![9780141183053[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/b03hfve.jpg "9780141183053[1].jpg")
I am reading this and I am starting to side with the "Fascists"
>They aren't actual fascists, more like reactionaries
>They fight with less food and equipment than the anarchist militias
>The Communists are split into various factions which bicker with each other and are authoritarian
>Orwell expressly states that in any war between a worker and his natural enemy the policeman he will side with the worker
Are there any books from the other side of the Spanish war? I've read FWtBT by Hemingway and it presented a similar picture.
>>7474735
>someone reads a book and sides with someone other then the Reds
>must be /pol/
>>7474409
>>They aren't actual fascists, more like reactionaries
The soldiers? My impression is that most soldiers do not hold the same believes as the generals they take orders from. Not the case with the anarchists though.
>>They fight with less food and equipment than the anarchist militias
I understand how this makes you feel sympathetic towards them. Surely it doesn't validate the ideology they are fighting for.
>>The Communists are split into various factions which bicker with each other and are authoritarian
There are more parties in the book than the communists. The book does not try to make you side with the commies. Rather the anarchists.
>>Orwell expressly states that in any war between a worker and his natural enemy the policeman he will side with the worker
I don't see why this should make you side with the fascists.
>>7474409
Dude, get your facts straight.
>>7474774
>>Orwell expressly states that in any war between a worker and his natural enemy the policeman he will side with the worker
Basically, he has no respect for the state or authority. It really undermines his case and makes the whole group seem like fringe lunatics.
>>7475446
>Basically, he has no respect for the state or authority
Uhhh, because they were going round breaking strikes and murdering workers at the time?
>>7474409
The Republic was a fucking mess but it was democratically elected Franco and co. aided by Hitler's army (mainly the air force) wrecked through everything just because the fucking manlet didn't like the election outcome. My gramps was shot in some nameless road, so I'm not objective but fuck the fascists regardless they've been shiting up the country for the last 40 years or so.
>>7475484
but you gotta respect the police, they risk their lives everyday just to protect us. Your edgelord mentality would be normal for a 15 yr old, but come on.
>>7475662
>they risk their lives everyday just to protect the us
lmao pure ideology
>>7475662
they risk their lives to protect the state
>>7475662
>they risk their lives everyday just to protect us
>people actually believe this
do you know anyone who has been protected by the police?
>>7475662
>>7475946
Yes
Stop being a hipster dick sucker
>>7475972
tell us the story
>>7475946
me every day that the black people stay in their own side of the city and sell drugs over there and not on the corner of my block, thank you very much
>>7475972
>>7475981
what a pussy lmao
>>7475662
The role of police is law enforcement, not public safety. It is perfectly legal for a cop to stand by and wait for it to end while someone beats you to death. This happened in DC and was ruled acceptable by the Supreme Court. That's not to say that cops have never made anyone safer, but it is not their job and they are free to opt out at any time. The fact that police unions or other groups have not lobbied to change this on any scale says a lot about the type of person who signs up.
It's also really not that dangerous to be a cop in the US. They risk violent death at the hands of others at an elevated rate, but many blue collar professions are more dangerous.
>>7475987
>lives in lilly white town where the only arrest was when some high school kid got pulled over for drunk driving after prom
yeah, try living in a major metro area packed with different races and income groups and see if you still want the police to go away? been to manhattan lately? sure are a lot of fucking homeless junkies everywhere....it's almost like Bloomberg and his evil police were making the city not a complete shithole! Or hey, how about Baltimore, now that St. Freddie Gray is a hero and the cops can't protect the citizens anymore murder are at an all time high...and I don't mean and all time high since the 80s or 90s i mean of all fucking time since Baltimore existed...so yeah, I bet some of those dead people would have liked it if the cops had been around to protect them.
I just remembered this actually.
One time when I was a kid me and my little sister were playing in the park during the middle of a cold winter. In the middle of the park there was this big lake completely frozen over so we decided to take tentative steps towards the middle until two coppers shouted us back and told it was far too dangerous (which it probably was desu).
That was an isolated incident though, and I believe there are plenty of countries where the police force is rife with corruption.
