Where does philosophy currently stand? What "age" are we in?
>>7326065
At least we're over determinism.
platonism
>>7326065
postmodernism
Unfortunately, pop-scientism.
>>7326079
This honestly
Philosophical dark ages imo
>>7326065
Philosophy is dead and irrelevant. Science took over.
>>7326065
what literary work are you quoting OP?
>>7326095
You could literary replace 'stars' with 'angels' and would mean the same thing.
>>7326095
4/10, hey youre trying.
>>7326069
Scientism is very deterministic. It's a new theology. Scientists are the new priesthood.
>keepers of esoteric knowledge
>disagreeing with them or questioning their ethics gets you harangued and the contemporary equivalent of tarred and feathered
>plebs accept their conclusions without any rigor or fact-checking because they have a direct pipeline to god and are obviously 100% incorruptible
>>7326095
Pop science.
>>7326069
Thank god.
Anyway, anyone who says philosophy is dead or dying just isnt aware of current philosophical investigation. Huge advancements are being made in Set Theory and Mathematical philosophy, which many believe necessary to make any progress elsewhere.
Modern philosphy ended with Wittgenstein according to most, Analytic tradition has dominated since. Thank god the Contintental vs Analytic argument has died out, I think everyone realised theres no huge difference and that they both deal with the same problems.
>>7326065
Twitter inspired Triggerism.
Soon infants will have their vocal cords and fingers removed so that no one can ever say, write, or point at anything which offends other people.
---
Also, on a serious note, I don't understand why everyone in this thread is mad at science? Did I stumble into a Young Earth Convention?
>>7326130
>plebs accept their conclusions without any rigor or fact-checking because
Why do you care what plebs do? Their fucking plebs, you pleb. If it was ILLEGAL to fact-check scientists that would be one thing, but it's not, you fucking retard. You're just too lazy to fact check yourself and therefore you don't trust scientists. That's retarded and lazy.
>>7326122
Not really because "angels" are characters in fictitious books. Stars are pretty fucking real in case you aren't aware. Not only can we see them with our bare eyes, but we have developed much more precise and specialized measuring devices for investigating stars further. Just because YOU don't understand stars and/or the tools we have to accrue information about them, doesn't mean you can equate something real to something fictitious.
>>7326136
>>7326079
Stupid people quoting/misquoting science is annoying as fuck, but again who cares about what stupid people think? Clearly only other stupid people do.
>pic related; a metaphor for wannabe-philosophers' irrational hostility towards science, also wannabe-scientists' irrational dismissal of philosophy
>>7326095
This could have been top quality bait, but the quote from Krauss makes it a bit too obvious.
>>7326265
No one is mad at science, just the retards who regurgitate pop scientists and believe they're informed after reading an article on IFLS.
>>7326285
*regurgitate quotes from pop scientists
>>7326265
I understand very well the meaning 'stars' are given in that sentence; although they are of course concretely real, their only use for people not studying them is to use it as some kind pagan idol to give some random meaning to life.
>>7326265
I'm genuinely interested into reading up on some of this "science", where would you point me towards? Which books specifically?
>>7326065
>>/his/
>>7326265
No one's mad at science, you stupid edgelord. Scientism is a different beast. It's neomysticism wearing the flesh of empiricism. Throw down thy vanity.
>>7326336
>Scientism
There's that word. Only two people unironically use it:
1) Butthurt religious people
2) Philosophers who are mad that science stole their spotlight
>>7326285
>just the retards who regurgitate pop scientists and believe they're informed after reading an article on IFLS.
I totally understand that, it's annoying as fuck. I'll even go so far as to say it's quite possible that there are conspiracies within the scientific community since science is almost always funded by large groups of people who have their own very specific interests such as governments and universities. It's entirely possible that, considering science is a peer reviewed thing, that a lot of scientists could be bought off in various ways and mass opinion and eventually public policy could be manipulated with BS science. That doesn't stop Joe Shmoe from doing the same experiments in his garage and publishing his findings and that's what science truly is. Saying, "Yeah, that's bullshit, now let me prove it."
Also pop science is pretty enjoyable as entertainment and mental masturbation if you get real ripped and chill out to a "Insert semi-famous scientist here" documentary.
