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Just finished Catcher in the Rye for the first time. Pretty good book, but I don't think I completely understood Holden and his motivations. Did he fear growing up and rationalized it by calling society phony or is it the opposite, he saw people for what they truly are and chose not to partake in what he views as corrupt?
Same thing bruh.
Did you like the part where he rapes his sister Phoebe?
>>7405684
Is this a meme or something?
>>7405690
Sounds like you didn't successfully read the book
>>7405680
>he saw people for what they truly are and chose not to partake in what he views as corrupt?
this. the thing you have to keep in mind is that he has a deep mistrust of adults because there was a traumatic incident in his past (the idea is that he was raped by his father). he dislikes grown ups because of their perceived hypocrisy and rejects affection and/or attempts to get close to him because he is emotionally shut-down as a protective mechanism (and proved right about the true nature of adults at various points). in any case he doesn't want his sister to grow up either, he wants to preserve whatever innocence he might have.
btw he does not rape his sister, despite what /lit/ will meme at you
>>7405684
It's funny you saying this because I remember getting incestuous vibes from some scene in the book, but quickly discarded this interpretation. I also thought at some point that Caulfield was a homo, but whatever.
>>7405694
>the idea is that he was raped by his father
are there any passages in the books to support this view?
>>7405690
It's a legitimate theory.
>Did he fear growing up and rationalized it by calling society phony or is it the opposite
Yeah
he saw people for what they truly are and chose not to partake in what he views as corrupt?
Also yeah
Holden is scared to grow up and lose his innocence which probably comes from the death of his brother at a young age. He feels that when people grow up they lose their integrity in a way. You probably picked up on it but it's interesting to read parts where he finds himself in 'mature' situations and reacts incredibly uncomfortably like when he hires a prostitute.
Fun fact about Salinger he actually saw more action in war than the majority of soldiers which ties into wanting to hold onto innocence.
>>7405706
>The dedication reads "To my mother". At first glance, you might think this is in Salinger's voice but it is intended to be in Holden's. Note that it isn't "To my parents" .
>on the first page, Holden notes that his childhood was "lousy" and that his parents would have 2 hemorrhages if he were to explain in detail. Child abuse victims often feel the pressure to keep up appearances for their abusers' sake.
>he continues "They're quite touchy about anything like that, especially my father."
>Holden begins his story at military private school, but one has to ask why he's there. His father deliberately sent him away to live at a boarding school so that he would not be reminded of his shame when he sees him at home.
>Holden is perpetually in a state of observation. He does this to create distance between himself and those who could get close to him. From watching football game from on the hill to the last scene where he watches Phoebe on the carousel, he is a watcher- not a participant. At one point he thinks to pretend to be a deaf mute to avoid interaction.
>Another salient feature of his is his sexual impotence. This is due to being molested as he is unable to reconcile his experience as a victim with what sexual maturation means for a teenage boy- becoming the aggressor or penetrator.
>There is ample symbolism to display his impotence: he loses the fencing equipment (swords) on the subway, he turns his hunting cap backwards (forwards = being a Hunter, backwards= being prey), and most obviously he declines sex with a prostitute in favor of talking.
>Holden has lost faith in the major patriarchical figure in his life that is meant to provide security and as a result has lost faith in both the natural order and humanity as a whole. In the cab, he ponders what happens to fish and ducks in the Winter. This is because he doesn't trust nature to take care of them (which it does, fish survive under frozen water, ducks migrate to warmer climates). He later notes that he's happy for the atomic bomb and that he'd gladly volunteer to sit on top of the next one they drop.
>Perhaps what's most supportive to this theory is Holden's misinterpretation of the song lyrics "If a body catch a body coming through the rye". He wants the lyrics to mean stopping children from running off a cliff (this can be interpreted as stopping other children from the fate he suffered.)
>The last scene is meant to display that Holden accepts he cannot stop Phoebe's sexual maturation. Phoebe riding on a horse on the carousel is meant to be analogous to a woman engaging in sexual intercourse with a man- eventually she will get off the horse and get on a different horse.
>"When something perverty like that...that kind of stuff's happened to me about twenty times since I was a kid."
note that i didn't say it was definitely dadrape, but that there was a traumatic incident.
>>7405724
too slow
>>7405720
>>The last scene is meant to display that Holden accepts he cannot stop Phoebe's sexual maturation. Phoebe riding on a horse on the carousel is meant to be analogous to a woman engaging in sexual intercourse with a man- eventually she will get off the horse and get on a different horse.
Your analysis seems quite thorough and I agree with you, but don't you think the statement above is a little bit far-fetched? I could see it working, but perhaps it is too freudian an interpretation for me.
>>7405734
it's not mine and I agree some of the concrete examples get farfetched, yet it's such a resonant feeling throughout the whole novel.
>>7405720
I dont know how people do to find all these observations. Makes me think im loosing my time reading.
