Why haven't you read Yang Zhu (aka Yung Chu) aka The Spookbuster of the East?
>Life is full of suffering, and its chief purpose is pleasure. There is no god and no after-life; men are the helpless puppets of the blind natural forces that made them, and that gave them their unchosen ancestry and their inalienable character. The wise man will accept this fate without complaint, but will not be fooled by all the nonsense of Confucius and Mozi about inherent virtue, universal love, and a good name: morality is a deception practised upon the simple by the clever; universal love, and a good name: morality is a deception practised upon the simple by the clever; universal love is the delusion of children, who do not know the universal enmity that forms the law of life; and a good name is a posthumous bauble which the fools who paid so dearly for it cannot enjoy. In life the good suffer like the bad, and the wicked seem to enjoy themselves more keenly than the good
>>7461554
Because afaik no works written by him (or even his followers) actually survive.
Must admit, though, assuming Mencius isn't just making shit up the 'would not pluck a hair to save the world' thing is stone cold.
>>7461554
be narcissistic without being egotistic
>One hundred years is the limit of a long life. Not one in a thousand ever attains it. Suppose there is one such person. Infancy and feeble old age take almost half of his time. Rest during sleep at night and what is wasted during the waking hours in the daytime take almost half of that. Pain and sickness, sorrow and suffering, death (of relatives) and worry and fear take almost half of the rest. In the ten and some years that is left, I reckon, there is not one moment in which we can be happy, at ease without worry. This being the case, what is life for? What pleasure is there? For beauty and abundance, that is all. For music and sex, that is all. But the desire for beauty and abundance cannot always be satisfied, and music and sex cannot always be enjoyed. Besides, we are prohibited by punishment and exhorted by rewards, pushed by fame and checked by law. We busily strive for the empty praise which is only temporary, and seek extra glory that would come after death. Being alone oursselves, we pay great care to what our ears hear and what our eyes see, and are much concerned with what is right or wrong for our bodies and minds. Thus we lose the great happiness of the present and cannot give ourselves free rein for a single moment. What is the difference between that and many chains and double prisons? (7, tr. Chan 1963:310)
>>7461554
Because I did not know about him.
Seems based, thanks OP!
>>7461554
huuu~ me rikey being bad! me no rikey being good!
Sounds like asians have bad mothers.
>Yang Zhu was, according to contemporary sources, an early Daoist teacher identified with a new philosophical trend toward naturalism as the best means of preserving life in a decadent and turbulent world
sounds like the man for our times, lads.
is there any good secondary lit for someone who knows fuck all about chinese philosophy and wants to get a decent introduction?
This is my twelfth time posting this passage on /lit/, and I am becoming exceedingly efficient at it.
For God made not death, neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the living. For he created all things that they might be: and he made the nations of the earth for health: and there is no poison of destruction in them, nor kingdom of hell upon the earth. For justice is perpetual and immortal.
But the wicked with works and words have called it to them: and esteeming it a friend have fallen away, and have made a covenant with it: because they are worthy to be of the part thereof.
For they have said, reasoning with themselves, but not right: The time of our life is short and tedious, and in the end of a man there is no remedy, and no man hath been known to have returned from hell: For we are born of nothing, and after this we shall be as if we had not been: for the breath in our nostrils is smoke: and speech a spark to move our heart, Which being put out, our body shall be ashes, and our spirit shall be poured abroad as soft air, and our life shall pass away as the trace of a cloud, and shall be dispersed as a mist, which is driven away by the beams of the sun, and overpowered with the heat thereof: And our name in time shall be forgotten, and no man shall have any remembrance of our works. For our time is as the passing of a shadow, and there is no going back of our end: for it is fast sealed, and no man returneth.
Come therefore, and let us enjoy the good things that are present, and let us speedily use the creatures as in youth. Let us fill ourselves with costly wine, and ointments: and let not the flower of the time pass by us. Let us crown ourselves with roses, before they be withered: let no meadow escape our riot. Let none of us go without his part in luxury: let us everywhere leave tokens of joy: for this is our portion, and this our lot. Let us oppress the poor just man, and not spare the widow, nor honour the ancient grey hairs of the aged.
But let our strength be the law of justice: for that which is feeble, is found to be nothing worth. Let us therefore lie in wait for the just, because he is not for our turn, and he is contrary to our doings, and upbraideth us with transgressions of the law, and divulgeth against us the sins of our way of life. He boasteth that he hath the knowledge of God, and calleth himself the son of God. He is become a censurer of our thoughts. He is grievous unto us, even to behold: for his life is not like other men' s, and his ways are very different.
>>7461757
We are esteemed by him as triflers, and he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness, and he preferreth the latter end of the just, and glorieth that he hath God for his father. Let us see then if his words be true, and let us prove what shall happen to him, and we shall know what his end shall be. For if he be the true son of God, he will defend him, and will deliver him from the hands of his enemies. Let us examine him by outrages and tortures, that we may know his meekness and try his patience. Let us condemn him to a most shameful death: for there shall be respect had unto him by his words.
