LGBT, I just wanna be a cute gril
Is there any hope for me?
If you are serious shave your face and come back
>>6524287
please, dont you look fucking cute already and i would let you big spoon me all day but please dont do it to yourself.
>>6524287
No you don't. You have a mental illness. Get help.
>>6525153
Would you say the same if he looked fem?
No, you would fap to him and asked him to show his feminine boypenis.
>>6525192
No, I would still say he has a mental illness. If you have Y chromosomes, you will always be a man.
>>6525200
LOL
>>6525208
Nice argument, hon.
>>6525200
what is a man?
(besides a pile of blahblah)
>>6525217
Kill yourself my man.
How's that for an argument?
>>6525235
>nobody is trans
kek, you're delusional
>>6524287
Get a boyfriend, he'll make you feel like one.
>>6525235
Sorry, I left my suicide in my other pants.
>>6525250
Yet you haven't provided me with a single argument. Denial is a common defense mechanism. Sorry that I don't pander to your delusion.
>>6525235
Chromosomes are invisible to the naked eye. Are you able to see chromosomes in people around you?
Does that mean you are unable to tell men and women apart?
>>6524287
If you shaved it would be easier to tell. To my eyes though, your ratios look okay, nose is a little wide but not outside an acceptable bound. Skull is noticeably large.
If you want a better opinion, shave, take a profile shot and a frontal shot, and for God sake don't look to 4chan for advice. /lgbt/ is not a healthy place for early transitions.
Also, try smiling a little. It's feminine, and it'll make you feel better.
>>6525259
Not OP but sometimes I wonder if I should just do that. I know already it's not worthy transitioning at my age since I will look like a hon (27) but I really don't like going outside or letting people look at me because It feels like there's something wrong aka I'm not a girl.
There's no winning I guess, probably have to an hero soon.
>>6525263
defense against what in this situation
it would be pretty cool if everyone was cis
>>6524287
ayy there is much hope my good OP
much hope indeed
>>6525200
>If you have Y chromosomes, you will always be a man
Factually incorrect. Learn your shit before you shitpost 6th grader.
>>6524287
>>6525297
Atoms are invisible, does this invalidate them to? Is oxygen not oxygen because you can't see it?
What are you doing man.
>>6525570
When was the last time you looked at something and said "This is a cat. I can tell because of the atomic structure. That is what really matters, and not anything else."
>>6525588
The point I was making is a thing is what it is no matter how you dress it up. What is being proposed is a wiener dog dressed up as a cat and some one saying why wont you agree that this is a cat. Well because that is biologically a dog every cell in it is that of a dog, not matter what we say it is.
>>6525570
Can you tell atoms apart? Do you tell apart things around you because of their atoms?
Is there any hope for me?
>>6525602
But chromosomes aren't even the end all factor when it comes to sex. There is such a thing as women with XY chromosomes, and there's no way to even tell unless they happen to notice it while doing other genetic testing.
So unless you want to force everyone you interact with to get genetic testing done just so you know which pronoun to use, then you're going to have to just deal with the fact that chromosomes are a shitty means to determine gender.
>>6525602
The point is you arbitrarily decided that a gender is only defined by its chromosomes, which actually have 0 impact on people and no one can tell apart.
You're kind of retarded. Your homophobia sounds very "scientific" though, heh... good luck finding those chromosomes no one cares about... make sure tell us how it went
>>6525602
are you fucking retarded? dogs and cats are different species, females and males are not
you are literally comparing apples and oranges there you bumbling faggotron
>>6525200
>>6525235
>>6525602
>look ma, I posted it again! GET THE CAMERA MOMMY!!!
>>6524287
You can be my little girl if you like, but keep the beard
>>6525607
Why be a girl when you can become the joker?.
>>6525602
Lmao, everything remains consistently itself but what matter we portion off and its characteristics when collectively defined and named are tools for thinking about and communicating about reality. The difference between cats and dogs are inventions which are useful to us but not themselves facts about reality.
>>6524287
>another one fell for the moe trap
>>6524287
>being this cute already as a man
>wanting to become a cute girl
do you actually feel like you're trans or just that you like feminine stuff and crossdressing
>>6524287
ngl you look like you'd be cute with no beard
why the ever loving fuck would you grow it in the first place if you're trans tho?