>>7326307
I see what you're saying, but some people wholeheartedly believe that angels are just as real as stars or vice versa and will use that as an "argument" for science being bullshit. While I do my best to practice trigger discipline, I still find myself triggered by non-scientific arguments presented as though they are scientific arguments against science. Makes my head want to explode.
>>7326324
See, this is what I'm talking about: lazy niggers who don't want to fact check anything for themselves and using their laziness as "proof" that all science is BS. All you've proven is that you're lazy.
Tone is hard to read on the internet. If you are 'genuinely' interested in anything I suggest Google and Wikipedia. I'm not either one of those, I'm a bum on 4chin.
>>7326336
>Scientism is a different beast. It's neomysticism wearing the flesh of empiricism.
>Scientism
Go home Alex Jones. When did you learn how to use 4chan anyway?
>>7326324
My son, do not fret. Science does not love or hate any of us. Science just "is" and "does". It is our Guide, elucidating how our world functions and our beliefs. It is Truth incarnate.
The only way to truly learn science is from the tomes of Her scholars or from Her institutions.
Science has many seraphim. Choose which seraph you would like to be your intercessor and study the works of the chosen few devoted to her so that you may drink a few sips from the cup of the Knowledge in Science. I have chosen to worship Neuroscience myself.
>>7326347
>ho are mad that science stole their spotlight
too obvious lad, though you did get some replies with the first one 4/10
>>7326358
>if you get real ripped and chill o
haha I hear ya man xD
fuck off back to reddit
>>7326359
hmm, this is all very intriguing. Can the seraphims put a curse on my stepdad for taking away my three days grace cd?
>>7326265
>>7326358
>this is neo /lit/
>>7326374
Curses are but mere superstition! How dare you spout such blaspheme. I declare you an Ignorant, branded by ignominy.
>>7326358
The stars are on the same level of 'realness' as angels for the consciousness that uses them give to some meaning to life.
The stars are only as real as the utility we can make out of them is itself concrete and speculative. There is no thing-in-itself.
>>7326358
This could almost make a good copy pasta.
>>7326358
>Also pop science is pretty enjoyable as entertainment and mental masturbation if you get real ripped and chill out to a "Insert semi-famous scientist here" documentary.
Damn, if this isn't sincere it's top shelf rage material, well played. The phrasing is especially reddit-tier.
This is why I post anti-fedora memes on this board despite being fedora enough to put sam harris to shame, to keep you faggots out
>>7326391
When the main ideology of a culture wipes out all transcendence of self and everything is reduced to the level of sense-perception, people have no choice but to use Nature (the Universe or whatever) and use this as a presupposed established truth from which they can build their beliefs.
>>7326408
>people have no choice but to use Nature (the Universe or whatever) and use this as a presupposed established truth from which they can build their beliefs.
tripe
>>7326366
>people who smoke weed aren't allowed on MY glorious shitposting website
What high standards you have for wasting time on the internet, anon. You must be the coolest, smartest, bestest kid in ALLLL of your high school.
>>7326391
Frankly we only observe things with our sense which, if you've ever taken powerful drugs, are horribly unstable and unreliable. I don't care if it's under the world's most powerful electron microscope that every scientist in the field has agreed is perfectly accurate, our base senses are wonky as fuck. I'm not sure that anything is real. But I've found that operating under the assumption that most of reality is "real" and it's been working out well so far. Truth is we'll never really know.
>>7326405
>you spend your freetime in a way that I wouldn't choose to spend my freetime, therefore you are my enemy
If it was possible to be held back in kindergarden, you would still be there.
>>7326421
>If it was
If it were*
>>7326421
pls go back to whatever board you came from
>>7326421
>bestest kid in ALLLL of your high school.
how is it possible to type like this much of a faggot
>>7326421
That's why you ultimately have to surpass this level of sense-perception, towards the level of understanding.
Start with the Greeks friend, and good night because it's fucking 1:40 am.
>>7326399
I'm chock full of pasta, baby. I've got enough for the whole class this time.
>>7326427
Accurate correction. Thank u; bb' Aye luv yoo wit awl uv migh illiteret hart, Might need you to clean up this post for me too. It's gonna be a full time job if you keep responding to me.
>>7326430
>>7326432
But the il/lit/erate get so peeved. You people bring it on yourselves. I'll shitpost more now that I know I'll get a response.
