Is Allen Ginsberg the single worst "poet" of all time?
He was just a mentally underdeveloped pervert who wrote dirty shit that made hippies giggle.
>And then, like,
>We took out our cocks
>And he fucked me in the ass
>HOWL
>>7553412
Very gifted at self-promotion.
>>7553412
Howl isn't the good thing thing he wrote you know. Kaddish is an excellent long form poem. Apart from that though it's mostly shite
he sucks
bukowski is worse
>kikes in charge of poetry
Well no shit
>>7553645
James Franco does a great Merchant voice in the film Howl.
yea he's pretty bad
>>7553636
Eh, Bukowski is a much more talented writer.
>>7554710
You're against NAMBLA? You're against Love? What are you, some kind of conservative shitlord?
HOWL
He could have been a great(er) poet. He was really well read and I've seen some of the lectures he's given, dude knew his stuff. His poetry gives the opposite impression. Sunflower Sutra is decent though.
>>7554746
>You're against Love?
Those beats were really "progressive-thinking" guys but they weren't really brilliant.
Burroughs, for instance, killed his wife in that absurd accident and his son drank himself to death because he couldn't handle all the ghosts in his head his dad gave him.
Sphincter
Allen Ginsberg
(1986)
from: Cosmopolitan Greetings: Poems, 1986-1992
I hope my good old asshole holds out
60 years it's been mostly OK
Tho in Bolivia a fissure operation
survived the altiplano hospital--
a little blood, no polyps, occasionally
a small hemorrhoid
active, eager, receptive to phallus
coke bottle, candle, carrot
banana & fingers--
Now AIDS makes it shy, but still
eager to serve--
out with the dumps, in with the condom'd
orgasmic friend--
still rubbery muscular,
unashamed wide open for joy
But another 20 years who knows,
old folks got troubles everywhere--
necks, prostates, stomachs, joints--
Hope the old hole stays young
till death, relax
>>7555314
Cool, post more.
I was born in 1988.
>>7555253
His son sounds like a god damn pussy
>>7554619
I read Post Office and it sucked dick
>>7553644
>Stop not liking what I like! WAHHHHHHHH! downvoted!
>>7553412
He, like all of the beats and those who tried to emulate them (i.e. the hippies), were a largely worthless generation history would be better off without.
>>7553412
>endless balls
>>7555541
>reading his prose
>>7553412
He ain't in any of my modern poetry anthologies. Just ignore him. When some gray and lumpy, honorary Burroughs representative/wannabe shows up at your next artsy gathering, maintain a blank expression, nod if you must but do your best to ignore him. Squint a little when you make eye contact, it'll show you're reading right through his sappy schtick.
>>7555722
Holy crap I meant lump, honorary Ginsberg-type, not Burroughs. I'm sick of showing up at NYC lit and art events and the fucking Ginsberg look-a-likes start milling around with that shitty fucking grin and hair.
He's actually a very good poet, one of the few who skilfully used the modernist style. Too bad he was also a complete degenerate and only employed his poetry to say degeneracy is the solution to being disillusioned by degeneracy.
>>7555666
hold up
>triple five triple six combo
>two dubs posts before
>one dubs after
>dem 22's before and after
this is like planets parade or something.
>>7555515
He was raped as a child. I think he got raped more than just one time because his father wasn't there to protect him.
>>7555722
>denying Burroughs as the most talented and influential of that period
U dun goofed
>>7555876
>He was raped as a child. I think he got raped more than just one time because his father wasn't there to protect him.
You mean because his father raped him.
>>7556120
burroughs was too busy fucking 13 year old boys in tangier to rape his own kid
>>7556092
I really feel that burroughs was the only one who could write above the level and have more interesting ideas then the average 11th grade bicurious male and I'll always appreciate how he shit on kerouac for publishing a mediocre book of neal cassady's escapades and collecting fame
>>7556161
Have to agree that Burroughs has way more actual substance than Kerouac or Ginsberg. Just as degenerate, but he had some very deep thoughts and his writing had a very cynical attitude toward degeneracy, it didn't promote it at all.
