Hey /lit/ I'm trying to explain to my friend what post modern means in terms of literature. Could someone explain it for me?
>>7643577
it means nothing. it's bullshit. just take a shit in your friend's hand and smack him around a bit, and tell him that's post modernism.
and you know what's fucked up? you'd be right.
not even trolling.
>>7643577
weird for the sake of weird.
>>7643581
Quite to the contrary, the postmodern thesis would be that normality and "weirdness" are merely constructed through various modes of discourse, relative to culture, society, etc., and that they are, in and of themselves, meaningless terms.
>>7643602
what is discourse
>>7643604
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse
the image you posted basically explains it.
modernism was the idea that there was an emerging modernity that was the cutting edge and logical next step of what came before it. post-modernism is basically just skepticism towards that idea or a strong rejection of it, taking the form either of like, "there's a bunch of truths but no Truth" (incompleteness) or "everything is worse actually" (le edgy unibomber) or
>>7643607
this is wide as fuck
The basic premise of Postmodernism is that there is no absolute truth, but rather, only an interminable plurality of truths, or in other words, only the infinity of creative possibilities afforded by a reckoning with this fundamental absence of any absolute truth.
read this my guy
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/02/23/saved-from-drowning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0NIs1fOkQg
substitute "post structuralism" for "post modernism"
>>7643577
don't have anything to add personally, but DFW said that besides being after modernism, the mainstay of pomo is the self-consciousness of text (i.e. the authors knowledge that this text would be examined by future generations that may not share the same morality, perspective, etc.)
>>7643604
People talking and shit
>>7643655
highly doubtful.
>>7643661
>self-consciousness of text
and this would result in?
i doubt this accounts for anything. people have always known history and values change.
>>7643672
texts that are self-referential, aware of themselves as texts; this is a newer phenomenon, actually. and that's a very tenuous statement. the minute fraction of the population that were intellectuals may have been somewhat aware of the relativity of values, beliefs, and so on, but a sort of widespread "incredulity toward metanarratives", and a general skepticism--or nihilism, even--regarding one's own inherited views--this is a more recent phenomenon.
>>7643668
You can't construct a philosophy on something that you are not sure of.
>>7643679
this insistence on there being one absolute truth which everyone must then conform to led has led to virtually every instance of inhumanity recorded in human history; genocide, wars, etc., have majorly been a result of these attempts to impose a certain conception of the 'right' and 'good' upon another culture possessing values entirely alien. There is no evidence for absolute truth, and it is a useless concept, so the premise is to proceed as if there is no such thing; whether there is or not is irrelevent.
>>7643689
I think rape is okay. Can I rape people?
Postmodernism isn't about truth or falsehood. Postmodernism is about rejecting the notion that language, ideas, etc. are somehow neutral means of expression.
>>7643696
I am not advocating nihilism; nihilism is something to be overcome; to succumb is to render yourself nonexistent. Belief is necessary, but we must distinguish autonomous, self-produced belief from belief in some external guarantee of meaning and so on.
>>7643696
In the US you'd go to prison. For ISIS jihadis, it's legal and considered a form of worship if you do it to a non-muslim woman.
>>7643710
okay, but you do realize that the only type of person that would perceive language, ideas, etc., as neutral means of expression would be someone that perceived themselves as possessing the absolute. thus this question of truth capital t is essential to, and, in fact, immanent to, the question of postmodernism.
>>7643689
There either is or isn't a god.
When we die we disappear, or we don't.
These are absolute truths. One of them must be true. If we don't know which is correct, we can't say that neither is.
>>7643725
you've just proven the point. uncertainty is all that we have. and thus endlessly speculating over whether or not there is or isn't absolute truth is fundamentally pointless.
>>7643729
I agree, but we can't say that there isn't an absolute truth becauae we can't see one. Or are you saying that the search for absolute truth is irrelevant? That would make more sense to me.
>>7643728
I do not. Rape is natural, in the same way that murder, is natural. These are naturally occurring phenomena in the animal world. However, being that we, as human beings, although technically animals, have arisen from tribal, pre-civilized life, I believe that we possess the ability to do what other animals cannot, that is, think. to behave like an animal is to be inhuman, in this sense. i don't think such behavior should have any place in civil society, but this is a rather complex conversation that i'm not altogether prepared to have at this moment, but basically, no.