>>7475991
>It's also really not that dangerous to be a cop in the US. They risk violent death at the hands of others at an elevated rate, but many blue collar professions are more dangerous.
bitch please, you wouldn't even drive through the fucking neighborhoods these dudes have to patrol on fucking foot every night with a big blue "shoot me" uniform on. fucking pussy.
>>7475993
>all those dead gangsters killed by other gangster wish the police had been around more
Smdh dis white boi 4 real?!
>>7475999
You can't get a cop to respond to a 911 call for love or money in dangerous neighborhoods until they've counted to a hundred a few times to make sure the danger's over. For all the complaining about cops holding po' folk down, they're much more present in the safe parts of town and te dangerous parts of all major US cities are considered under-policed.
>>7476001
hey, as long as you stay on your side of town i don't care if you degenerate into primitive tribes constantly at war, and the cops help make sure your thug shit is confined to your own neighborhoods and humans from civilized cultures are free to engage in commerce and creativity
>>7476010
"911 is a joke" is a fun rap song but it's not actually real, if you call 911 the cops show up as fast as they can
>>7475993
>>7475999
Look, you illiterate nigger, nobody argues that every single police officer is an ethnic cleansing death machine, but as institutions they've been directly involved in creating and enforcing policies which allow conditions for paranoia and violence. Every cop I have ever talked to or known intimately has confessed to these sorts of things lurking over their shoulders and threatening to strike at any moment.
So long as police continue to be content with their tenured and lauded position, law enforcement and public good will never be equivalent, because the systems in place force them to view the citizen as an enemy, not as a compatriot.
>>7476021
dude, if you hate the cops so much why don't you just stop committing crimes?
>>7476021
There was a really good article in n+1 a while back that went into how any non-confrontational interaction with a citizen is basically a liability and a nuisance for most cops.
>>7476019
Yeah ok bud, just don't go looking for one on the wrong side of Memphis, ATL, NOLA or Chicago if you love your life.
>>7474409
I don't know where you got the idea the Fascists had less equipment, but the Republican side only had a number of planes which could barely fly, given to them by France, they were at a vast disadvantage against the falangistas who had a strong support from Italy and Germany, something which did not happen with the USSR.
André Malraux led the Republican Planes btw. Since were on a lit board.
>>7474409
I don't know about food but less equipment? Are you daft? The Republicans had something like 30 different types of rifle and not much ammunition for them, largely due to the international embargo against them, they got a few bits from the Soviets but they were hardly in any position to dish out hardware. The Nationalists were armed by the Germans and particularly the Italians, in contravention of the embargo, one thing they didn't lack for is equipment, especially compared to the side Orwell fought on.
>>7474409
"The British and French naval embargo allowed Germany and Italy to reinforce their armies in Spain; the embargo hampered only the Soviet efforts to arm the legitimate Republican government."
>>7475662
Since you got drowned in replies from retards, I thought I should say I agree.
I think police are incredibly corrupt in many places and a lot of critique is necessary, but fundamentally many or most of them identify with the role of protecting and serving the public, and work a job that kills them on the inside and out to do it.
Cops need more thorough humanist training and self-awareness. I don't mean in some pussy leftist way like "sensitivity training," just that a lot of problems with cops could be fixed by creating some kind of culture of holding themselves to a much higher standard. Too many of them give in to fatalism, cynicism, or hate for the public.
But fundamentally, I mean, we're living in a society where a military and state police apparatus that consumes like 60-70% of the tax budget at least has SOME FUCKING IDEA that it is a public servant first and foremost. Compare that to a military or paramilitary in any other era. It's a start, at least.
>>7475662
Are they really risking their lives when they have weapons and power and they're oppressing the lower classes of society? Seems like a low risk high reward scenario seeing that many police come from working class backgrounds themselves
>>7474409
About 2000 Soviets fought for the Republicans. Italy sent 75.000. The Soviet Union managed to send 242 aircrafts. Italy sent 763.
The Nationalist had Portugal helping them on one side and non-intervening France on the other as well as having Morocco (From where more 75.000 troops came).