>>6525626
>There is such a thing as women with XY chromosomes
Not that guy, but those are intersexed individuals. They are very rare "exceptions" (mutation) to the rule. If you are born with XY chromosomes and unambiguous male genitalia, you are a man (a male human adult). It doesn't matter what you do to yourself after the fact, you will always be a man.
>>6525654
I'm gay so you can stop using identity to bolster your argument. I am not saying that you cannot think you are a what ever gender. What I am saying is that what you think and what is true in reality are different. This is the problem. You can say that gender is not based on biology, fine, but if your gender does not mach your biology i.e. fucking reality you are under a delusion. I don't need to argue chromosomes or atoms or any of it to objectively show this. If there is a dick present you are male and if you think otherwise there is something wrong. There is not primacy of consciousness your mind and thought does not magically dictate reality it has been here long before and will be long after us. Law of identity, A is A, is in full effect here.
>>6525200
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis
these people have XY chromosomes but develop fully functioning try again
>>6524287
idk about you becoming a girl but a night with me and you would feel like one
>>6525761
you do realize there are other sexual characteristics besides dicks and vaginas right? plus if it matters that much to you there's always srs
>b-b-but neovaginas are just inverted dicks
yes but they're literally made of the same type of tissue, so it does essentually become a vagina under female hormones
you sound autistic af anyway
>>6525705
>when collectively defined and named are tools for thinking about and communicating about reality
Correct
>The difference between cats and dogs are inventions which are useful to us but not themselves facts about reality
Incorrect
There is an objective truth, and cats are objectively not dogs. This simply isn't arguable. Some things just aren't. Similarly, there are no frame of reference in which the world is flat or vaccines cause autism. No matter how you look at those conjectures, they are just false.
>>6525681
Are there not huge physical differences between the sexes? Can a man actually fill the role of the female. The answer is resounding no. There are, as you have probably notice large differences in body and mind between men and women, we may be the same species, but tell me again how we are just interchangeable.
>>6525783
>they're literally made of the same type of tissue, so it does essentually become a vagina under female hormones
No, the vagina isn't just a juicy fuckhole.
Just out of curiosity, how would you define "woman"?
>>6525799
>No, the vagina isn't just a juicy fuckhole.
yes it pretty much is, the things it's connected to (womb, ovaries, etc) might not be but those are irrelevant for things that aren't childbirth
>Just out of curiosity, how would you define "woman"?
it's a combination of both sexual characteristics and your mental gender identity really. thats why transpeople take hormones to feminize (or masculize) their bodies.
>tfw even though you never grew a beard you still look far more gross and masculine than heavy dht bearded fucks
>>6525783
That did not address my main point. In fact you you completely missed it or avoided it.
>you sound autistic af anyway
Maybe idk I never was tested for it.
SRS does not end with you having a real vagina, plain and simple. I don't think I need to elaborate on why.
The whole thing a transperson can do is only cosmetic. there is nothing you can do to change what really matters with sex(and by sex I mean genitals not he act), reproduction.
>>6525809
>those are irrelevant
Actually, those are pretty important. The ovaries produce and regulate female hormones. And the ability to get pregnant is a defining feature of an adult human female.
>mental gender identity
And what is that supposed to be?
>>6525837
>SRS does not end with you having a real vagina, plain and simple. I don't think I need to elaborate on why.
actually yes you do; repeating it won't make it true.
it's a fact that genital tissue is essentially the same regardless of sex, and it's the hormone levels that turn it into a vagina or a penis. srs simply remolds your genitalia into the proper shape but hormones do the real work.
>reproduction
so, let's say, women on menopause aren't "real" women according to you?
>>6524287
I'm not sure what you mean, But I think you could do pretty girl easy. Very pretty even.
There are only 2 Genders lmao
>>6525849
>Actually, those are pretty important.
>for things that aren't childbirth
i mean sure you can argue that fully transitioned transwomen aren't 100% women but they aren't 100% men either and they're far more female than male if you go by sex characteristics anyway. in fact, you can argue lots of cis people aren't "100% men/women" too.
>And what is that supposed to be?
basically your brain expects you to be one gender, but your body is the other.
>>6525853
>actually yes you do; repeating it won't make it true.
Tell me how that vagina could have the possibility of pushing a kid out of it? Please I'll wait.
>so, let's say, women on menopause aren't "real" women according to you?
This fucking trope again. Jesus she had the working equipment at one point to have children. She was born with the equipment to have children. Even a woman who say is barren. She still has ovaries ,she still has breasts that produce milk, she still has a self lubing vagina.
