Iliad
>Mopey Achilles
>A million names
>That book/chapter that's just a list of more names and places
>Which Ajax is which?
> No Trojan Horse
Odyssey
>Nuanced protagonist
>Mythical creatures and mystery
>Underworld Scene
>Intricate plot spanning time and place
>Hero's Journey
and yet, /lit/, why is it that I liked the Iliad more?
Because you didn't understand it.
>>8272830
>tfw I still imagine Odysseus as my high school english teacher
>>8272830
Because the Iliad appeals more the contemporary notion of the shunned, ostracized (anti-)hero. And you probably don't have a family so you have no idea what the yearning for home would feel like after a long absence.
For me personally, Iliad was far more appealing because of the topic of death and the human condition. It also yielded more insight in a society so distant from our own, not merely because of the shame society which is so different from our own guilt society. But also because of the inherent futility of life and how we try and give meaning to this brief time on earth that we have before we descend into obscurity.
Best translation of Homer, lads?
>>8273010
Fagles is great because it is very comprehensive. Also the introduction is great, regardless of whatever translator you wish to read make sure you have read Fagles introduction (easily accessible on bookzz)
Lattimore is the more literal translation and most commonly read within academics
Personally read Fitzgerald which is great, more of a prose translation.
Also have Pope and others which I can't remember right now which all seem to be great as well if we're going by the opinion of Fagles etc.
I would advice to start with Fagles or otherwise just read the first few pages of each translator and see which you like best. Can't really go wrong with any of the ones I listed though
>>8272830
Because the Iliad deals with the highest themes: war, life and death, nihilism, how one should live. Whereas the Odyssey is essentially domestic in scope (most of it about hospitality and proper and improper family life)
>reading for plot
That is basically it, Odyssey is let down by having a plot arc. It seems very unoriginal in that sense as guy struggles to get something done and then does it lives happily ever after etc.
The illiad is a slice of life, even if it is an unusual life. It isn't burdened by a plotted out story, more like just a bunch of related things that happens. And it ends pretty much where it starts: no resolution, no simple moral conclusion. It is a window into an imperfect bit of life, more like staring at a paining than watching a film.
>>8273855
Wrong. The Iliad has the most perfect plot ever created, ending with the funeral of Hector symbolising that of the still-living Achilles. Whereas the Odyssey ends weirdly abruptly so some later poet tacked on a final chapter to tie up the loose ends.
>>8273883
A perfect plot is a stupid plot, fit only for formulaic murder mysteries. Life has loose ends, and so should plots. Odyssey is specifically used to address loose ends of Illiad.
>>8273902
1) Life doesn't have a plot, so that's a retarded naturalistic fallacy
2) There are no loose ends in the Iliad because the subject is the rage of Achilles.
>>8272873
Great post, pal
>>8273855
>>8273902
Sometimes things work out and is nicely tied up, sometimes there are loose ends. Both occur in life and there's room for both in literature.
"Real life is infinite in its variety in comparison with even the cleverest abstract generalization, and it does not admit of sharp and sweeping distinctions. The tendency of real life is always towards greater and greater differentiation."
>>8273010
Fitzgerald is absolutely wonderful. For the past few weeks I've been flipping to a random page and just reading the first stanza I see:
Iliad, book seven, Hektor speaking:
"And here is what I say—Zeus be my witness—
if with his whetted bronze he cuts me down,
my armor he may take away and carry
aboard the long decked ships; not so my body.
That must be given to my kin, committed
to fire by the Trojans and their women.
And if I kill this man, if Lord Apollo
grants me victory, his helm and shield
I shall unstrap and bring to Ilion
to hang before the Archer Apollo's shrine.
But his dead body I'll restore to your encampment by the well-trimmed ships.
Akhaians there may give him funeral and heap a mound for him by Helle's water.
One day a man on shipboard, sailing by
on the wine-dark sea, will point landward and say:
'There is the death mound of an ancient man,
a hero who fought Hektor and was slain.'
Someone will say that someday. And the honor
won by me here will never pass away."
Odyssey, book ten, Odysseus speaking:
"Then toward Olympos through the island trees
Hermes departed, and I sought out Kirke,
my heart high with excitement, beating hard.
Before her mansion in the porch I stood
to call her, all being still. Quick as a cat
she opened her bright doors and sighed a welcome;
then I strode after her with heavy heart
down the long hall, and took the chair she gave me,
silver-studded, intricately carved,
made with a low footrest. The Lady Kierke
mixed me a golden cup of honeyed wined,
adding in mischief her unholy drug.
I drank, and the drink failed. But she came forward
aiming a stroke with her long stick and whispered:
'Down in the sty and snore among the rest!'
Iliad was better because it has minimum righteous authority in it (like the Gods pitying Hector's corpse getting desecrated and abused) that allows more questioning of it's characters and their actions. Odyssey sucked in that regard, and seemed to be something that was popular and survived through the ages when many other epics of the Greek archaic-literary age didn't was that it was probably intended to be recited to people coming to age back then to teach them approved nomos.
>>8272830
I read Lawrence his prose translation of Odysseus, did I miss out?
>>8273010
Schwartz
>>8273902
>Life has loose ends, and so should plots.
Grats, stupidest thing I read on /lit/ all week and I read that econ thread.
Can we at least recall that these are both fragments of the great lost epic cycle?
The eternal #1 in the list of lost books I want found:The full Greek Epic Cycle of Troy, much of which is lost, except in fragments and later summaries. The eight works together told the entire history of the Trojan War in epic verse.
1. Cypria (11 books by Stasinus): the events leading up to the Trojan War and the first nine years of the conflict, especially the Judgement of Paris.(fifty lines remain of the original text)
2. Iliad (24 books by Homer): Achilles' rage against first king Agamemnon and then the Trojan prince Hector, ending with Achilles killing Hector in revenge for the death of Patroclus and Priam coming to Achilles to ransom Hector's body. (full manuscripts remain of the original text)
3. Aethiopis 5 books by Arctinus): the arrival of the Trojan allies, Penthesileia the Amazon and Memnon; their deaths at Achilles' hands in revenge for the death of Antilochus; Achilles' own death. (only five lines remain of the original text)
4. Ilias Mikra ("Little Iliad" 4 books by Lesches): events after Achilles' death, including the building of the Trojan Horse and the Awarding of the Arms to Odysseus. (nearly thirty lines remain of the original text)
5. Iliou persis ("Sack of Troy" 2 books by Arctinus): the destruction of Troy by the Greeks. (only ten lines remain of the original text)
6. Nostoi ("returns" 5 books by Agias or Eumelus): the return home of the Greek force and the events contingent upon their arrival, concluding with the returns of Agamemnon and Menelaus. (five and a half lines remain of the original text)
7. Odyssey (24 books by Homer): the end of Odysseus' voyage home and his vengeance on his wife Penelope's suitors, who have devoured his property in his absence.(full manuscripts remain of the original text)
8. Telegony (2 books by Eugammon): Odysseus' voyage to Thesprotia and return to Ithaca, and death at the hands of an illegitimate son Telegonus. (only two lines remain of the original text)
Maybe someday... from Oxyrhynchus or another treasure-trove.
>>8274822
I never knew I wanted this, but I do, and badly.
>>8274854
I know, anon. Once you're fully aware of the loss, it haunts your dreams forever, like the library of Alexandria.
>>8272871
-living in japan, who moved there to hopefully hook up with anime watching qts? so do i.
Did anyone else think the chapter where Odysseus kills the suitors is kind of clunky? He's shooting arrows at them and they're spending most of the time arguing amongst themselves.