These things they thought, and were deceived: for their own malice blinded them. And they knew not the secrets of God, nor hoped for the wages of justice, nor esteemed the honour of holy souls. For God created man incorruptible, and to the image of his own likeness he made him. But by the envy of the devil, death came into the world: And they follow him that are of his side.
But the souls of the just are in the hand of God, and the torment of death shall not touch them. In the sight of the unwise they seemed to die: and their departure was taken for misery: And their going away from us, for utter destruction: but they are in peace. And though in the sight of men they suffered torments, their hope is full of immortality. Afflicted in few things, in many they shall be well rewarded: because God hath tried them, and found them worthy of himself.
As gold in the furnace he hath proved them, and as a victim of a holocaust he hath received them, and in time there shall be respect had to them. The just shall shine, and shall run to and fro like sparks among the reeds. They shall judge nations, and rule over people, and their Lord shall reign for ever. They that trust in him, shall understand the truth: and they that are faithful in love shall rest in him: for grace and peace is to his elect. But the wicked shall be punished according to their own devices: who have neglected the just, and have revolted from the Lord.
For he that rejecteth wisdom, and discipline, is unhappy: and their hope is vain, and their labours without fruit, and their works unprofitable. Their wives are foolish, and their children wicked. Their offspring is cursed: for happy is the barren: and the undefiled, that hath not known bed in sin: she shall have fruit in the visitation of holy souls. And the eunuch, that hath not wrought iniquity with his hands, nor thought wicked things against God: for the precious gift of faith shall be given to him, and a most acceptable lot in the temple of God. For the fruit of good labours is glorious, and the root of wisdom never faileth.
>>7461554
Because I don't care about him.
Feel like this post is gonna have some voluntary response bias.
>>7461763
But the children of adulterers shall not come to perfection, and the seed of the unlawful bed shall be rooted out. And if they live long, they shall be nothing regarded, and their last old age shall be without honour. And if they die quickly, they shall have no hope, nor speech of comfort in the day of trial. For dreadful are the ends of a wicked race.
>>7461720
Sauce?
>>7461782
>questioning God
>>7461776
Three Kingdoms apparently. Never seen it myself, but planning to after seeing this webm.
>>7461782
>God
>intentions
pick one
>>7461745
Just Do it with the Daodejing and Analyse the Analects
>>7461554
Seems like an edgelord
>>7461786
Me too, thank you.
>>7461782
>wicked
spiteful
>>7461763
Just when I thought chrisfags were being replaced by radfems, here we go again.
>>7461798
Sounds like you're a fucking pleb. To those with discernment passages like the ones you quoted brim with significance and power
>>7461833
Just wait for the Maria devotion synthesis, then we'll really be in trouble.
>>7461745
Disputers of the Tao by AC Graham
The World of Thought in Ancient China by Benjamin Schwartz
The Five 'Confucian' Classics by someone whose name I've forgotten (doesn't go into schools of thought like the previous two, but a really good intro to the all-important Chinese canon)
Also Sources of Chinese Tradition for useful summaries and extracts from major texts
>>7461844
>>7461842
It's basically 'they think life is meaningless and they can do what they want and have fun but it isn't because muh God is real so you better be a good boy' in an extremely convoluted way.
>>7461855
>new testament
>convoluted
lello, operator? OPERATOR?
>>7461842
>passages like the ones you quoted brim with significance and power
This feeling has been conditioned into you. You expect bible passages to be significant and powerful, so you when you read it you read significance and power into it. People who don't buy the shit read it and it comes off as a bunch of crazy hokey old timey bullshit. Basically you're a weak-willed herd-blinded sheep
>>7461864
Have you considered that you might be the slightest bit jaded? Teensie eensie weensie bit jaded?
>>7461554
This honestly sounds like the unspoken mainstream current ideology, but maybe it's the unspoken mainstream current ideology of all ages.
>>7461864
My friend, there was no expectation. How could I will myself to find something beautiful when it isn't? Passages like that speak of human affairs from a higher and more illuminated vantage. Regardless of the exact nature of God or religion they are derived from, the tenor of truth is the same everywhere. Only a fool believes everyone else's belief system but his own are conditioned.
Christposters, back to your containment thread please:
>>7458641
>>7461885
>unrironically buying into perennialism
The sixties are over, lad.
YANGCHUsaid:
"Kuan Ching filled his post as a minister of Ch’i in the following way. When his sovereign was wanton he was wanton too; when his sovereign was prodigal he was also prodigal. He met his wishes and obeyed him; following the right path, he made the kingdom prosper. But after the king's death, he was only Mr. Kuan again. Nothing more.
"But when Tien was minister of Ch’i he behaved as follows. When his sovereign was overbearing he was condescending. When his sovereign collected taxes he distributed money. Thus the people admired him, and in consequence hep. 38entered into the possession of the kingdom of Ch’i. His descendants hold it to this day.1
"If anybody has real greatness he is poor; if his greatness is spurious, he is rich."
