I hope I'm not supposed to identify with Dedalus in "Telemachus". Maybe I just respond to Buck's confidence and charisma but he seems a lot more reasonable. Patronising, maybe, but Dedalus is an insecure whiner.
Did Joyce intend him to come off like that?
>reading Joyce
>assuming you're supposed to ~identify~ with a character
>>7350120
Right, but more than Buck, at least. It's from Dedalus' perspective, in any case.
>>7350120
This, seriously. It's...? Not the kind of book where you'd have grounds to come up with these concerns...?
>>7350120
sounds like a YA reader is trying to graduate to le patrishdom
Fuck I love that first Chapter. And Stately plump Pirate Prentice going up to the roof in the morning before breakfast too..
>>7350120
I thought the whole point of Joyce was to 'identify' with everyone.
>>7350164
You forgot his being congruent to the stairs.
>I thought the whole point of Joyce was to 'identify' with everyone.
'Identify' nowadays isn't quite the right word for 'temporarily assume and understand the perspective of'
So am I just pleb or is Joyce's prose intentionally obtuse? I just recently read The Sound and The Fury with no problems but I'm really struggling with passages of Ulysses.
>>7351598
Joyce isn't writing to deliberately confuse anyone, no, it's more that Ulysses is a novel about form and language. The plot, character, allusions, philosophy etc. are important but secondary concerns.
>>7350116
Identify with who you want to, but as you'll see later on Buck Mulligan is a complete arsehole. Dedalus is the young Joyce (moving on from Portrait), and Joyce does take the piss out of him(self) a bit, but ultimately Dedalus is a beautiful character. One of my favourite in all of literature.
>>7350116
I think Joyce was making fun of himself in Ulysses desu. Although Buck Mulligan struck me as a kind of permanently-adolescent weinerhead.
Dedalus is kind of a dick to Bloom later on though and it made me feel sad. Poor Leopold Bloom.
>>7351598
I was the opposite. I had few issues with Ulysses, but The Sound and the Fury I struggled with immensely.
I think it helps that I think like jimmy. Seriously, Leopold's inner voice was so familiar to me, like second nature.
I'm not saying I'm as great as Joyce or anything like that, just that we have analogously strange thought patterns.
>>7351866
joyce was writing in stream of conscious you maroon... o' course ya felt that way... everyone does
>>7351911
>so was Faulkner
you anthropithecene
>>7351598
It is because you are an inexperienced reader. I had same problem, returned to it later, and was fine.
The Sound and the Fury is more just a test of patience.
>>7350116
I thought Buck was fatter than this.
>>7350116
why is stephgen wearing a black stole? he's not LITERALLY a jesuit priest. Why does he look like Ringo Starr? dumb artist
>>7352361
>>7352102
has anyone seen that 1967ish film adaptation of Ulysses? It was p good, realised I had been reading "an impossible person" in all the wrong tone (among other things) but the depiction of Stephen was similarly troubling for me. He always came to me in glasses, medium length hair parted or combed back, shaved and more bookish/prudish looking (shirt under sweater). This jesuit bowlcut is just all wrong
>>7352068
>It is because you are an inexperienced reader.
What defines experienced? I'm hardly new to reading or reading literary fiction.
>The Sound and the Fury is more just a test of patience.
What do you mean? The Sound and The Fury is brilliant.
>>7352443
yeah and because I watched the movie now the fucking book reads like the movie
I read the opening far more jestful than the movie is (you seem the opposite), where Buck is literally fucking around like a drunk mick or monkey.
>>7352443
How can you not see Dedalus as 'he' appears on the cover of Portrait?
>>7350116
Everyone in the book is imperfect, some more than others. Stephen does have too high an opinion of his intellectuality.
>>7353079
well that's young Joyce, he and Stephen aren't meant to be completely identical
>>7353186
I just feel like the mental leap is pretty obvious.
>read Ulysses
>it's actually good
I don't know why this came as a surprise to me, but it did
anyone else reading ulysses right now? at 150 pgs, it's great so far but probably the hardest thing I've ever read besides The Waste Land
