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Is Nietzsche the only thinker who offers a secular morality with the same depth, symbolism, aesthetics and grandeur as Christian morality?
>>7323302
His morality doesn't even come near, and isn't secular.
>>7323310
How is Nietzsche's morality not secular?
>>7323318
Because they have a spirituality, and Nietzsche wasn't a secular.
>>7323318
He has moral categories, and doesn't distinguish the church or the state as existing independently of them.
>>7323320
He's probably talking about a few of them: ASZ is especially notable for its aesthetics and symbolism, but Beyond Good and Evil is still heavy in allegory; Twilight of the Idols, The Antichirst and most his work is secularism against various gods, which are also referenced in ASZ.
Go ask someone to specify which GRRM they're referencing while you're hall monitor.
>>7323302
In the West? Lucretius has beautiful phrasing which simultaneously recognises gods as aesthetic symbolic language of great value and dismisses their relevance as gods.
>>7323320
Thus Spake Zarathustra
Anyway, I think of Nietzsche as more of a door opener than real theorist of morals. His true value lies in ripping open the flaws of Christian and especially Kantian ethics and leading ways to which morals can evolve on their own.
His influence really is underrated. The wake he left in 20th century ethics is profound, only surpassed perhaps by Hegel.
>>7323302
Morality is just a spook desu senpai baka
>>7323332
Er, so do utilitarians.
>>7323302
To be fair Kantian ethics are secular. He proposes God as being perfectly divinely moral, as well as have perfect infinite reason ala Aquinas, but this is only an afterthought and not a part of his argument.
>>7323347
Egoism is a moral theory though.
>>7323357
I thought ownness was a moral theory and ego was just a metaphysical one.
>>7323351
Kantian ethics are dry tho
>>7323341
Anon-chan, d-co you want me to put it in your boipussy?
>>7323374
What does this even mean? That because Kant is difficult to study its not worth listening to? Grounding is powerful and deeply moving, albeit not poetic.
>>7323374
>wet ethics
yikes
>>7323395
... i th-thought we w-were all qt grills today, anon-sama. my bad.
w-we could d-dogcouple if you're into cynicism?
>>7323408
>What does this even mean? That because Kant is difficult to study its not worth listening to? Grounding is powerful and deeply moving, albeit not poetic.
uh, because he called marriage "a contract for mutual use of the sexual organs". that's dry as hell in two ways i can think of.
>>7323350
so they too might not be secular
>>7323429
I don't think you know what "secular" means.
>>7323374
Kant's ethics is probably the easiest thing he wrote.
Saying that it's "dry" is an infantile argument.
Christian morality is just a remix of Aristotle which can be a secular morality.
>>7323830
platonism for "people" [sic] can never be secular, because it's connected with parmenides' eternal and unchanging being aka The One[tm]
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/nietzsche/1886/beyond-good-evil/preface.htm
>>7323857
Mind explaining your reasoning there?
>>7323936
i meant that it wasnt a secular concept to begin with. plato and aristotle need a self-subsisting eternal order for their forms or essences. parmenides' being is the only static meta-basis where their stuff can be "pinned". this thing later reappeared as "god" in christianity, making the god of old testament look like a lower level admin.
>>7323851
He identified two types of morality (master and slave), proclaimed slave morality to have permeated society, and regretted that. The implication is doubtless that he espoused master morality
>>7323302
I think ALOT of what Nietzsche said is accurate, especially on thoughts relation to form.
And Christian morality is pretty interesting, but i feel as if Nietzsche' strong personality got in the way of his writing.
Lots of what he said is implied negatively in terms of the other party, despite its accuracy.
>>7323320
fuck off fag. Philosophy is literature m8
>>7324236
Rlly what im trying to say is that I don't think it was without objective, and objective is ok if it relates to your period or an unfolding event, Christianity was already extremely well established, which causes him to take on an extremely angsty tone
He started with the greeks
No, not at all top kek
There's no one more overrated than le moustache man
>>7323302
Christian Morality is on par with Christianity.
Its all one big circle jerk, I wished he got to the real issues and stopped being so concerned with other people, he failed to question himself and instead questioned everybody else.
His insecurity is at the forefront of his writings lol
>>7324251
I have studied Nietzsche extensively and if you drop the philosophy and look at it as a timeline, It essentially a man losing himself to his insecurities, and unfortunately it lead to his death.
like the Übermensch concept. He enjoyed his suffering but chased it a little too far when he realized it was effecting him more deeply than he had intended.
