Does Zen literature make any goddam sense to anyone here?
>Just get rid of conceptual thought bro
>THE MIND IS THE BUDDHA
>THE MIND IS NOT THE BUDDHA
>If you don't get rid of your discriminatory thought you'll be reincarnated a thousand times as a worm
>Just know your mind bro, KNOW YOUR MIND
How the fuck are you suppose to get anything out of this vague nonsense?
I'm not bashing on Zen, because I legit think it is real. But, I doubt anyone on this board actually HAS Zen. Reading a few books and repeating zen koans does not make you zen. So how the fuck are we suppose to make heads or tails out of this shit?
>>7587238
You're doing it wrong, man.
>>7587238
you are doing it wrong, bro, you don't try to make 'sense' out of it.
>>7587238
Zen is bullshit
eastern religions are nonsense
>>7587238
From what I understand, Zen is just the road you travel on. The goal is unattainment, and only through unattainment can we act in a truly compassion and human manner. The reason they do this whole song and dance, this idea that when you meet the buddha you have to kill him, is because saying "I have achieved enlightenment," is itself an attainment.
Reincarnation is just bullshit though. Purely thrown in there for normies.
>>7587276
It is a voidness within an emptiness surrounded by absence
Here is a good introductory Zen text: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/zen/mumonkan.htm
>>7587274
Zen isnt a religion, you're thinking of Buddhism.
>>7587343
Zen is just Buddhism with more ass paddling.
>>7587348
X is just Y with Z
>>7587343
zen is buddhism
but buddhism is not necessarily zen
>>7587348
Zen is not Buddhism. Zen masters went out of their way to distinguish what they were saying from Buddhism.
www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/CriticalZen/What_and_why_of_Critical_Buddhism_1.pdf
>trying to intellectualize yourself into Zen
>trying to understand Zen without practice
>In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few.
Marone how fucking pleb is this board?
>>7587370
There is no practice in Zen. That was introduced by Dogen but the patriarchs of Zen from the lineage of Bodhidharma never recommended meditation because they said no amount of meditation will make you into a Buddha like polishing a stone to make it into a mirror.
>>7587370
OooOooOo look at me i'm a spooky zen ghost! I'm enlightened because I live in a commune with a bunch of hairless asian dorks! We have transcended the need for waifuuuUUUUuuUUuuuss!
>>7587238
Holding opposing thoughts at once helps you see the zen between them
>>7587378
In the sense that meditating for any aim, even for enlightenment, is doomed to fail. There is an experience that occurs spontaneously of its own accord that is what is meant by Zen. Whether its meditating or looking at a tree in the right lighting at the right moment, enlightenment (satori) does happen. It's what the Buddha transmitted to his disciple in the flower sermon, it is what is to be achieved in the solving of a loan, it's what is transmitted from master to master across lineages.
without this essential experience, you all look like a bunch of spergs talking out your ass
Just read Heidegger
>>7587238
Misunderstanding and poor translation of terms.
There's the Big Mind - the Buddha Nature.
There's the little mind - the thing that creates thoughts, feelings, emotions, concepts.
Still the little mind, and the big one becomes apparent.
>>7587238
reality is a contradiction. Understanding this contradiction leads to enlightenment. But like Protestantism, there are a million different fucking sects that westerners get this weird soupy mess of a philosophy. Plus Zen ideology gets mixed with Pure Land Buddhist teachings all the time.
>>7587591
>>7587571
>presupposes in such truths of faith or science or even the university of life, however, is a kind of opening or openness by virtue of which something can and does show itself and let itself be seen. This opening resists depiction. Indeed the attempt to speak of it becomes embroiled in the most complicated abstrusities in order to let this quite simple thing - which is no thing at all - show itself and become manifest. To let unconcealment show itself: this is perhaps the most succinct formulation of Heidegger's thinking.
And Zen, too
>>7587599
>Hegel
>the system is in motion, contradiction (dialectic) is the motor
It's all the same mane
>>7587610
>>7587610
Yin and yang, big mind and small mind, infinite and finite, nothingness and dasein, eternal and temporal, being and becoming, thesis and antithesis, one and the many, being-in-itself and being-for-itself, the unmanifest and manifest, the Tao and what is named, unconditioned and conditioned, unseen and seen
On and on and on
>>7587656
>>7587571
>philosopher
>zen
Stop. Just stop.
Reminder that Heidegger completely obliterated Buddhism
>>7587850
I think a lot of what Heidegger says fits pretty well within the boundaries of Zen teachings.
Early Ch'an was very intellectual but still valued solitude in natural scenery and contemplative time. Silent illumination was done by monks and so forth.
It was intellectual in the sense that these monks, such as Wang Wei or Bassho, were well-read and wrote a lot of poetry from their spontaneous insight. They manifested their deep non-conceptual apprehension into poetic words. From Infinity or the "background of stillness" poetic words flowed and inspired came in the form of words that were aligned with Infinity, or the wordless. We see this with figures like Han Shan, Shiwu, and so forth.
Most of what modern Americans and Westerners consider Zen is a Meiji era distortion of Zen/Ch'an. It was bastardized for militaristic purposes.
The best way to understand Zen is to go to the woods, calm one's mind, and read some good poetry. Then write your own.
Doing Shikantaza frequently is good too. Ignore the Japanese perversion that sitting in lotus or half lotus is necessary. Sitting in a chair is sufficient.
Keep in mind kensho is a very real experience but takes a lifetime to sort out.
>>7587238
How to make sense of Zen:
Infuse your confusion with Mindfulness and Equanimity,
>>7587865
Can you or anyone please relate zen to me using only memes?
>>7587850
Well then post something or a link to something demonstrating that he did because I have learned to be skeptical of such claims because they typically are rooted in misconceptions about Buddhism
Zen is about experience, you stupid shit.
>>7587238
>>7587850
heidegger thinks that a dasein is all the potentialities of ''one person'' and that
**cognition, understanding is subordinated to existence
**the understanding projects the possibles. what understanding projects constitutes the class of all possibilities of the dasein
**we can think of the possibilities because we have them
**we exist more in terms of our possibilities, than in our realities
**Heidegger thinks that there is a tight link between thinking and being.
=> Heidegger is the typical rationalist who take seriously his fantasies/speculations/abstractions/deliriums
the Zen buddhists knows that is sterile what people call ''rationality'', ''reason'' and other words whose goals is to make people believe that this faculty differs from the imagination.
zen buddhist attempt to destroy the faith of any rationalist in his personal rationality in using the rationalist words and rules of inferences.
[this is what op does not see yet]
as soon as you stop taking seriously your thoughts produced by your mind/spirit/imagination until you make them cease, you reach a state of immobility and then things happen.
>>7587860
write the poetry based off experience
also read toni packer, she got it
What's the best book on Zen? I find myself agreeing with a lot of it.
>>7587972
Hui neng's Platform Sutra, Yampolsky translation is best
>autistic mohist detected
i fart in your general direction op
>>7587976
Red Pine's translation isn't bad either.
why people choose zen or tibetan buddhism when they can choose theravadan buddhism ?
>>7588003
Why do people choose strawberry or mint ice cream when they can choose cookie dough ?
>>7588003
I bet you couldn't even obtain satori.
I'll have my theravadan buddhism after I finished both zen, tibetan AND mahayana fag.
>>7587343
Buddhism is neither a religion
