>It is possible I already had some presentiment of my future. The locked and rusted gate that stood before us, with wisps of river fog threading its spikes like the mountain paths, remains in my mind now as the symbol of my exile. That is why I have begun this account of it with the aftermath of our swim, in which I, the torturer's apprentice Severian, had so nearly drowned.
>>7420712
>tfw
Who /Latro/ here?
>>7420748
kek
Do you guys think this is TV adaptable? If yes, how would you suggest doing it?
> the typhon chapters in sword of the lictor
Holy shit.
>>7420910
anything is tv adaptable and no i wouldnt because fuck television
>>7420910
you'd have to get very creative to reflect the unreliability/confusion in translation. having key pieces of Severian's narration would obviously be very important.
>>7420748
lmao
>>7420712
THAT WRITING HNNNNNNHG
>>7420751
Have to finish two more Severian books and then I guess it's Latro time. I did name my Age of Decadence character Latro though.
>>7420935
Best part of that volume.
That whole confrontation is so great. The whole journey is ridden with temptations of power and it makes you think severian might actually go through with it.
>with wisps of river fog threading its spikes like the mountain paths
Awful, just awful. Fog can't be a wisp, otherwise it's smoke. "Like mountain paths"? Could a more unevocative metaphor been chosen?
Reading this is like watching a Slinky try and fail to go down the stairs.
>>7421133
What Greek works have you read? Wolfe uses so much Greek mythos and culture that you'd have to Start with the Greeks 10 times to catch all of it
>>7421148
He's a torturer not a damn author
I've never read this book, but I saw a video of a cute girl reviewing it and she didn't like it, so I assume it's great
>>7421162
I really can't bother with ancient lit. I guess I'll never catch all of it. I couldn't read Shakespeare because I don't like reading "scripts" (HE: says this
SHE: says that)
etc. Too taxing and breaks my concentration. Not reading greeks (except for some folk tales) is what kept me from reading Ulysses.
>>7421148
That's because spikes need to become mountain peaks while fog is the body of an (obscured) figurative mountain. It's outstanding scene, making an object out of something so dissimilar.
>>7421174
You'll still be able to read it, but you'll be confused by certain happenings and miss out on some nice references. At least read a book on mythology, and Herodotus.
>>7421187
I think an annotated edition would help with that stuff. I mean, I'd never read all the "backstory" to Moby Dick, it would kill my desire to read the book. I didn't read Milton before reading Blood Meridian so I'm bleeding references but what are you gonna do. Will remain a haphazard reader.
>>7421182
Stop. Read better books.
We'll be here when you do.
>>7421194
I don't read Wolfe for the plot, I read him for his storytelling skill.
>>7421196
My condolences.
>>7421197
Fuck off sperg.
>>7421197
>being this pleb
What was the last book you read? I bet it was ephermal.
>>7421200
Stop replying.
>>7421206
STOP REPLYING.
>>7421197
It's better to treat this book as dense and hard-to-penetrate literature in the style of James Joyce than as escapist fantasy reading. Only come to it if you want to do mental gymnastics. Gene Wolfe has been criticized for having weak female characters, but given the main character's increasingly unreliable narrative, and retroactive reveals later on about his earlier lies (that you have to paying very close attention to pick up on) I think a lot of the character's relationships and perceptions of women are in doubt throughout. Gene Wolfe's work is also full of erudite references that he doesn't seem to care to point out to you. The main plot of the New Sun books is implied moreso than it is stated.
>>7421235
I'll reply to whoever I want you cunt
>>7421235
This isn't your twitter blocklist, I'll reply to whomever I please.
>>7421235
>weak female characters
They have as much personality as his male characters.
>>7421373
Thanks.
-Gene W.
>>7421148
>Awful, just awful. Fog can't be a wisp,
Or he could be using 'wisp' in the sense of a supernatural spirit, like the will o' the wisp.
>"Like mountain paths"? Could a more unevocative metaphor been chosen?
