This is not bait or trolling, please serious conversation only.
I have been thinking about transsexuals a lot recently and figured this was a good place to get another perspective.
I'm all for personal freedom, aka if your not hurting someone then go for it. My question is should a transsexual desiring conversion surgery be considered a person suffering from an mental disorder?
Mental health is varied and complex. There are a lot of disorders that compel people to make drastic changes to their body. Some feel their limbs don't belong to their body and want to cut them off. Some feel they are missing something (surgery to install horns on the skull, or graft animal parts onto their body). Others feel they need to cut into their brain to get voices out, or they want to live as a doll and have surgery to become a living barbie. All have a reason in their mind that makes perfect sense to them.
In all of these cases the person is considered to be sick and requiring help from society. They are offered therapy to try neutralising the compulsion when it gets to the point of self-mutilation (what else can you call removing your healthy arms and legs) which is not always successful.
I don't think these people deserve to be locked up against their will. But they do deserve to know their suffering an illness whether caused by chemical imbalance or mental trauma and ways to fight against it.
So then we come to being trans. Ignorant people who don't like anything different persecuted trans people. So there was a big push and now the "society morals" say there is nothing wrong with being trans. Not only is it not bad, it's an amazing thing and coming out can get you into a supportive trans community that are willing to help you every step of the way.
>>6556996
I think the big push for trans acceptance to stop (in my opinion, victims of a disorder) people attacking trans went the wrong way from "stop attacking trans people" to "there is nothing wrong with being trans". Put an alcoholic in a society of heavy drinkers and they won't be able to stop killing themselves, most of the time. What would we say if a society supported BIID and taught kids that it was a great thing to cut off your left arm, and saying otherwise made you a bigot?
So in conclusion.
> I think trans should be considered a victim of ab mental disorder like the examples above.
> I think teaching kids not to hate anyone for any reason is good, but not that embracing a disorder is a good thing for your mental health.
TL:DR - If your not gonna read it, then don't offer an opinion on it.
>>6556996
>My question is should a transsexual desiring conversion surgery be considered a person suffering from an mental disorder?
Didn't even read past this. Don't need to.
Yes. It is a mental illness. I say this as a tranny.
Think of it. My body prior to transition was a totally normal male body, in every way. My genes were normal male genes (so far there is no evidence for a "tranny" gene that can be passed down, maybe it's a mutation that happens randomly or something randomly gets fucked up, but it doesn't matter because mental illnesses don't stop being mental illnesses just because they're genetic).
The only part that was for-sure not working the way it would in a normal male was my brain. What's it called when your brain is working differently in such a way that it has a serious negative impact on your life and well-being? A mental illness. Being transgender is having a mental illness. No healthy and normal male wants to be a girl his whole life -THIS BADLY-
That said the only known "cure" which is more of just a way to ease the negative impacts of the symptoms and make it so you can hopefully live relatively comfortably in your own skin, is to pop hormones and maybe get surgeries and try to hopefully live as a girl.
Don't let anyone try to fool you OP. This -is- for sure undeniably a mental illness. Anyone and anything saying otherwise is either pandering to political correctness, not seeing the whole picture, or is delusional.
But I wouldn't go around calling it a mental illness because people will get bugurt and it's not worth the trouble, even though it is undeniably a mental illness. It's too bad people aren't more realistic about this shit. There's nothing wrong with being mentally ill, if someone is mentally ill, it is not their own fault, at least not for something like this. No reason to worry about it, only reason to try to make things better.
http://archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/search/text/Transgender%20mental%20illness%20/type/op/
>>6557119
Do you feel bad for TERFs that everybody hartes them for holding the same opinion?
>>6557127
He is right in that it is a mental illness. His ignorance lies in the fact that he doesn't realize there is no way to make it go away other than transitioning or killing yourself.
Trust me, if there was I would have taken it. I tried hard to find other ways to get rid of it. I tried it all. It didn't work. Transitioning did, but I only did it as a last resort and I hated to do it, it's the last thing that I ever wanted to do. I didn't fucking want to do it, but this shit was so bad that I had to try that last thing prior to taking the true last resort, which would have been a .308 soft point round to the head.
It's not "pandering to your mental illness" it's the one and only way to ease the negative effects caused by the symptoms of the mental illness, at least for now.