What does SRS have? Literally, and I cannot use this word more LITERALLY, an inside out dick, with no ovaries, no lubrication, no chance ever in that persons life of baring children and no milk producing breasts.
How is this person female?
>>6525866
Don't worry, we were all 4th graders once.
>>6525867
>basically your brain expects you to be one gender
And for all those people whose brains have no expectations? (i.e. most people) Those are just feelings, why are they at all relevant in a biological sense?
>fully transitioned transwomen aren't 100% women but they aren't 100% men either
They are mutilated men. Similar to castrates and eunuchs.
>they're far more female than male if you go by sex characteristics anyway
Removing two wheels from a car gets you a broken car, not a motorcycle.
>lots of cis people aren't "100% men/women" too
Could you give some examples?
>>6525895
Don't worry when you get out of college real life will hit.
>>6525887
like i said, a vagina is still a vagina regardless if it's attached to ovaries or a womb. if you want to argue that those are characteristics of a female that transwomen lack you're right, but other sex characteristics matter too.
>no lubrication
uhh that's a meme. read this: http://www.gendercare.com/library/italiano_paper1.html
>>6525904
I hope it doesn't hit me hard enough to cause amnesia like it did for you apparently. There's no way you made it through college without learning that "only two genders" is something they teach elementary schoolers so they don't have to get into biology before kids are old enough to understand it.
>>6525898
>And for all those people whose brains have no expectations?
what makes you think cis people don't have gendered brains? brain scans indicate the opposite.
>They are mutilated men. Similar to castrates and eunuchs.
so you have no idea how sex reassignment actually works, cool.
>Removing two wheels from a car gets you a broken car, not a motorcycle.
yes it does, how is that relevant?
>Could you give some examples?
tons: women on menopause, women born with dysfunctional testes, etc.
intersex conditions are more common than you probably think but in most cases people flat out dont care
>>6525908
>like i said, a vagina is still a vagina regardless if it's attached to ovaries or a womb
Yes I agree, still srs surgery is taking a dick turning it inside out in the body of the person. That is still dick skin and maybe over time with hormones it is less so but that does not make a woman, given that all the other characteristics that make up the biology of a female are missing.
I will read this article though, thanks.
>>6525932
like i said, dick skin and vagina skin aren't that different, hormones can essentially turn genital tissue from one to the other. it sucks for ftms tho since there usually isn't enough vaginal tissue to mold a penis.
>>6525927
I majored in philosophy. I knew about it, and had some discussions on it, but I disagree with the whole premise, fetishes are not genders.
>>6525941
I understand, I can concede a bit on this, but this is not what makes a female, and I do not think that currently this is how we should treat people who are trans. IMO
>>6525932
Who gives a shit about how legitimately female current medical techniques can make you?
Lab grown vaginas exist. Are they real women? If you put a lab grown vagina onto a rat, does it become a real woman? What about if you put a lab grown vagina onto a man?
If you put a lab grown vagina onto a woman does she stop being a real woman? What if it's in the wrong place, like on her arm or some shit?
What about in 60 years when we can create entire human bodies and just transplant brains into them or some shit?
At what point do bodies and body parts become inauthentic? Is there even such a point at all, or is the best argument in defense of such a point nothing more than a pile of arbitrary bullshit propagated by people outside their comfort zone?
>>6525929
>intersex conditions are more common
1 in 2000 is not "lots of cis people". Also, can intersex individuals even be considered "cis"? They do not fit within the sex binary.
>women on menopause
That doesn't make them in any way male. It is just a different stage in the life cycle.
>yes it does, how is that relevant?
No... broken cars are not motorcycles. Something doesn't "become" another thing just because they "share some characteristics". Likewise, if I wore a cat costume and shat in a litterbox it still doesn't make me a cat, even though I "share more characteristics" with a cat than a person.
>so you have no idea how sex reassignment actually works
You have no idea what a woman is. Trans "women" are closer to eunuchs and castrates than they are to a female human adult.
>what makes you think cis people don't have gendered brains?
So it's not that your brain "expects you to be a gender" but an observable feature on the brain?
>>6525761
>Law of identity, A is A, is in full effect here.
Aren't you embarrassed about typing these kind of things? lol
>>6525946
>I majored in philosophy
Good for you. I don't see how philosophy has anything to do with the biological fact that more than two genders exist but ok.