Yang Chu said:
"The really good man is not famous; if he be famous, he is not really a good man, for all fame is nothing but falsehood.
"Of old Yao and Shun pretended to yield the empire to Hsu-yu and Shan-Chuan, but they did not lose it, and enjoyed happiness for a hundred years.
"Po Yo and Shu-Ch’i really abdicated on account of the Prince Ku-Chu, and lost their kingdom at last, finally dying of starvation on the mountain of Shou-Yang.2
"This is the difference between the real and false"
>>7461900
If realty is the same everywhere, then the truth is the same everywhere, only filtered through different dispositions and cultural modes. Getting hung up on the label and not the content is a hallmark of superficial understanding.
>>7461912
M8 realty is all about location location location
>>7461912
'Reality' is an ideological construct in itself.
The 'bunch of blind people feeling up the same beautiful elephant' approach is too simplistic.
Even if there's some universality to the notion of truth though, there's no reason to believe that all the great religions have touched upon it. It could very well be that they are all wrong for the same universal reasons rather than right for the same universal reasons. Consensus does not necessitate truthfulness, and so far humanity has been shown to be united in error regarding a lot of subjects.
>>7461917
The sky is the same over China as it is over New York.
>>7461920
They wish, bro.
SELF-SACRIFICE AND SELF-AGGRANDISEMENT
YANGCHUsaid:
"Po-chêng-tse-kao1would not part with a hair of his body for the benefit of others. He quittedp. 53his country and became a ploughman. The great Yü1did not profit by his own body, which grew quite emaciated.
"If the ancients by injuring a single hair could have rendered a service to the world, they would not have done it; and had the universe been offered to a single person, he would not have accepted it.
"As nobody would damage even a hair, and nobody would do a favour to the world, the world was in a perfect state."
Ch’in-Tse asked Yang Chu:
"If by pulling out a hair of your body you would aid mankind, would you do it?"
Yang Chu answered:
"Mankind is surely not to be helped by a single hair."
Ch’in-Tse said:
"But supposing it possible, would you do it?"
Yang Chu gave no answer.
Thereupon Ch’in-Tse told Meng-sun-Yang, who replied:
"I will explain the Master's meaning.
"Supposing for tearing off a piece of your skin you were offered ten thousand gold pieces, would you do it?"
Ch’in-Tse said:
"I would."
p. 54
Meng-sun-Yang again asked:
"Supposing for cutting off one of your limbs you were to get a kingdom, would you do it?"
Ch’in-Tse was silent.
"See now," said Meng-sun-Yang. "A hair is unimportant compared with the skin, and the skin also is unimportant compared with a limb.
"However, many hairs put together form skin, and many skins form a limb. Therefore, though a hair is but one among the many molecules composing the body, it is not to be disregarded."
Ch’in-Tse replied:
"I do not know how to answer you. If I were to ask Lao-tse and Kuan-Yin,1your opinion would be found right, and so also if I were to consult great Yü and Me-ti."
Meng-sun-Yang upon this turned round to his disciples, and spoke of something else.
>>7461757
Maybe you should stop posting it on /lit/ because no one gives a fuck and you're interrupting threads with your bullshit.
>>7461920
Not really. There is a measurable difference.
>>7461918
>'reality' is an ideological construct
Oh please. You know exactly what I mean. There is supposed to be no connotation of anything when I say reality. It means simply the state of things, and the state of things abide everywhere, regardless of what side of the road people drive on.
Any mystic or saint worth his salt will admit that, at the end of the day, there will always be an event horizon of knowledge past which the human mind can only guess at. A religion without a healthy respect for the unknowable is a dead thing. As far as our consciousness is able to investigate, there is a wide agreement across religions about the nature of reality
>>7461928
Are daoists metaphysical libertarians?
>>7461940
>There is supposed to be no connotation of anything when I say reality.
> It means simply the state of things,
>and the state of things abide everywhere, regardless of what side of the road people drive on.
I like how you say there is supposed to be no connotation of anything and then immediately you start filling out the concept of reality with unwarranted claims that serve your ideology.
>As far as our consciousness is able to investigate, there is a wide agreement across religions about the nature of reality
Again, consensus proves nothing. Although there really isn't a wide consensus across religions about this anyway, it only seems that way to you because you are insufficiently familiar with these religions and strongly focus on any aspects they have in common to serve your confirmation bias.