>>7475999
>big blue "shoot me" uniform
The last thing a criminal wants to do is shoot a cop. Keep eating up that sweet propaganda from the Sergeant's Benevolent Association though
>>7475662
Power ranking of a police's responsibilities:
>Elite's bodily safety
>elites stuff
>business property and money
>an officers bodily safety
>the police's safety and the reputation of "the force"
>the idea of the "public" which props up the entire charade
>normies
>normies property
>fucking around on the clock
> . . .
> . . .
>You involved in any interaction with the police.
>>7476061
then why do cops get killed every year in my area, often for no reason other than being cops?
Can we bring this back to the original point and remember that OP supports Franco because he is a fan of (presumably American) police?
>>7476061
>The last thing a criminal wants to do is shoot a cop.
if criminals thought rationally their choices in life they wouldn't BE criminals in the first place
>>7476068
Please share your area. Whenever an NYPD officer is murdered for being a cop lie the two earlier this year the entire city shuts down for a week. It is not too common
>>7476056
How exactly are cops "oppressing the lower classes of society"? By not letting degenerate crackheads steal my shit and smoke it up? You have to be a real moron to be "oppressed" by a cop.
>>7476071
Someone failed Principles of Microeconomics
>>7476073
yeah, it's not much more uncommon than a black guy getting shot by a cop, but you wouldn't know that from how the media responds
>>7476076
Check your privilege motherfucker
>>7476077
actually I got an A but maybe if I review the marginal product and elasticity of demand again suddenly robbing a liquor store will seem like a good idea...
>>7476069
Kek
>>7476076
This, to be quite frank. If you're living in a slum, there's a whole lot of shit that goes wrong before your sad life is a cop's fault.
>>7476050
I don't know dude, I personally know the families of two separate retarded white men who were shot dead at a distance by cops responding to a tard tantrum. That's not terribly benevolent.
>>7476083
You'd acthay review your marginal benefit and marginal cost before making such a decision
>>7476079
the cops are stopping a black guy from stealing whatever device you are shit posting from right now as we speak, so why don't you check YOUR privilege, bitch
>>7476090
They aren't though. In societies that are not like the American one you just have to have a door basically and lock it at night. Lived right in front of a slum for 20 years and nothing ever happened.
It's not like cops are bad, or are all bad, or whatever some are implying here. They do the bidding of those of pay them, and even though we are the ones providing the money, we aren't the ones giving the orders.
>>7475662
this is bait
Here's to you
Nikola and Bart
>>7476141
epic reference xD
>>7474409
>less food and equipment
What? The Nationalist forces fought with far more material than the Republicans could ever muster, probably the only area the Republicans were dominant in was their tanks. Not that it counted for much since only those groups aligned with the Soviet Union got near them.
But yes, the Republic was pretty well divided. As for whether you'll side with the police over the worker, you should spend more time with the working class, it would help you get some perspective.
Books from the other side:
The Victorious Counterrevolution by Michael Seidman, it presents the logistical/material side of things and explains why Franco won, contrasting his success with the failure of the failures of other counterrevolutionary groups.
>>7476307
The working class doesn't care about socialist ideals.
The part that stood out to me the most in Homage to Catalonia is the scene where Orwell can't bring himself to shoot an enemy soldier whose trousers are about to drop.
>>7475662
>>7476574
The working class can kiss my arse, I've got the foreman's job at last.
Seriously though OP, what is wrong with you? I mean Orwell was a policeman and he didn't like them. As to thinking the fascists had less that is just confusing.
Reggie Baits extreme OP
>>7475993
>please protect me big brother
>>7476050
Those guys who responded are not the retarded ones here. Cops are not there for the people, but for those who have property. The fact that you still believe this dumb status quo shit really shows that you have never critically examined the forces of state.
>>7476076
Cops are literally enforcing the system in which the poor stay poor.
>>7476896
How are they doing that exactly?
>>7475662
>tfw I want to become an inspector but /lit/ won't let me
I agree with you in theory mang but police aren't always like that which is why I want to become a policeman.
Also it sounds fun.
>>7476896
didn't realise the cops controlled people's genetics
>>7476955
>he drinks the tap water
>>7475946
Yeah,
Me that time the somali gang in my neighborhood started shooting at the k*rd gang from a different neighborhood in my building's courtyard.
