Hey /lit/
Im pre-law, and curious as to what you guys suggest i read in my downtime. Im getting a bachelor's in English, if that helps any.
Laws - Plato
Atlas shrugged
the trial
Also, any books to help get me more involved with reading as I'm going into a career field that requires a lot of reading. I have trouble staying focused, but im trying to work on that. I dont read much, maybe a book or two every few months. So anything is appreciated.
>>7530591
you don't need to be worrying about reading anything in your free time besides what's assigned. Just become OCD about your assignments to ensure that you get as close to a 4.0 as possible.
Have you decided what year you're taking your LSAT? Do not overwhelm yourself with personal reading assignments. You're going to have enough on your plate.
>>7530591
Bill Foster wrote a book, you know.
>>7530659
I have no decided on a school, let alone the lsat.
Im finishing up my sophomore year at community college right now, with plans to transfer into a 4 year after the summer.
>>7530720
Did it have to do with thos beans?
>>7530659
I do appreciate your kind words. Im trying not to rush into finishing up my classes, but i feel a bit behind. Im taking five classes this semester(and most likely during my last 4 semesters after) but during break im so lazy. I sit around and binge watch shows I've seen 7 times over. I figured some reading might help me stay focused on the end goal and to keep my mind sharp.
>>7530741
start reading law forums.
>>7530741
You might be better off with picking up some sort of sport or something if you're trying to keep yourself focused.
Sitting down for long periods of time is never good for you
>>7530598
This desu senpai
>>7530725
y;es
>>7530725
http://www.amazon.com/Press-Pass-Gets-You-Door/dp/1614562423
I got him to sign mine
>>7530591
>I'm pre-law, and curious as to what you guys suggest i read in my downtime.
thirdtierreality.blogspot.com
lawlemmings.tumblr.com
abovethelaw.com
>I'm finishing up my sophomore year at community college right now, with plans to transfer into a 4 year after the summer.
I'm not trying to pick on you, but you sound like someone who is thoroughly unaware of the sorry state of law schools and the legal profession. Legal jobs have been decimated by automation and outsourcing. Yet, law schools still pump out almost double the number of graduates as there are jobs. Law schools/law professors are greedy crooks who make 6 figure salaries doing shit all work while their students are saddled with as much in debt. They play on both popular perceptions that law and being a lawyer is without a doubt lucrative and glamorous, as well as on the fears and uncertainties of many young people like you--English majors, philosophy majors, etc. who see law as a viable career path being someone who isn't in a science/tech major. (There's no math on the LSAT!)
There is no essential suggested reading for anyone who considers themselves "pre-law" other than those blogs (and many others) and then LSAT prep books and prep tests.
Unless you have a job as an attorney secured through a close connection, going to law school is basically a very bad idea unless you get into Harvard, Yale, or Stanford--OR another top 14 Law school on a guaranteed full or else very sizable scholarship. This is not hyperbole.
Buy a book of recent official LSAT prep tests. Take one, under real timed conditions, and just see where you're at with zero study. Then study the LSAT for 3 or so months and keep taking prep tests. If you're not scoring around a 170 you can most likely be certain that law school is not viable for you.
Hi, 2l here,
Change your major and don't go to law school.
>>7533445
Not OP, but what school are you going to? Just curious.
>>7533558
tier two state school.
you don't sound smart enough to get into a t-14 school so i'd advise you to think of something else to do with your life
t-14 goer here and i'd still advise myself to find something else to do with my life so
>>7533738
I knew in my heart I wanted to be a ghostbuster
When I was 6
>>7533765
He is not 6 and becoming a lawyer is feasible (becoming a ghostbuster is not).
Is this how you're going to explain yourself?