Actually, since you're a philosophy major I should probably be saying "more than two sexes exist" so you can understand that I am talking about the physiological side of things and not the psychological side.
>>6525961
When you can transplant a brain or completely alter a person body to that sex we no longer have to have this argument.
>muh chromosomes
>being literally this insecure
>>6525961
>At what point do bodies and body parts become inauthentic?
When we can actually "create entire human bodies and just transplant brains into them or some shit". I don't think it's in 60 years, though. I would give it at LEAST a century.
>>6525978
So transgender people are mentally ill batshit lunatics who don't deserve rights or respect only because medical science hasn't progressed enough yet?
>>6525972
>Aren't you embarrassed about typing these kind of things? lol
Not at all.
And guess what?
THAT'S NOT AN ARGUMENT
>>6525986
>insecure
I think you're projecting tbqh.
>>6525991
>I don't think it's in 60 years, though. I would give it at LEAST a century.
Eh, depends on how butthurt it makes christfags. We could probably get to that point in like 30 years if there was enough support for research and shit.
>>6525999
It is an argument. Law of identity, A is A, is in full effect here.
>>6525997
No one is saying that. I just don't agree that trans people should be allowed to change necessary definitions because they have a mental illness.
>>6526006
You're projecting is the internet argument equivalent of "no, u". Get lost.
>>6525997
Wait when did I say they don't deserve rights, oh right I didn't and you are putting words in my mouth to create a straw man. Also we probably have very different ideas on what a right is so you might want to define that.
>>6525975
>talking about the physiological side of things and not the psychological side.
Way to be on explaining defining your shit. I can agree there, with people like hermaphrodites and such, but that really only gets us to 3.
>>6525978
>>6525997
Adding onto that, does that mean that when we can transplant brains into lab grown bodies that poor trans people who can't afford the procedure or have to settle for a cheaper, lower quality body are mentally ill lunatics, but rich trans people who can buy the latest model in the iBody™ line are perfectly normal and mentally sound individuals?
>>6526016
What the fuck are you saying? Nobody is changing chromosomes here.
>>6526024
>but that really only gets us to 3.
Uhh no. Especially not if you consider other life forms, but even if you limit it to only humans there are so many different intersex conditions and variations of those conditions that sex effectively becomes a spectrum of unique snowflakes.
>>6525784
I'm not sure you understood me. Where one object starts and another begins is a distinction which only exists in the mind of the viewer: it's a superimposition on the input which the viewer had perceived but not a feature of the perceived without the viewer. I can make a tape square on some pavement and call it placeinsidethesquare-istan just like someone can decide where my cat ends and my carpet starts. You can decide that your definition of cat and dog means that a group of matter cannot simultaneously be said to be both but it should be understood that cat and dog are not properties of these matter groups until a viewer such as you constructs them.
>>6525741
repression probs
>>6526011
Can't reply to this, can you? The flaw in your stupid reasoning is that you defined genders in your own terms arbitrarily, and you can only repeat "I say A is A so A is A".
>>6526016
>necessary definitions
Necessary for what? To justify your hatred of trans people?
Unless you're going to fuck them then who gives a shit about their genitals? What matters to you in everyday life is their appearance and the pronouns you refer to them by. Everything beyond that is none of your business.
Honestly if it didn't make it easier to form heterosexual relationships and therefore have kids, gender could be entirely abolished from out society and nothing meaningful would change. In fact now that we have dating apps and shit we don't even need to project our gender in order to form relationships and potentially have children. Thanks to tinder and eharmony the possibility of a genderless society is now viable.
>>6526009
>We could probably get to that point in like 30 years if there was enough support for research and shit.
No, we could get it in a century if there was a lot of support for the research. The issue isn't just medical, there are a lot of technical issues that needs to be sorted out. We would need better operating equipment, which would require better engineering. This is only on the technical side too. Getting it legalized and up for human trials would be really really difficult, as would finding actual test subjects. The US is also moving away from funding research science. Everything is probably going into the private sector. Also with the recent instability in the EU, I think we might have to wait for China or India to catch up on the scientific front before we see any more huge breakthroughs.
>>6526054
>I say A is A so A is A
Well anon, I have no idea what you're trying to argue for or against, but the concept of "A" only exists because people say A is A. If people decided to start saying that A was B, or that A didn't exist, then A would become B/stop existing.
That sort of how social constructs(like gender roles, language, time, etc.) work.
>>6526022
It's a suitable response to the "no ur just insecure" internet argument. I'm here if you feel like making actual points.