>>7324251
>>7324259
I'll end the thread by saying - If you stop looking at Nietzsche as being objectively good; You might understand him a little better and realize that his life was horrible and his writings are merely a reflection of his existence, while they are structurally good, they are pretty negative, more so than realistic.
>>7324280
Obviously because I'm not leo strauss and i'm not giving a seminar but I did study Old mate Fred for 12 months and Why learn how to ride a bike if u aint got one? Just wish ppl were more sympathetic and unbiased towared le tash rather than flattering him with some sort of eternal grungy glory.
>>7323302
Not sure. But the utilitarians, Bentham, Mill, Sidgwick, and so on, have the advantage of offering a morality that is actually true.
>>7323830
Wow that is so wrong please read Nichomachean Ethics and the New Testament
>>7324301
You're right, it's mostly a ripoff of the ethics of rabbi Hillel
>>7324259
He was literally physically ill.
Stop posting retarded shit like "hurr he realizd shoppy wuz roite" or I'm going to put my thumb through your amygdala and shitpost made-up psychology about you on the internet when you're a vegetable
>>7324259
of course that our lives influences our perspectives
>>7324353
I didn't deny that did I? and If i did i think it was in the context of writing about life objectively... If you don't you cease to be a philosopher and are essentially writing edgy memoirs
>Lambs should stop bitching about the birds of prey since they're just following their nature.
>Yet I won't stop bitching about the lambs following their nature.
>>7324199
Master morality isn't exactly a model of morality like OP suggests though. Having a master morality is basically having any values as long as they are your creation/decision: you can't really talk about the "depth, symbolism, aesthetics and grandeur" of all master moralities alltogether.
>>7324372
>>Lambs should
>implying Nietzsche said anyone should do anything
Simpleton Christfag detected, shoulds and ought tos were the very things he was against
>>7324367
oh, I did not know that you were still at the stage of faith in objectivity, truth and rationality.
>>7324367
>writing about life objectively
somebody hasnt read beyond good and evil chapter 1
or maybe somebody hasnt read nietzsche at all
a philosophy of the future isnt supposed to be objective
Nietzsche was a hack desu.
>>7324420
then you underestimate his radicalism.
will to power creates all truths, whether philosophical or scientific.
>>7324392
no nietzsche is an idiot. give it up
>>7324392
Then his philosophy is pure nonsense.
>>7324479
>everything except deontological ethics is nonsense
>2015 there are still people on /lit/ who believe this
fug
>>7324496
>Nietzsche tells people to stop assigning blame, yet he constantly assigns blame
>Nietzsche thinks people "should" not do anything, yet he keeps telling them what they should do.
Nietzsche has some interesting ideas, but don't try to act like his philosophy even approaches coherence.
>>7324505
Nihilists are just stupid in general through no fault of their own. They lack the neural circuitry to understand abstractions like "oughts" and morality.
>>7324505
I am not the mouth for these ears
>>7324199
He dosn't attach value to either master or slave morality but rather, the ubermensch is the man who experiences both, and negates both
>>7325292
It is literally impossible to do something that cannot be categorized as either stemming from master morality or stemming from slave morality
>secular
>morality
Powerful spookiness right there
the only smart nihilist i knew converted to christianity and became very religious when he hit 25
>>7324505
What do you take to be some definitive examples of incoherence in Nietzsche's writings?
>>7324291
>Utilitarianism
>True
Kek, good god. Please explain how ourely empirical observations can be made to justify Normative claims.They cant, and happiness being good is a tautology
please move philosophy threads to /his/ which is the philosophy board.
kindly saged and reported
>>7326274
Oh fuck off. Until philosophy threads start getting pruned, /phil/ threads will still take place on /lit/.
>>7323351
>Kantian ethics are secular
Actually, it's not. read on the basis of morality by Schopy
>>7324510
Mah nigga!
>>7323302
What are the two best translations for Nietzsche so I can always tell someone that their translation is shit when ever they post here thanks.
>>7326688
anthony ludovici and nikanor teratologen is all you need
>>7326688
>translations
Short answer: yes.
>>7326688
Kaufmann and Holingdale, though Will to Power is translated by both as a collaborative effort.
