>2016
>not having a vanity press
>not making money out of books delusional faggots write
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanity_press
whats your excuse?
Also where i live there is no copyright.Give me ideas on how to make mad cash with my publishing house. Any recommendations on publishing business models are also appreciated.
>>7517498
I worked for one for 7 years. At one point I was sending out 2 million emails a week, mostly to college professors and students, as well as people in professional organizations. We had servers in hungary and costa rica controlling slave servers in the US (spam services catch non-us IPs)
We would target people with humanities degrees, and publish a book a year, and then send them a PDF of their book unless they upgraded. Book costs were 200-400 a copy and guaranteed submitted to the library of congress. I ran their IT and marketing department, and actually created their books with microsoft word and acrobat portable (pirated). Made 50-60k a year before I quit, since I had a kid and they had moved towards targeting linkedin profiles.
Taking questions.
>>7517509
Why did you quit? How do i learn spamming? I tired many forums but details were kept in shadows everywhere i went.
>Book costs were 200-400 a copy
I'm doing it in minimum 1000 copies. Should i reduce the numbers and go into digital printing instead of offset printing?
I do the layouts in Indesign.
>>7517498
>>7517509
I'd be interested in a conversation about starting a publishing house with a goal of being respected and reputable in the industry, but not really interested in starting a vanity press.
Although, I admit, a lot of the authors of the 19th and early 20th century paid to publish their work. And it's not as morally or ethically wrong as many immediately think.
>>7517530
Spamming is dead because gmail filters were hugely upgraded in 2010. I went from a 1/100 conversion to like 1/10,000, ie 2000 leads a week to like ...2? It was a bad time, I felt like id let my boss down. The books werent published like you are saying, it was people creating their own "works" and us publishing them on pdf. We also did Who's Who type stuff and made people shitty personal websites. Basically we did whatever we could to keep current credit cards.
I quit because my wife finished medical school and I hated the work.
>>7517530
Also, Blackhatworld forums will instruct you on how to be a better "marketer" including more modern means.
>>7517544
So youre a NEET now?
>>7517553
Blackhatworlds is a joke, their techniques are always expired and they only share shit that is not working anymore. I know alot about marketing, design, webdesign and hosting but i want to know details like place of the spam servers and scripts used for each email service and so on. Also do you have any recs on what can i do to make more money? Here i can publish anything that is published in Europe or America. No copyright here.
>>7517571
Stay at home dad / Neet yes. BHW is a pretty good resource to contact people, I met all of our best contractors on there, and learned lots.
If I was going to start a vanity publisher right now, I would get a business loan with low interest under an llc, contact a cheap East Asian printer, and contact a proven LinkedIn or Facebook keyword marketer by testing out their lead returns and cost. The main thing to take away from bhw is that with keyword context marketing you have to do tons of split campaigns and have the capital for trial and error in bulk.
>>7517585
>East Asian printer
Im almost near there. My biggest problem is the price of paper. When it comes to printing more than half the money goes for fucking paper. How did americans survive in the Golden age of Comics? It was great depression back then and nobody had money to buy books. I was going to search about this but i forgot. Now im going for it.
>>7517603
My bosses were criminals, and had numerous complaints at the state attorney and BBb. We would run people's cards for monthly "royalty" payments and charge them for editing fees which were basically me using spell checker. They also Maintained the most unholy sales floor of amoral monsters ever. Their taxed income was around 1.6 mil a year.
Starting a legit business would be much harder, but I suppose with a really good printer and binder and a warehouse it could be done.
Starting a reAl publisher
Wouldn't be lying if I said I have thought about it.
Or about arranging a short poem/story contest in which best 100 works would get published in a book those excited shitwriters would buy. The winner would get some miserable quantity of money and 50 copies of the book so he can sell them.
>>7517600
Oh shit i forgot the most important part
Merchant accounts. For vanity publishers banks and merchants for credit car purchases require a very very high reserve amount because of all the chargebacks, its a fucking running battle. Paypal doesnt work because it will seize all your funds and shut you down for months.