>>7326442
>trusting what the Greeks wrote with their faulty hands and eyeballs
>trusting myself to read it correctly with my faulty eyeballs
Might not even be reading Greeks. Maybe I'm schizophrenic and I keep changing "Greeks" with "Tongan". Tongans don't know shit. Or maybe they do, and the rest of us are schizophrenic. Or maybe we're all schizophrenic space slugs on a farm somewhere. Maybe this is the Matrix. Maybe it's the schizophrenic Matrix.
ism-ism
>>7326470
I think science is dumb. All it ever did was explain stuff that's common sense and tell us that this thing is something we'll never know about even though that thing is the most important thing like why do we exist and if we exist. That's why science is for schoolchildren.
>>7326490
You're right, we need to abolish science as soon as possible. You should start by forgetting the English language and then smashing your computer. Don't use a hammer or anything, that's science bullshit. Even a rock is pushing it.
>>7326502
upvoted
>>7326502
100% agree. Latin is so much better but I hate that science took it over.
>>7326538
>language
That's sciencism for you. That's how they get ya.
>>7326543
No Latin was created by Zeus but you scientists ruined it all.
We've entered the memetime
Why can't we all just die? We could finally say that everything has been said
>>7326549
Zeus is some bullshit created by sciencism supporting statists. All started with that faggot Romulus.
>>7326554
First death by shitposting?
>>7326552
>pic
>>7326571
What are you implying? That it's wrong because it hurts your feelings?
>>7326580
He posted a picture anon. The implication was that the picture was posted.
>>7326584
So you posted a picture for no reason? Do you normally post random pictures for no reason at all? That doesn't make any sense. Clearly the implication was that eugenics is wrong or false because it hurts people's feelings. Everything comes down to feelings to the liberal. Try using logic for once, please.
>>7326599
ur tryin to trik me
>>7326599
>So you posted a picture for no reason?
Person who posted the picture in question here. I posted it because >>7326552 said post sciencememe. I only have two science-ish pictures.
I didn't "imply" anything. I literally didn't even write anything. You're looking for an argument/debate that isn't there. I really hope you don't talk to people in real life like this.
Also, not that it matters, but I'm totally for eugenics and not even a liberal. Hopefully you'll be removed from the gene pool for being such an uppity, attention thirsty cunt.
>Philosophical LITERATURE is allowed on /lit/.
What does this even mean? all written work is technically literature, does that mean we can talk about philosophers still or is it literature in the narrow sense (things like Thus spoke Z and The Stranger)?
>>7326616
>all written work
>philosophy
If those are the only two requirements then every post here is philosophical literature no matter what it is about or whether it even makes sense. Depending on how loose you want to get with the definition of philosophy that is. An argument can also be made that all philosophy must be allowed to be discussed, no matter how out there it is. Sounds like a loophole.
>>7326626
I'll invite the containment boards.
>>7326613
First of all, you don't have to write anything explicitly to imply something. You posted a picture that implied eugenics is wrong because it hurts your feelings. A picture is worth 1000 words. You said something even if you didn't think you did. Also, if you think eugenics is meme science, then you clearly don't support eugenics. I debate liberals in real life all the time. They always end up looking silly
>>7326645
>you don't have to write anything explicitly to imply something.
Sure, I've been in a mental ward before. I know how easily you schizoids are triggered. My bad.
>You posted a picture that implied eugenics is wrong because it hurts your feelings.
lel
>I debate liberals in real life all the time. They always end up looking silly.
You should have your own TV show. I bet the amount of spaghetti you generate on a daily basis is enough to feed the homeless in your area. The problem is logistics, how do we deliver all the spaghetti to them when it's flowing out of every pocket and orifice on you.
Here's another image for you. If you have another episode you best call the professionals. I'm really not qualified to work with the mentally unstable.
>>7326130
>I clearly don't know anything about science, but I somehow think I'm better than people who treat science like the new God
Real fucking sick of this meme tbpgdhwuf (to be perfectly god damn honest with you family (long-form of f-am))
>>7326666
Servant of the false prophet pls go
>>7326069
Most philosophers are still determinists though
Are there actually people that think science has supplanted philosophy?
You have your answer OP, this is the age we're in, we've shifted away from ontological truth and into a howling wilderness where every faced of our existence is interpreted under the light of sheer unabating yet also completely misguided skepticism.