>>7533738
>>7533358 explained it fairly well from a purely pragmatic/monetary perspective. I don't have money problems, im at a t14 school, and I still hate it. I wouldn't take any undergrad who says he's a "pre-law" seriously, but assuming he actually has a handle on what studying law is like (unlikely) or what practicing law is like (even more unlikely) and for some reason finds the subject matter and the work to be exciting or, like, his calling or something that still doesn't mean he'd be happy at all in law. I don't think that most of the top students at my top school really care all that much about law as a discipline. It's sortve irrelevant to what the profession has become. The ones who thrive are driven by something else, some internal little carousel that lets them dedicate every waking moment to this dry ass field which spits you out into a hellishly competitive work environment. You ask them what they're interested in, they say they study law, watch some sports and go to sleep. An average of 7 hours of non law-school related activities a week. I have no idea what their carrot on a stick is but its certainly not the-law-in-itself. If you don't have this, this whatever it is, demonic drive forward, devotion to a step ladder to more step ladders to more step ladders, I'd highly recommend you do something else. I wish I was still tutoring the lsat and reading books with my 8 hours of free time.
>>7533358
I'd have to agree with this. I just transferred from a a two year school to Cornell, and I've been talking to a lot of prelaws (although I'm bio). Most of them are stressed as hell about everything and extremely anal about every assignment. They think doing anything less than perfect at an ivy league may prevent them from reaching their goals. You really do need to go to a big name school (and sometimes be in the top 10%) just to find a suitable job for the ridiculous loans you'll be repaying.
That being said, I've always thought a law degree would be cool as fuck. And a JD would be able to land you something that pays pretty decently (though it may have nothing to do with law). So if making exorbitant amounts of money to pay back a ridiculously high loan amount isn't an issue, go ahead. But in that case I'd consider using this time to plan ahead and find your stepping stones. Find out when you're going to take that LSAT, which colleges you can transfer to in order to land you in a decent law school, and work on getting some connections. You'll feel much better about everything.
That being said, go find a generic "books everyone must read" coming of age classic that you can just relax with before bed. When you're considering all the actual nitty gritty shit of what you need to do in order to become successful, it's always nice to have something to help you out with soul searching, in case you aren't 100% on law.
>>7533861
I understand. You are miserable in law as of now, yes? How do you not know, 5 years down the line, you may find yourself in love with it. Maybe, maybe not, but I can tell you that it may be too early for you to know if it was a waste or not.
>>7533633
Rough man, you could still drop out. Scholarship? You're very far in, but you'd still save 10s of thousands of dollars by dropping out of law school halfway through.
>>7533738
Please read this post. >>7533358 That's why we're interfering with his decision. Law school is a terrible decision for 95%+ of people. Law school is a joke as well, it needs to be 2 years instead of 3, and it needs be less theoretical/academic and more technical. Law school is a racket and its "professors" and "deans" are criminals.
Man, I remember back when I was a 20 year old law school sheep. I'm really interested in constitutional law and figured I'd go into that. Pffft, even though there are like 10 lawyers in America who argue constitutional issues--and they all graduated from Harvard or Yale in the 70s.
OP, why exactly do you want to go to law school and what kind of law do you want to practice?
As you asked for readings, please read this book, "Failing Law Schools" by Brian Tamanaha. i sincerely hope you change your mind about law school.
I hope we didn't scare you off, and there is still a possibility you could could be viable for law school if you're an LSAT whiz, but it's just not likely.
>>7533875
Fuck, completely missed that I started both of those paragraphs with "That being said..."
http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/02/27/faq-should-i-go-to-law-school/
Read this. It's a blog post by a guy who went to law school. It's pretty long, and I found it pretty interesting. He really breaks down the pros and cons. I know this wasn't really the advice you were looking for from us, but it may end being more useful.
Law school graduate here.
I will (sort of) echo the sentiments of the law school students who posted before me. Law school and the practice of law are pretty different than what most people expect, in my experience. I even have an older brother who was a licensed attorney for a year or two before I entered law school and I still didn't fully realize what I was getting myself into.
