Which one should I read next, /lit/?
>>7618946
>P&V translation
Throw it in the garbage and never touch a book again.
>>7618964
Can't be that bad, right?
But memes aside, which one should I read first?
>>7618982
It's not a meme, this is by far the worst translation of the book you could have possibly picked.
Have fun reading it and thinking it's good only because you've been told it is.
>>7618982
Don't know about War and Peace, but in the case of The Master & Margarita the P+V thing is definitely not a meme.
>>7618989
Is it just plain bad? What if I'm reading it for the plot (I'm serious). I heard that War and Peace isn't a very hard book to read, so I wanted to choose between that or Monte Cristo after reading a bunch of harder books.
Monte Cristo is a fun read from the beginning to the very end. I recommend it. I loved it so much I read it over 5 days, didn't do much else other than read eat sleep and run.
What is a good translation of war and peace?
>>7618992
P&V translations butcher the original and aren't good in their own right either.
Pevear doesn't even speak Russian.
The plot would generally remain the same, but if it's at all possible I would recommend you take a look at other translations since they are superior and would be more fun to read/give you greater insight into what the original would be like.
You did well picking the unabridged version of The Count of Monte Cristo
>>7618992
if you're reading for the plot and just want a good time, i would recommend rosemary edmonds. i tried the opening few chapters of a few different ones and hers was by far the most enjoyable. i have no idea how faithful it is, but it's a superb fucking read on its own merits.
my friend who has similar tastes to me read p&v at the same time and hated it.
>>7619018
Thanks for the recommendation, anon.
>>7619008
>What is a good translation of war and peace?
Maudes. Also, what translation have you read of Monte Cristo?
P&V's style works really well for some authors, but not for others. They're great for Gogol and Chekhov, poor for Dostoevsky and Bulgakov, and somewhere inbetween for Tolstoy.
I've only read the P&V for War and Peace, but found it totally acceptable.
>>7619009
>implying
Look at this guy everyone he can't actually form his own opinions, he's just contrary and reads articles written by actual intellectuals so he can steal their viewpoints.
This P&V meme needs to stop, only literal children have trouble understanding their translations and they actually capture the Russian qualities of it as opposed to just turning it into a British novel.
>>7619285
How bad is the P&V for Dostoevsky? I've got the Vintage Crime and Punishment, but haven't read it yet.
>>7619343
It isn't bad. I've read Notes, C&P, The Idiot and BK translated by them and they were all excellent. However, I can't compare them to other translations as they're the only ones I've read. My older brother read BK by Garnett and claimed that it was garbage compared to P&V's translation. He's never steered me wrong so I took his word for it and have no regrets.
I really like the War and Peace Briggs translation, his dialogue has made the characters immediately endearing in what I've read so far even with the occasional use of English slang.
>>7619285
>Gogol
Really? I read the P&V translation of Dead Souls, and while I didn't particularly mind it as I had no frame of reference for other translations, I read on a number of occasions that it isn't the best one. Apparently they fail to capture the charm of his prose or something. Not sure what the superior translation is though.
>>7619517
>Avsey and McDuff better for Dosto.
What about Magarshack? I found his translations of C&P, TBK better than Avsey and McDuff but I prefer Avsey's translation of The Idiot over anyone because I found that better and Maudes for W&P and Anna Karenina. P&V is shitty all the way, though. I don't know what translations I should prefer for Les Miserable, Don Quixote, and Count for Monte Cristo, any suggestions?
>>7619600
Edith Hamilton for Quixote
Robin Buss for Count
>>7619600
Haven't read any Magarshack, from what I've seen his NftU is good.
>>7619624
You meant Edith *Grossman, right?
>>7618991
Does that mean its a good or bad translation?
Thanks for all the input on what translation is the best, anons, but I was kind of hoping you'd let me know which one I should read first, War and Peace or Count of Monte Cristo.
>>7619691
Count, W&P is way more work.
>>7619691
What interests you more? Maybe read a bit from each, or read the blurbs. Maudes are best for Tolstoy though desu lad. Get the Everyman War and Peace, it's a beauty.
>>7619692
Sweet, thanks anon.
>>7619699
Both are pretty interesting to me. I've read the first chapter of Count of Monte Cristo, haven't read any of War and Peace yet.
I've got the Vintage edition of War and Peace, but I definitely wouldn't mind the Everyman's Library version, if it wasn't $73 AUD.
>>7619709
Gutted lad, costs like £20 in England.
>>7619728
Damn, I'm jealous. I really hate the prices we have sometimes.
By the way, is there a reason the Everyman's library edition is 1744 pages, compared to the 1300 pages that the Vintage is?
I've got Ulysses from Everyman's, the size is much smaller than I thought, but it's over 1000 pages. Is the reason for the length because of their dimensions?
>>7619736
It's possibly due to their intros, notes, timelines being repeated through the volumes.
Sometimes when a single work is in more than 1 volume, they'll repeat the secondary material in each. It's the same in my version of Plutarch's Lives which is in two volumes.
>>7619736
The amount of Notes in the Everymans Decline and Fall is staggering
>>7619765
It is athenarrative history. I personally think it is the highest english ever written along with Hume, but of course there are prose fags who would cringe at that. Its a beautiful edition however.
>>7619776
Sounds interesting, I'd definitely like to read something like that.
Volumes 1-3 cost even more than War and Peace though.