We were using credit card merchants from israel and the balkans after a certain point. Figure that shit out first.
>>7517498
Because I'd feel shit about it.
>>7517635
I saw myself as punishing the sin of vanity.
Also, most of our employees were MFA grads making poverty pay, they sounded literate on the phones and my bosses knew they wouldn't get another job.
>>7517498
OP look up "General Books LLC". They are a "publisher" of open copyright material, usually OCR'd with bad quality.
Its an interesting business model, you can read about it on ripoffreport (which is also a good way to read about vanity methodology"
>>7517679
>In 2009, Books LLC and its sister imprint General Books LLC produced respectively 224,460 and 11,887 titles.
lol. wut?
>>7517684
They automate a process where they retrieve a book from google books, OCR it, and sell a flimsy paperback
Paper media's death cant come fast enough.
>>7517688
I accidentally bought one of those from Amazon once. Their text recognition software left something to be desired, the majority of it was complete gibberish.
I got a refund.
>>7517700
>implying self publishing beastiality erotica on amazon is any better...
>>7517700
The visceral experience I get from a physical book forces me to focus on it more, but I understand your sentiment.
>>7517704
Publishers have overstayed their welcome, just like in music. We would be better off with a straight author-to-consumer link.
>>7517712
I know what you mean, but that probably wont be an issue for the iPad generation.
>>7517714
I would agree if there was this great independent literature scene that was reviewed in journals and such, but I feel like it will be a cold day in hell before we see acclaimed literature "published" on Amazon winning national and international prizes and discussed on NPR.
Self published success stories seem destined to be pushed by stuff like Pinterest and will resemble 50 Shades or Twilight
>>7517714
I disagree. I think there's value to someone picking and choosing what's good enough and what's not good enough for them to publish. I think there's value in agents and managers choosing who they decide to represent or not represent. Of course there will always be fights between the artist and their agent/manager/publisher, but I think there's value in trusting people to say, or at least listen to an opinion about, what's done and what still needs work. I think this is why the avant-garde and the "fine art" world of today gets such a bad rep and is in such a clusterfuck disarray. No one is allowed to say, "dude, what the fuck are you doing? that fucking sucks." The acceptable response to that has become, "you just don't get it," or "what do you know about art," or whatever other bullshit you can think of to dismiss criticism.
I'd agree with you if criticism was in a better state, but it may be in an even worse state with no direction to turn it around.
>>7517726
Its a matter of time before it happens. You can say its already happening in some places.
“Also, we have a best-sellers list on Amazon that changes hourly. At any given time, 20 of the top 100 in India are self-published titles. This shows the future potential in India, where we entered only about a year ago. In other countries where KDP has been around for slightly longer, we see those numbers even higher. So, 33% of the top 100 books in the US are self-published, and in Germany, I think it is 50%.”
http://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-news/amazon-thinks-self-publishing-is-the-key-to-growth-in-india
>>7517742
Sure, there's some value in it, but the incentives that support the industry (The need for boatloads of money to print all those books, and the consumer trust in the publishing house for fear of wasting their money on expensive books) disappear with the introduction of cheap as dirt works through online self-publishing.
Any more credit given to the publishers as controllers of quality is just letting someone else decide whats good for you, when a publisher prints a book for commercialization, he is saying "I think" this is good, and he is even putting his money behind it, but that's a sizable leap away from say, a doctor saying that apples are good for you.
I'd rather see a masterpiece born out of a monkeys with typewriters situation in which self publishing is incredibly popular and widespread, than through "this is no good, change this, add this".
>>7517600
have you ever seen a golden age comic? the paper is below newspaper quality
>>7517776
I agree with you in some ways, but I still disagree in a lot of ways.
>when a publisher prints a book for commercialization, he is saying "I think" this is good, and he is even putting his money behind it, but that's a sizable leap away from say, a doctor saying that apples are good for you.