>>7556176
Burroughs seems to feel amazed and slightly guilty/disgusted that he's getting away with it all while Ginsberg has this vibe of "why oh why can't i fuck 12 year olds and not get in trouble????"
Also burroughs really stirred some interesting literary experiments (cut up technique, random structure of NL) when he wasn't shooting up every 2 hours
>>7553412
Fuckin' bullshit that fuckin' pederast titled his shit HOWL, because that's a kickass fucking name and word to title shit and now I can't use it because I don't want to be associated with that fuckin' weird pedo.
Fuck.
>>7556205
ginsberg a shit but parts of howl are great
>>7556211
The title is fuckin' great. It sucks that he's a pederast because now you can't use the word in anything without people thinking you're a pedo like Ginsberg.
>>7556144
Don't bash the artistic process
>>7556120
The kid was raped by a Latin American or maybe a gang of Latin Americans. I don't remember. Maybe it was a Moroccan.
>>7556552
http://dangerousminds.net/comments/note_from_the_final_days_of_william_burroughs_jr
>After a long stay with his grandparents, Billy went to live with his father in Morocco, who introduced him to pot at thirteen and failed to protect him from multiple rape attempts.
>>7556176
>>7556191
Let's take time to remind ourselves thought that:
- Burroughs wrote the exact same story over and over again and didn't do much beyond that. He fell into largely the same trap as the other beats as barely rising above solipsistic dribble mots of the time.
- He was a colossal fuck up as a person: mummy and daddy fund his travels and drug use, shit father, completely out of touch with reality (there's an anecdote that his friend visited him and Burroughs didn't know who the President was).
My hate for the beats isn't that they wrote shitty poetry and literature but that all their stories are romanticised roman-a-clefs about themselves and their wacky adventures and that people look to their personal lives for guidance in their own.
>>7556588
Burroughs was good you big meanie
>>7556735
Burroughs was garbage. There is no argument. The only Beat you could argue was anything but garbage is probably Kerouac. I've even heard someone argue that Kerouac was the ONLY Beat. That it all begins and ends with him. As it should.
>>7556943
Wee woo wee woo! Lead in the water! Where do you live kiddo? We must rectify this!
>>7556588
>colossal fuckup because he was born rich
The resentment is strong in this one. Your other points are valid, but having rich parents who fund you your work isn't a character flaw.
>>7556588
He wrote about the same lifestyle, but the idea that it was "the same story" is dead wrong. He bleeds from story to story, a man being operated on by an insane doctor, to someone having to admit to having homosexual thoughts to prove they aren't gay.
Yes, he was a dreadful fuck up, and a complete degenerate and altogether wretched human being. Which is why he is very good at writing about it. He does not remotely romanticize it.
>>7556588
every beat a shit person. this doesnt negate the fact that burroughs was the best writer and naked lunch is (in my opinion) a pretty interesting and enjoyable (in a way) book
Why are all jews perverts?
>>7556943
>The only Beat you could argue was anything but garbage is probably Kerouac.
I read all the beats a while back and now that I've read a lot, looking back I'll agree entirely with you. Kerouac (other than OtR) was a relatively varied writer, even if be couldn't write worth a damn. Even though it's maulin and poorly written, look at Visions of Gerard for an example of the only Beat capable of writing a human story.
>>7556570
>13 year olds don't want to smoke pot
>13 year olds need their daddy to protect them from rape
Man up, son
>>7555722
>>7555666
>>7555655
>>7555622
very very very nice digits I check them
>>7553412
Pubeface Pedowitz is a degenerate of the lowest order and a blot on the tapestry of Western Civilization, yet the mewling spawn of suburbia are taught to grovel before him by their decaying boomer sires
>>7555541
Great review man, don't you have some DFW shitposting to do?
