What does /lit/ think of these two?
I quite like le morality lad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHoAQW_DBI4
>>7465409
HOW
>>7465404
meme brothers
I like Peter more than Christopher but he was based too in his own way.
>>7465404
>CHRISTtopher Hitchens
>Atheist
damn...
https://youtu.be/T4ZbdOBWWCw
https://youtu.be/zixbPLZKqCo
They look like they belong on TLC.
>>7465409
Is people naturally this retarded? Are those question for real?
I like Christopher because he had a sense of humor and sometimes offered some interesting and unusual opinions. I like his brother because he's the ultimate sophist. He doesn't actually believe any of the nonsense he talks about. He just thinks it's funny to watch the leftists squirm.
Only difference between them is that one hated Muslims while being an atheist, whereas the other hates Muslims while being a Christian.
>>7465530
Also one was a crypto-conservative while the other is openly conservative.
>>7465530
good lads
Pete is good on war, drugs, guns and the supposed comedian russel brand. Chris is good on nothing.
>>7465409
BASED
A
S
E
D
>>7465546
>pete
>good on drugs
lol
>>7465404
RIP Christopher, he was shit but quite good
peter is a worthless spaz
>>7465555
now i have to clean sick out of my beard
>>7465527
>He doesn't actually believe any of the nonsense he talks about.
What? No.
I like both but don't agree much with either.
Best thing about both is they keep discourse at a high level
I like Pete quite a lot, except for his stuff on drugs, for I very much enjoy smoking marijuana while running in the streets of São Paulo, São Paulo state, Brazil, S.A, on cold rainy nights with the lads.
Rate me for it.
I sort of like Peter because he pairs his conservatism with deep pessimism.
I can completely understand how someone can long for conservative or reactionary values, but I consider people idiots when they think they can actually achieve such a thing. So admitting it's all hopeless and fucked shows makes him a pleasant, realistic sort of après moi le déluge sort of type.
Christopher just seems sort of confused. Muh communism, muh neoliberalism, muh atheism, muh conservatis, muh anti-Tatcher, muh pro-Bush, get a grip lad.
>>7465606
He was also pro-thatcher at some point. And he died because of his self-hedodonistic atheism.
>>7465603
hello mememaster
>>7465618
I think going conservative while remaining an atheist hedonist doesn't work to be honest. If you don't return to your faith as well you have no anchor for those values and it's a completely arbitrary preference for old timey things that's hard to defend when you lack the proper framework.
>>7465634
>Thatcher
>Conservative
>>7465409
Patrician as fuck
>>7465641
I was talking about Christopher's ideological running about, not Thatcher.
>tfw personally conservative but politically socialist
pissing off everyone is shit
>>7465652
He was never a conservative. He just aligned with the hardcore Bush-nationalists that fucked up Iraq, because of his anti-theist views. He was a sad piece of human being.
Also, he was a Marxist the admired capitalism. That never made sense to me.
>>7465664
According to Marxism, capitalism is a progressive force in historical development.
>>7465404
I loved Christopher's fire and I find it a greyer world without him. Though I don't agree with much of what Peter says, I admire his simultaneous apathy and stubbornness.
>>7465664
He was just a white nationalist who tried to justify his narcissistic views through "free-thinking".
>>7465664
Marx himself admired capitalism
>>7465675
Fuck man, just go away.
>>7465664
He was ideologically challenged to say the least.
Too bad he didn't see how the Iraq war ended up for his precious secularism though.
>>7465404
I like the right one more even though all he seems to do is go on tv panel shows to get yelled at by students while looking tired and sad.
>>7465729
This is a great one, if you got the time.
https://youtu.be/tTu3gVvm_K8
9:10 is a classic.
>>7465675
this tbqh
>>7465409
Fantastic
>>7465746
Pessimism is so cosy.
>>7465404
christopher is the shit. after watching peter get upstaged in their "debate" it's no wonder that he's a sophist pleb, desperately reaching for the coattails of his brother. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggIDnBl0zIU just listen to the way he says "why sneer at it?" poor guy, mom probably loved christopher so much more.
>>7465768
she loved cock more than both of them
>>7465634
I am atheist conservative, as in Peter Hitchens-like, Burkean true conservative, (not hedonist though) and I don't think you need God at all to support these views. I believe conservative values are straight up better for society, its cohesion, its members. There is a reason they endured for thousands of years. People don't change that much and trying to mask social decay with technological progress can only work for a limited time til cracks start showing. I agree that being pessimist is pretty much only reasonable stance for a modern truly conservative person though - because the chance of restoring society to a reasonably decent state is zero, and because as a conservative in the West its hard to find a social clique or similarly conservative partner (lots of Nazis, gun nuts and bigots on the right, but people like Peter are rare). Its quite lonely position, really, and I think it shows on Peter's personality as well. But he keeps fighting the good fight even in the face of unquestionable defeat, which I deem honorable and right.