>>7461933
You're being intentionally obtuse. Stop splitting hairs and learn how to have a discussion
>>7461964
>stop seeing through my meaningless platitudes and play along with my dollar store profundity
>>7461943
Yang Zhu isn't representative of the Daoists desu
>>7461962
>Reality exists
>IDEOLOGY MEIN GOTT
Does the Planck length change when I cross over into China? Is up down and down up in Singapore? Does reality, in its most absolute texture, change because I changed borders? Are you telling me the earth exists simultaneously in a dozen other universes where the ruleset of physical laws, and thereby the nature of life, radically changed? I can't believe I have to explain this shit
>>7461973
>everything that challenges my worldview must be characterized as hippy shit be sure I have neither the background or aptitude to disprove these assertions on their own merits
Nigga please, your shit transparent as fuck
DEATH THE EQUALISER
YANGCHUsaid:
"That in which all beings differ is life, that in which they are all alike is death.
"During life there is the difference of intelligence and dullness, honour and meanness, but in death there is the equality of rottenness and putrefaction. Neither can be prevented. Although intelligence and dullness, honour and meanness exist, no human power can affect them, just as rottenness and putrefaction cannot be prevented. Human beings cannot make life andp. 41death, intelligence and stupidity, honourableness and meanness, what they are, for all beings live and die equally, are equally wise and stupid, honourable and mean.
"Some die at the age of ten, some at one hundred. The wise and benevolent die as the cruel and imbecile.
"In life they are known as Yao and Shun1; dead they are so many bones which cannot be distinguished. But if we hasten to enjoy our life, we have no time to trouble about what comes after death."
THE FOLLY OF DESIRE FOR LONG LIFE
MENG-SUN-YANGasked Yang Chu:
"There are men who cherish life and care for their bodies with the intention of grasping immortality. Is that possible?"
Yang Chu replied:
"According to the laws of nature there is no such thing as immortality."
Meng-sun-Yang: "Yet is it possible to acquire a very long life?"
Yang Chu: "According to the laws of nature there is no such thing as a very long life. Neither can life be preserved by cherishing or the body benefited by fostering."
Meng-sun-Yang: "What would be a long life?"
"All things were the same as they are now.The five good and bad passions were of old as they are now. So also the safety and peril of the four limbs. Grief and joy for the things of this world were of old as they are now, and the constant change of peace and revolution. Having seen and heard all these things, one would already be awearied of it at the age of a hundred. How much more after a very long life!"
Meng-sun-Yang: "If it be so a sudden death would be preferable to a long life; therefore we ought to run on to a pointed sword or jump into deep water to have what our heart yearns for."
Yang Chu: "No. Having once come into life regard it and let it pass; mark its desires and wishes, and so wait death.
"When death comes, disregard it and let it come. Mark what it brings you, and be drifted away to annihilation.
"If you pay no regard to life and death, and let them be as they are, how can you be anxious lest our life should end too soon?"
>>7461999
But you're wrong though
>>7462034
Only an mega autist would challenge a statement as simple as 'reality exists regardless of arbitrary geographical boundaries'
>>7462040
>not being a moral relativist
It's like you actually started with the Greeks.
>>7462050
>he didn't read Protogoras
>>7461999
Seeing 'the sky is the same in two places' as an argument for 'there is a universal truth present in all religions' is pretty much hippy shit, anon.
>>7462050
>not setting out with the sophists
Socrates and crew basically gotten blown the fuck out before they even got into the game.
>>7462060
Way to miss the point.
>>7462060
This, also: it's literally not the same. Constellations will be different, and atmospheric conditions will likely be different as well. If you want to make a clear point use clear language- I only threw your own obfuscatory bullshit back in your face to make a point
>>7462073
Oh my god this board is a fucking meme.
>>7462078
No u
>>7462066
My point is that your point is an invalid analogy, silly boy.
I'm not missing but dismissing.
FALSE VIRTUES
YANGCHUsaid:
"Po Yi was not without desire, for being too proud of his purity of mind, he was led to death by starvation.
"Chan Chi was not passionless, for being too proud of his virtue he happened to reduce his family.
"Those who in pursuit of purity and virtue do good in a false way resemble these men."
>>7462078
So you're new here, that explains that weak universalism shit you're bringing to the table.
>>>7461554
This guy should be elevated alongside Stirner. Continental philosophy frauds, pompous religious charlatans and uppity atheist humanists in ABSOLUTE RUINS.
You have literally ten seconds to convince us why the objet petit a, muh Jebus, or "Universal" human rights can contradict any of the OP.
>>7461987
No, but this 'if you don't fuck with things they turn out alright' is a common sentiment in Daoist teachings I believe.
The Indians also had a based sect like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charvaka
Basically any ancient culture had a few edgy lads to set things straight apparently.
>>7462121
Mm kinda. Theres another way that goes: "no matter what you do you can't fuck shit up /that/ bad, so let er rip I sez y not" largely attributable to zhuangzi
THE IDEAL LIFE
YANGCHUsaid:
"Yuan Hsie lived in mean circumstances in Lu, while Tse Kungamassed wealth in Wei.
"Poverty galled the one, and riches caused uneasiness to the other.
"So poverty will not do nor wealth either."
"But what then will do?"
"I answer enjoy life and take one's ease, for those who know how to enjoy life are not poor, and he that lives at ease requires no riches."
