Does anybody have any thoughts on canto 4
this is my summary
Dante wakes up due to the lighting, Virgil tells Dante to follow him as they descend in to the abyss and Dante objects because he think Virgil is there to confront him as well. They enter the first circle and there many are great historical figures. They did not commit great “sin” but were batisased or were born before a time of Christian. Those linked to god but born before the church are blessed and are sent to heaven Adam, mosses, able, Abraham and David. Lost people and live in “desire”. Dante feels pity for the great people that are sent to the first circle. The great poets and writers honor Dante and he was considering one of them. Saw great Greek figures and Brutus is in circle 1.
and my thoughts
This seems to be heaven for those interest in old literature and Dante seems to enjoy this circle of hell and oddly enough pity’s the dammed. Hell instead is not only for the morally reprehensible but the misguided even if that did not have a chance to know god. This is also interesting because he starts his journey to hell with something good and this may because it’s is subversive to the thoughts of the reader. Dante also purposely makes the conditions of the circles broad absolutes and questions the legitimacy of that system and therefor questions God.
“He made me enter”
Dante use the “made” in this sentence, “He” referrers to Virgil, this implies that there was some element of force but since Virgil is a shade he can apply none, however this could mean that Dante has reached the point of no return in his journey to hell and was forced by his circumstance and not Virgil himself.
(Canto 4 Henry Wadsworth Longfellow translation in 1807-1882)
*Is not referring to the Brutus that killed Caesar to but an ancestor of Brutus that founded the roman republic by killing his superior.
Brutus and his predecessor commit similar acts, have similar intentions but their results seem to be the deciding factor. Dante purposely put these Brutus on opposing circles of hell in order to show what “divine justice” gives propriety, God only seems to care about what results from the actions.
This raises questions to what Dante considerers homosexuality as most Greeks did engage in homosexual behavior, could actions negate sins, does Dante considered homosexuality the romantic relationship between men rather then sexual another possibility is Dante lacks a lot of information on the Greeks and is ignorant to this.
“Lamentations none but only sighs and this arose form sorrow without torment”
This could simply be boredom as there their eternal plane of existence is lack luster and uninteresting and it may be torment for such interesting people.
(Canto 4 Henry Wadsworth Longfellow translation in 1807-1882)
>>7835826
...brutus?
>>7835816
i mean what do you want to know about it? it sets forth the standard/recurring theme of the commedia that human knowledge, logic, reasoning, and striving, no matter how virtuous and accomplished, cannot propel one into heaven. only the grace and mercy of god can achieve that, as evidenced by the reference to the harrowing of hell in which christ came down to rescue certain figures from limbo. dante also sets himself up as the equal of the renowned poets of old - homer, horace, etc. - by conversing with them as equals, and perhaps also, sets himself up as their superior since he is able to progress beyond them.
>>7835832
>This could simply be boredom as there their eternal plane of existence is lack luster and uninteresting and it may be torment for such interesting people.
it's not boredom. it's suffering from the knowledge that they shall never feel the light and grace of god, for all eternity.
Thank you for you detailed reply, I was mainly looking for a discussion. I have not finished the book these were merely thoughts i had while reading.
>>7835839
In line 127 it states "I saw that Brutus that drove out Tarquinius"
This refers to lucius brutus and not Marcus Brutus who assassinated Julius Caesar
they did about the same action but end up in different parts of hell.
>>7835963
>they did about the same action but end up in different parts of hell.
I think you should be careful to compare the two Brutus' too much. Lucius Brutus is a famous Roman in his own right and there are vast differences between Julius Caesar and Tarquinius - Tarquinius was partly murdered for revenge of Lucratia for example.
But interesting thought non the less.
>>7836013
thank you for the information, what is that you find interesting
>tfw Limbo is the most patrician circle
>>7836269
this comment just revealed yourself to be a pleb friend. while at first glance patrician and attractive, dante will show you through purgatorio and paradiso the uselessness of earthly vanities like "learning" and "culture." in the glory of god all other concerns must fade, and only by reconciling that with your own beliefs can you begin to hope to attain ascension into the celestial spheres and approach the empyrean
>>7835832
>“He made me enter”
>Dante use the “made” in this sentence, “He” referrers to Virgil, this implies that there was some element of force but since Virgil is a shade he can apply none, however this could mean that Dante has reached the point of no return in his journey to hell and was forced by his circumstance and not Virgil himself.
>(Canto 4 Henry Wadsworth Longfellow translation in 1807-1882)
Please note that the priginal "Mi fé entrare" does not necessarily have the implication of force, but could be translated with a more neutral "he let me in" or "he showed me the way".
I also think you are going to far from the point with a modern view of the text. The crux of Limbo is that it's for those who were born before the salvation brought by Christ. There is neither subversion nor ignorance in this.
