>he still watches porn
>>7429571
I don't watch porn or masturbate anymore.
>>7429571
I quit after James Deen rape allegations.
Porn is inherently misogynist.
>>7429581
This. It's extremely demeaning not only to women but also to sex and intimacy itself.
why wouldn't i
>>7429581
Maybe it's just because I'm incredibly bitter and jaded, but I'm happy that it's him out of all male pornstars that's a known rapist.
What about gay porn?
>>7429591
Still debases sexual intimacy.
>>7429591
that's even more oppressive. The only good porn is two straight white males being forced to rape each other
>>7429596
What about non-sexual kemoshota?
>>7429598
I don't know what the fuck that is.
Commodifying sex and making it this object and the people within it are terrible acts that destroy sex's meaning and hurts you as a person.
>>7429585
How is gay porn demeaning to women?
>>7429605
>implying i would have had sex anyway
>>7429608
anything that depicts any aspect of reality in a way open to a non feminist narrative is demeaning to women.
>>7429605
>sex's meaning
what are you some fucking catholic lmao
2d>3dpd
HOL UP
DONT TRIGGER ME FHAM
>>7429623
RAPE APOLOGIST
RAPE APOLOGIST
back to /pol/, you scum bag
i hate you poltards so much
>>7429623
>le nothing has meaning we are le postmodern
>dude this is water lmao
>>7429638
if you're gonna satirize feminism you should a) actually understand what you're satirizing b) making sure you're in the correct decade for such a satire to be relevant.
>>7429638
Who are you trying to fool, you retard?
>>>/pol/ebs belong in the >>>/trash/ with porn
>>7429630
this
proof:
https://vine.co/u/1090320222822514688
>>7429642
>two fleshblobs bumping into each another has a priori meaning
cool story bro
>>7429608
Gay porn tends to put one of the guys in a "female" position, furthering the viewpoint that in sex, there is a dominant masculine side, and a submissive feminine side.
Also,
>all these positive responses
/lit/ is now officially my favorite board, far surpassing /a/.
>>7429652
>two fleshblobs bumping into each another
wanna know how I know you're a virgin?
>>7429642
>SOMEONE SAID SOMETHING I DONT LIKE
>MUST BE A POSTMODERNIST
Ideological paranoia to the max.
>>7429652
>let me reduce sex into such a way that makes people who oppose my views look silly!
>let me disregard the emotional and psychological aspects of sexual intercourse and commodify the act to profit over it and exploit women and men's desire for intimacy!
>>7429656
cause you're intellectually incapable of conceiving people different to you t b h
Um no. Can you fedora get off my board. Like. Hello.
>>7429659
u got me
rip billy glide
>>7429659
fucking rekt
>tfw physically unable to fap to anything other than 2D
All depictions of life that are bought and sold are exploiting the emotional attachments we have to them, therefore they should be banned because whatever fuck you idolatry
>>7429686
Reminder that this is the type of discourse and level of intellect found among viewers of pornography.
>>7429688
Muslamics Get Out
>>7429659
>>let me disregard the emotional and psychological aspects of sexual intercourse and commodify the act to profit over it and exploit women and men's desire for intimacy!
why is this supposed to be wrong
>>7429695
What makes you think that?
>>7429581
>>7429585
>>7429590
>mfw Dworkin has become a meme writer on /lit/ and people pretend that a spurious accusation = a guarantee
DESTROY GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT NAOW! LISTEN AND BELIEVE
>>7429693
>implying it's unintelligent to pursue the evolutionary directive and propagate my genes
sour incel detected
>>7429714
This is a SFW board.
>>7429718
>he disagrees with me! better call him a virgin!
How does viewing pornography propagate your genes? And why do you enjoy being exploited?
>>7429659
>participating in moral panics
>ignoring the desire for selfish, impersonal lust and base release the bulk of humanity routinely demonstrates
and you say other people are too influenced by media lmao
>>7429707
dworkin isn't a lit meme, it's just one bored cunt spamming the shit day after day.
I suspect the same cunt is responsible for the upswing in crosslinking boards (>>>/r/eddit, >>>/g/ulag, etc) as a lazy shitpost response to anything they can't otherwise dismiss.
5/10 trolling - could turn into something interesting, but is clumsy and lacks style.
>>7429728
It's beautiful, anon.