THE JOYOUS LIFE OF TUAN-MU-SHU
TUAN-MU-SHUof Wei was descended from Tse-Kung.
He had a patrimony of ten thousand gold pieces.
Indifferent to the chances of life, he followed his own inclinations.
What the heart delights in he would do and delight in: with his walls and buildings, pavilions, verandahs, gardens, parks, ponds and lakes, wine and food, carriages, dresses, women and attendants, he would emulate the princes of Chi and Chu in luxury.
Whenever his heart desired something, or his ear wished to hear something, his eye to see or hismouth to taste, he would procure it at all costs, though the thing might only be had in a far-off country, and not in the kingdom of Chi.
When on a journey the mountains and rivers might be ever so difficult and dangerous to pass, and the roads ever so long, he would still proceed just as men walk a few steps.
A hundred guests were entertained daily in his palace. In the kitchens there were always fire and smoke, and the vaults of his hall and peristyle incessantly resounded with songs and music. The remains from his table he divided first among his clansmen. What they left was divided among his fellow-citizens, and what these did not eat was distributed throughout the whole kingdom.
When Tuan-mu-Shu reached the age of sixty, and his mind and body began to decay, he gave up his household and distributed all his treasures, pearls and gems, carriages and dresses, concubines and female attendants. Within a year he had disposed of his fortune, and to his offspring he had left nothing. When he fell ill, he had no means to buy medicines and a stone lancet, and when he died, there was not even money for his funeral. All his countrymen who had benefited by him contributed money to bury him, and gave back the fortune of his descendants.
When Ch’in-ku-li1heard of this he said:
"Tuan-mu-Shu was a fool, who brought disgrace to his ancestor."
When Tuan-Kan-Sheng heard of it he said:
"Tuan-mu-Shu was a wise man; his virtue was much superior to that of his ancestors. The commonsense people were shocked at his conduct, but it was in accord with the right doctrine. The excellent man of Wei only adhered to propriety. They surely had not a heart like his."
>>7462132
Zhuangzi was a top lad to be honest.
>>7462134
This is includied in the Liezi, right? Because I have that lying around unread and I like what I'm seeing.
>>7462162
Yep it's in Book 7.
Here's an oldish translation: http://sacred-texts.com/tao/ycgp/index.htm
>>7462174
Thanks for turning me onto this, just what I needed.
What primary and secondary texts are recommended for getting into Chinese philosophy?
Aside from the Tao Te Ching and Analects?
>>7462218
Zhuangzi, lad
>>7462218
Zhuangzi, go for Burton Watson's translation
>>7462218
Also liezi, mengzi.
Might want to check out the I Ching as well
>>7462223
Cheers lads. On the topic, is Mitchell's poetic translation as bad as some anons have made it out to be, or is it just a bit 'free'?
>>7462101
Mysticism generally means a methodology of awareness designed for union with what the subject perceives as the divine. This is an inward and esoteric journey, in comparison with exoteric religions which are heavily influenced by all the particularities of the world, such as culture, geography etc. An individual sheds (or builds on) his socially-filtered belief system that he may attain the truths sacred texts can only describe and point at.
What you find, if you read the writings of these people, is a remarkable congruence of sensibility and view on the ultimate nature of reality, regardless of social and geographical distinction. The Tao is also AUM. We interpret the same, essential nature of reality everywhere, it is only the signifiers we give to it that differ.
The modality of truth does not disprove truth.
>>7462311
>the tao is a syllable
But
>the tao that can be spoken is not the great and eternal tao
So
No
>>7462325
This is bait right?
>>7462335
If you want to talk about truth, try not getting the absolute basics completely wrong
>>7462355
Put a sock in it already you fuckin wanker
>>7462356
I use paper towels but 'ow'd you know I was 'avin a wank
>>7462374
Paper towels are peak as fuck you wetty
>>7462377
Stop making up words retard
>>7462384
Moist cunt come my ends and get sparked wasteman
>>7462393
Tough guy over here watch out
>>7462073
>Secondly, Stace identifies a universal, “monistic,” introvertive experience that “looks inward into the mind,” to achieve “pure consciousness,” that is, an experience phenomenologically not of anything (Stace, 1961, 86). Stace calls this a “unitary consciousness.” Some have called this a “Pure Conscious Event” or “PCE” (Forman, 1993b and 1999. See section 6 below). A PCE consists of an “emptying out” by a subject of all experiential content and phenomenological qualities, including concepts, thoughts, sense perception, and sensuous images. The subject allegedly remains with “pure” wakeful consciousness. Like his extrovertive experience, Stace's universal introvertive experience involves a blissful sense of sacred objectivity, and is paradoxical and possibly ineffable. Stace considers the universal introvertive experience to be a ripening of mystical awareness beyond the halfway house of the universal extrovertive consciousness.