Kek. The reason it's brilliant is because he later on treads those same 'mountain paths' on his journey and they are incredibly important to his memory and his narrative. Hence why he refers to them as "the" mountain paths rather than the article-less phrase of simply, "mountain paths". He's not drawing a metaphor, he's actually saying that the fog is akin to "the" specific "mountain paths" which serve as his path towards the autaurchy.
If you'd read the book you'd have known this, but instead your a psudo-contrarian faggot who wants to deride a great work and a great writer simply to appear more patrician than you actually are.
In short, you're a faggot.
>>7420910
David Lynch direction + Sunn O))) soundtrack
You know it be true
Just finished this and the first story was fucking incredible but the second and third were a real chore desu.
What should I read after this and Book of the New Sun?
I want to write a fan-letter to Gene Wolfe. How to go about this?
As an aspiring author I think it would be good to have some correspondence with an author whose work I admire.
>>7421423
>What should I read after this and Book of the New Sun?
Peaceit's objectively his best work
>>7421427
Write the letter. If you need our help you obviously have no reason to write a fan letter
To create a movie adaptation:
1. Use of colour and angles to create ambiguity and uncanny sensation. For example: I would do the scene in volume 3 where the salamander attacks as this. An angled shot from high above the street in black and white, creating the monster with practical effects but having it be too out of focus to see. The viewer would see the guards die from this angle. Another use of angles: in early scenes citadel towers would be shot in a way that you can only see the base of it or parts of it. Later would see the entire tower. Should also use non-elucidian geometry.
2. Practical effects with very very minimal cgi. Even for shit like Abaia. A few scenes would be made better with minimal cgi, though(like when typhon shows severian his kingdom).
3. Very careful casting and stick to the book as much as possible with character roles. Keep dialogue similar. None of the revision nonsense that plagued the hobbit movies.
4. Violence should be graphic but not gratuitous.
5. 4 movies.
>>7421436
I was actually asking where to send it. I'm writing it myself.
>>7421473
Postscript: actually I would do the whole movie in black and white.
The scene with the play would be one continuous shot.
>>7421476
I actually wrote him a letter myself. I got in touch with his literary agency and they said they would pass it along if I mailed it to them, so I did.
>>7421385
Did you ever really like pringles?
>>7421473
Which director do you think could pull off Wolfe?It's a rhetorical question.
>>7422107
Was the dune movie good
>>7422404
Not at all, but it was a mess for everyone involved. It's a Lynch movie in a sense Spartacus is Kubrick's.
>>7421430
I've read 13 Wolfes but not Peace. Will have to do so asap.
>>7420712
Start with one of his better quotes like the one with the bush.
is the long sun worth reading?
>>7422536
Kind of. It needed editing. Too long dialogue and Wolfe isn't Dostoevsky.
Should I read the Knight books or the Latro books after New Sun?
>>7422565
Knight is relatively easy going kinightly adventure novel and I haven't read Latro. Knight is good, just not too complicated.
If i haven't read any of the greeks and start to read LATRO will i be fucked?
>>7421503
If Long Sun is ever attempted, it should be made in the style of punch and judy, but with live actors. A performance put on for people on Blue.
>>7422536
It is, if only as a set up for Short Sun. Though, I really like Long Sun, maybe almost more than New Sun.
>>7422577
It will be odd, and you'll miss out on a lot of allusions and references. But you'll still enjoy it. It's most important to read a book on mythology and to read Herodotus' Histories. If you don't have the time or effort for thatthen you're a plebthen just read a mythology book.
>>7420712
You again? The only good part of this series is the first half of the first book.
>>7423784
We were wondering when you'd show up
>>7422107
Richard Stanley
Refn
Verhoeven
>>7423784
Last half of citadel of the autarch is probably the best thing I have ever read. Reminded me of Borges in that the ideas and the way they were presented blew my mind, not to mention very allusive fantastic prose. I'm sure Borges was an inspiration for these novels; I don't think many have made that connection, though. Probably because of a lot of obvious and glaring stylistic differences (i.e. Borges is very minimalistic and Wolfe is very descriptive and maximalist)
>>7424709
I wouldn't say Wolfe is maximalist; it depends on the protagonist really.
