stores. Go look for a good sour beer or something.
>>7675507
>No one actually enjoys beer.
Reported for underage. Come back when you're an adult, kid.
>>7675507
*post stating the opposite of yours*
>>7675553
I'm 21. I've never actually tried beer because I've no friends and have never participated in a social event where it was warranted, but I've heard that it's shit.
It smells like shit. I looks like piss. It's probably bad.
Can I get maybe an example of a "difficult" passage? I haven't read any Joyce yet, but I'm very curious about Ulysses
>>7675507
Speak for yourself
I first read it when I was in high school and understood almost none of it and it was a really fun time
>>7675495
For you.
>>7675593
>understood next to none of it
>was a really fun time
You want to know how I can tell tat you're a friendless loser?
>>7675586
Circe is a fucking doozy
>>7675576
As you get older, your tastebuds (or brain) changes and you start to enjoy bitter/different things. Stuff like olives, beer, dark chocolate, certain cheeses and other stuff. I seriously hope you will some day be able to enjoy those things because you are missing out
>>7675608
He probably reads genre fiction.
>>7675535
You have to be 18 years of age to post here
>>7675612
I could probably beat the shit out of you in the street.
I can probably type and read faster than you.
You probably piss on on the periphery of the toilet bowl and only take shits when the shower water's on.
You probably are going to die a virgin.
Come on, kin. Say "probably" to me again and see how many probably I can fling out of my ass.
Don't fucking test me. Those that get on my bad side either die fast or live wishing they were dead.
>>7675638
>>7675638
He definitely reads genre fiction.
>>7675657
I appreciate that you finally grew the balls to make a definitive statement.
You're wrong, but at least you're not a faggot pussy hiding behind ambiguity anymore.
Faggot.
>>7675638
>all those spaces
definitely a pleb
>>7675586
From the first page:
Buck Mulligan peeped an instant under the mirror and then covered
the bowl smartly.
--Back to barracks! he said sternly.
He added in a preacher's tone:
--For this, O dearly beloved, is the genuine Christine: body and soul and
blood and ouns. Slow music, please. Shut your eyes, gents. One moment. A
little trouble about those white corpuscles. Silence, all.
Ulysses difficulty is overstated desu and I'm saying this as a non-native English speaker
It's actually fairly easy if you just read, look up a reference here and there and don't try to squeeze out all you can from every single word. I hope no native speakers spout the "it's so hard!" meme because that'd be sad.
>>7675683
>>7675514
>le proteus was difficult meme
you just need to give heed to the ineluctable modality of the visible, my friend.
Oxen of the sun, on the other hand...
Universally that person's acumen is esteemed very little perceptive concerning whatsoever matters are being held as most profitable by mortals with sapience endowed to be studied who is ignorant of that which the most in doctrine erudite and certainly by reason of that in them high mind's ornament deserving of veneration constantly maintain when by general consent they affirm that other circumstances being equal by no exterior splendour is the prosperity of a nation more efficaciously asserted than by the measure of how far forward may have progressed the tribute of its solicitude for that proliferent continuance which of evils the original if it be absent when fortunately present constitutes the certain sign of omnipollent nature's incorrupted benefaction. For who is there who anything of some significance has apprehended but is conscious that that exterior splendour may be the surface of a downwardtending lutulent reality or on the contrary anyone so is there inilluminated as not to perceive that as no nature's boon can contend against the bounty of increase so it behoves every most just citizen to become the exhortator and admonisher of his semblables and to tremble lest what had in the past been by the nation excellently commenced might be in the future not with similar excellence accomplished if an inverecund habit shall have gradually traduced the honourable by ancestors transmitted customs to that thither of profundity that that one was audacious excessively who would have the hardihood to rise affirming that no more odious offence can for anyone be than to oblivious neglect to consign that evangel simultaneously command and promise which on all mortals with prophecy of abundance or with diminution's menace that exalted of reiteratedly procreating function ever irrevocably enjoined?
>>7675696
Exactly. It doesn't make much sense to me in context either. Hes talking to one guy in a stairwell.
I believe hes mocking a preacher in a joking way. I don't understand why he peeks at the shaving foam under the mirror and says "a little trouble about all those white corpuscles "
>>7675683
Why is this allowed. It's as though Joyce isn't even striving for coherence.