>>7643734
Because*
>>7643738
Okay. I'm not trying to prove you wrong, by the way. I'm genuinely curious.
>>7643716
I'm just stating facts. Some people (ISIS) don't think it's wrong, so using it as an universal example of evil may not always.
>>7643734
That is precisely the case. This search for some absolute has proven irrelevant, and we would be better served pursuing the betterment of one another, rather than subjugating our lives to some abstract notion that would rule us.
>>7643742
Did you mean to reply to my post about you rejecting the notion that rape is bad?
>>7643742
*always work.
>>7643744
I wouldn't say that the search for the absolute has proven irrelevant, but you bring up good points.
>>7643741
What are your beliefs, regarding these things?
>>7643747
>>7643738
Rape, like all crimes, is not evil in of its self. Most humans have decided that it's wrong because it's harmful to formation of peaceful societies - this is also why I find rape to be evil. This does not mean, however, that rape is wrong because of some deep moral code given to us from God or from the universe or from human nature.
>>7643755
I used to be a Christian, but I recently became an agnostic. I'm fairly young, so I don't have any beliefs set in stone. I just know that I feel overwhelmed by life right now. I hope that by reading philosophy and quality fiction I can become smarter, better, and understand the world and myself just a little more.
Thanks for reading my diary :^)
>>7643763
What is your definition of evil?
>>7643769
He defined it in the post you nipple trigger
>>7643769
Anything that harms society. If I didn't care about society, then nothing would be evil. Evil is relative to your goals.
>>7643766
I am basically in agreement, actually. Good and evil and just concepts, and they only really make sense once you define an end. With an end in mind, the good will be merely whatever best achieves such an end, and the evil will be anything that would serve to impede upon said end--in my view, anyways.
And acquainting yourself with philosophy is the way, my friend. It certainly changed my life, back when I was a teen.
Lmao how reddit itt
Just google it you fuck
>>7643773
He didn't. Don't be a faggot. He answered my question without being an asshole, yet you thought that you would contribute to the discussion by dismissing my request for clarification.
>>7643808
Please tell me what to Google.
>>7643808
Discussion never hurts.
>>7643841
It does if if is the standard 4chan bs
>>7643847
But I don't think this was quite the standard bs discussion, we were having. It seemed to be atleast somewhat substantive; certainly not merely shitposting. Just choose another thread if it doesn't suit you; why go out of your way to criticize?
>>7643841
My pet peeve is when a thread has a pleasant discussion going, and some faggot comes in and starts tearing shit up.
>>7643847
What was "bs" about this thread?
>>7643852
Damn what a very reddit post
>>7643860
>Google it
>What a very reddit post
Stop using buzzwords. Contribute or leave.
>>7643860
What would make it not a reddit post? Childish vulgarity? A lack of care?
>>7643870
Why even ask? Doesn't matter as your ilk is in charge now. Invasion accomplished
Delete this let it fall
>>7643882
Holy fuck you are a massive faggot.
>>7643893
T. Imgur and Reddit enthusiast
>>7643898
kill yourself on a spike fucker
Lmao how easy and fun it is to derail threads
>>7643958
Why are you on /lit/? Are you Australian?
>>7643978
No I'm German. And because it's moderately funny
>>7643988
Oh. Nvm, I feel bad for you.
>>7643679
Completely incorrect mate. Humanity has never really been "sure" of anything. We just believe in whatever explanation that makes the most sense at the time. Then roll with it until we obtain more data and reiterate our ideas ad infinitum.
>>7643655
I'd reject it
>>7643604
>>7643679
>You can't construct a philosophy on something that you are not sure of.
certainty is gained as soon as you leave any rationalism : the more you have faith in your speculations, the less you are certain
>>7643728#
>So you reject the notion that rape is bad?
there is no definition of rape, outside of the legal definition of rape. why ? because nobody on earth knows what is the consent.
>>7643655
you, sir, are a (closet) modernist.
>>7643738
>to behave like an animal is to be inhuman
You're basically advocating Humean relativism, just so you know. Sympathy is universal.
![ftfy].png](https://i.imgur.com/nR1KHUb.png "ftfy].png")