>>7424731
I wouldn't say so either, but New Sun is definitely a long book.
Left /lit for a year, and still the Wolfe memes are in full force. Praising these books started out as a joke years ago on here, and somehow newer readers thought people were being serious and now earnestly like this trash.
The OP is obvious troll, that sentence is embarrassing, and yet a flood of morons praising it....ughh
>>7424709
>I'm sure Borges was an inspiration for these novels; I don't think many have made that connection, though
I beg your pardon? There are as explicit as you can get references to Borges in it m8
>>7424777
I know, but it seems as though he's rarely cited as a direct inspiration. The usual ones referred to are Lovecraft Tolkien and jack Vance.
>>7424793
>The usual ones referred to are Lovecraft Tolkien and jack Vance
But you just made this up. If anything it's Vance, Borges and Proust.
>>7424768
>/lit
>...ugh
>and now earnestly like this trash
>The OP is obvious troll
>and yet a flood of morons praising it
I see you're using an old trolling style. I wondered where you learnt it from.
>>7424827
you know very well, it's yours too
>>7424834
Heh, I had forgotten. Will you show me?
>>7420751
I preferred Latro in the Mist to Book of the New Sun.
>>7421182
Doesn't it also reference the eternal return/split timeline shit going on, with that event in particular being a point of diversion? Forking paths and all.
>>7425061
Not sure it reaches that far at least I didn't infer it.
>>7424092
Stanley is pretty much a hack; his only true storytelling work came with Secret Glory, saved by a good deal through hazy VHS imagery and that old raspy voice, giving it patina I'm not sure Stanley intended. He's a horrible director with occasional bout of solid cinematography. His movies can be painful to watch and he's certainly not subtle, his occult beliefs screaming at you every step of the way. Refn is a music video director. Verhoeven could probably do it.
>>7420712
Read first book
>completely incoherent narrative, every character presented throughout is dumped in last part of the book to introduce someone new
>nothing happens, he dosnt even leave the city
>protagonist is completely unlikeable, a psychopath with no morals who seems to be confused 24/7 about everything
So how does this book have any fans exactly?
It was as bad as Prince of Thorns, the same edgy shit i just cant wrap my head around.
>>7426780
The first book is just a set up. Its about redemption, man.
>>7426780
>hurrr i only watched the first 25 of the movie why didnt it make sense
>>7427054
>the game gets better after 20 hours ;)
>the show gets better 2 seasons in ;)
>the book series gets better 2 books in ;)
no matter what medium, the retarded fans stay the same
sorry, but if you need a full fucking book to set up what you actually want to write about then you are a shitty writer and your novel isnt worth the paper its printed on, just fucking get to the point
especially since in my experience the sequels are always worse, and no amount of mental gymnastics i can do will make a book retroactively good in my memory
you need some special kind of selective perception to filter out the crappy bits as you read i dont poses or maybe so much free time you consider your own worthless anyway
Jesus Christ that was good.
>>7426780
>>7426780
>Read first book
>incoherent
>nothing happens
>So how does this book have any fans exactly?
It's not an easy read. Like Alastair Reynolds said his first attempt was difficult, but once he gave it another chance it proved to be very rewarding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0kY1kJA0jA
talks about at around 35secs
>>7427139
I like this one:
>"There is no category of human activity in which the dead do not outnumber the living many times over. Most beautiful children are dead. Most soldiers, most cowards. The fairest women and the most learned men—all are dead. Their bodies repose in caskets, in sarcophagi, beneath arches of rude stone, everywhere under the earth. Their spirits haunt our minds, ears pressed to the bones of our foreheads. Who can say how intently they listen as we speak, or for what word?"