Had I been offered a pill that would make me stop being trans and be totally fine with being male, I would have taken it instead in a heartbeat.
OP do you really think I wanted to alienate myself from my entire family save for two people? No. Do you think I wanted to alienate myself from the vast majority of my friends - partly of my own volition because of how cringey it is to be this and do this? No. I didn't fucking want this. Nobody did. Nobody wants to have to transition, everybody wishes that they could have just not had to deal with this shit instead of transitioning. So many of us put it off for so long just because of that - we don't want to do this thing which is incredibly cringey and fucking horrifying to think about doing yourself. Imagine all the people in your life knowing that, it's fucking horrible. I sure as shit didn't want to do it, and I only did it as the very last resort prior to suicide. I almost said fuck it and blew my head off instead.
I'm this poster by the way >>6557119
>>6557182
Yeah in a way. I hate women in general and think they're fucking retards so there is that for you. Lesbians are even worse. Anyway though, I feel bad that people aren't allowed to hold true, factual opinions, and it annoys me that I'm going to have trannies come around and tell me I'm self-hating and shit just because I'm honest with myself.
Let's be honest though, I like their delicious tears, so here's another one:
Trannies are not women. We cannot and never will be women. We are mentally ill men who have altered their bodies -severly- and to some detriment to our own health, in order to get rid of the negative effects of being trans. We exchanged the risks of HRT, being permanently stuck taking externally-sourced hormones for the rest of our lives, on top of the social and familial repercussions, and sterility, just to make ourselves have a chance at feeling some semblance of normal.
No matter how good a tranny looks, they are not a woman. I am a man, all you other mtf trannies are men. We are heavily altered men. We refer to ourselves as female, take female pronouns, name, appearance, so on and so forth, but that doesn't make us female, just something that looks like it if we're lucky. This is why trannies have problems dating no matter how good we look. No matter how good it gets, you're still a man, and you'll never be that girl. You'll just get as close to it as you can so you can live as comfortably as you can.
>>6556996
There's a pretty big difference between these things.
>People who are born without limbs
Those born without limbs do still want to have said limbs, and they'll be happy to have artificial limbs, even if it isn't their own.
So, it's not a natural feeling to want to amputate said body'-part. It also leaves you crippled.
Afaik, most people with BIID can be cured with therapy, so that suggests it's a mental disorder.
Some people feel like they should be mentally retarded, which again, is not something a mentally retarded feel like they should be. It's a desire based on some form of mental illness.
>People who do body mods
It's not human to be born with those types of body mods. So it cannot have a biological basis.
>People who want to be of the opposite sex
There are people being born of both sexes. We have examples of people being born intersex, who want to be of a specific sex. As well as brain disections showing there are gendered brains, and that trans people don't match cis brains.
That means there's biological grounds for transsexualism to exist.
>>6557216
Nobody cares about your failed transition hon.
>>6557331
See what I'm talking about? Trannies get bugurt when someone is realistic, and they lash out like that.
Protip: if I had a failed transition I would have eaten a bullet. I started transition 8 years ago.
>>6556996
Yes transgender people suffer from a disorder and its symptom is gender dysphoria.
>I think the big push for trans acceptance to stop (in my opinion, victims of a disorder) people attacking trans went the wrong way from "stop attacking trans people" to "there is nothing wrong with being trans".
then what is it supposed to mean when you say its wrong to have a disorder
>>6557404
You're projecting your own reasoning to why you "won't bother", and why you failed. Just so you don't have to admit you happen to be so masculine looking, and have such a masculine personality, that transition just isn't possible for you, and despite everything you could possible do, you'd still look and behave like a man.
vast majority of trans people never get any surgery and to get it in the US you need to have been diagnosed by a psychiatrists as having the mental illess of gender identity disorder
so everyone actually involved in the process knows it's a mental illness but SJWs on tumblr don't who you should really learn are mostly teenagers trying to fit in with their internet friends
>>6556996
Maybe these scientific studies will give you some insight on trans people's brains. I'm too lazy to quote them so you can click on them and read them yourself.
http://www.springer.com/cda/content/document/cda_downloaddocument/9781461474401-c1.pdf?SGWID=0-0-45-1445735-p175098593
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19403051
http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/11/2525.short
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0085914
I wouldn't consider transgender people mentally ill at all. Their brains have an androgynous makeup at most. Having another one of these threads every day is tiring.