>>7465783
>Atheist
>>7465409
>tfw you're a Millennial and your mind will never be furnished with beauty.
very little, almost nothing
>>7465794
>not becoming NEET and starting with the Greeks
Retreating into aestheticism is the most reasonably thing to do these days.
>>7465783
I don't see how you lads can fight for a lost cause to be honest, but maybe I'm too consistent in my fatalism for my own good.
The wrong Hitchens died. Their father should have died before they were born.
>>7465827
Depends on what you consider "fighting." When discussion comes to politics, or something happens in the world and I talk about it with my friends, I'll try to explain it or comment it from my position. I'd say most of my friends are not conservative, but they definitely respect my positions now and refer to me as far as some issues go. I am not the type who'd go on TV to argue with some idiots like Peter does (I respect that but my patience is too small I am afraid), but I try to make a difference in my social bubble and on internet discussions. Its not much but its something.
>>7465760
If you think that's impressive, check this out: https://youtu.be/-dREKQhyEvY
>>7465862
Caroline Flint is so fuckable
>>7465862
I kind of respect him for his manners and that he identifies a lot of problems, but fuck this is a lot of bullshit.
Just emigrate? Why? Where to?
>>7465890
I met her and got into a brief argument with her about censorship, she wanted to bring back the 12 certificate for films and said she watched King Kong with her kid and said that it was clearly far too scary for anyone under 12. I pointed out the relative lax censorship of films in France and how they haven't declined into some decrepit pit of immorality. I'd like to say we had a great debate but someone else butted in and changed the subject.
And yeah, she looks better on TV. The tooth gap turns me off her a bit.
>>7465898
Catholic countries
Protestant countries are all cuckolded
>>7465861
>Its not much but its something.
I'm not sure if that's necessarily a good thing when it's too late. Might as well not make people aware of what they're throwing away when it's too late to be salvaged.
I sometimes feel a bit guilty when I bombard people with quite convincing reasons to be pessimistic when I don't have any solutions to offer, at least.
>>7465862
>muh manufacturing
>muh immigrants
>muh grammar schools
>muh bobby on the beat
>muh morality
99% of anything he says tbqh
>>7465909
>I pointed out the relative lax censorship of films in France and how they haven't declined into some decrepit pit of immorality
>>7465916
I see what you're saying, I truly do, but they're going to get disappointed either way. Their utopia is not real, it can never happen, its not possible. Its better if they will be prepared for the disappointment. When the truly bad times come, its best to be the one saying "I told you so" calmly, reconciled.
>>7465911
m8
>>7465930
Good point, helping them brace of it can also be a good thing.
>>7465862
Absolutely based.
Although I think immigration can't save you either, at least not in the long run. I can't think of a place where you could give your children and grandchildren a worthwhile future.
>>7465935
yes
>you'll never be a toryist monarchist anglican englishman
A-at least I can roleplay on 4chan.
>>7465862
there's something both disgusting and wonderfully illustrative about hearing a politician go full meme speak right after that comment of his
>>7465957
Catholic """"countries"""" are either shitholes with no national unity like Spain or Italy or cúcked to death like France.
The glorious Tsardom of Russia is the only real option for the dissatisfied white man, my friend.
>>7465409
Weird, I expected this poem
Christopher >>>>>> Peter, although I mostly share Peter's views
>>7465962
>oligarchist paper bear on it's last legs leading the white world in aids, abortion, addiction, early deaths and muslim demographic
>real option
Don't believe in the memes, friend.
Andrew Lloyd Webber?
>>7465520
And these are people politically interested enough to go on a politics programme in the first place. The average voter is even more retarded.
>>7465962
but you also have Poland, Ireland and Switzerland
Italy won't be cucked anytime soon, living in rural Italy really is the dream
national unity is a meme, it results in bloated governments and an out of touch political class
microstates are the future
>>7466017
Nationalism has always been cancer. People used to connect with their family and region on a smaller scale, and the concept of western christendom/later western europe.
Now we divide ourselves over arbitrary guidelines and war over identically shitty countries. Yay.
>>7465862
>why are you so miserable?
I love how they all ineffectually try to gang up on him and effectively shame him.
do you think Owen Jones fantasizes about Peter
>>7465911
True, but Catholic countries are all shitholes. There's no place to run.