OP, my advice is to do A LOT of research before you committ to this path. Read extensively on the forums other anons suggested, etc. Visit a law school or two and sit it on multiple lectures in some of the classes you'd be sure to take (property, civil procedure, evidence, etc.). It isn't that law school is a horrible idea for everyone, and even if you go to a shit school and don't yet have the connections before going it doesn't necessarily mean you'll be screwed three years later, but like I said, these other anons have spoken pretty accurately about what it's like.
Remember what its like talking to a shoe salesman in a shoe store. Not a footlocker, but like an upscale place, and the sales guy is probably a bit better looking than you and doesn't have any of that retail-class supplicancy and really he just wants you to buy something or get the fuck out of the store but he's pulling every smarmy "how to win friends and influence people" trick on you until you crack one way or the other. Imagine your social life is composed 100% of these kinds of interactions. This is social life in law school.
>>7533911
did you find a job?
>>7533911
Oh, the one thing I wanted to disagree with from an earlier anon's post, don't worry so much about your undergrad GPA. As long as it's not awful, it is your LSAT that will be the primary factor in where you get accepted. I had a 2.7 or 2.8 when I applied to law schools (fucked around a lot my first two years) and a 168 LSAT, and I was accepted by George Washington, the #20 law school at the time. I also was given a half scholarship for the first two years at the school I actually went to which was ranked something like 53 at the time.
>>7533896
>Rough man, you could still drop out. Scholarship? You're very far in, but you'd still save 10s of thousands of dollars by dropping out of law school halfway through.
I have some scholarship money. I'll be about $30k (parents pay for my living expenses) in debt when all is said and done. I also have a job lined up at the firm I'm working at right now.
>>7533927
Yeah, high school english teacher. Never looked for a job in the legal field. Never even sat for the bar. If I had pursued it, I almost definitely would've had a job at my state's agency for healthcare administration. Did an internship there first semester of my third year, and they wrote me a great letter of rec when I left and told me to come see them after graduation. They also have a history of hiring their former interns if they do well in the internship.
>>7533930
are you from delaware
>>7533875
>I've always thought a law degree would be cool as fuck. And a JD would be able to land you something that pays pretty decently (though it may have nothing to do with law).
It's not cool as fuck. And it will not land you anything unrelated to law. You can practice law with a JD and that's it. It is not versatile. If you're not practicing law, a JD will probably actually hurt you. You will be seen as overqualified for many things and employers won't get why you're not just practicing law.
>>7533941
are you going to remain a teacher?
I mean, education isn't that terrible either. It's low salary, but it's a salary with benefits. Have you been totally turned off from law?
Do you still offer advice for LSAT's? I'd like to pick your brain
>>7533938
You lucked out big time. Good to hear.
Law school will turn you into a piece of shit, you will be unable of ever becoming a moral human being and you will never do anything of worth in your entire life. People will pat you in the back, and you will get money, but your dignity is all but lost if you don't divert your course right now and step away of that wretched place.
t. someone who just got a JD
>>7533953
Not necessarily true. A lot of big businesses see a JD as more useful than an MBA. Job requirements sometimes list that a candidate must have an MBA or JD. If nothing else, it shows you have some grade A critical thinking skills. There's also the political option, but that's not very viable. But yes, it will hurt you in getting most jobs.
>>7533988
lmao
>>7533993
I'm not even joking. Law school is a foul place, full of hacks and charlatans. It is really one of those places where almost everyone is a piece of shit.
>>7534010
On this note: law school is more similar to high school than it is university. Especially 1l.
>>7533960
Yeah, I'm teaching my favorite subject at my old high school, should be teaching AP within a couple years. I love it. And yeah, gradually became turned off by the legal field over the course of law school and interning/working in a few different areas.
My personal LAST advice. . .
Take a Kaplan course. Preferrably the faster paced course (where it's like two weeks shorter because you meet one more day each week) that they schedule to where it ends like 3 or 4 days before the June administration of the test. This means you'll start right after spring semester ends and you can dedicate more time to keep without worrying about school, plus it will all be fresh in your mind when you take the test without having to rely on yourself to continue prepping on your own. Its expesive (like 1200 when I did it back in 2010), but well worth it.
