I didn't get it.
Don't bother going any further.
>>7520014
If you don't get this, literally every single philosopher will be inaccessible to you.
You can't even start with the Greeks. I feel so sorry for you.
>>7520014
Good. The old Greeks are completely waste of time.
>>7520014
You don't have to, no one does really until they have mulled it all over, thought about it for years and then had experiences that relate. Keep at it, think of it as storing stuff up your brain can refer back to when it has better processes to understand it or when life throws something at you that relates.
>>7520014
Don't listen to the rest of the idiots in this thread, they likely don't understand it at all.
When you're done reading it and can recount meaningfully the main doctrines then you should move on. A lot of it is speculative and a lot of it can only be understood in the context of Greek religion. Also, an understand of philosophy after is almost always necessary to comprehend the depth of the pre-socratics.
Lastly, you're never done with anyone and there will be a lot that you read which you will feel the same about not on your first or second read through but your third. That is, "I don't get it".
if you actually read the book youre already more well-versed in philosophy than ~95% of this board, possibly more. you're good mang keep it up.
>>7520014
Why don't you tell us specifically what you don't get?
>Thales: What if all of the physical world is ultimately made out of tiny bits of the same kind of thing? Water seems to be crucial to life, so maybe that single thing is water.
>Anaximines: That's a good idea; but air seems to be more rarefied and simpler than water, and we see all things surrounded by air-filled space, so I bet this basic kind of thing is air.
>Anaximander: There are so many different kinds of things in the physical world, the basic building block that everything's made out of must be some kind of blank, ever-reformable, indeterminate stuff, that produces the variety of natural things by its different possible combinations and concentrations.
>Anaxagoras: There's some fundamental mind, some cosmic intellect, that we can't explain the physical world without.
>Heraclitus: The universe itself is like a thing with a mind; it operates by a kind of plan, a kind of reason - and a rule it constantly displays is that all things are in never-ending change, and that tireless movement is essential to existence. So if we have to think of the basic stuff that the universe is made out of, think of something that is as constantly changing and fluid as fire.
>Parmenides: In truth, change is an illusion, and reason can let us know that all existence is determinate as it is; it is a stable, whole, unitary thing, since the very concept of "is not" is unintelligible.
>Empedocles: The physical world is always changing, and its turgid development is the result of two fundamental forces: love and strife, cohesion and dissolution, order and destruction. Caught up in and volleyed between these polar forces are the four basic elements that make up all physical things: earth, air, fire and water, materials of a never-ending process that fluctuates between maximal complexity and maximal dispersion.
>Pythagoras: The basic stuff of the physical world is non-physical and mathematical: everything is ultimately made of numbers and their relations. Your soul will survive the death of your body as it passes into a new body, and you shouldn't fucking eat beans.
Does anyone have an epub of it? I tried converting the pdf using calibre but the result is pretty bad like usual.
>>7520096
this is good. Many thanks
>>7520096
Good post.
>>7520096
>and you shouldn't fucking eat beans.
why not?
>>7520213
> A central tenant of the Pythagorean belief system was the transmigration of the soul. This included the transmigration of human souls into the bodies of animals. It is perhaps for this reason that Pythagoras strictly forbid the consumption of meat, resulting in his followers becoming some of the earliest known vegetarians.
> A strange side note of the Pythagorean diet is that they were forbidden to eat beans. The reason behind this is not entirely known. A funny anecdote tells us that Pythagoras believed that a human being lost a part of his or her soul whenever passing gas.
http://classicalwisdom.com/cult-of-pythagoras/
> Perhaps the most famous of the Pythagorean dietary restrictions is the prohibition on eating beans, which is first attested by Aristotle and assigned to Pythagoras himself (Diogenes Laertius VIII. 34). Aristotle suggests a number of explanations including one that connects beans with Hades, hence suggesting a possible connection with the doctrine of metempsychosis. A number of later sources suggest that it was believed that souls returned to earth to be reincarnated through beans (Burkert 1972a, 183). There is also a physiological explanation. Beans, which are difficult to digest, disturb our abilities to concentrate. Moreover, the beans involved are a European vetch (Vicia faba) rather than the beans commonly eaten today. Certain people with an inherited blood abnormality develop a serious disorder called favism, if they eat these beans or even inhale their pollen. Aristoxenus interestingly denies that Pythagoras forbade the eating of beans and says that “he valued it most of all vegetables, since it was digestible and laxative” (Aulus Gellius IV. 11.5). The discrepancies between the various fourth-century accounts of the Pythagorean way of life suggest that there were disputes among fourth-century Pythagoreans as to the proper way of life and as to the teachings of Pythagoras himself.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pythagoras/
>>7520035
What about Heraclitus?
>>7520096
R A R E
A
R
Epost
>>7520096
You forgot to mention Anaximenes was the first to include movement and conscience in his primal cause (pneuma or breathing and psuche or soul). Albeit still in a very abstract way.
I just started listening to the Republic on an audio book. Should I begin further back with the Greek philosophers or is the Republic a good introduction?
>>7520014
Does anybody have a downloadable link for a pdf? Would be much appreciated. Anon desperate to start.
>>7521181
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=5A16546F7174F3FF9FE635A79B58E421
>>7521181
Bookmark this libgen website.
>>7521186
Thanks mate, but I can't do torrents. Need a direct d/l
>>7521198
Have you tried all mirrors? I can upload somewhere else if you want.
>>7521201
Thank you so much anon. I sincerely appreciate it. Bookmarked.
just move on and keep reading. you aren't going to get a lot of things
it goes like this:
don't understand, kinda understand, nope don't understand, don't understand, and so on. then one day all the shit you've read congeals itself and leads you towards an exciting line of thought, an 'original' idea, a 'deeper' thinking, seeing the LIGHT. that should your only goal
don't get memed by the pretenders on here, pseudo scholars with surface level 'expertise' and UNDERSTANDING of every complex thought system in the history of the world. they are like the kid in your 2nd grade class who knows all the states but ain't never been a country mile outside of Oaks Creek, Indiana population 300
>>7521333
>what dumb people actually tell themselves
>>7520014
It's a history book. It's full of commentary. I don't see how you can not get it.
I love how most of people in this thread just saw "philosophy" somewhere and started spitting vague advice that's not related at all
>>7521795
prove him wrong
>>7520984
Pythagoras didn't ENTIRELY forbid meat, he just claimed it clouded the reasoning faculties. With that being said, judges were advised not to consume meat before a trial in order for those who appeared before them to receive a fair decision.
Can someone briefly explain to me the philosophy of the Stoics and the Epicurists?
>>7520096
/thread
These are the main takeaways as far as arche is concerned with the Presocratics. Once you've got these, you can read a little bit more closely and pick up some philosophy belonging to other categories beyond physics.
>>7522177
the only sane one.
>>7522264
>prove me* wrong
fixed that for you
>>7522584
but im not him tho