>>7465409
I love this vid. Peter makes us proud :)
>>7465929
In the real world, not 4chan meme land I'm right.
>>7465409
Hitchens is making me more of a conservative every day
>>7466578
Also more of a defeatist?
>>7466578
Its a phase that everyone has, you'll go through a cycle embracing every credible position before finally accepting and embracing one for the rest of your adult life.
If reactionary conservativism is that, fair enough.
>>7466610
I agree that the word reactionary became somewhat of an insult, but its our job to make it honorable again. Personally I still prefer conservative, because I like the act of conserving more than reacting, but right now there is not much worthy of conservation so first we have to react.
>>7465404
someone post that video of Peter Hitchens getting triggered
>>7466598
>reactionary conservatism
Hilarious.
>>7466912
thats not how political science works
>>7466918
Jargon doesn't matter if you can control the narrative.
>>7465404
Now every time there's big events in the world, I always think, "what would Hitch have said about this."
>>7466923
thats why we should change it as anon said desu
its not set in stone though it wont be easy thats for sure
>>7466910
This one? At 4 minutes he goes apeshit.
https://youtu.be/WMHYjUBmKqM
>>7465815
>Retreating
No
>Andrea Dworkin, who was pelted and ridiculed for decades of her life, was another of those rare people who feel other people's pain as if it were their own. When she first sent me one of her books, I was all ready to snigger. But she could write, and think, and argue, and it was often a pleasure to disagree violently with her, which is more than I can say for some of her detractors. Like many clever and tormented people, she had the gift of getting the gist of supposedly complex questions. It wasn't OK with her that President Clinton had a special staff of private dicks to "handle" and to slander truth-telling women; it wasn't OK with her that Serbia used rape as a weapon of ethnic cleansing; and she wasn't neutral against a jihadist threat that wanted, and wants, to enslave and torture females. That she could be denounced as a "conservative" for holding any of those positions says much about the left to which she used to belong. If she was indeed crazy, I wish she had bitten more of her twisted sisters. -- Christopher Hitchens
Source:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2005/04/two_ibrahims_and_two_women.html
>>7466995
>Do you have an example
Jesus Christ this man is stupider than i thought, we barely got to hear her example.
>>7466995
>I think we have an example here: You're bullying her.
Oh fuck these people jesus christ
>>7467486
>this man is stupider than i thought
what are you even talking about. a woman made baseless accusations and cornered Peter then the crowd tried using the fact that he got frustrated as a fact that yes, in fact, he IS "intolerant," because he was "bullying" her.
>>7467486
>we barely got to hear her example.
In fact, we didn't even hear it. It mysteriously vanished after Hitchens repeatedly asked her to provide it, how peculiar...
>>7467448
Now that made my respect for Christopher significantly smaller.
>>7466995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JCtiDx9pX8
"name one"
>>7466995
>brilliant women of colour
jaysus the yanks are in the house
>>7465853
underrated post
>>7468027
before birth but after insemination
>>7465404
Why is it that so many people call peter a sophist yet I have heard absolutely no argument against him, not even an attempt, while Christopher hitchens can be (and has been) falsified by anyone who has been exposed to serious religious thought?
Absolutecucks
>>7468648
It's easier to call him a sophist than actually tackle his stance. You see this sort of thing much more often on /pol/, but they just so happen to love Peter. Honestly, it's hard not to. Even if you don't agree with him you have to admire someone who is unafraid to speak mind knowing that he will receive a lot of backlash, to put it mildly ( he has gotten many death threats).
Peter is my preferred brother because I really have no interest in discussion about atheism, however, once I saw Christopher talk about other subjects, specifically freedom of speech then I begun to appreciate his brilliance.
Christopher was far and away the more intelligent of the two; he read significantly more than Peter; he had a better sense of humor and, because he had read so much more, a better sense of history. I'm not a religious person but I did get bored with his stuff on atheism. I never understood why he kept going on about that when most of the people who listened to him were already in agreement.
Peter has some very genuine concerns about the direction of the West, and I do tend to respect people who go against the grain, but he has such a difficult time articulating and defending his positions. I understand why a lot of the Christians on here gravitate towards him, but he doesn't have anything very insightful or compelling to say about the subject.
I prefer Christopher.
>>7465794
but it is. I read a lot of good books in school. I still think about the scene in Fahrenheit 451when the guys who memorize books to keep them alive are walking along the railroads.
>>7467486
>Jesus Christ this man is stupider than i thought
Ironic considering how poorly you've misread what was going on in that video. He was right to call it a baseless accusation as that was exactly what it turned out to be. Adding large amounts of emotion to your rhetoric apparently wins over idiots like you again and again. Actually listen to the responses with a discerning ear.