I'd like to meme with you guys but I just can't hate Howl. I can't hate the beats. I can't even hate On The Road. It's bretty good stuff and it got a lot of people hyped.
>>7557724
>It's bretty good stuff and it got a lot of people hyped.
Getting gormless unwashed hippies 'hyped' is the mark of good literature now?
>>7557774
nice simplification there, pal, cut the fucking snark you boob.
>>7557839
I didn't simplify it. It would be pretty difficult to simply given that your defence of this dirty paedophile and his stablemates was that 'it's bretty good and it got a lot of people hyped.'
In fact I did the exact opposite of simplifying it by actually identifying which dirty unwashed hippies it 'hyped'.
>>7553412
God, I deplore the beats. Fucking degenerates, the lot of them.
>not reading exclusively epic poems by theGreeksand the Romans
Literal plebs.
>>7557951
Milton is also acceptable.
>>7556588
beat isn't meant to be revered, i think it's meant to be shameful. It's self deprecating, the grime of poetry. i don't know anybody who tried to mimic a beat poet, probably because it's better to read the genre as cautionary
Ginsberg reading his LSD poem to Buckley is like the fucking cringe Olympics
The beats are all trash
Controversial opinion incoming:
The second-generation beats (Bukowski, Hunter Thompson, Lester Bangs) were better than the original beats.
Not that I'm apologising for the beats, who I have no real affection for, snatches of Howl and Kerouac are passable.
>>7559285
Henry Miller makes most of the Beats obsolete.
Never read Bukowki, but I agree on Thompson and Bangs.
>>7558429
W R O N G
>>7559285
lester bangs, are you fucking serious
>The year of our Lord, 2016
>Reading Beats
He was talented and improving until the mid 60s. Afterwards he just became edgy for edgy's sake.
>>7559490
What's wrong with Lester Bangs?
>>7555876
He didn't get raped. I read his auto biography and he mentioned that some of his dad's homosexual friends hit on him and made advances while he was in Morocco but never was he forcefully sexed up the butt.
>>7553412
Nah, he is awesome. Amazing actually.
>>7554808
shut the fuck up.
>>7555314
That's great.
>>7555722
rheinhold cacoethes everyone.
>>7556092
Kerouac was and continues to be, the most influential American writer of the 20th century.
>>7556161
>how he shit on kerouac for publishing a mediocre book of neal cassady's escapades and collecting fame
lol you have no idea what you are talking about.
please don't embarrass yourself in public talking this shit.
>>7560253
>reddit believes this
>>7556943
This.
>>7559462
Kerouac is better than Henry Miller.
>>7560253
That's not how you spell Emerson.
>>7560263
nice counter.
>>7560281
LOL being this deluded.
>>7560285
Let's hear your pick, Mr. Picky.
>>7560288
Not him, but Raymond Carver obviously. Or, if you want to get pedantic, Iowa Writer's Workshop or Gordon Lish. How about that for a Holy Trinity?
>>7559285
Bukowski sucks, I actually kinda like Kerouac's prose at times, other times it is complete shit, Ginsberg sucks the vast majority of the time, Burroughs is pretty good but isn't really a beat, more postmodern. Thompson is entertaining but the caricature of him as "le drug man XD " is annoying. The beats < Henry Miller
>>7555314
Anal fissures are nothing to take lightly, that shit can lead to fistulas which can fuck you up real bad, I'm talking abscesses the size of golfballs and shit. There's nothing poetic about having an abscess drain connected to a catheter that's drilled through your asscheek. It drains into a big old back of colon pus and they rarely heal entirely.
TL;DR: Buttsex? More like buttfucked.
That being said, think of Ginsberg this way: SOMEONE had to be the guy that bridges the gap between pop culture innocence and everyone knowing just how elastic the human anus is.
>>7560225
never
>>7560253
that's easily hemingway
>>7560387
I sympathize with your opinions and I also like your picture, my fellow anon.
>>7560387
same
>>7560387
that person might also have haddiscernible talent
>>7561111
>1111