>Stace assimilates theistic mystical experiences to his universal introvertive experience by distinguishing between experience and interpretation. The introvertive experience, says Stace, is the same across cultures. Only interpretations differ. Theistic mystics are pressured by their surroundings, says Stace, to put a theistic interpretation on their introvertive experiences. Ninian Smart also maintained the universality of the monistic experience, arguing that descriptions of theistic mystical experiences reflect an interpretive overlay upon an experiential base common to both theistic and non-theistic experiences (Smart, 1965). The psychologist, Ralph Hood, has argued extensively that psychometric studies provide “strong empirical support” for “the common core thesis” of mystical experience (Hood, 2006).
>>7462262
I don't know, haven't read it in English to be honest.
>>7462311
Too bad what you just described is considered heresy by a lot of the religions you seek to include and plain wrong by others.
>>7462659
Can you even fucking read
>>7462666
In the name of the father the son and the holy ghost I cast thee out satan
>>7462666
>all the religions secretly agree with me including those that deny it and want to see me burned at the stake
Just keep your vague feelings of mysticism to yourself lad, don't insult Christians by saying that their God is secretly your wishy washy 'divine'. It's pretty patronising to say that the deeper truth behind all religion is this thing you believe in but that they just don't know it because they aren't esoteric enough.
>>7462704
>what are christian mystics
>what is theosis
>In Eastern Orthodoxy deification (theosis) is a transformative process whose goal is likeness to or union with God. As a process of transformation, theosis is brought about by the effects of katharsis (purification of mind and body) and theoria. According to Eastern Orthodox teaching, theosis is very much the purpose of human life. It is considered achievable only through a synergy (or cooperation) between human activity and God's uncreated energies (or operations).[1][2]
>According to Metropolitan Hierotheos Vlachos, the primacy of theosis in Orthodox theology is directly related to the fact that Orthodox theology (as historically conceived by its principal exponents) is based to a greater extent than Western Catholic Latin theology on the direct spiritual insights of the saints or mystics of the church rather than the apparently more rational thought tradition of the West.
you're a fucking cretin
>>7462725
Embarrassing laddie
>>7462737
buttblasted catholicfag detected
>>7462745
Catholics are the worst Christians by far.
>>7462745
My spirituality is odd but I present as atheist mostly
>>7462771
Do you have an argument or you just gonna sit with a thumb up your ass
>>7462852
>some people think they can enjoy life and be hedonistic but no there is God so you can't
>>7462861
>no you shut the fuck up god
literally manchildren: the worldview
>>7462796
Lol there's nothing worth arguing against, and why would I need a thumb up my ass when your head's already there
>>7461554
So, are there any books that he's written or any other taoist books/philosophers with his sort of worldview?
>>7462906
He's like the Pre-Socratics in that his works survive through others.
One example is the chapter on the Leizi on him which contains his 'Garden of Pleasure': http://sacred-texts.com/tao/ycgp/index.htm
Go on his Wikipedia page for more information, or google Chinese ethical egoists.
>>7462900
Well meme'd, catch you on the flipside faggot
>>7462917
Aight, it's a shame he hasn't got a big,surviving book but I suppose I'll go look for other chinese ethical egoists, then. Thanks senpai.
>>7462852
"no fun allowed t. dad"
>>7461776
>>7461786
its one of the first 5 episodes. i've started watching and series is really good aside from chink dramas in between (you can skip them without any lose)
also i want to add that i didnt expect a chink drama-epic to be this "edgy" you could never see a show like this in a european tv. based asians.
>>7462725
>wow orthodoxy has a contemplative tradition, that means that it's totally compatible with my alan watts tier hinduism light pseudophilosophy
Just let them be lad, religions have been around for a long time, they don't need new age helpers to weave them all into one homogeneous blur.
>>7463050
any specific release that you recommend?
>>7463054
fuck off back to your mega church faggot
>>7461554
>its chief purpose is pleasure.
into the trash it goes
>>7463077
If the chief purpose is not pleasure/happiness, what is?
>>7463062
Wew, can't we all just get along, we all believe the same thing if we're obscurantist enough with our definitions!
>>7461554
Interesting, never heard of him before. Thanks OP
>>7463086
Eudaimonia
>>7463111
that shit is never really achieved except by a few people,if even that, so it's best to just enjoy small pleasures until it's our time to pass.
Do you really believe Eudaimondia exists?
>>7463054
>one homogenous blur
>...this body is mortal. It has been appropriated by Death. [But] it is the standing-ground of that deathless, bodiless Self... that serene one, when he rises up from this body, reaches the highest light...1
>The Essence of the First Absolute Light,
God gives constant illumination,
whereby it is manifested and it
brings all things into existence,
giving light to them by its rays.
>Everything in the World
is derived from the Light of His Essence
and all beauty and perfection
are the gift of His bounty,
and to attain fully to this illumination
is salvation.2
>The mind mirror illumines all ingenuously.
Its penetrating, limitless rays reach
everywhere in the universe.