>>7429659
btfo
>>7429726
Nice try, but you'll notice I said nothing about viewing porn, instead inquiring as to whether or not THE FEMALES IN THIS THREAD WANT MY DICK
WHO'S MY BITCH
IS IT YOU
ITT virgins with porn addictions
>53 replies
>19 posters
>>7429740
Thanks for proving my point. Leave /lit/ as you are clearly not fit to discuss anything intelligent.
>>7429744
Stop shitposting already
>>7429742
who /argue both sides/ here?
>>7429741
This tbqh.
STOP TRYING TO SPREAD THE DROWKIN MEME
>>7429761
It's "Dworkin".
>>7429765
I DON'T CARE
>>7429761
Nothing wrong with dark elves you fuggen racist
>>7429767
Are you triggered? Agitated? Reddit might serve as a better place for you.
>>7429771
>this is how people who watch porn speak
>>7429775
This is lazy shitposting.
I don't give two shits about dworky, but this is /lit/. If you shitpost pls try to do it with style.
I don't watch porn, I read it. Honestly haven't been able to get off to 3d porn in over 9 years. Just not very sexually stimulating and women are ugly.
>meme
Dworkin actually writes in a pretty fucking amazing tone, and her ideals were/are rock solid. Unsurprisingly, she was incredibly influential.
Nothing to meme or shitpost about.
>>7429981
We're living in a culture permeated by porn.
I fucking *wish* it were all history.
>>7429953
>>7429775
>>7429772
>>7429771
>mfw im back from the gym and the thread didn't blow up.
There is hope.
>tfw when this meme will be over faster than the Milibank one
>>7429571
Now that chrisposters are gone, we get radical feminists? You'll get bored with the board eventually, hun.
>>7430029
/his/ is a board dedicated to history and humanities, /lit/ is for literature. In other words: pls go.
>>7430103
YFW feminist literature is not literature now.
Do any of you even know what Dworkin looks like?
I actually read her until I found out what she looks like, now everything she says is invalid.
>>7430129
That's like refusing to read Sartre because of his eye or refusing to read Mein Kampf because Hitler looked like a fag.
>>7430135
>refusing to read Sartre because of his eye
That's fine if you read Camus and Stirner because they good-looking instead.
>>7430147
>they good-looking instead
>>7430129
top fucking kek, I'm going to hide and report this thread for obscenity
>>7430135
Sorry but what she said wasn't all that convincing anyway. And I'm still primal enough to judge women by their appearance and attractiveness.
>>7430152
>Sorry but what she said wasn't all that convincing anyway
Good for you.
>And I'm still primal enough to judge women by their appearance and attractiveness
And I don't give a damn about what you think. Continue to feel smug about your superficial tendencies though.
>>7430129
10/10 post made me actually laugh out loudly.
I genuinely think she has a cranky but warm smile. Exactly what you'd expect from someone of that level of jadedness.Molestation as a 9 year-old, prostitution as a young adult, sexual violence/abuse at a women's detainment center, battered by a sadistic husband for years, worked in rape shelters to help women, some of whom, among other things, had first-hand experience seeing men raping infants. Try to remain sane and still be able to lucidly write books after that.
>>7429571
I don't watch porn, I can just close my eyes and imagine anything before me. Usually I'll write a small erotic stories to which I masturbate.
Who the fuck cares about what gets you off or doesn't and why should be force people to stop doing something like this?
Actors get paid and people consume it willingly. It isn't the most healthy way to do it, but it has worked for years without too much trouble. If you are concerned about Women position on porn, I think that you need to revise your priorities: Women all around the world have much harder and bigger problems, in societies where they are equal to goods, and instead of giving THEM the importance they need, you take the resources to ban porn.
Just let people choose.
>literature
>/lit/
>literature
>/lit/
>literature
>/lit/
>literature
>/lit/
>>7430169
>someone has it worse off than you do so your problems don't matter
>exploiting sexual desires for profit is completely fine because it was done in the past
Biology is a more pertinent moving force than culture prove me wrong
>>7430179
There's nothing wrong with exploiting any desire for profit. Porn isn't the only industry that does it and you aren't entitled to stopping the behavior of consensual adults.
>>7430179
Again, who cares.
>>7430184
>consensual adults
>when i fuck the shit outta my gf and call her my slut
>when i fuck her and touch her clit and make her cum
>when she gets on her knees and lets me cum on her face
>when she says "i'm a slut only for you anon"
>when she we're having sex and says she wants me to just rape her one day
>mfw this isn't even the freakiest girl I've been with
Girls want all the dick they can get. If you haven't realized this your an idiot. They crave that cock like men crave pussy. They live for it.