>>7469278
To be fair, he kinda bombarded her while she couldn't speak.
>>7469302
If someone is claiming that you are making a baseless accusation in a televised debate then you are bloody well going to make it a point of yours to quickly shoot them down with evidence to prove beyond any doubt that it wasn't baseless.
She wasn't some idiot who didn't know how to carry herself in a debate. If she had it she would've loved to throw it in his face. But she jumped topic and sped through some quick double-speak because she knew she was talking out of her ass so she played up the emotion. Textbook bullshit.
>>7466995
That was extremely hard to watch. Peter Hitchens on tv is always rough but that was probably the worst it's been. So much arrogance and bullshit thrown in his face while he makes the same points every time. Nobody's interested in listening to him in these things. I'm starting to think that his tactic is actually to highlight how bad the british left is by getting them to yell at him on tv every week.
>>7466995
That asian woman is cute
>>7465533
>crypto-conservative
lol
>>7469261
>>7469209
This. And I'm a devout Christian.
I sympathize a lot with some of Peter's opinions. But he hasn't got compelling things to say about them. Christopher may have been wrong, even disastrously wrong, on some things. Some might say his atheism; some might say Iraq; some might say Mother Theresa. But he always put forward a surprisingly compelling case. Most of the posters who criticize him for being hawkish on Iraq couldn't dream of arguing it with him. As an orator he was supreme; but his arguments were never half-assed, either.
I still sometimes read his book on the Clintons. It's very sad that he isn't around to comment on Hillary's campaign.
>>7465790
Love thid gif.
Dislike both of them tho.
>>7465527
Although i'm admittedly a Christopher fan-boy, I won't deny that Peter is legit with his beliefs. Unless I have him wrong and he's 100% trying to fuck shit up, I heavily doubt that he's disingenuous.
>>7469209
>Peter has some very genuine concerns about the direction of the West
M8 its fucking finished.
>>7465546
>Pete is good on war,
DRUGS ARE BAD because it doesn't let me see god with sober eyes
Therefore, it doesn't matter if we put everyone's children in jail, because drugs are so bad that when they're gone we won't care that all our kids are in prison for something that is their choice and effects nobody else.
Jesus, that wasn't as witty as I intended but w/e
>>7465862
based owen jones
>>7465533
I'm a crypto-conservative and a staunch advocate of crypto-currency (particularly bitcoins), cryptozoology (cryptids, like rods), and crypto-number theoretic approaches to elliptic curves over finite fields (see Noam Elkies).
>>7470200
Self-destruction is frowned upon among Christians.
>>7465959
move to england. gain citizenship. trust me, I know americans far more "british" than people born here.
>>7470189
>thinks his strawman is witty
You have no idea what Peter's arguments are against drug legalization are do you? I don't even agree with Peter but I think he has one of the most compelling arguments against drug use and legalization/decriminalization.
>>7470341
>getting a ticket for the titanic while it's already sinking
>>7470360
not him but could you tl;dr his position?
>>7470594
https://youtu.be/iNnnA_ZRdgI
>>7465783
>(lots of Nazis, gun nuts and bigots on the right, but people like Peter are rare). Its quite lonely position, really, and I think it shows on Peter's personality as well. But he keeps fighting the good fight even in the face of unquestionable defeat, which I deem honorable and right.
This is what I admire about him too and this bit sums him up quite nicely
Requesting someone post the meme of Peter Hitchens at a party or the fanfiction of him getting cucked by Christopher
>>7465527
>this is what people convince themselves of to shut things out
>>7465862
fucking hell
>>7470235
>tongue firmly up the arse of the establishment
disappointing 2bh
>>7466017
I don't know too much about Ireland but it seems from the Irish Times columnists that their liberal intelligentsia has as much self-hatred for their country as any other Euro nation. There was a column I read a few weeks ago that excused Bloody Sunday as the result of 'the wrong people at the wrong place at the wrong time.' There is talk of banning the angelus during public broadcast as well. Maybe an Irish person could comment though.
>>7465404
Hitches can make good points from time to time but ultimately comes out as a self righteous
>>7471048
>Elliott Spitzer running a debate on morality :D
>>7465404
like peter and liked christopher.
>>7471253
Ireland recently voted for same-sex marriage
They also don't give a shit at all about immigration
If those are some of the parameters by which you judge a country being 'cucked' well they certainly qualify
>>7470594
For Peter it is a mostly moral argument which stands on the premise that individuals are not islands unto themselves. When you take drugs you affect those around you, most often negatively. They, unquestionably, are damaging to your physical and mental health and those around you will be affected by it.