If you can't swing a Kaplan course, just get some quality keep books for each of the types of questions and for the test as a whole. Most difficult part at first will probably be the logic games, but if you learn the simple methods for attacking those questions (one of the biggest booms to Kaplan), those become the easiest. You can also find youtube videos and other shit online to learn that stuff, but I feel taking the course provides a better, more effective way to learn the material. Just like you could find all the m for your college classes in books and online, but autodidactic methods for those probably wouldn't be as effective either.
>>7530591
>I'm not trying to pick on you, but you sound like someone who is thoroughly unaware of the sorry state of law schools and the legal profession. Legal jobs have been decimated by automation and outsourcing. Yet, law schools still pump out almost double the number of graduates as there are jobs. Law schools/law professors are greedy crooks who make 6 figure salaries doing shit all work while their students are saddled with as much in debt. They play on both popular perceptions that law and being a lawyer is without a doubt lucrative and glamorous, as well as on the fears and uncertainties of many young people like you--English majors, philosophy majors, etc. who see law as a viable career path being someone who isn't in a science/tech major. (There's no math on the LSAT!)
I've spent the last 4 years doing odd jobs here and there trying to figure out what i want to do with my life. I screwed around and had fun, but it set me back school wise so now i'm playing catch up. as for why i picked law,i spent the past six months at a family owned firm filing papers, helping with depositions and sitting in on different cases. i honestly didn't think id be here at this point six months ago, or considering this career path. i'm not doing it because its glamorous, nor lucrative, i'm doing it because i want to help people. I'm doing it because of the lives i saw changed by events that were out of their control etc. I understand that this will not be easy, and i'm still preparing for it with the time that i have to do so. I've got some great people in my life trying to help me out, and im thankful for that. while i may not graduate debt free, i will be able to graduate and start working right away to help pay debts. as for my major, i'm doing English to help with the reading and writing that i will be doing for the rest of my schooling and career.
>There is no essential suggested reading for anyone who considers themselves "pre-law" other than those blogs (and many others) and then LSAT prep books and prep tests.
thanks, ill look into getting some prep books this week.
>Unless you have a job as an attorney secured through a close connection, going to law school is basically a very bad idea unless you get into Harvard, Yale, or Stanford--OR another top 14 Law school on a guaranteed full or else very sizable scholarship. This is not hyperbole.
I have a job secured for me as soon as i graduate.
>Buy a book of recent official LSAT prep tests. Take one, under real timed conditions, and just see where you're at with zero study. Then study the LSAT for 3 or so months and keep taking prep tests. If you're not scoring around a 170 you can most likely be certain that law school is not viable for you.
like i said above, ill be looking into that this week. thanks for all of this anon, it helped more than you know.
>>7533988
I'm the guy who graduated law school and is not an english teacher . . .
This is simply not true. One of my internships was with the Innocence Project. The guy who headed up our office was one of the best people I've ever met in my life. Has dedicated his life to noble causes and is still a cool fucking guy. If he wasn't appearing in court that day, he was liable to come to the office in blue jeans and a Phish shirt. I could list many other examples, but that's just one that stands out.
That said, most law school students/lawyers/law professors are real scumbags. Doesn't mean OP will end up one, though.
>>7533445
op here, please explain.
>>7532383
Niceeeee
>>7534010
>>7534026
OP, english teacher here again. These two posts are true.
Also, what is the job you have waiting for you when you graduate? Have you spent time shadowing someone who does that job? Spent time volunteering/working in that office/firm? Spent time shadowing whoever your boss will be?