But we're left at an impasse because what women want to be, and what men want women to be (A cock gobbling slut), is socially tabboo. Can you imagine how hard that is to deal with?
The result is confused feminists who just need a good fucking.
>>7430169
>Just let people choose.
Liberalism is the only ideology that everyone here agrees is crap.
>>>/basically anywhere else since liberals have the hegemony/
>>7430188
>>consensual adults
nice meme, liberal
>>7430184
>There's nothing wrong with exploiting any desire for profit.
>>7430192
it's time to stop shitposting friend
>>7430157
>this happened
>>7430193
Many women are forced to take those positions because they are impoverished and/or have no other skills..
>>>/trash/
>>7429654
That would mean BDSM is inherently sexist as well?
>>7430157
That's fucking crazy.
>>7430208
Yes. It makes women into objects of worship you imbecile shitlord.
>>7430225
so
goddess worship was common in many ancient cultures
>>7430213
Ugh. You're just so wrong okay.
>>7430231
Surprise surprise men have been disgusting pigs since the early days. Thanks for the history lesson imbecile.
>>7430236
In what way?
There is no effn way /lit/ is this bad. I'm getting baited so hard.
>>7429654
You do realize that's how sex biologically works right?
>>7430156
Keep replying to prove to him how little you care
>>7430241
>Surprise surprise men have been disgusting pigs
And women have been weak, enervate, emotional baggages since the early days.
>>7430258
We're great double bluffing ironic post-ironic false-flagging shit-posters
>>7430249
>In that you're generalising a whole fucking political thought group you dolt.
How the fuck would you ever discuss a ideology without generalizing?
>>7430225
Wouldn't that depend on what the couple is doing? The woman could be worshiping the man.
>>7429654
GAY SEX IS SEXIST
YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST
>>7430129
AHAHAHAH
that's just too real
MODS I BEG YOU
>>7430269
Gay porn has elements of sexism and commodifies sex, exploiting the individuals as objects and the purveyors.
>>7430268
So you're saying women should submit? Wow you just admitted that you're misogynist trash.
>>7430272
>Just wow. Grow up and maybe get laid?
You realize that the "men are pigs" comment is literally just as disparaging as a "women are weak" notion?
>>7430281
You do realize you're replying to an obvious troll?
>>7430278
Your trolling is impotent
>>7430281
There's a difference between actually being oppressed and mansplaining.
>>7430272
>implying that liberalism deserves respect
>implying that politicians are good role models
>>7430197
>thinking within a moral spectrum
>thinking desires aren't being exploiting by every single industry in our society
>>7430288
So you've resorted to green texting? Lol ok. You kinda just proved you're an idiot.
>>7430276
MUTUAL PHYSICAL ATTRACTION IS SEXIST.
ADULTS HAVING A MUTUALLY ENJOYABLE SEXUAL EXPERIENCE IS WRONG
THE PURITANS WERE RIGHT
>>7430290
>moral relativism
>>>/trash/
>other companies do it
Does that make the action right? And sexual exploitation is one of the more serious ones as it can be damaging psychologically and physically to all companies involved.
>>7430295
It's inherently sexist. You dolt.
>>7430295
Is strawmanning and using caps the only thing people like you can do? Does it make you feel better?
>>7430295
>IF SOMEONE ONES REACHED A CONCLUSION FOR THE WRONG REASONS THAT MEANS THAT THE CONCLUSION WAS WRONG
>>7430287
Mansplaining is a myth that tries to limit male falsification of feminist fancies
>>7430259
LOLno, that's just how deeply ingrained the assumption is for you.
As Dworkin said, sex will probably survive the destruction of male supremacy.
>>7430300
No but seriously how is mutual physical attraction sexist?
>>7430306
>Mansplaining is a myth
The word was coined by a woman describing a man explaining her own book to her as if she didn't know anything about it.
pic related
/thread/
>>7430308
sex will survive the destruction of white male supremacy, but then black males will take over
>>7430308
Describe your notion of a sexual practice between men and women that isn't sexist.
>>7430315
A woman killing a man while masturbating.
>>7430314
>At the moment it is a tool of patriarchal power structures.
So a man can't be attracted to another man?