You're not supposed to litter your fucking text with references and allusions out the ass that ultimately serve to remove the reader from the experience every other sentence so they can look up what the fuck you're trying so say.
>>7675683
That one's not even hard. He was making fun of the catholic mass while subtly alluding to satanism by corrupting christ into christine (the black mass supposedly involves using a woman's body as an "altar).
>>7675710
It's a reference to the Eucharist. Where the communion wafer is thought to be transubstantiated into Christ's body and the wine into his blood. He's making a mockery of the whole thing while performing the "ritual" of shaving. Mulligan jokes around a lot but all of his jokes are heretical or have malicious undertones, it tells you a lot about his character once you understand it.
>>7675708
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is there really something to 'understand' here? Do we need to worry about content, and not just read it with pace and hear the cadence of each word?
>>7675778
The main thing to note stylistically about Oxen of The Sun is that Joyce parrots the style of a different writer in every couple of pages or so.
Ulysses is the most masturbatory piece of literature to be recognized in the English canon, by far.
It's disgusting.
>>7675797
I'm gonna say that was Kant in that particular passage
>>7675715
>You're not supposed to
Says who?
>>7675507
I'm drinking beer write now and the other day I just read Circe again and I laughed out loud.
>>7675638
Man I hope for your sake this is pasta.
>>7675806
>masturbatory
Can someone remind me why this is supposed to be a bad thing? 90% of the time it just looks like a justification used by borderline-illiterate retards to rag on things that make them feel dumb.
>>7675456
Irish art, in success, is always some discoursive form of secondary, or 'ad hoc' law. It's personal, without being either permanent or punitive.
The first thing to understand is that the word 'Celtic' won't help you much, unless the text describes some Thracian gladiatorial event.
It would be far wiser to make use of Milesian history in viewing Irish literature. There is something Ionian, something Elegiac about the authors' works. The Ionian philosophers disposed of pagan 'ad hoc' law which has acquired too much strength. In response, each thinker chose their own element (water, air, etc.) as a kind of primary law, and then began a philosophy of these elements as a form of secondary law.
So the philosophers had their own 'avatar' or 'token' element, which they philosophized about. Ulysses is probably Joyce's own token element, and his lineage represents a kind of strict law structure, while Joyce himself is allowed to codify ad hoc laws throughout the book.
>>7675990
more like 99%
unless it's le ebin joke about how theres MASTURBATION in ulysses omg so funny!
>>7676010
What the hell are you even talking about
What does "law" mean in this context
>>7676106
I don't think you'll get this, but Primary law is centred around divine, unitary principles. Or it purports to be.
Secondary law is man-made law in this context. It could include a penal code, or a philosophy, or even a form of art. It might be a form of situational poetry.
What's the best edition to buy?
>>7676016
I was trying to be generous by slightly understating it, but you're not wrong.
>>7676267
Oxford World's Classics. It has extensive notes and supplementary materials in it which works a lot better than having to buy a separate book for them.
>>7676350
You mean this?
>>7675990
because only insecure little fucks read books written specifically to display cleverness on the part of the writer and reader
it annoys the fuck out of everyone else to have pathetic creatures scurrying about smugly and talking unendingly of what they consider their impressive feats
this state of affairs is what masturbatory works allow
>>7676420
you sound dumb
>>7676420
What exactly is wrong with someone displaying cleverness?
>>7676438
er jimmy joyce, it's been a long day
>>7676368
Yes.
>>7676420
No one does that. Ever. You're only projecting your own inferiority complex.
How are they pathetic for producing and enjoying things you don't like? You talking about how pathetic you think they are seems a lot more pathetic than any of them, desu.
>>7676442
I took a look at Amazon and the notes seemed extensive enough --more than 200 pages. Also, it's quite a cheap edition!
Would that suffice for a non native English speaker in order to comprehend it a little or, at least, enjoy the reading?
I don't want to read it translated since it's the kind of literature that loses most of its essence in the process (well, as far as I'm concerned).
>>7676450
look i'm not talking about ulysses fans specifically but you've really never met a person incredibly arrogant about their own intellect?
do you go outside
have you ever felt the sun
>>7676459
The notes explain it pretty well, and your English seems decent enough so you should be able to read it untranslated without losing much.