Some more advice that will be of use to you down the road:
Lawyers' biggest complaints these days about recent law grads they hire are lack of abilities in legal writing and research. If/when you go to law school, spend time learning these skills, take extra classes (most schools have only one or at most two required writing and research classes during your 1I year but will offer advanced classes, classes that teach these skills as they relate to certain fields, etc. The agency I interned for told me that they wanted me to come seem them when I graduated in large part because my legal memos blew them away with how well written/researched they were.
>>7534044
*personal LSAT advice
>>7534044
Sorry about all the typos, I'm tired as fuck and still am not good with typing on touchscreen phones (and my phone's autocorrect is worthless)
>>7533861
op here.
>I wouldn't take any undergrad who says he's a "pre-law" seriously
thanks. I just started school again last year, and didn't know how to refer to where i am at this point with school. As for studying law, you're not wrong. i do not have a handle on what its like, but as for practicing law i have some idea of it. As i said to another anon, I've been working at a law firm for about 6 months now. I've gone from filing papers, to moving boxes, to helping with depositions. I'm excited to be back in school working towards the end goal of practicing law.
When did you realize that you're not happy studying law? What was the breaking point?
>>7534063
I am a lawyer at an intellectual property firm. What kind of firm is the family owned thingy and what kind of law are you looking to?
>I have a job secured for me as soon as i graduate
Good. Through whom? If it is not through family or a close friend of your family--I wouldn't rest completely easy.
Also, are you from a well off family? Will you be financed by your family if you undertake law school or not? Just because you supposedly have a job lined up, and that's good, will the job be very high paying? Will it allow you to not only manage your debt but also live comfortably with law school debt?
Just getting a job is half the battle. It also has to be gainful.
You have to see how well you do on the LSAT and ask yourself if law school is still worth the time, money and effort for you.
If your job is secured through your family or a family connection and you are either financed by your family and/or do well enough on the LSAT to get into a decent school and/or get good scholarship money-- then law might be a viable option for you.
>>7533896
>OP, why exactly do you want to go to law school and what kind of law do you want to practice?
I've been surrounded by lawyers all my life(family) and its always peaked my interest. Although if you were to tell 19 year old me that 3 years i would be working at a law firm and planning on law school i would laugh at you.
working at this firm has given me a small taste of the field. I see the lawyers exhausted and run ragged. I've spoken with a few of them who have told me a lot of what I've read in this thread, but I'm not deterred.
As for what law i want to practice, I was thinking Medical and Personal Injury, and if possible some copyright law.
>As you asked for readings, please read this book, "Failing Law Schools" by Brian Tamanaha. i sincerely hope you change your mind about law school.
I'll check it out anon.
>I hope we didn't scare you off, and there is still a possibility you could could be viable for law school if you're an LSAT whiz, but it's just not likely
I'm actually happy that there is so much information being put out here against me going through with law school. While i can guarantee you i am not a LSAT whiz, it doesn't mean i wont keep working towards what i want.
>>7533913
Well, I'm excited now.
>>7533911
thanks for the advice. as my sophmore year comes to a close i'll have ample oppurtinity to take time to check out lectures, and review forums.
as for your reply about your GPA, its relieving. my current GPA is 2.6 at the moment because of my screwing around during my time fresh out of high school.
i'm a 2nd year associate at a v10. essentially, do not go to law school unless you go to a t14.
if you want more information, top-law-schools.com/forums is the best source for information
other than that, there is really nothing that you can read to prepare you for law school. i mean, i guess people who had just done their reading as pre-law were a little more familiar with the terminology and the big cases in con law, but other than that, there was no real advantage to coming in with absolutely zero knowledge. i remember being a 1L and writing notes like "google certiorari" or not even knowing how many circuits there were. basically read whatever the fuck you want before going to law school as far as actual books goes.
some people recommend "getting to maybe," but that only really helps if you're bad at tests and you can read it during your first semester of law school.
glhf
>>7534157
Personal Injury and Medical. The past cases I've helped with have done mostly with malpractice or improper dosage of medications resulting in blindness or other disabilities.