This is precisely what killed the greek schools, we had philosophy that was influenced by the greeks thanks to people like aquinas further enriching the thought of aristotle and presenting it for new generations, imbued with new truth.
Now all we have are rogue intellectuals like habermas and his crew.
People are dead inside and they simply don't care about anything but themselves.
It is exactly the same story with the arts.
This is the eschatological endgame, complete freefall, instantiated in part by the perception that this freefall is actually progress; and subsisting in the ignorance and pride of materialists chasing shadows on a moonless night.
But in the midst of it there will be a rebirth, we are already beginning to see it.
>>7326730
Facet*
>>7326265
>Stupid people quoting/misquoting science is annoying as fuck, but again who cares about what stupid people think? Clearly only other stupid people do.
the citizens of the city and clients of companies, which means 99% of people in the republics institutionalizing the liberal democracy
>>7326645
Are you telling me that perceptions of right and wrong are to be taken as mere appearances?
Because there are reasons why this is wrong.
And from this there are also reasons - good reasons - why eugenics is wrong.
>>7326730
>People are dead inside and they simply don't care about anything but themselves.
which was always the case. the problem is not that. if you want a problem, it is that the people governs now.
>>7326730
why cant people just accept that philosophy is ridiculous waste of time? Philosophy is dying and it really doesn't matter. Philosophy destroyed itself when philosophers pushed the whole 'everything is subjective' thing. Now, because philosophers decided they were too intellectual for ideology, all that's left is sophistry.
>>7326791
What the hell do you mean philosophy is dead? That shit you just fucking said is philosophy, for christ's sake.
>>7326065
The one of the sterile inter-subjectivity created by the rationalist-liberal to save himself from his sterility of his faith in objectivity, rationality, reality, human rights.
>We no longer ask what are ''things'', but how these things are expressed in society (or rather, how we talk about these things, in knowing that these things are manufactured by us). For instance we no longer ask what is intelligence, but what passes as intelligent. We no longer ask what is moral, but how morality is expressed in our language. (Wittgenstein)
this leads the rationalist-liberal to fetishize, the day before yesterday the books, yesterday the screen of the calculators, today the screen of the entertainment industry, for the greatest fantasy of this kind of rationalist is to merge what he calls the knowledge (for the sake of knowledge itself) and its free access, praised by the pure rationalist, into what he calls the leisure, praised by the pure liberal-libertarian (or even the liberal-libertarian (typically from the middle class) who love to think as himself as a rationalist).
Of course, the screen individualizes further the society. There is a unification of the content, that everybody watches the identical content, on different screens. The screen makes concrete the history. there is now the privacy of emails that the historians can no longer access, as opposed to the written letters accessible after the death of the recipients but paradoxically people still expose their lives on their screens, but the content is precisely the one delivered by the leisure industry. The history is now done by the companies, with their archives being the new inheritance of the humanity. This kills the historian.
The morality is equally done by the companies who manage to pass themselves as moral agents towards their clients.
The individual in our society is
-a citizen, but everybody now understands that politics in democracy is sterile
-an employee, but everybody now understands that they are only clogs.
-a consumer, where we can act morally (anything beyond the human rightS) with the companies trying to be our friends and trying to give us something else than pure leisure
>>7326755
Your problem is with democracy. That's an entirely different conversation, but I agree. It's a shit system. However dumb people aren't just any brand of dumb, they are manipulated by the smartest people in the world. All those that actually control human society. They are the ones who use the terribly stupid masses to advance their own goals. The masses are really just like bots in a giant ddos attack. Zombies that don't think, but someone who does think is behind it all. If you don't like the way it's going then you're gonna have to beat them at their own game. That's a toughy. If /lit/ were half as smart as they think they are they would've already put together a secret society to rival the established order, but generally /lit/ isn't that smart. Well read and quick to argue, but not really that smart.
>>7326762
What I mean to convey is that there are those who are actual contemplatives but they never make it onto the intellectual stage due mostly to academic politics.
Most intelligent philosophers take refuge in the catholic church.
I agree totally on the last point.
>>7326791
>Philosophy destroyed itself when philosophers pushed the whole 'everything is subjective' thing.
That's exactly my point.
But also, this view is not proper philosophy, which of course is why it killed philosophy when it was propagated by unlearned "intellectuals".
Which is very similar to our situation in the year 2015.