>>7430314
>Men being limited is evidently a good thing you idiot.
So you're arguing for feminine supremacy?
>>7430324
It's completely unethical. Not to fucking mention it enables further misogyny and hate.
ITT: Deviants with porn addictions trolling other deviants with porn addictions over the evils of porn.
>>7430310
You're being baited.
Mutual physical attraction per se is obviously nice.
>>7430315
Two people genuinely loving and respecting each other, stimulating each others' body and mind for mutual pleasure.
It could look like pretty much anything. It's mostly mindset. In theory, you could do BDSM or rape play and it could still be non-sexist. However, these would presumably be *extremely* niche fetishes in a normal society. How common they are shows us that things are pretty fucked up. See James Deen also.
>>7430328
LOL your views overlap with the most extreme right wingers
>>7430157
She also claimed that she was drugged and raped at the age of like 55 while obese as fuck.
Her evidence was that she woke up with a bruise on her chest and a cut on her leg that she didn't know how she got there.
Needless to say, even feminists didn't take it at face value.
>>7430169
The argument is that the very existence of porn normalizes objectification and harmful stereotypes about women.
The funny thing is that these ideas are essentially mutually exclusive. If you're viewing porn (as most people) with an objectification-look at her ass getting rammed then you're not seeing her as a woman. But if you're not seeing her as a woman (and just a object) than you can't establish normalized attitudes towards them.
Which is aside from the infantilization of woman and the outright insult to men's intelligence that such a claim makes. An adult man isn't stupid enough to think that
>>7430207
>He'd rather that women in porno not have an incredibly lucrative job so that they aren't "objectified"
>He claims that "many" are impoverished and have no other skills.
KEK m8.
>>7429771
Yo feminsits is it cool if i get off from being keked, dominated, and being kept in chastity? Or is that still not empowering women enough? I JUST WANT TO ACCEPT MY PRIVILEGE SO BADLY.
Please let me do it. I need to be commanded.
>>7430311
The word seems vindictive and even sexist. If someone asked me to describe that attitude, I'd say it's arrogant or heavy-handed.
But someone created a word that's intended to describe that particular attitude in terms of an entire gender. It may even be more common among men than women, but to describe it in terms of a gender seems more like a "FUCK YOU MEN" than actually attempting to help understand some phenomenon.
>>7430339
Pornstars barely earn a thing for the PTSD they have to suffer.
>>7430331
What a useless observation. There's no reason to go on about porn, methods of intercourse, etc. if what concerns you is how a man thinks, not specifically how he behaves. There's no need to use the most inflammatory, outrageous language imaginable just to say something as innocuous as "don't think you're better than women." How fucking contrived.
>"Intercourse is the pure, sterile, formal expression of contempt for women’s bodies."
If you don't literally mean this, then don't say it. State your views in a more constructive manner.
Those of you who watch porn just admit it. You don't give a damn if the woman is demeaned or not. Be honest and Nietzschian about it instead of justifying through some ethics bullshit.
>>7430332
Congratulations. You have successfully been baited.
>>7430339
Dworkin was incredibly lucid despite everything that happened. Her recount of what happened there was actually found much later by her friends, and it was written sort of like a suicide note. If you look into the topic at some depth, it's not unlikely at all that it really happened. There are some men with incredibly weird sexual fetishes out there, and maybe she pissed them off with her attitude. Some men absolutely lose their mind when a woman even just gently implies them to fuck off with her attitude. I wouldn't put it past some dudes to actually do that to Dworkin. Not at all.
>>7430352
Maybe you should start actually reading her books instead of getting baited and reverse-baited and double-extra-reverse-baited about radfems on 4chan, one of the most anti-feminist websites in existence.
>>7430358
Uh, no one is saying that porn is ethical, we're saying that many of the arugments presented as to why it's unethical are self-evidently bullshit.
>>7430358
this
>>7430360
So basically you don't care about women suffering?
>>7430359
>Maybe you should start actually reading her books
Stop it. If the only people able to comment on her views are those who've read her collected works then your thread would be empty.
>>7430365
If someone watches porn, yes, they don't care.
They'll make some bullshit up about freedoms and the importance of the market, but in the end their true reason is because they just want to fap and they don't give a damn.
If that's what they want to do, I don't care. But they have no "moral" ground to stand upon.
>>7430365
We don't accept the premise that porn contributes to suffering you retard. Do you realize how fucking fallacious your comment is?