It is through a family member who i am currently working for, doing odds and ends around the office. As for my family being well off, the family who offered me the job are well off. They offered to help with some of the debt, and as for the rest, that is up to me.
I feel like I would be able to live with my debt, comfortably, i'm not 100% on.
as far as the LSAT, i will be looking into grabbing practice and past tests and doing them this upcoming week.
thanks for the kind words anon.
>>7533930
>>7534191
Sorry to burst your bubble, but GPA is key. LSAT is more important, but for any of the top schools you'll need both stats to be high (GW is not a top school). There are only a couple T14 schools that will even look at you with a GPA of less than 3.3, check out lawschoolnumbers for more details.
>>7534198
I'm also a 2nd year associate in Biglaw, I've found it surprisingly bearable so far, hope you feel the same.
>>7534254
you can get lucky. I got into a t14 with a slightly above average lsat (for my school) and a 3.1ish GPA, which numerically put me way out of contention. Apparently the admissions people loved my essay (it wasn't about anything substantive so it must've just been my writing) and I got in the first wave at my first choice.
>>7534266
I'm glad it worked out for you. I'm betting that the school that let you in was Duke, Northwestern, Georgetown, or Cornell, which is what I meant by the couple T14 schools that won't immediately throw away a sub-3.3 GPA.
>>7534157
Can I ask about your work at an intellectual property firm? I've been working as a glorified copy boy at a labor law firm for a few months while debating if I want to go to law school. If I wanted to do labor law I would have a guaranteed partner track job, assuming my father didn't keel over before I pass the bar, but I can't help feel I would be more interested in copyright and intellectual property.
>>7534254
I know GW fell in the rankings some at least the few years after, but like I said, it was ranked #20 at that time. I didn't apply to any other schools ranked higher than the one I went to, so can't say for sure how good of a school I could've gotten in to, but I sincerely doubt your supposition that a 3.3 or higher is needed. Simply put, GPA is not key. I looked at those websites when I was applying, too, they are total bullshit. OP, definitely work to get your GPA up as much as possible before you apply, but if you can get a high LSAT, at least upper 160s to 170ish, you'll be fine. The previous work at a firm will help, too. Essentially, they want people who will succeed in law school and be employed as soon as possible after, because this is what boosts their rankings and in turn their bottom line. Also, if you are that confident you have a job lined up, the school really doesn't matter. Hell, my brother went to a tier 1 school and lost out on jobs to people who went to tier 4 schools because he didn't know anyone in the market where he was seeking employment (went with his wife across the country after school because she did have a kickass job waiting for her after law school and he didnt) and because those graduated of shitty schools did.
>tfw my parents have 30-40 years in law each and have morning coffee with very highly placed judges and nationally famous lawyers who throw out nepotistic free jobs and incredible opportunities like candy
>tfw groomed for life to go into law
>tfw perfect GPA and major for it
>tfw not going into law
>tfw the looks on my parents' faces
Some more advice for applying to law schools:
This is really basic, but just in case nobody told you yet, be ready to apply as soon as humanly possible when admissions windows open (somewhere in August or September for many schools, no later than October for most). And I mean ready to have your application 100% complete: transcripts, personal statement/essays, LSAT scores in hand, letters of rec ready to go, ducking everything. Law schools work on rolling admissions, meaning the earlier you apply, the better chance you have to be accepted. Especially with the lower GPA, this will at least slightly help increase your chances at being accepted to whatever school you want to go to.
And seriously, don't listen to the guy saying less than 3.3 means you can forget about being accepted to a top-14 school except for a handful (which with his own posts includes at least 4 of those 14 anyway, so his shit really is fucking pointless). Like I said, it is all about how you will do in law school, will you be able to contribute to shit like moot court and law review, and most importantly will you be employed right away and be successful in your career. Law schools are a business, anon, for-profit institutions, so they want to know you will help their bottom line. Your GPA doesn't say a whole lot about that compared to other factors. So while it is somewhat important (not saying to not worry about it at all and blow off your classes, still try to improve your GPA if you can), don't swear it as much as that anon is telling you.