>>6526034
The definition of man (adult human male) and woman (adult human female) should not change just because of a minority group's mental illness.
>>6526060
>Necessary for what?
The definition of man and woman are important from a medical and social standpoint. Trying to blur the lines to cater to a small subset of the populations that has a serious mental illness is not in anyone's best interest.
>>6526086
>medical
yes, but since being trans is already such a huge deal in a medical context AND man and woman are not the same thing in a medical context as they are in a social context, I get the feeling that the medical field would survive having the social definition of man and woman blurred a little more than it already is.
>social
no, not really. the only purposes it serves are to promote gender roles, sexism, transphobia and the formation of heterosexual relationships. the first three are not in any way necessary or helpful. the last one is basically irrelevant in the modern day.
if the concept of gender wasn't ingrained into our language through pronouns and such, then people wouldn't even give a shit about gender outside of sexual, romantic and medical reasons.
>>6526069
You haven't explained yet why chromosomes define your gender. Your childish one-line argument is based on a baseless assumption.
Here's the explanation for the mentally challenged, you seem to need it: chromosomes determine the development of physiological characteristics during your life. Those physiological characteristics are what define your gender.
Chromosomes don't mean shit if your body develops in a different way through other mechanisms, like HRT or surgery, which are rudimentary at the moment but effectively work. Chromosomes indicate a trigger on the same level as these, they are not your gender.
Chromosomes will only define your body if left unattended, and your body will define your gender.
The other funny consequence of this is that bodies develop in different degrees in a spectrum, therefore, gender is a spectrum.
This is like if we had a light switch and it was off. Then I short the cables behind the switch and the light turns on, but you keep screaming "the light is off, because the switch is off!!".
But there's light motherfucker.
are youcam makeup pics good indicator of passing ability?
can i use those to ask because i don't own good makeup.
>>6525345
Yeah that's not argument you delusional faggot. Back yourself up with facts.
>>6525691
>ABLOO ABLOO ABLOO WHY WON'T HE ACCEPT MY MENTAL ILLNESS
>>6525732
Y Chromosome = Male (unless you have Swyer Syndrome)
>>6525765
Intersex people who suffer from a mutation and hormone imbalance. This might be just about the only exception. And guess what? It's so small it's barely even there. I doubt that even 5% of the trannies on here were both that way.
>>6524287
>have a full fucking beard
>d-do you think i can pass you guys???
you are retarded my man
>>6526086
You do know that the treatment for gender dysphoria is to live as your internal gender, right?
If you really cared about medical science, you would treat us as our internal gender so we can follow the doctor's orders and live that way to qualify for transition (thereby curing our disorder).
And, you do know there are multiple factors other than chromosomes that go into biological sex, right? Biologists don't even have a consensus on whether to call post-op trans people biologically men or women. Transitioned trans people are intersex, so at the very least you can respect them at that point.
>>6527976
Mutilating your body is not the answer and you're delusional if you think it is. I'm schizophrenic. When the TV set talks to me, do people pander to my delusion that my TV set is taking to me? Does my family get me more TV sets so I can have a nice happy circle of friends? No. They put me on medication to make sure the TV set stops talking to me because TV sets do not talk to people. That's not normal. Neither is thinking you're "the wrong gender" (only one exception for people with Swyer syndrome and that's such a small minority it almost never happens.) We need to focus on developing therapy that makes feelings of dysphoria go away. We need to stop pandering to delusion and spread awareness so we can find a cure.
>>6524287
Fuck off keemstar
>>6525235
Its not the chromosome, its the genes that just happen to be located there. You should realize the Y chromosome is not the only chromosome to carry genes that can make a person develop as biological male.
dumbass kek
>>6532474
Look up the definition of biological sex. Genetic material is one factor of many and IMO not the most important for a post-transition person.
>>6532474
http://www.askabiologist.org.uk/answers/viewtopic.php?id=15258
>>6532570
>shaved yesterday and in the process of regretting and regrowing.
At least I can still have nice hair as a boy.
>>6532447
>We need to focus on developing therapy that makes feelings of dysphoria go away.
Yes, I agree. Perhaps you should be the one to develop it. I'm looking forward to being cured of this dreadful condition, by you, you wonderful person.
But until then fuck right off.
>>6532618
>But until then I'm going to cut my cock off and pretend to be something I'm not because I'm mentally ill
Fix'd 4 u bb
