After seeing Gaddis pop up in a few threads, thought we could have a general talk about our favorite works of his. I've read The Recognitions, J. R., Agape Agape, and I've got Carpenter's Gothic in the mail.
Personally, I think Agape Agape is his most challenging work out of what I've read, and is definitely my favorite. It also was great to read right after reading Wittgenstein's Nephew by Thomas Bernhard.
Has anyone read all of his work, and can provide some insight or thoughts on their favorites? I've not read A Frolic of His Own yet.
And just to get some guaranteed replies, the Recognitions is better than Infinite Jest.
>>7346941
>guaranteed replies
that's not really that controversial. Now if you said it was better than Ulysses ppl would see through yr b8 easily. But if you say it's better than Gravity's Rainbow then there's a real hornet's nest to kick.
Anyways I loved the Recognitions and still think about it often. It may be one of my favourite books. Most of Otto's parts were funny and sometimes painfully relatable. Oh and just ordered J R.
>>7346941
I've read all of his stuff and Frolic is probably his best on a technical level but I don't know if I could pick a favourite, he's just absolutely flawless. Although you should read them in order as much as you can so you can see him develop his technique across his career (AA gets even more heartbreaking once you know it's essentially autobiographical and he finished it on his deathbed).
Currently rereading JR, forgot how much fun it is. The elderly saxophonist trying to join in during a high school Rheingold rehearsal, the eleven year olds reading fliers about vibrators, someone shitting in Bast's piano, the old aunts rambling when Mr Co(h)en's trying to talk to them at the start, it's way funnier than I remembered. I think people make too much of a big deal about how 'difficult' it is which distracts you from how enjoyable it is.
>>7346941
I just started The Recognitions, and it is astoundingly beautiful.
>>7347458
Not that the rest isn't fabulous, but the first 100-or-so pages are perfection.
Who is the best character and why is it Anselm?
>>7346941
I'm moving across country soon and I bought The Recognitions to bring with me for "guidance". I'm excited to start it, though I tried to read JR and could hardly get through the first 150~ or so.
The Recognitions is one of the most relevant books to today's cultural climate despite being published 60 years ago.
>>7348483
I would say Mao II is way more relevant, but I only say that because i have not read the Recognitions and only have a basic plot understanding of it. What about it makes it relevant?
>>7348558
It kind of does what DFW does: it talks a lot about counterfeiting, sincerity, social interactions. It seems like that to me at least.
>>7348558
>>7348568
I agree that it does a lot of what DFW does which makes it very pertinent. There's an anger and bitterness in it which I think is very vital, which DFW lacks. Especially in an age now where apathy has become such a virtue.
I just think that it explores so beautifully the relationship between art and reality, where both have become so fragmented and monetized.
>>7348458
JR is best character. Or Jack, who I think is sort of a self-insert.
The recognitions is absolutely beautiful writing but I just preferred the slight absurdity of JR. I haven't read A Frolic of His Own yet but that's it. I love that his last work was a 100 page paragraph basically asserting plebs will ruin everything.
>>7346941
So what themes does Gaddis deal with? What is his prose like? I want to read it but I really don't know much about him other than he's difficult and he's like some sort of proto-pinecone. Over here (mexico) he's not really known and I may have to order his books from amazon.
>>7347458
>astoundingly beautiful
>>7351464
greed, art, capitalism, religion, human frailty, stupidity, media, you know all that good stuff
>>7346941
But what do those books have in common?
>>7351486
They're some of the most esoteric books in existence.
>>7351495
There's nothing esoteric about Bolano. Stop pretending you're knowledgeable about literature on the internet.
I've read all his work. J R was by far my favourite. I had the fortune of reading Agape agape before I read any bernhard whatsoever so I thought it phenomenal, until I then turned to bernhard (who's correction I loved the most) but his books are so similarly styled that he wears me out to read now. I disliked Extinction the most, even more than old masters.
a frolic of his own and carpenter's gothic are great, I definitely preferred carpenters of the two however, even though he considered it a "stylistic exercise" (because almost all the action is confined to a single house) it almost reads like a play. Tbh though as much as I loved the recognitions, the closer I got to the end the more I realized I was just reading it as a kunstlerroman, searching for artistic quips about integrity or honesty or artistic praxis that I wanted to internalize, which is what I think it is for many people, and not necessarily a novel.
I love novels like Ulysses or The Death of Virgil or J R that hold onto a radical style for well over a hundred pages. shit is dank.also robert musil is the greatest novelist who ever lived sorry gaddis pynchon mcelroy
>>7346941
the dude opened a 900+ page book with a sentence that gave the entire point of the book, and yet still decided to write a meandering 900+ pages after that sentence. Wordsmith? sure, he was interesting in that regard. Dialogue writer? Pretty deft there too. Novelist? nope.
The Recognitions fucking ruined me tbqh. That book had literally so much stuff, it just felt like it was overflowing, that too ALL THE FUCKING TIME OVERFLOWING. Finishing it felt like I'd crossed Everest, the whole Pacific ocean, and jumped to the moon. Definitely more difficult than GR, IJ, Ulysses, etc. Gaddis knew what the fuck he was on about.
White Noise wants to be an essay, but is wrapped in a shitty novel.
>>7353023
Not sure why you brought up White Noise but I completely agree.
It just keeps going on and on about the same bullshit.
Even for a DeLillo novel it's way too winded imo
>>7351500
>Stop pretending you're knowledgeable about literature on the internet
you first
>>7353367
Mixed him and Gaddis up for a moment and realised my mistake.
Anyone here have any thoughts on Women And Men? Sounds interesting
>>7348458
>Not choosing based Otto as your favorite character.
>>7347458
The first three hundred or so pages really is the best part of the novel. I feel like I could read passage of the novel in opposite order and it would still make sense.
>>7354305
Just... don't.
>>7348558
Gaddis was definitely ahead of his time. More relevant today than ever.
>>7352935
I still think Ulysses is more difficult than Gaddis, but GR and IJ are a walk in the park compared to The Recognitions.
>>7354364
IJ is not difficult to read, just occasionally boring (on purpose). Ulysses is difficult to read but very rewarding. Gravity's Rainbow is a fuckmess of a book that is both difficult and not at all worth the effort. Unlike GR/Ulysses you'll never read a chapter of The Recognitions and zone out and think "what the fuck did I just read" -- Recognitions isn't abstract or esoteric; it's great, REALLY funny, the best of them all
>>7354401
>Gravity's Rainbow is a fuckmess of a book that is both difficult and not at all worth the effort.
I disagree. I think it is a fuckmess that is definitely worth the effort.
>>7354401
>Gravity's Rainbow is a fuckmess of a book
I don't mean to be cliche or anything, but that's what I liked about it. The whole book felt so fucking chaotic, it had so much- well, not as much as The Recognitions, but still a lot- and overall I liked the plot, the characters, etc. Tbh, I didn't read it for the aesthetic value or anything, but because I found Slothrop and all the other characters/plotlines really, really engaging.
Bump for interest
Bolaño is one of the most enjoyable writers of all time. I finished 2666 in 3 days. His prose just flows....like fear in Paris
>>7355514
>but because I found Slothrop and all the other characters/plotlines really, really engaging.
I can't tell you any characters in Pynchon outside Mason and Dixon.
They are cartoons.
>>7346941
JR seems more appealing to me than The Recognitions. The premise is fucking hilarious sounding.
>>7356805
2666 was boring desu. Does it get good after the Oscar Fate part?