>>7326846
>Most intelligent philosophers take refuge in the catholic church.
What's your citation for this.
>>7326791
You obviously no nothing about modern analytic philosophy. Or really philosophy in general.
ITT people with no familiarity with contemporary philosophy.
>>7326846
>not proper philosophy
that's just your opinion. i'm not even one of those "everything is subjective" people, but youre obv. talking out your ass here senpai.
Science is stupid t.b.h.
>>7326791
>Philosophy destroyed itself when philosophers pushed the whole 'everything is subjective' thing
no,
This is the result of the detrimental divide between what is now philosophy [which splits into analytic supposedly close to science and continental/phenomenology which is posited to be far form science] and what is now physics [which splits into theoretical physics and experimental physics]
This is why the rationalism-realism is the default stance wherein the students leaving the university have faith. These students hardly question this faith until late in their careers, and, for the few who question their stances, generally, when they reconsider, it goes either into scepticism, or into pathetic chatting on fields such as philosophy and theology that they do not master at all, especially when they go in the entertainment industry in doing conferences, selling books and documentaries...
the same applies to biology thanks to the trendy mechanism [not theory] of the evolution. Many do not reflect on what they say and happily claim that, for instance, we are on earth to spread our genes.
the divide is about reason/imagination and practise. Since the antiquity, the philosophy is the activity of the philosophers, those who are not sage, but those who love the sophia in starting to wonder, in ontology, “why the things are such they are?”, and certainly more important, those who practise the sophia via the praxis. From the greek perspectives, the philosophy is the activity which is the ethos, to live the good life, as we go along our exploration of the truths, from the logic, of the knowledge, through the episteme, typically, throughout the reflexivity, once we have perceived our belonging to the world.
>>7326900
No, I am not.
Saying "hurr it's just science and stuff, everything beyond that is just biased and/or imaginary" is not philosophy.
On a good day I might be willing to call it the philosophy that kills philosophy.
Post Modernism is over.
The state of philosophy is dead. You have pop philosophers that just say whatever gets them hits. This might mean being like Zivek and intentionally just saying controversial shit, it might mean feel good shit, or if you are really lucky regurgitating and dumbing down old philosophy ideas. For instance new atheist humanists and their utilitarianism.
In order to pull sales the books need to be either dumb downed which requires that we have idiots write the books. It should also be mentioned that of the garbage philosopher that is being peddled none of it is advancing the field, it's all just regurgitating old points. Who has the balls and the brains to answer the difficult problems like Baudrillard? Why even bother mentioning they exist, just churn out trash as fast as you can, 1 book a year!!
It may very well be that Kierkegaard represents the only real philosopher of the 20th century.
>>7326130
look at this anti-science ignoramus.
Maybe you should take some time to learn about some basics of science, its not esoteric at all
>>7326502
>language and basic tools are science
I know what you're getting at but that's not really what we mean by science
You're also
>implying that the fact that someone disapproves of something means they should not benefit from whatever benefits the thing brings
>>7327375
Nah he's totally right. Science is the new God.
abstract ethics
usually revolving around tumblr and the rest of the internet
we're in the meme age
>>7326358
wew
e
w
>>7326470
>>trusting what the Greeks wrote with their faulty hands and eyeballs
>>trusting myself to read it correctly with my faulty eyeballs
>Might not even be reading Greeks. Maybe I'm schizophrenic and I keep changing "Greeks" with "Tongan". Tongans don't know shit. Or maybe they do, and the rest of us are schizophrenic. Or maybe we're all schizophrenic space slugs on a farm somewhere. Maybe this is the Matrix. Maybe it's the schizophrenic Matrix.
>>7326791
0/10
>>7327054
>This is the result of the detrimental divide between what is now philosophy [which splits into analytic supposedly close to science and continental/phenomenology which is posited to be far form science] and what is now physics [which splits into theoretical physics and experimental physics]
>This is why the rationalism-realism is the default stance wherein the students leaving the university have faith. These students hardly question this faith until late in their careers, and, for the few who question their stances, generally, when they reconsider, it goes either into scepticism, or into pathetic chatting on fields such as philosophy and theology that they do not master at all, especially when they go in the entertainment industry in doing conferences, selling books and documentaries...
>the same applies to biology thanks to the trendy mechanism [not theory] of the evolution. Many do not reflect on what they say and happily claim that, for instance, we are on earth to spread our genes.