>>7430370
I'm not telling you to leave the thread, just to stop assuming inane things about the ideas of a person you know nothing about, when you could just read any of their half dozen nonfiction books elaborating on her ideals.
Woman Hating is just 200 pages, her first book, and a manifesto of sorts for radical feminism. Start with that maybe.
>>7430372
>Why aren't you voting for us, do you hate poor people or something?
Literally the language of tyrants. Attack the premise, not the motives.
>>7430379
>don't accept the premise that porn contributes to suffering
Yet it does, and you should feel free to read the book mentioned in the OP to find out about the ways in which it does.
The book is a mere 100 pages or so. (Plus some copies of the Ordinance it analyzes, which you needn't read.)
Free PDF download at http://radfem.org/. This should be in some sort of sticky. It's an invaluable website.
>>7430379
>porn doesn't contribute to suffering
>there are women forced into porn, who get psychological problems, who get physically hurt
>people's sexual desires are exploited and commodified as part of global capitalism
POOR OPPRESSED WOMEN
SHAME ON YOU PROLETARIATS
Anyone else here that agree with the anti porn arguments but still watch it because you're immoral as fuck?
>>7430389
What the fuck does that have to do with anything?
You look at porn because you want to fap and you don't care about whatever problems porn causes for yourself or the people within the industry. You don't care about the consequences. You just want to be aroused and then to ejaculate.
Don't give me that "freedoms" bullshit. When you fap, you're not thinking about "rights" and "freedoms".
So what if I watch porn? U mad brah. Fuck women I hate them anyway. It's all there fault I'm a virgin not mine.
>>7430403
I respect that from a Nietzschian perspective. At least own up to it like a fucking man instead of hiding behind shitty arguments and vague ideologies.
>>7430392
>farming doesn't contribute to suffering
>there are children forced into farming, who get psychological problems, who get physically hurt
>people's labor is exploited and commodified as part of global capitalism
>and unlike pornography, there are hundreds of millions of destitute farmers all across the world this very moment
>>7430380
Let me point out what you did. You started this thread, and in order to get attention you made some outrageous comments. Then, after people called you out on those outrageous comments and the person you implied they stemmed from, you attack those people by suggesting that that person's actual views are much more tempered than their replies suggested. But what you don't understand is that these criticsms are directed at you. If you misrepresented her views, then you can't ask us to do your work for you by reading her and replying to her actual work when you misrepresent it.
>>7430411
>false equivalence
>>7430392
Your post asumes that ALL women suffer and get forced to do porn, and that is debatable.
How can we measure that they all suffer? We can't. And sure, there are women that get forced into making hardcore scenes, and who's to blame here? The porn industry or the country/society that she lives on? This is like saying that Industries are bad because they exploit people, but you don't factor in Capitalism or the whole system.
I can't argue more since I'm against time, but I refuse to belive that all women suffer because of porn.
>>7430419
>Your post asumes that ALL women suffer and get forced to do porn
Not that person, but I don't see how it does.
>>7430404
You're a fucking idiot. ATTACK THE PREMISE, NOT THE MOTIVES. Argue why porn is bad, not why people watch it.
>>7430419
They all do. You don't need to fucking logically prove it for it to be true. It is true, and we need to work on ways to stop it.
>>7430419
You said that porn doesn't contribute to suffering whatsoever and now you move the goalpost by saying "all" women don't.
Once again, fuck off with your self-righteous bullshit. You watch porn because you want to fap. You don't care about the women who hurt because of the industry or the consequences as a result of commodification of intercourse.
>>7430392
Bitch, 1/3 people have psychological problems. And more construction workers get hurt. Stop treating women like children.
>>7430417
How so? If your goal is to reduce so-called suffering, why start with pornography when immoral, coercive, and exploitative farming practices are literally 500,000 times more common than the abuses in the pornographic industry? It's such a small-minded Western preoccupation.
>>7430435
/thread
>>7430425
>You don't need to fucking logically prove it for it to be true.
LMAO
pack up we're done here
Do those of you who see porn as somehow damaging see porn that depicts a mutual, loving type relationship as also damaging? What about hentai that does the same?
Is the issue that porn tends to treat women as an object? Or is the actual depiction of sexual activity whats damaging?
>>7430423
There have been several arguments in this thread of why porn can cause bad things and why the industry has been doing bad things.