Yes, but when somebody does say, "I think this is good and I'm going to put my money behind it," is important when everyone knows apples are good. Everyone knows books are good for you.
Everyone knows apples are good for you, but if a highly respected doctor, one with a track record of success, says, "I think this apple is really good and you should definitely eat this apple right here. It's worth it." Then that makes me more interested in that particular apple.
Of course, after the fact we can debate the taste, color, feel, look, and overall quality of the apple and what makes it special forever. And it's particularly important if that doctor went to an apple orchard and looked through all the other shitty apples to find this particular apple.
>I'd rather see a masterpiece born out of a monkeys with typewriters situation in which self publishing is incredibly popular and widespread, than through "this is no good, change this, add this".
We already have masterpiece's born out of monkeys with typewriters right now. We are the monkeys with typewriters. We have masterpieces. This is the system that's formed the monkeys with typewriters situation already.
Just wanted to chime in with a slight clarification regarding traditional publishers, and the assumption of their standing as arbitrators of quality.
Their function is not:
>I think this is good and I'm going to put my money behind it.
Their actual method is:
>I think this will make more money if I put my money behind it.
Seriously, get your heads our of your idealism.
So, were opening up "4leaf publishing"? Opening titles are The Lilliad, Katawa Shoujo: Paper Edition and the ALOTITT series.
>>7517847
Just wanted to chime in that I don't think anyone was being idealistic and both arguments are valid and they were at least having a decent conversation.
>>7517847
Of course there will be stuff published that will be guaranteed moneymakers. That allows them to publish stuff that they think is good but is not guaranteed to be successful.
It's like you people don't understand economics at all.
>>7517714
>leaving what's successful up to the pleb masses
Fuck off
>>7517934
>It's like you people don't understand economics at all.
This is /lit/ in 2015, it's filled with retarded idealistic leftist teens.
>>7518068
I suppose. I'm a relative newfag of an older age, looking for more interesting places on the internet. I don't know. I expected more from here, I guess. That was probably my first mistake. To be fair, if there were better elsewhere, I probably wouldn't be here.
>>7518090
4chan is the best place on the internet if youre looking for free speech. you can never say things you can say here anywhere else. thats it.
>>7518097
Also to be fair, that's pretty damn good.
>>7517898
Is katawa shojo copyrighted
>>7518090
I came to 4chan for /trv/ originally (I heard it was an awesome board for travel advice, and it is. I've been using it for 2+ years now) but I always read literature for fun and dabbled in philosophy. I'm not going to lie; while the board itself is extremely immature, people's taste on here is actually really good. I like that you can discuss Gaddis, Bellow, Pynchon & people actually engage in the conversation. I haven't really found a good group like this for literature on the internet (yet). Then again, 4chan has /pol/ and /b/ which attract the worst people known to man.
Daily reminder that self-publishing gave us garbage like The Martian while publishers gave us DFW
>>7517498
>Also where i live there is no copyright.
Where do you live?
>>7518139
Didn't Reddit give that book a big push it needed to break out?
As of last Thanksgiving it had sold 180,000 physical copies, I believe? With the movie this year, that number's probably much bigger.
>>7518203
Yes, exactly why populism is terrible for the arts.
Only the educated elite should have any sway.
>>7518342
I wouldn't say that entirely, but I don't disagree that populism is terrible for the arts. Do you agree that the current model is the best we've come up with (or has developed, on its own) so far? I think the argument could be made that the internet is, at the same time, both destroying and opening new possibilities in art. Obviously everything is going through this period of change and everything will come out looking different, however, I don't think it will be as different to the extreme as some expect.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, no, not all gatekeepers are good, but not all gatekeepers are bad.
>>7517847
If it isnt good it wont sell m8.
>>7518132
Your choice is either immaturity or political correctness on the internet I believe. The later is even more deadly for discussion.