Without exception everything is reflected
in this mirror
The whole universe is a gem of light
beyond the terms of in and out.2
>The essence of man is his soul;
the skin, flesh, bones and sinews
are but an outward covering, the
mere garments, but they are not the man.
When man departs from this world, he
divests himself of all these garments...
skins are a garment which protects a garment,
viz, the extension of the heavens which is
the outer garment [of the Divine] (III, 230).
>Within every body
Is the Lord hidden;
Within every body
Is His light.
>Searching his body, his home,
By the master's instructions one finds
the Name revealed within.8
>the Unchangeable Light....
He who knows the truth knows that light;
and he that knows it knoweth eternity...
Thou didst beat back the infirmity of my sight,
pouring forth upon me most strongly
Thy beams of light...3
The Zohar, St. Augustine, the Qur'an, a Zen text, the Adi Granth, and the Upanishads. Which is which smartass
>>7463115
Nothing conceptual like that "exists" in a totally satisfying way, obviously. But better to strive towards it than some reductive idea of "pleasure" that reduces the miracle of consciousness to an endorphin receptacle, like we're some dumb animal. Without this striving, there could be no art, philosophy, transcendental love, etc etc.
>>7463123
Again, just because you can find some similarities (light imagery, so rare) doesn't mean that you can just equate those religions and say they're about the same thing. Zen denies everything monotheists hold so dear, for example.
The Judaism rip-offs will obviously be similar in some ways, of course, but that's not because they tap into some divine universal truth but rather because they have been copying each other's gibberish.
>>7463164
>Zen denies everything monotheists hold so dear, for example
>what is negative theology
>what is the apophatic god
>what is the Eyn Sof
>what is the Ghayb ul-Gaib
>1. The unfathomable God's Essence; Abyss of the Unmanifest Absolute. The Sufi technical tems are: Ghayb ul-Ghaib ( Mystery of Mysteries ), Amma ( Darkess ), Dhat/Zat ( Essence ). The corresponding spiritual stage is called Ahadiyyat- Oneness. This is equal to Plotinus's One - To Hen , or to the Shaivite Tantric Paramashiva or Mahabindu.
>According to the esoteric, metaphysical interpretation of the above account, the Godhead, the Essence of God, is unknown and unknowable in its Inscrutable Essence, is called by the mystics and theologians omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, Unity, Oneness, Absolute Existence, Pure Being, Nondual Consciousness, Emptiness, Divine Nothingness, Darkness, Void, Abyss, Silence, Otherness, Beyondness and Mystery, and yet is beyond all of these. God is the Personal aspect of the Essence, the Godhead. God proceeds and thus creates, sustains and destroys matter, time, energy, life, beings, mind and the objects of the mind. God proceeds through Love, Truth and pure dynamism, ferocious and wrathful. In the act of proceeding, God remains in undiminished, infinite transcendence
>Before, after, and always, there is only the Absolute Reality, the Uncreated Source, the Supreme Reality. It forms the basis of the mystical experience. It can be described positively, as in the Vedantin Sacchidananda - Infinite Being, Infinite Consciousness, Infinite Bliss - or negatively, as in the Buddhist Shunyata and the Upanishadic and Dionysian "negative theology"
>Strictly speaking, the Absolute Reality is not a "level" of reality at all; for to interpret it as such would be to relativise It, whereas It is beyond all relativity and relationships; the essential Reality behind all the other realities. It is eternal, infinite, ever-perfect, ever-blissful, and totally unitary. It is the Brahman, Atman, Buddha-nature, Tao, the Absolute, Godhead of various philosophies and theologies.
Keep 'em coming brah
>>7463222
All very different things. Describing through negation is something other than describing the lack of something to negate. You can't conflate Buddhist anatman with atman, the very thing it denies.
Please stop quoting new age websites dedicated to cherry picking to establish vague similarities, lad.
>>7463144
succinct.
>>7463263
>vague similiarities
Nice damage control faggot
>In the highest golden sheath is Brahman,
>stainless, without parts;
>Pure is it, the light of lights.
>This is what the knowers of the Self know.
>The sun shines not there,
>nor the moon and stars,
>these lightnings shine not,
>where then could this fire be?
>His shining illumines all this world.
>Brahman, verily, is this Deathless.
> - Mundaka Upanishad
>Where water, earth, heat
>and wind find no footing,
>there no stars gleam,
>no sun is made visible,
>there shines no moon,
>there the darkness is not found;
>When the sage, the brahmin,
>himself in wisdom knows this place
>he is freed from the form
>and formless realms,
>from happiness and suffering.
> - The Udana
>>7463294
What are you trying to point out with this quote?
>>7463359
The Brahman and the Buddhist void - Nirvana - are described in nearly identical language. The Buddhist no-self is of the original nature of reality, emptiness, and the Hindu atman is also of the nature of reality, Brahman. Though the connotations of positive existence and negative existence appear to be irreconcileable the overlap in description and conceptualization suggests an Absolute that is neither emptiness nor non-emptiness. Indeed, it is the Unknowable.