You're a fucking idiot because I'm not "attacking the people who watch it". I'm telling you to own up to it instead of using BS justifications.
>>7430425
>THIS IS TRUE, JUST TRUST ME. WHAT ARE YOU, A WOMAN-HATING MISOGYNIST?
Yes, very convincing.
>>7430435
>your problems don't matter because other people have it worse
This thread made my day
>>7430440
It causes severe PTSD in women, both involved in the porn and out of it.
>>7430441
There isn't a single argument as to why porn "can cause bad things" to use your vague statement. If objectification were immoral than pic related would be damaging to men
>>7430445
More along the lines of "your problems are miniscule and barely relevant, so the majority of people won't care".
>>7430445
>I stubbed my toe this morning, ah shit that hurts
>WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN THE EMERGENCY ROOM IS FULL
>>7430455
>exploiting living people is the same as making statues or paintings of them
>>7430448
Do you have study that isn't self-selected that proves this?
>>7430461
I'm not talking to you.
>>7430458
>false equivalence
>>7430460
Writing a pornographic novel about Mary-Jane Fuckslut getting railed in all 10 holes is still exploitation even if Mary-Jane Fuckslut never existed.
>>7430460
Would it be different if the person you modeled your art after is real?
>>7430470
>fallacy fallacy
>>7430477
>fallacy fallacy
>>7430467
You could have just said "no, I don't have evidence"
>>7430477
Why should I defend opinions that I don't hold or idiotic things that you say?
You don't have an argument except being an emotional reactionary because a couple people on a Mongolian dishwashing forum have stated that porn has some negative consequences.
>>7430478
>fallacy fallacy fallacy
What if the woman genuinely gets off on people watching her have sex and enjoys working in porn?
>>7430484
>"fallacy" + n*"fallacy"
>>7430483
I'm not the guy your shitposting with. I'm just mixing spices into the shitpost stew.
>>7430483
rekt
>>7430483
The negative consequences of porn are _________
>>7430491
Hello reddit, was that an epic pwn?
>>7430492
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_pornography
>>7430497
So basically nothing solid or agreed by consensus? Noice
>>7430487
>>7430484
>>7430478
>>7430477
>>7430470
>>7430501
>I don't know how to read.
Noice.
>>7430497
All the result of an essentially illicit industry. Legalize it and all these problems go away.
>Why are there so many consequences to operating in the American hemp industry? Oh gee, I wonder.
>>7430505
Who are you quoting?
>>7430511
>Legalize it and all these problems go away.
Porn isn't illegal mate.
>>7430514
prove it -_- (i love esfores maymays tbqh) :^)
>>7430524
I know you are but what am I :)
>>7430497
Many of those anti-porn studies are useless because they don't control for genetics. So there's no way of knowing whether people who are more likely to commit sexual violence watch porn more often in the first place (the inherent aspect that causes a person to do one causes him to do the other), or whether watching the porn itself does.
>>7430537
Look at STIs in the porn industry.
Oh and if you want to go the unfalsifiable genetic presupposition route, what if there is some sort of genetic association between wanting to be sexually stimulated often, which porn gives, and committing sexual violence?
>>7430497
>In an earlier review of this literature Ferguson and Hartley (2009) argued that "it is time to discard the hypothesis that pornography contributes to increased sexual assault behavior".[32] They stated that the authors of some studies tended to highlight positive findings while deemphasizing null findings, demonstrating confirmation bias in the published literature. Ferguson and Hartley concluded that controlled studies, on balance, were not able to support links between pornography and sexual violence.
Cool, I guess i'll start watching porn again
>>7430519
The consequences of producing and viewing make it so it might as well be. Just bear witness to this thread, where anti-porn fellows consider pornography of any kind to be a font of the Antichrist.
>>7430544
Go ahead. The less idiots on /lit/, the better.
"There is no diagnosis of pornography addiction in the current Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (the DSM-5).[12] The DSM-5 considers such diagnosis and rejects it because "there is insufficient peer-reviewed evidence to establish the diagnostic criteria and course descriptions needed to identify these behaviors as mental disorders." "
>>7430550
>I'll accentuate things that support my view even though I got BTFO because porn clearly has some negative consequences.
Ok I'm bored so I'm going to just do a chronological rebuttal of every stupid thing i read in her book as i come along.
>Feminists try hard to fight for women at the same time maintaining special loyalties to subgroups of men. How could we not?