I wish Peter would take time to extend his argument beyond the moral aspect, because I think it would make his argument more compelling.
Two very intelligent shitheads that squandered their considerable mental capacities on pedagoguery and punditry.
What a waste.
>>7471735
Is he also in favour of banning alcohol and tobacco then?
>>7465783
You sound like me.
>>7471792
He doesn't drink or smoke himself so I would guess so
>>7471792
>In an ideal world, Hitchens would outlaw alcohol and tobacco too, but as it is he takes the eminently pragmatic view that both drugs are too entrenched in our culture to be banned.
>Although he does drink, he hasn't been drunk since he was 15.
>>7472039
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2658162/PETER-HITCHENS-Its-not-Muslim-issue-In-modern-nation-youre-extremist-too.html
he's an houellebecq tier islamophile
their youtube videos are equally good
whose books are better?
>>7472063
>houellebecq tier islamophile
The amount of people who misunderstood Soumission is astounding
>>7472073
What's your interpretation then, m8?
>>7472073
I've recently read Atomised, and curious at other people's thoughts of it, I looked up online. It seems he's been called a misogynist and a lot of spurious shit based on it and other works. That's nearly completely the polar opposite of my interpretation, because in it, he exalts femininity and the feminine virtues throughout. He's a reactionary undoubtedly, but also a humanist, it seems, although a misanthropic and despairing one. Am I wrong? Why do people level such criticism at him?
>>7472142
I'm a good conservative drunkard to be honest.
>>7465409
Jesus, he and by the looks of it /lit/ are a bunch of faggots.
Woah, he remembers a poem!
I dont think Peter Hitchens is particularly extraordinary, but Ill be damned if i've ever seen anyone handle him properly on any sort of public forum that I've seen. I mean, what is it about him to attracts detractors that cant keep from becoming emotion? Why are all these people that publically disagree with him have absolutely no real valid arguments or are able to present them properly at all? They make Peter look like Jesus himself at debate, every damn time, and hes not.
>>7472165
It's not the poem that is praised but his general attitude, silly little nihilist.
>>7472181
its late, excuse the hilarious typoes
Conservatism is so sad to be honest, dedicating your life to getting something back that you will never achieve
>>7472378
u wot
>>7472378
Well we could always band together in a grand intellectual conspiracy to bring about the downfall of Modernity and the collapse of global civilization into a second Middle Ages.
It could be fun!
From left to right:
Man child, insincere, actor, attention seeker, pedantic, motivated by idiotic things
Boring, as, fuck, retarded, odd, looks like an old owl
>>7465404
getting cucked by your brother is hard.
>>7465815
>Retreating into aestheticism
I kek'd
/lit/ here
Which books would you recommend for someone who is interested in morality and conservatism?
Are there any videos or articles where Peter delves deeper into his Christian faith?
I'm curious why he chose to convert to Anglicanism in particular; if it was due to personal theological conviction or because it should be the obvious choice for an Englishman. I'm also curious about his views on Catholicism and if he ever considered the Church.
>>7473020
>I'm also curious about his views on Catholicism and if he ever considered the Church.
There's an interview with a Polish something, look it up.
>>7473000
Anything by Burke
Christopher was a pandering idiot who went with whatever ideas were supported by the current zeitgeist to sustain his miserable need to be popular.
Watch the interview with Christopher and Peter debating religion. You'll see Christopher resorting to making jokes to move the audience to his side more often than you'd think. Thankfully Peter calls him out on it.
>>7465520
>Is people naturally this retarded? Are those question for real?
>is people naturally this retarded?
>is people
Are* people naturally this retarded?
Yes, apparently.
The video seems deceptive though. It looks like he wants the bible read in school.
>>7465783
>because the chance of restoring society to a reasonably decent state is zero
And when exactly are we restoring to? What golden years do you speak of?
>>7473020
He strikes me as the kind of lad for whom Christianity is a consequence of his conservatism rather than the other way around.
Can't very well be a papist like some bloody Johnny Foreigner, can he?
>>7473206
Edwardian master race
>>7471257
>as a self righteous
You have my permission to finish that thought.
Which neighbourhood
>>7473499
cunt
>>7473206
The Victorian era.
Christopher was fun. Peter appears to be boring.
>>7474285
>Christopher Hitchens
pedantic and wrong
>Peter Hitchens
pedantic and right
>>7474404
neither was pedantic
Also, neither is right or wrong about everything. Both have strong and weak points. Both were/are staunchly principled.
The Hitch knew what he was talking about a little more often than Pete.
>>7474419
>The Hitch knew what he was talking about a little more often than Pete
u wot