And again, doesn't sound like it will really matter for you anyway, if you have that job locked in like you say. And even if you dont, if you make connections through jobs/internships while in school, it still won't matter. For the vast majority of law students, their career will not hinge on what school they went to. Fuck, one of my old high school friends went to Ave Maria, literally one of the shittiest law schools in the country, graduated last spring and is making buku money right now. And he had no family or family friends to hook him up. Did it on his own starting with an internship first year, now an attorney at that firm.
>>7534272
i'm the v10. i went to uva/michigan/penn with a 2.7/176. non-traditional though. what you are saying is definitely common wisdom, but it's not set in stone if the applicant is actually different. the problem is that most law school applicants are unable to realistically evaluate themselves.
>>7534254
i like work pretty well because the partner i do most of my work for is great in terms of letting me work from home etc. so long as i do my shit. i don't think it's sustainable, but i can put in a few more years.
>>7534289
what he is saying is that 20 is not highly ranked as far as law schools go. only the top 14 schools are really credited. that said, i do know two GW grads from my year that ended up with fedgov jobs that are fairly hard to get, but it's pretty risky. they have like a 55% employment rate (not including school funded jobs or underemployment).
OP here.
for those who took the LSAT, what was the writing assignment about when you took it?
>>7534333
He is making that money btw, because of the connections he made not just with that firm. To make a crazy long story short, he put himself in a position to bring that firm a shitload of money with clients (one in particular, a major international financial service firm), that will be giving them business for years to come.
>>7534344
I get that, but as I've said to that other anon, depending on the situation, your likelihood at being employed after graduation generally relies on other factors much more than where you went. I know the job market is still pretty shitty (not nearly as bad as it was about 8ish years ago, but still bad), but it really is all about the connections you make and the reputation you build for yourself while in school. I went to a school that was something like 47 in the country when I graduated, and the students who busted their asses in school pretty much all had at least decent jobs within months of graduation. Will they be paying back their loans for long fucking time? Sure, but they're making enough money to start paying them back while maintaining at least a comfortable lifestyle.
Also your dubs bow to my trips.
>>7534361
who knows, it doesn't even matter lol
on torrent sites (pirate bay at the time) there used to be a huge pack of all the practice tests. take all of them timed (i think after 40 they changed the style a bit so 40-80 were where it was at, but that's still a lot of practice tests to get down on). that and used the Power LSAT Bible or something for logic games. after you take a taste, score it and go over the problems you got wrong in detail. for logic games, there are usually youtube videos explaining all the old logic games. watch those for the ones you don't get right.
>>7530591
lmao
>>7534369
sure, this may be true, but this has way more success if you hit a hometown university and go to a hometown firm. UW in Seattle, UT in Texas, etc. i mean i believe you, my friend went to a local school, didn't even hustle that hard, and still ended up with a fedgov job (albeit ~8 months after graduation). i know another guy who went to some low ranked school that got into a local midlaw firm making 80-90k. problem is he works the same hours as me. so, you better be hustling hard, and even then, there is no guarantee and it's a huge risk comparative to going to a t14. i believe your anecdotes are real and mine are too, but numbers don't lie, just google law school transparency for the real employment stats of any law school for the past 5 years.
>>7534361
Don't remember, but that's the easiest part by far. Kaplan teaches you how to get a top score in like 5 minutes.
Basically, you'll get a question that asks you to take one position or the other. Pick one. Doesnt matter which. First paragraph, answer the question directly (just restate the fucking question in your own words) and give your answer (should you build the restaurant in the downtown area, or the spot on the edge of town?), briefly stating the main reasons why (these will be given to you in the material; downtown because there are more people there for other shit like the theatre already and they need a place to eat, or the place on the edge of town because one of the desires is a quieter ambience which that will provide, what the fuck ever). Fourth paragraph, briefly state why the other position is stupid (downtown already has a bunch of restaurants to compete with vs. no competition in the other location, or it will be hard to draw customers that far away from the city center). Last paragraph, very briefly restate what you said in intro paragraph.