I've read this before lad.
>>7326791
>Iknowphilosopyfromwiki the post
oh god, this thread gave me cancer
>>7327461
not him but how would you explain all the observations that match to seemingly unrelated phenomena (eg spectrum lines of gases match to spectrum lines of stars) without positing that stars are hot gases ?
>>7326809
>>7326846
>>7326878
>>7327012
>>7327054
>>7327489
>>7327504
>all this cu,cks posting substance-less replies
I could literally go to science daily and find 10 things which science has discovered this month and are useful in the grand scheme of things, but I'd be hard pressed to find anything valuable in philosophy the same way in the last 1000 years, because philosophy is just bullshit substantiated by more bullshit with no real objective but helping armchair faggots masturbate over themselves but still want to feel important.
>>7326470
hey dogg the tongans knew how to build a great fucking boat
>>7326079
this desu
>>7326065
Is philosophy even alive anymore OP? If anything, we focus on science as an end-of-all philosophy due to it's empirical nature.
The last legitimate movement in philosophy was, in my opinion, objectivism. Today, if anything, we have political correctness dominating our thoughts.
Alright, I am getting really tired of people throwing around the word "science" like it means something. Science is just the term that the dogmatic supporters of it made up so that it would be unquestionably accepted by the vulgar masses. Call it what it is: natural philosophy. It is nothing more or less than natural philosophy; and, what is more, we really cannot give it any merit as a be-all-end-all of metaphysics given that it relies on empiricism and induction, not to mention that it presupposes materialism without reason. The only reason that natural philosophy gets any more attention and is more widely practiced today is because it sells; and it sells because it makes the lives of the masses more simple, more comfortable, and more convenient.
>>7330203
- Sent from my iPhone
>>7326817
i like this post
I think that we must be radical in refusing any (super-)structure above the individual, in acknowledging that the rational motto that ''logically inferred statements are knowledge'' will always be undermined by the superiority of knowledge through direct sensations. This gears us towards mysticism, phenomenology, mediation, prayers, contemplation, whatever people call this where we can discover for ourself that we can be self-less, no longer self-centred, no longer self-interested; instead of the liberals trying to advocate for selflessness through the imposition of their legal rules (to other people who are seen, by them, as less selfless than them), but still remaining schizophrenic in claiming just after this that is a good thing precisely to express the self through enjoyment and careers...
Any structure will be always be seen arbitrary to more or less people and, once that these become vocal in the structure (but still remaining powerless), they will always be a threat. We must be more narcissistic in the sense that we focus more on knowing our self than on relying on faith in statements from whoever is seen as reliable at the time of our quest for knowledge (today the scientist, yesterday the religious institution). it is time to be narcissist without being selfish.
>>7330529
Catholicism took the rationalist trend as opposed to Orthodoxy's mysticism. That said, the monastic life that is the main draw between Buddhism and Christianity was largely shut down by the Reformation in Europe. The Reformation was not only anti-clerical but anti-monastic so Europe's contemplative tradition is more older material and thus harder to get into for the Catholic parts of Europe that retained the monastic tradition despite. There was exceptions though. The Imitation of Christ is the standard go-to book for Catholic ascetic, akin to Orthodoxy's Ladder of Divine Ascent. More recently there is Thomas Merton who is a mid-20th century contemplative and fantastic author on both the western tradition and it in comparison to Eastern religions.
>Haven't been on /lit/ in a year
>Come on /lit/
>Open this thread
>/sci/ faggotry
>Nope.txt
>Close tab
Fuck y'all.
>>7326065
max picard is a good introduction to contemporary platonism.
>>7330210
science is a tool more than a goal.
>>7326065
The age where philosophy is boring, soulless and pretentious. Also there are millions of idiots following either brainless left ideas (SJW) or autistic right ideas (/pol/tard).
>>7326065
>Where does philosophy currently stand?
It's falling quickly down the decadence spiral.
>What "age" are we in?
The Age of Shit-Posting.
>>7326069
>At least we anti-intellectualfags are over determinism.
ftfy
>>7331780
People has always been boring and stupid. In the past you just didn't get to be given a fuck about by anyone if you weren't extremely smart or original, and people didn't have internet to show everyone else how stupid they could be.
>>7331822
>People has
fuck