> -- Severian, Chapter 26: Above the Jungle
>>7421148 Get over yourself.
wisp
noun
a small thin or twisted bunch, piece, or amount of something.
Eg: "wisps of smoke rose into the air"
>>7427167
Lol, this can't be serious, it's like a small step above R.A. Salvatore, and at least he doesn't take himself so seriously.
>>7427152
It's fucking awesome, you just have to be literate.
>>7427167
>or for what word?
That line gives me such chills. Wolfe always writes the best last lines.
>>7421235
>Dense and hard-to-penetrate literature
Hardly. The prose is clumsy and clunky, sure, but not that hard to understand.
>>7420712
>Typical fantasy archetypes
>Uninspired, cultureless settings
>le epik needlessly and blatantly tangential imagery
>>7421423
Not enough sex desune
>>7427467
>>Typical fantasy archetypes
which would those be?
>>7420712
Someone explain the play to me, was there a point to it that I missed? I still can't understand why Severian would give a shit about partaking in it.
>>7427167
>tfw he's talking about me
>>7427488
He was a part of a traveling troupe.
>>7426780
>Read first book
It's a 1/4 of the story. Most novels don't make much sense that way. This one moreso due to the nature of the work.
>completely incoherent narrative
I don't think you're ever read an actually incoherent novel if you feel this was incoherent.
>every character presented throughout is dumped in last part of the book to introduce someone new
Oh no characters progress the story fuck
>nothing happens, he dosnt even leave the city
He ressurectts his dog, dies twice, ressurects a woman, sees other dimensions, fights a duel with flowers, cuts off a man's head because it's his work, helps in the suicide of his love. There was plenty going on, unless you are one of those reading for the plot and magic systems kids.
>protagonist is completely unlikeable, a psychopath with no morals who seems to be confused 24/7 about everything
Are you actually using the fact you don't like him as a criticism? That's literally the most plebiean thing one can do.
Also no morals is supposed to be bad because?
>So how does this book have any fans exactly?
Fantastic prose, imagination of massive scope, weaves complex stories, writes great characters.
>It was as bad as Prince of Thorns, the same edgy shit i just cant wrap my head around.
Read Rothfuss my friend, it will be to your liking.
>>7427132
Hello reddit
>>7426780
Well, I didn't really like it after the first book also, but after the second book it all gets great. It's just problematic since it was divided into four parts, as a single novel the first book doesn't make really sense.
>>7421476
gene wolfe is dead
Why is there no New Sun dedicated wiki?
>>7428387
Because it's fanbase isn't as large and obsessive for it.
>>7421476
I had the address, not sure where I saved it.
Also I sent him a Facebook message, but he didn't respond.
>>7428370
0/10 didn't even make me check
>>7428387
Actually there is
Wolfewiki
>>7428441
Wait until it gets a TV show or movie then people will have pretended to have liked it all along
>>7421148
>Fog can't be a wisp, otherwise it's smoke
By your logic it would say "with wisps of smoke from the river fog", which is ugly and inefficient, or it should say "wisps of smoke threading its spikes", which kills the image of wisps from a larger source in exchange for nothing.
>>7421148
>Fog can't be a wisp, otherwise it's smoke.
But that's wrong.
>Fog is a complex atmospheric phenomenon. It is a visible mass consisting of cloud water droplets or ice crystals suspended in the air at or near the Earth's surface.[1] Fog can be considered a type of low-lying cloud.
>Smoke is a collection of airborne solid and liquid particulates and gases[1] emitted when a material undergoes combustion or pyrolysis, together with the quantity of air that is entrained or otherwise mixed into the mass. It is commonly an unwanted by-product of fires (including stoves, candles, oil lamps, and fireplaces).
Fog and smoke are totally different things. "Wisp" just refers to the amount/shape.
>>7421148
Have you never been in/seen a strong condensed fog by water? It can be very much appear wispy.
>>7421166
>>7428897
I don't believe it is possible to adapt. Maybe as animation.