>>6557404
>bugurt
oh never mind everybody its just a false flagging femboy all dysphoric over his tits, move on
>>6556996
Being trans is like being gay, except it changes your gender identity instead of your sexuality.
You can't cure it with psycotherapy or conversion camps, it's not like depression.
HRT is proven to increase the overall well-being of transsexual patients.
That is all. Sage because we see this thread every fucking day.
>>6557119
Thanks for educating me, mate. I've only ever talked to "jail/kill lgbt" and "I'm getting my 1 year old conversion surgery". I know people would get upset if I ran around calling them crazy when I found out they were Trans, that's not my intent. This is mostly just to poke at my own opinions.
>>6557127
Sorry, this is my first time on this board.
>>6557185
I understand the fact of disorders being on a scale from manageable to suicide inducing (I'm extremely anti-social and forcing myself to have conversations makes me dream of jumping off buildings every day. It's been 10 years of therapy and relapses with tiny progress. )
A lot of disorders the doctors DO recommend doing a surgery because they tried everything else and it didn't work for whatever reason.
I didn't mean to imply you could just 'stop' being ill.
>>6557329
Can you link me or tell me who did the brain research? I've honestly never read any papers on this subject yet. That's why I'm here, to learn.
>>6557542
Thank you for the links!
>>6557509
Wrong as recognizing trans as an serious illness and not a way to make your 2yr old daughter into a son, or becoming a woman instead of accepting your gay, because you think being trans is a choice.
>>6557610
people with dysphoria have an illness but a transitioning femboy is just exercising their freedom of expression
>or becoming a woman instead of accepting your gay
Trans folk are not as accepted by society as gay people so this seems very unlikely. Actually passing is a feat that takes work and dedication too, so it isnt like a cop out.
>>6556996
"Hey guys, i think ive been thinking about this for a while and ive come to some interesting and possibly controversial conclusions, let me share my thoughts here"
>posts generally known medical fact easily discovered through five minutes of googling
thanks that was very insightful
>>6557610
>can you link me or tell me who did the brain research?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality
>>6557185
>Had I been offered a pill that would make me stop being trans and be totally fine with being male, I would have taken it instead in a heartbeat.
Now, I don't understand this question
I'm trans, I have a male body yet whatever is wrong with my brain makes me hate being a man and want to change it
After I began puberty, I spiraled into a useless and destructive depression for six years
Now that I've fucking cratered my life, I finally worked up the fortitude to tell my parents, get therapy, and get treatment in the form of hormones
If the option were not to transition but instead to become comfortable as a male, that pistol is looking mighty tasty
>>6557185
>Had I been offered a pill that would make me stop being trans and be totally fine with being male, I would have taken it instead in a heartbeat.
So if your brain and body have a mismatch, you think it's more proper to make your mind align with your body than your body align with your mind?
You do realize that physically altering your mind changes who you are as a person right? You wouldn't be you anymore technically.
I feel kinda bad for you, you're going to be in a dark place for a long time.
>>6556996
>My question is should a transsexual desiring conversion surgery be considered a person suffering from an mental disorder?
Because it's not believed to be related to chemical imbalances, or whatever else may cause something like clinical depression. The current working theory is that sexual orientation and gender identity are both determined by hormonal conditions in the womb during gestation, which is to say these hormones shape how the fetus' brain will develop. The physical shape and features of the brain are a different matter from chemical balances or other such compositions. So gender dysphoria / being transgender is regarded as a medical / physical condition, and not a mental illness.
The reason it's regarded as any kind of condition at all is because the brain is obviously out of sync with the body. The brain's physical features share some commonalities with that of the opposite sex, so the person therefore identifies as the opposite sex. This results in "dysphoria," or stress.
You'll notice I mentioned that sexual orientation is thought to be caused by the same (or similar) factors as gender dysphoria, but being gay or bisexual is not considered any kind of medical condition. The difference is that variations in sexual orientation don't necessarily stress those affected by them because nothing is out of place. The only consideration there is environmental factors, such as growing up in a bigoted culture. A trans person on the other hand is going to be stressed by their gender identity not matching their physical gender, no matter what kind of environment they may be brought up in. So being trans presents medical symptoms that need to be addressed, which are usually addressed through transition. (i.e. hormone replacement therapy and sex reassignment)