Categorically wrong. Feminists (as is often the case today) purport and -in some cases do- work towards helping men as well as women. There are also political lesbians as well as actual lesbians. In all cases its not particularly hard to actually uphold the ideals you pretend to support if you actually have a strength of conviction.
> I have seen a legal system designed to protect male privilege work to do just that. I have seen a generation of antirape activists
and antibattery activists sit through trials of guilty men who almost always
walk.
Good. As it should be. As the saying goes, it is better for 1000 guilty men to walk than for one innocent to be convicted. The presumption of innocence has existed since the rule or law in JUSTINIAN's time. The rest of her following observations are unapplicable to the modern era, projected rate of male rape and unreporting is spurious at best and isn't cited or referenced anyways.
>Israel both embodies and protects male Jews
Obviously, its a state build off a chauvinistic religion, who'da thunk it?
>Brutality was a synonym for strength, order for society
Brutality by its definition is something that requires someone to have power over the other. Its obvious why this interpretation would happen. Order is contingent on the imposition of power: again, obvious.
>hitler saw emotional masses as feminine
Wew lad. Go figure that a 1930s ideologue had regressive ideas on femininity, must be so relevant today. inb4 current politicans and theologians in the states. No one cares. Look at polls among young people and you'll see that views have progressively changed. This being said, there's biological precedents that dictate this stereotype: women are factual more predisposed to crying, women are factually weaker, women are more predisposed to bouts of emotion while on their period, etc.
>“the Fuhrer’s rigorous, clean-living masculinity,
When you go to the trouble to try and prove how strength, order, and resolve are attributed to masculinity this compliment is moot. And again, you're taking the word of nazis in nazi germany. If you had compliments from the Allies side of his "masculinity" than perhaps it would be a more evocative statement, but its obvious that sycophants are going to compliment Hitler whoever they expect him to want to be complimented. Unsurprisingly men like to be complimented on masculinity (especially in an era where it has positive characteristics) and women like to be complimented on femininity.
>This was the Fatherland, not girlie Mother Russia
Post hoc, ergo propter hock. In reality, the "fatherland" was a nationalistic propaganda response to the motherland name. I think we can all agree that using the same reference as the enemy is bad
>>7430543
>go the unfalsifiable genetic presupposition route
It isn't unfalsifiable. You can do twin and adoption studies.
>what if there is some sort of genetic association between wanting to be sexually stimulated often, which porn gives, and committing sexual violence?
Cool. You can't legislate unproven theories, though.
>>7430550
I feel like I'm pretty addicted
honestly I think marijuana and porn are the two biggest factors that have developed me into the bland person I am today
>>7430555
Who are you quoting?
>>7430558
Gonna be something deeper than that my man.
>>7430555
>it doesn't cause rape
>it isn't addictive
So what's wrong with it? Porn stars get STDs?
>>7430563
It causes Patriarchal Traumatic Stress Disorder
>>7430563
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=abuse+in+porn+industry
Keep moving those goal posts though.
>>7430563
>>it isn't addictive
that just seems crazy to me. I thought pornography addiction was pretty commonly known
>>7430569
>pornography addiction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_addiction
>>7430568
That's idiotic. Abuse in porn isn't inherent to the act of making porn. If there's abuse in porn, then the abuse itself should be dealt with.
>>7430197
A S H H A S S P O K E N
S
H
H
A
S
S
P
O
K
E
N
>>7430585
>what negative consequences of porn are there?
>here are some
>o-oh, um, well there aren't enough for me to consider porn as having negative consequences!
>>7430585
desu sometimes I wonder if my Christian upbringing is a big part of my guilt/depression after watching a bunch of porn
or if I would just feel that way anyway
>>7430591
Who are you quoting?
>>7429596
Sexual intimacy is pretty evil
>>7430593
I can see how it would play a part; I used to feel bad about tossing over Asian traps, now that I've seen through the societal spooks, I'm happy.
>>7430603
I donno, it just feels like it's fucked up my notions of intimacy, I can't really explain it.
this pretty much convinced me that porn has a net bad. i'm just going to stick with hentai then.
>>7430609
There's a lot more things in the mix I'd bet, our experience and perceptions are influenced by many a thing.
Is it possible to think that both porn is bad and that Andrea Dworkin is an evil moonbat?
>>7430619
Sure, why not? There are other groups that would oppose porn and Dworkin, notably religious groups.