>>7619793
yeah its a huge box set and there are two if you are autistic like me and need to complete it. I think its a wonderful addition to a library however, and will give you something to read for 3-4 months
>>7619699
Okay now all beauty and price aside, is the text in UK or US English?
>>7619840
It would be UK English. The Maudes were English.
>>7619843
But the Edition I own of Anna Karenina from Everyman's has US English text in it and it's translated by Maudes.
>>7618982
it's not that bad. Ive read three different translations. It's not the best but it's not garbage. It's a meme
>>7619924
Get on the coach anon...
>>7619931
I don't get these fucking memes dude
>>7619840
Alright guys, so I just read the first chapter of War and Peace.
Holy fuck that's a lot of footnotes. Why isn't everything just in English? What's the point of the French, can't Tolstoy just have told us that they're speaking French?
>>7619941
Whoops, didn't mean to reply to that guy.
>>7619270
The penguin version that OP posted. It's unabridged.
>>7619941
Be careful anon, you don't want to sound like a pleb round these ends.
>>7619941
holy shit pleb. Let me offer you some advice. Return your copy or put it away and just stick to John Green novels. Also you just revealed that you haven't read Infinite Jest which is a prerequisite for posting on /lit/, so back to /tv/ with you until you completed the required reading
>>7619949
Whoops.
>>7619961
I've read the first chapter of IJ, but it's a pretty big book so I haven't continued with it yet.
I just didn't expect this many footnotes. The end notes I can understand, as they offer additional information without filling up the page, but I feel that really is no need for the French.
>>7619974
But they're French, why would they be speaking Russian
>>7619961
Infinite Jest has zero footnotes, my man.
>>7619982
I don't know.
The footnotes could have been avoided by just saying that so and so spoke in so and so language.
There's almost entire sentences in English, and just one on word that's in French for some reason and thus requires a footnote.
>>7620001
Who's the translator?
Normally it's just the dialogues by frogs that are in French, I can't recall any French words being in regular narrative, I may just have poor memory.
>>7620010
It's P&V. Yeah, it's only in the dialogue, but it's pretty annoying.
>>7618946
monte cristo
>>7620017
Maybe you ought to return to it later. Not being cheeky but your probably being a bit of a pleb.
>>7620052
Either that or just get used to the French desu
>>7620017
We told you, man.
We told you about the P&V.
Return it to the Barnes and Noble you bought it from and get the Everymans Library box set instead.
>>7620105
I'm fairly sure Maudes have French dialogue as well.
>>7620105
Yeah, I know.
I got it from bookdepository, so it's not as easy to return.
I want to get the Everyman's Library set, but the price is a little steep.
The Oxford World's Classics revised Maude has the French in footnotes.
The Everyman's Library original Maude has it translated into English.
>>7618982
always maude
>>7620129
Have you checked all sites/sellers?
>>7620154
I've check bookdepository, the Everyman's Library site which took me to the Amazon page, and eBay. Cheapest price is the Amazon one at $66 AUD.
>>7620171
>AUD
Well shit, I got my copy for $38 CAD.
Still worth it.
>>7620179
Yeah, our prices are really shitty. I'll eventually end up getting the Everyman's Library. I guess I'll be reading Count of Monte Cristo first anyway, so there's no need to purchase another copy just yet.
>>7620188
Don't think about it too much. I've bought shitty translations without research more times than I care to admit. It's trial and error.
>>7620188
You could always get Oxford's War and Peace, which is a revised Maudes - bound to be cheaper.
>>7620216
Is it this one? It's a paperback, and not badly priced.
http://www.bookdepository.com/War-and-Peace-Aylmer-Maude-Louise-Maude-Leo-Tolstoy/9780199232765
>>7620221
Yep. Won't be as fancy as Everyman, but it's a good'n.
IS P&V ACCEPTABLE FOR BULGAKOV?
>>7619993
well the version of W&P he's reading has a lot of endnotes and footnoots so I assume he's bitching about the endnotes as well. And he admitted above that I was right about him not reading infinite jest so get fucked
>>7620385
Nah, I'm fine with the endnotes as they give further explanation to things without filling up space on the page. It's just the footnotes for the use of French that I don't like.
>>7620392
Well, I can assure you. The footnotes and french can get tedious at times but it really makes the book way more authentic
Not OP here but how does P&V fare for their Dostoevsky translations? I know that their Brothers Karamazov cover is memed often but how's the content?
>>7618946
the count of monte cristo. my favorite novel. the best revenge story ever told. so influential.
>>7618946
The counte of monte cristo is an easy read. You can get through it quickly despite its length. If you read W&P read the Briggs translation.
>>7620344
I found their M&M genuinely hard to get through in places- although there were some nice bits, overall it felt like a terrible translation to me. But I've never read any others to compare.
>>7620148
Maude translation of War and Peace was the comfiest thing I've ever read. 11/10
>>7619941
the footnotes are because Tolstoy put an enormous amount of work into ensuring accuracy. If you read them you will learn a ton about Russian history. And the french is done for various genius reasons, I don't really feel like explaining all of it but it exposes the hypocrisy of the elite.
>>7620612
I mean, it's not abysmal, but it is stilted and even ugly at times. You're much, much better off with Asvey, Magarshack, or McDuff for Dostoevsky
>>7621318
Thanks homie
>>7621325
No sweat mate. If you've brought a P&V translation I wouldn't bother taking it back or anything, they're fine, but I just would avoid getting them in future. Some people overstate their shittiness on /lit/ - yeah, they're not great, but they're not amateurs. There's just better translations available.