ITT: suburban teenagers who fell for the "police are evil!!" meme
Most of the soldiers were recruited at gunpoint on both sides. The fascists were heavily supported by Hitler and to a lesser extent (because he was a meme leader from a meme country) by Mussolini.
I'm a spaniard btw and Orwell was shot outside the city I live in, possibly by one of my grandfathers who fought on the Franco team despite being both left wing because they were recruited by force
>>7475662
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeQUlr4Xc3s
>>7476996
*literature enthusiasts who recognize the importance of questioning authority and keeping them in check
>>7476955
Master Baiter
>>7475662
50 ppl falling for shitty bait
goddamnit /lit/
>>7474409
>reading anticommunist shit
>starting to be anticommunist
WOW, so much surprise, never expected.
>>7477119
It wasn't on a lesser extent by Mussolini. Overall a 75.000 Italians fought against the Republic and well as sending almost 800 planes. That's almost 35x more people than the Soviets sent the Republic and 3x as many planes.
>>7477208
but it's true
class is a natural phenomenon
>>7477268
They got their shit pushed up in Guadalajara and they were basically a joke on both sides. Italians are shit at war, that was my point
article in the nytimes today admit 97% of shooting in nyc are committed by non-whites
>>7477263
It's anti-authoritarian you faggot.
Hi OP here its an interesting debate you guys are having but can we keep it on topic please ie. not about blacks in America?
My question is are there any pro-fascist literature from the Spanish civil war. I ask because some things the anarchists/republicans stand for I don't believe in, like getting rid of the church and classless society. From what I've read, I'm inclined to believe that the fascists believed they were defending order and the Church and the rest of it, not unlike the reactionaries in the French Revolution who I also support..
The war was cast by Republican sympathizers as a struggle between tyranny and freedom, and by Nationalist supporters as between communist and anarchist "red hordes" and "Christian civilization".[73] Nationalists also claimed they were bringing security and direction to an ungoverned and lawless country.[73]
>My question is are there any pro-fascist literature from the Spanish civil war. I ask because some things the anarchists/republicans stand for I don't believe in, like getting rid of the church and classless society. From what I've read, I'm inclined to believe that the fascists believed they were defending order and the Church and the rest of it, not unlike the reactionaries in the French Revolution who I also support..
The fascists were not 'defending order' but defending the status quo. Why do you suppose that there would not eventually have been a return to order if the Republicans had won? Do you not think that there was public order in the Soviet Union?
Is your desire to defend the church based on a belief in religious freedom, or do you think that the church should be part of the state?
>>7475662
this is hand crafted, custom-fitted shitpost
fucking old world craftsmanship on this one. what a rare treat
>>7477850
I am a big believer in conservatism, classical art, the old Christianity, the feudal heirarchy and not in favour of godless revolutionary hogwash. Is it so hard to believe in this day and age?
>>7474409
I really don't think you're suppose to side with anyone. It's simply a recount of orwells horrid experience in the war
He personally sided with the anarchists because they were the least authortarian
>>7478185
So you believe in nothing that exists anymore. No wonder you've been so dumb in this thread lmao.
>>7478185
Are you trying to avoid answering the question?
I'll ask again: is your desire to defend the church based on a belief in religious freedom, or is it because you think that the church should be a part of the state?
It's not hard to believe people are conservative in this day and age; but hearing someone expressing admiration for Fascism certainly is. If there's one thing you should have learned from the twentieth century, it's that authoritarianism should be opposed.
>>7477142
>being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian
Literally edgy teen
>>7477850
The status quo is the only worthwhile order, only white suburbanite teenagers think otherwise.
>>7478984
It's neither...it's because I believe that the church is good and that atheism is bad, for society as a whole. The reds were very eager to burn the churches down and beat the priests...I think the whole establishment of the church should be protected from the reds but it is not from the basis of religious freedom but Christian supremacy. I suppose you could stretch that to Monotheistic supremacy if I am being liberal about it.
>>7479975
>blinded by ideology
kill yourself
>>7476914
>how does the law enforcement enforce the law?