They just want to see that you can make a claim, support it with relevant details, and shoot down the other side.
>>7534395
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was getting at. Go to a school in the area where you want to practice, work hard, make the connections, and you'll be fine. Yeah, employment rates are pretty low (I'll take your word for it on that 55% number although I would've expected it to be just a bit higher, maybe 65ish), but again, the bulk of that 45% I'm sure is those who didn't put in the work, didn't make the connections, and/or are trying to find work in Miami or San Francisco after going to school in fucking D.C.
>>7534401
hahaha holy shit it's exactly like the GRE's analytical writing section
the GRE's analytical when i took it was eerily similar to your example (should steve open a health food restaurant in a town full of fat fucks?), and all the advice for the GREs was basically "statistically speaking, long-ass answers with very good english get high marks." i imagine LSATs come down harder on clean argumentative structure but it's still just as asinine and that's implicit in the GRE anyway.
depressing, at least for grad school the GREs seemed like a formality, but people talk up the LSATs so much and that's still all it is.
>>7534395
>>7534427
And also, the firms/offices want to know you'll stick around for a while. What they don't want is to worry they are going to invest in you, train you, etc., just to have you move on in 2 or 3 years. They want you to stick around for the long haul. Building those connections, having the roots established in the area help with this. Whether you went to a good school or not doesn't.
>>7534444
Trips before, now quads? OP, you definitely gotta trust me now.
>>7534436
the written portion is not graded and no one cares, it's only to make compare against your personal statement in case there are allegations of fraud. it is literally not graded and not factored into your score. all that matter are the three question sections.
Top 5 school 2L here. Average guy with respectable numbers (but certainly not good enough to get into my school on my own). I'm a legacy babby--both my mother and grandfather being graduates of the same law school--and donors. They didn't even force me into law school. It was my own decision. I can say that I don't like law school and the people I'm surrounded by. Especially at this elite of a school. God everyone is such a tool. I have made no friends here. I basically just hang out with my gf whom I met on OKCupid lol.
>>7534502
This is a bit disengenuous. It is technically ungraded, and many schools will merely glance at it, but you should still do a good job of it. Like I said in my earlier post, it is ridiculously easy to do it well, and it will be included in your application, therefore will be a reflection of you. It also is frequently the first page of your application packet, so if you just bullshit it, scribble down two lines of shit, that is the first impression the admissions board will have of you. Even a give second glance will be enough to tell them you didn't take it seriously, and that's their first impression. Not good. Do a few minutes of research and verify for yourself that my formula for a solid response to the essay section is correct, and just take the time to write out a decent answer.
>>7534520
i memed around didnt take it seriously and it had zero effect on anything
>>7534529
>it had zero effect
How can you possibly know that? Also, it just doesn't make any sense. If it always made literally zero difference, why the fuck would it be there. It costs money to manufacture it, it must be there for a reason. Personally, I think it is really mostly for those borderline cases where schools are deciding who will get their last slots and candidates are equal everywhere else, but it obviously has to have at least some impact some of the time, or LSAC wouldn't waste the time and money on it. Also, you're an idiot for fucking around on something that cannot hurt you to do well on and is so easy to do well; with this being the only information available to me as to your character, if I was asked to make an assumption about you I would say you are more likely to make poor/reckless decisions. It is by far the easiest part of the entire application process and cannot hurt you, why would you not just do a good job?
>>7534557
didnt care much about it at the time - i thought it unlikely that id be going to law school at all
if they were read (all the way through) by anyone I would not have got into the schools I did
>>7534689
>If they were read (all the way through) by anyone I would not have got into the schools I did
Jeez, what the fuck did you write?
>>7530591
desu senpai