>>7676461
Joyce was incredibly arrogant, yes, but reducing something like Ulysses to the arrogance behind it is just petty and anti-intellectual. If everyone was afraid of expressing themselves the way they wanted to because no one wanted to be seen as arrogant, then we'd never get anything but simplistic, mediocre garbage.
>>7676506
"i'm not talking about ulysses specifically"
look i'll own up and say i should've clearer that i'm defending the use of masturbatory as a pejorative but in the last comment that i literally am not talking about james joyce's work
like i'm not going to lie i'm never going to read him because it does look like try hard garbage and i've already got a decent backlog of things i'm actually excited about but i haven't read it so i'm not gonna boldly stake out claims i can't back up
either way it's fine to like his books and maybe there's a lot in there i'll just never see but don't act like his fans aren't often annoying try-hards with far more presumption of intelligence than actual intelligence
>>7676528
man this is just embarrassing. literally lmaoing at your life right now
>>7675503
anon's right, Odyssey is kind of must and the Oxford edition is superb and sufficient
>>7675691
Don't know anon. I've heard so many things about it and read a myriad of quotes and it seems pretty rough to me. I'm a non native speaker as well as u and trying to pull off a decent level on this language.
>>7676535
"i'm so not mad that i'm laughing. this is funny."
okay how about you just engage in good faith hun, after all you are smarter than me
![9780192834645-us[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TZfhrMt.jpg "9780192834645-us[1].jpg")
>>7676368
is there any difference between the older one?
>>7675494
Yes
>>7675507
Beer tastes great. Maybe you should try growing up and figuring out what an acquired taste is.
How much better/worse would you consider this book to be in the coherence department, compared to Ulysses?
>>7677146
Piss of qeik
>>7677146
It's a lot easier to read than Ulysses. Certain parts will probably still confuse the shit out of you. Especially the fourth part of the book.
>>7677146
Generally it is more complex and harder to understand than Ulysses, but it's complexity and vagueness seems more deliberate. It does however have its fair share of easy stretches.
>>7677135
I can see why someone would think all beer is terrible if they've only had shit like budweiser or fosters or whatever other cheap shit kids drink gallons of. I prefer whiskey myelf but there is good beer out there.
>>7676528
You're talking shit about others for being pretentious but you're literally jerking yourself off for "not reading 'tryhard' books"
you're exactly what you're talking about you retard
>>7677146
It's a challenge, but it's actually fun to read unlike Ulysses. The resounding silliness of it is enough to get you through, and the shit relating to the war and the V2 rockets is really fascinating.
>>7675456
Try listening to it, then reading it.
https://archive.org/details/Ulysses-Audiobook
Here's a professional cast reading the entire novel.
If you're still stuck, spend a year reading poetry and then come back to it.
>using a reading guide
>>7677232
Ulysses is plenty of fun once you get into it. It's not nearly as dry as memer kids who bitch about how hard it is like to think.
I was actually surprised by how funny it was because I was expecting some sort of dreary old academic tome that no one enjoys.
>>7677232
Total opposite for me. Ulysses is great from the first page. I find Pynchon to be rather grating, especially in this book.
>>7677599
I like them both, but yeah, Ulysses starts out strong whereas Gravity's Rainbow takes a while to really grow on you.
>>7675576
I am legitimately sorry for you
>>7675481
All you really need is Hamlet and Portrait of Artist
I read it without having read odysseus even (the stories of the cyclops, aeolius, etc are basically pop culture; you will be able to spot them easily in the book, or with quick wikipedia readthrough).
And for the more obscure references:
>>7675483
I'm going to read Ulysses again but the edition I have is very uncomfortable. Is it ok to have two editions of Ulysses on your bookshelf, or should I hyde the other?
>>7675477
underrated post
>>7675708
what did he mean by this?
>>7675483
This, glance at annotations every now and then but just enjoy the ride itself.
>>7675576
It's shit. Stay away from it.
I was about to make this thread, OP.
I bought the book today, and I've got to say -- no book in college was ever this difficult to read compared to Ulysses. I read the first couple pages and I have no idea what's going on. I really have to adapt to this -- it's one of the few books I have to keep keen interest in the act of reading; I mean, keeping completely, entirely focused.
>>7677713
Half of the people posting about the book in any Ulysses thread haven't even read it. Read Gifford's Annotated alongside it and you'll be fine.
>>7677722
yes I said yes I did Yes.
