It appears to me, clearly and distinctively, that the majority (or a half, at least) of modern and postmodern literature relies heavily on the literary device of intertextuality, which is - in brief - 'building your text on the basis of another, rather significant, text'. For example - Ulysses by James Joyce exemplifies the use of a classic text (in this case - Odyssey) in order to create a brand new work of art by changing the context and, supposedly, fragmenting the meaning of the whole text.
Another example of this is the implementation of the medieval romance novels inside of Don Quixote or the rich system of references inside Faust by Goethe (which then served, alongside other works, as a role model for Doctor Faustus) and the memetic masterpiece known as Hypersphere (yes, this is a serious remark).
According to my observations - literature is heading towards the prevalence of complex, intertextual and the inferiority of original and 'crude' works. Am I blind or dumb, or is it really nearly impossible to develop a work of art that is purely new and free from the zeitgeist of intertextuality? Is it possible to create a new epic nowadays?
>tfw you want to say "textual field" so badly
>tfw you want to make an entire shitty pretentious post just so you can include the phrase "textual field" somewhere in it like a big gaudy gem in a carolingian crown
>tfw the above reference was intertextual
BUMPING THIS THREAD LIKE DURIEL IN ACT 2
>>7510226
a big part of this is simply that original ideas dont really exist
the entire canon is like one big conversation in which people continuously step on the heads of those who came before, and i definitely don't think this is new. the only reason we can call Homer original, is because we cant see what inspired him
Ask yourself this: has there ever been a time when intertextuality wasn't a thing?
>>7510571
Well, theoretically, at the beginning of All things there HAD to be an original idea. Be it logos or the word of Jahwe, the fact is, that it is an original one.
Yes, Homer is just a poet who happened to put a lot of folk tales together. But what about some original thinkers like Socrates, who - by despising the ideas of sophists - gave birth to a whole philosophical school of Absolute values?
Also, a Joyce quote: "The movements which work revolutions in the world are born out of the dreams and visions in a peasant's heart on the hillside." Are folk tales the "birth of tragedy" then?
>>7510226this clown triggers me.reee. Dumb Gombroposter.
>>7510751
They rediscovered ideas, they didn't invent them.
All knowledge exists before it's discovered by man.
As time passes, we discover more and more things. If we keep good records we forget less of the things we discover.
At some distant point in the future, the well will run dry.
Literature mostly deals with Human beings. We are not that complicated Anon. It could be we are reaching the bottom of that pit. Probably around the time we discover self-conscious machines or adapt animals to become self-conscious or augment our own consciousness, you will see another paradigm shift and a new spectrum of knowledge discovered, hitherto unknowable.
>>7510771
Well whether ideas exist before we discover them is not the main focus of this thread - it is the focus of metaphysics known to Plato.
>at some distant point, the well will run dry
I suppose, that by "at some distant point" you mean the twilight of mankind or the achievement of Singularity or whatever. That is a rather utopian statement and the future that you are speaking about seems to morph into an even more distant time as we progress into our future.
I would say that a human is a rather complicated thing - very much like Kant was saying. A noumenon of some sorts and a vast amount of space yet to be discovered by us. We know very little of ourselves, I think.
>>7510226
this has been going on way longer than you seem to think. get off this board and try to actually study literature.
>>7510226
post rare gombro
>>7510751
There doesnt have to be an original one
the series of all fractions of the form 1/n ordered from largest to smallest has no first term, but certainly exists
and Socrates was transforming ideas already existing, in much the same way that your "unoriginal" others modify and transform existing works to create their own. Negation is a transformation
>>7511124
Bump. Can this become a Gombrowicz thread now?
>>7511162
I've recently come across an interesting thesis about the nature of language as a whole. The thesis is, that language comes from the need of negation, as one needs no words in order to affirm reality. Negation (the need to perform it) is perhaps what gave birth to abstract thinking as we know it today.
I've also seen a video essay constructed on the basis of this thesis (and the connection of the apple of Eden with the thesis) - I think the title was "The Girl Who Never Was", although I am not sure, I've only seen it in the museum of contemporary arts in Warsaw.
Concerning rare Gombro...
A picture of him and some inferior fag.
Glorious.
Przeciwstawiający się upupieniu.
Istny bohater narodowy działający na szkodę nacjonalizmowi.
Nie ma ucieczki przed gębą, chyba, że w inną gębę.
>>7511175
Please no, that would lower the average thread quality by a few %.
>>7511525
Ferdydurke is one of the greatest novels ever created.
Die.
>>7511535
>Pointless satire
>Slapstick jokes
>Mocking analytic philosophy for the sake of it
Lel
Definitely not in XX century's top 100
>>7511539
Excusez moi - have you even read it?
>pointless satire
Considering the lush variety of things thought to be 'not pointless', Ferdydurke and its satiric qualities stand out as one of the most 'not pointless' things ever.
>slapstick jokes
Still better than the flatulence based jokes omnipresent in the works of great individuals such as Joyce or Beckett.
>mocking.
Wait. Where? The interludes?
The masters of analysis and synthesis?
Well, not at all.
I think that the whole philosophy of 'gęba' and 'uwarunkowanie osoby wobec kretynicznej duszy' is clearly on point and a great basis for further phenomenological or sociological (depending on whether you're into Levinas or just literature) analysis of the relations within society. Also, the great quality of the representation of The Artist. Far better than the representation found in Joyce's books.
>>7511558
I have, and guess what, not even a translation.
Basing on how you compare this almost objectively substance-free writer to Joyce, I can only assume you are baiting, and therefore I decline to carry this on. I rest my case, you didn't disprove any of my points. But I seriously do hope and I'm a little bit more than sure that you are baiting.
>>7511582
Am not baiting (a bit). We have come to the point, where the discussion becomes a waste land (breeding lilacs out of the dead land). I really do think that Gombrowicz has a lot of depth that can be analysed and used in a way, which would certainly satisfy an intellectual. It is a matter of interpretation and taste.
Uciekam z gębą w rękach.
>>7511582
Also, if you look at the whole thing this way:
>Gombrowicz was the ultimate bait maker
Ferdydurke makes sense then, doesn't it?
>>7511602
Who would you then call a Polish author superior to Gombrowicz, which we can discuss in order to derail this thread even further?
>>7511623Różewiczor even, if you're into poetry, that guy in the picture above blessed with the grateful nickname of ''some fag''