Have some more:
>"O Rama, there is no intellect, no nescience, no mind and no individual soul (jiva). They are all imagined in Brahman."
>"If conceptualization (which gives rise to notions of being and non-being) is eliminated, then it is realized that all these jivas (the individual souls), etc. are empty expressions."
>The cosmic intelligence in which the universe, as it were, ceases to be, is the Lord. In him the subject-object relationship appears to have ceased. as such. He is the void in which the universe appears to exist. In him even cosmic consciousness stands still like a mountain.
>Even as the uncarved image is forever present in a block, the world whether you regard it as real or unreal is inherent in the absolute, which is therefore not void. Just as one cannot say that there are no waves present in a calm ocean, the absolute is not empty of the world.
>In truth, however, this world does not arise from the absolute nor does it merge in it. The absolute alone exists now and for ever. When one thinks of it as a void. it is because of the feeling one has that it is not void; when one thinks of it as not void. it is because there is a feeling that it is void.
The assertion that highly learned sages from different cultures are somehow experiencing two completely different Absolute realities because one is Hindu and the other is Buddhist is absurd. Doctrinal differences can be chalked up to the difficulty that has always existed when expressing the inexpressible, as well as the natural preferences of practitioners who see God more in the external world vs. those who seek him in supernormal states of consciousness
>nice egoist thread fucked up by religionposters yet again
>>7463424
This is simply because Buddhism is degenerate Hinduism. Do something impressive, like a parallel between Aztec mythology, Scientology, and Shinto.
>>7463516
>Buddhism is degenerate Hinduism
>Scientology is a legitimate religion
Lmao come off it you git. You've been backpedaling since the start.
By the way,
>At the heart of [Aztec] philosophy stands the thesis that there exists a single, dynamic, vivifying, eternally self-generating and self-regenerating sacred power, energy or force: what the Nahuas called teotl (see Boone 1994; Burkhart 1989; Klor de Alva 1979; Monaghan 2000; H.B. Nicholson 1971; Read 1998; Townsend 1972). Elizabeth Boone (1994:105) writes, "The real meaning of [teotl] is spirit -- a concentration of power as a sacred and impersonal force". According to Jorge Klor de Alva (1979:7), "Teotl ...implies something more than the idea of the divine manifested in the form of a god or gods; instead it signifies the sacred in more general terms". The multiplicity of gods in official, state sanctioned Aztec religion does not gainsay this claim, for this multiplicity was merely the sacred, merely teotl, "separated, as it were by the prism of human sight, into its many attributes" (I. Nicholson 1959:63f).
>>7463548
Not the tao
>>7463603
>Dao can be roughly thought of as the flow of the universe, or as some essence or pattern behind the natural world that keeps the universe balanced and ordered.[7] It is related to the idea of qi, the essential energy of action and existence. Dao is a non-dual concept – it is the greater whole from which all the individual elements of the universe derive.
>At the heart of [Aztec] philosophy stands the thesis that there exists a single, dynamic, vivifying, eternally self-generating and self-regenerating sacred power, energy or force ... "Teotl ...implies something more than the idea of the divine manifested in the form of a god or gods; instead it signifies the sacred in more general terms". The multiplicity of gods in official, state sanctioned Aztec religion does not gainsay this claim, for this multiplicity was merely the sacred, merely teotl, "separated, as it were by the prism of human sight, into its many attributes"
i think i could literally diagnose you with autism over the internet lmao
>>7462149
based
>>7463616
Those who speak do not know
>>7462134
>"I answer enjoy life and take one's ease, for those who know how to enjoy life are not poor, and he that lives at ease requires no riches."
Sounds familiar, family.
>>7462134
fug, I really wished he had surviving works, this guy is 100% based.
>>7463667
named it is the mother of all things, nameless it is the origin of Heaven and Earth
>>7463144
Pseudo doody poody pretentious bollocks. Pleasure and eudaimonia are interchangeable you insufferable git.
>>7464664
No they aren't you mook
>>7463144
>Without this striving, there could be no art, philosophy, transcendental love, etc etc.
All those things sound pretty pleasurable to me.
Hedonism isn't merely crude liquor chugging and whoring, it's the notion that fun things are fun and worthwhile for that reason.
>>7465584
Yes they are you gook. Words can have more than one meaning. Besides you're judging a work based on its translation.
>>7465638
Mmyeah I'd say eudaimonia is a specific sort of pleasure
>>7465699
And pleasure can refer to eudaimonia, just as pain can refer to anal inflammation--a specific sort of pain.
>>7465721
Except they're not interchangeable. Deal with the fact not everyone lives for their next hit of dopamine you tard
>>7465792
They do, some are just less honest with themselves about it.
>>7465792
They are. Pleasure doesn't just mean a release of dopamine you autistic dweeb.