>>7518531
>mfw you actually believe this
>>7517810
The point of the doctor allegory is that is doesn't apply to literature or art in general, because the doctor has objective knowledge regarding how good an apple is for you. The publisher has purely subjective knowledge (and a profit motive that may or may not be in conflict with the development of the art like >>7517847 said). Having publishers in such a strong position of control over the medium is detrimental to the same, you can look at the music business for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZazEM8cgt0
Wouldn't it be better if everything and everyone was published? That's the real monkey with a typewriter scenario, because for it to work you need a whole lot of monkeys, many more than the ones being published and self published right now.
>>7518612
Prove a book is bad mufuka
>>7518372
All of the old guard gatekeepers are good.
>>7518679
>Taste is objective.
>i-its not just opinions guys, i swear
Holy shit will the humanities ever stop being such cucks.
Daily reminder that books are not made with you in mind.
>>7518620
I think we're misunderstanding each other and I want to emphasize that I don't entirely disagree.
I particularly liked the Zappa video and I agree with argument. I do think that some sort of direct author-to-consumer link would work, but I think something like >>7517726 described needs to be in place before anything like that is successful. And who has the money and time to do such a thing?
Artists, for the most part, are horrible sales people. And by sales, I don't just mean they'd struggle to sell a copy of a book, I mean they'd even struggle to convince someone to read something free and then tell their friends.
At some point, someone has to talk about money. Who what where when and how does anyone make money at all? Is art gone in the future? Is everything art? Are artists expected to live in poverty? Do we go back to artist patronage? Who are the patrons? Companies? Governments? Religions?
I think the Patreon model is interesting and has potential to be the future, but we'll have to wait and see. One of my problems with the Patreon model is the promise of funds when the artist releases something. That drives artists to release faster or unfinished or uninspired just to make a quick buck. Admitted, not that they didn't do that under the old model.
I guess I don't have the answers. In any case, what a time to be alive?
>>7518719
Well yes, I agree that the scene needs to grow before the cultural shift to self-publishing. That was my first statement, I can't wait.
>>7518733
My only problem is who sorts through all the shit? And how are they different than an agent or a manager with experience in the field selling it to someone with the funds to publish it?
Is a respected lit magazine the answer? Reviewing the work of the self-published masses? Who finds the works to review? How are they any different from agents or managers?
So many questions.
>>7518786the market
The fundamental difference is that everything is published and then reviewed, instead of reviewed and maybe never published.
>>7518818
Do you really trust the amount of stars on goodreads or amazon or whatever site to be the judge of quality?
>>7518845
My personal opinion and taste doesn't matter, everybody has one.
In any case, every book would be available for me to judge, it sure beats a publisher making the decision for me.
>>7518858
>In any case, every book would be available for me to judge, it sure beats a publisher making the decision for me.
I can agree with that.
>>7518718
Read Hume you fucking pleb.
>>7519273
>Namedropping without quoting a passage or referencing the specific work
Nigga if you want out of the conversation just stop posting, no need to have the last word.
>>7518097
>you can never say things you can say here anywhere else. thats it.
As long as you let them have your IP address. Try posting something here using TOR or any kind of proxy outside of perhaps a VPN.
>>7519777
Not my fault you don't know anything about philosophy of aesthetics, fucking faggot pleb.
its not 2016 yet you turd
hitler was great though
>thread is about making cash out of /lit/
>libtard liberal art grads shitposting from coffeeshops about self-publishing vs getting published
you cant stop being cucks for 10 minutes can you?
>>7520008
>cuck
Do you even know what that word you like to overuse means? No, you don't.
>>7519777
on the standard of taste
>>7520193
words lose their meaning and acquire new meanings throughout the time, pleb scum. read a book some time.
>>7520008
cuckservative detected
>>7518629
Love me like you do, love me like you do....
>>7520798
What's the new meaning then? Please enlighten me.
>>7517716
It will. They just wont know it
>>7518122
Yeah but what are they gonna do about it?