I only wank over Vincentcc and my instagram feed, I'm a moral paradigm
>>7430635
I also occasionally jerk off to my IG feed
it's crazy how thong bikinis are becoming common here in the states
>Hitler parlayed men’s fear of other men into an aggression that degraded and destroyed most of Europe, including, of course, Germany itself.
And yet she has already established the dehumanizing and parasitic propaganda that was erected. How is one to feel like fulfilled "man" with his masculinity affirmed if he's to be killing or victimizing an enemy that's seen as a rat or bug? You're talking about a volatile political climate that's undergone unwarranted subjection because of the treaty of Versailles. Within the political climate the degree to which supposedly masculine undertones played a part are negligible. Similarly, the proposition that women were relegated to more conventionally feminine positions to affirm masculinity completely ignores the very real utilitarian purpose of simplying BIRTH. To be able to sustain a massive industrial-war machine there needed to be children birthed constantly. This also works in conjunction with the racially charged ideology. Both utterly blot out the supposed significance of masculinity in this dimension outside of a surface appearance for the purpose of deceit.
>understood how deeply pleasurable
it is to have the power of life and death in your hands
Except that it isn't. Studies have routinely demonstrated that soldiers intentionally aim not to kill (at least in WW1-2). Unless they are SPECIFICALLY and RIGOROUSLY trained to kill, and unless they dehumanize the enemy, it is in no way ordinary for men to want or be used to killing.
>[liberals have not reckoned with the male loathing of peace and domesticity or with the anger of young males at the modern state s confiscation of their weapons.
And yet the majority of the world was fighting against Germany and Japan as part of a DEMOCRACY.
> Ignatieff is positing a biological male violence that is angry at both order and civilization; and the great achievement of peace in Europe
Again there's a whole-sale ignorance of the geo-political and racial influences involved as well as the profound misery and psychology of the wars.
Is this retard honestly arguing that the soldiers of WW2 enjoyed fighting? Or that their eventual dehumanization of violence/the enemy was anything other than a coping mechanism to reconcile the CONSTANT fear and violence they undergone (something that is easily evident in rates of alcoholism and PTSD).
>How much of the pleasure is in the power per se, especially in humiliating a designated enemy, creating terror, lording it over the less powerful? Is power the foreplay and killing the act?
Idiotic. Again, attributing WW2 to masculinity and at the same time seeming to work under the premise that violence is so rampant in society that it's normal or "pleasurable".
Go ask how many people you know have been in a fight or been assaulted. Now ask if they enjoyed it. Ask murderers. Ask soldiers. Look at the rate of these crimes. THEN go beyond that and transcend "masculinity" as synonymous with testosterone vs masculinity as concep
Rape has gone down since the rise of porn
>>7430654
Is she really blaming Nazism on masculinity?
>>7430657
"Causation is not correlation" meme. Other studies are inconclusive meme. blah blah blah
Porn only reinforces the tinychat power structure.
>>7430663
Seems so. Primarily. The part i quoted is a part she was quoting in her book though.
I'm still reading one section, so far it seems ever more retarded, her theses are constantly self-refuting.
>with patriarchy intact women are raped and murdered; with patriarchy “eroded” women are raped and murdered.
I think that any reasonable person would take that as evidence that masculinity CANT be the dominating factor here.
If you eliminate masculinity's influence and it causes rape, and then HAVE it and it causes rape. How the fuck can it be masculinity's fault then?
Furthermore, she's starting to correlate the revolt of Warsaw Jews as an uprising of masculinity, yadayada etc. Its hilarious because one of her first statements is that she believes that pacifism can't always be a good idea and that aggression and self-defense (for women) is a good idea.
And yet some how she is still arguing that the Nazis and Jews were going through masculine displays and affirmations in trying to fight through war. Are women affirming their masculinity by trying to fight back? Because the obvious fact is that Nazi germany made propaganda to MAKE Germany feel like a victim of others such that "self-defense" could be justified.
And obviously the Jews were more interested in fucking self-preservation than "masculinity". Sure, could it be a byproduct of defending themselves? She's already said that masculinity (back then) was associated (as is obvious) with strength, order, and resolve (all positive qualities). So why wouldn't the jews embrace these qualities?
Its even more of a clusterfuck though because even if they supported any of these qualities i'm sure that Dworkin would extrapolate that to masculinity, and vice versa. Its almost incomprehensible non-sense.