>>7479986
plz leave desu senpai Fukuyama
>>7476071
>>7476061
>>7476001
>>7475946
>all these people whining about their brutal police.
Muh central europe.
I see your problems in your land of the free while i feel pretty damn good protected by our police. Sure the police protects the state but the state protects me. Stop living in your liberal shitholes.
>>7475662
>>7474409
OP, there are a shitload of books written from the fascist point of view that were authentic bestsellers during the Francoist regime. However, you may found it only in spanish (I don't think they were translated)...
A fun example is "Diccionario para un macuto" (it can be translated as "Dictionary for a holster"): basically its a memoir from an actual falangist, written as a civil war slang dictionary, full of cruel and gruesome anecdotes. It's a cool read that shows the most "human" or "inhuman" side of the war.
>>7480312
it sounds to me you already were siding with the fascists and were not moved by whatever happened in the Civil War.
The assassinations of clergy were uncoordinated and happened as a reaction to the massacres of Franco's coup. In far smaller quantity and mostly done by those connected with the anarchists and trotskyists.
The Republicans did forbid priests from teaching at school, became a state separate from the church and took most of their land. But that's all pretty justifiable when you think of the horrors that were caused by the Spanish church for a number of years.
>>7474409
Also, another famous book quoted everywhere here in Spain is "Madrid de corte a cheka", by Agustín de Foxá, an aristocrat diplomat. It's about the situation in Madrid, during 1936 and 1937, narrating the revolutionary sitiuation. I haven't read it yet, but it's one of the must reads of the anticommunist literature.
The title is a pun about Madrid: a "corte" (a royal court) that became a "cheka" (a soviet punishment cell).
>>7479986
Yes, that's why I want to bring back the Soviet Union: a return to the status quo.
>>7480312
I see.
I thought that you were sympathising with Franco because you are anti-communist, and were trying to make that seem more palatable by making it about 'freedom of religion'. My contention was that Franco wasn't supporting freedom of religion at all.
It never occurred to me that you would actually be a Christian supremacist. It seems like a such an antiquated perspective, I didn't think anyone would sincerely advocate that any more.
Needless to say I completely disagree with you and think your ideas are regressive and dangerous, but at least you are honest about it.
Last I heard the Falange are still kicking around in Spain, perhaps you should ask about joining them.
>>7480423
I used to live in Central Europe. One New Years there was a fight at the strip club across from my flat: they sent eight police cars to chase a man who fled the scene.
Another time I was getting out of the metro station to see a group of five or more officers beating up one (maybe two) teenagers who were lying on the ground with their truncheons
Finally there was once a couple of drunks lying in the street outside of my local pub. Concerned for their safety my fiance and I tried to call an Ambulance but they sent cops round instead. We watched from our balcony as the first car arrived and then at least six different police patrols went past.afterwards, each time checking the scene. Finally I think they did send an ambulance, that or they spent a night in the cells I guess.
tl;dr: Central European police forces seem to respond with excessive force and in overwhelming numbers.
You must be insane OP
anyone who reads that sides with the anarchists
>>7475446
all authority is illegitimate unless it can prove itself
>>7475662
>but you gotta respect the police, they risk their lives everyday just to protect us
they protect me by breaking strikes and beating me?
>>7475662
>they risk their lives everyday just to protect us.
>>7480489
>killer lumpenproles are just temporarily embarrassed saints, base and superstructure, not neuroanatomy!!!
>murder is just healthy catharsis (the reds did it!)
>>7480484
The anarchists were one of the causes for the defeat of the republic, many of the times preferring to spend their time killing priests and attacking other Leftist forces.
>>7476037
>andré malraux
what, for real? i personally disliked his prose in "the human condition", but it's cool as hell that he had some real experience to draw upon. damn, son
>>7476077
>not failing macro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDBq-OU1rHo
>>7480523
The Human Condition and The Conquerers are drawn from his experiences with the Communists in China. After the Spanish Civil War he fought with the Resistance, as did many of the communists who had managed to escape Spain in time and move to France. He had quite an adventurous life, even became Minister of Culture in France
>>7480418
>butthurt sjw doesn't want to address the question
