> Help, advice, guidance on medications and dosages
> HRT related medical experiences and research
> Availability and pricing of medications
>Rational and scientific discussion
Please take the survey and help us determine the best medications, dosages, and treatment regime to get the results we want.
▶Survey: https://1drv.ms/xs/s!AudRJceTA5C9c2G5lCV2Avq0kQ0
▶Raw survey data: https://1drv.ms/x/s!AudRJceTA5C9cyIWo6_X14AvHyM
▶Where to get meds: https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/c-88-transgender.aspx
▶ Also here: https://www.qhi.co.uk/
▶ Pill Identification: https://www.drugs.com/imprints.php
▶ Basic hrt info: http://www.trans-health.com/2002/hrt-self-medication/
▶ Hormone target ranges: http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/hrt_ref.htm
▶ Hormone Diagram: http://oi68.tinypic.com/33253sn.jpg
▶TransDIY : https://www.reddit.com/r/transDIY
Previously on hrtg: >>6462207
>>6510975
We should probably add Alldaychemist to the OP for where to get hrt. They're more expensive normally but they track the packages and don't require a prescription (had a friend actually have ihp enforce the prescription rule and had a qhi shipment never arrive with no clue where it was, so it may be worth the little extra cash to some to go ADC)
>>6511372
>ihp enforce the prescription rule
Wow really? What country was your friend in? was it for hrt?
>>6511372
adc is usually cheaper unless you buy very small amounts
>>6511470
She's in the US, they sent her an email saying something along the lines of it being canceled since they haven't gotten a prescription emailed in yet, and they were refunding her the money. And yes, it was for Spiro and E.
>>6511518
Fair enough, I always got 3 or so months in an order, cost about $80 a month for cypro and e.
I'm on 100mg of spironolactone per day and it's making me constipated. Would taking laxatives be okay, considering the water loss on top of that from the diuretic effect of the spiro?
I'm going to insist on switching to cyproterone acetate the next time I see my endocrinologist, but I can't go for an appointment for a while and I'm hoping I just can deal with the side effects of the spiro in the meantime.
>>6512795
Drink more water and adjust your diet anon.
>>6512856
I already drink a very large amount of water (that amount has increased after being on spiro) and generally eat a lot of food with high-fibre. I was somewhat constipated before spiro and was on the verge of going to the doctor about it, but it wasn't really a problem. Now it's pretty serious.
>>6512867
just go on cypro famalam, its much beteer
I was on spiro 200 for two years. My effect weren't the best but I was body hair free and was in hood mood even though I didn't look the best.
Switched to cypro 50 mg suddenly body hair everywhere, depression, anxiety. I don't go out anymore I became very unpleasant in person... But got bette changes.
Should move to cypro 25 mg and spiro 100 to have all the pluses with less minuses.
>>6512934
You would have all the minus.
But you can lower the cyproterone without adding spiro, to 25mg, even 12.5mg. Blood test to confirm it still works at 3 and 6 months after change.
>>6512933
I know, that's what I'm doing. But I can't switch for a while which is why I was asking for advice for now.
>>6512967
I tried to lower it to JUST 25 cypro. My T sky-rocketed. But I think it would be ok if I pair it with spiro.
>>6513451
looks like it's down; the goobermint would probably have put up one of those obnoxious "domain seized" images if it was them. i haven't ordered from there in a while anyway.
So seriously.
>Injection vs Pill?
I have been taking it sublingually (4mg) for a while now and not getting the results I want and am pretty young.
What is the deal? Can I benefit from getting on injections?
>>6513451
Alldaychemist.org got an email from them saying that they're down for a little bit due to technical difficulties but they'll be back up in 4-5 days
>>6512795
If you are in the US Cypro isn't FDA approved
>>6514869
From what i read injections allow for a more rapid transformation. But thats just the speed of the changes, not sure if there is any other benefit. Injections and sublingual should both theoretically bypass the liver, which reduces risk, so there is that as well
>>6516501
I know; I'm in the UK. My endocrinologist didn't want me to take cypro because of the hepatotoxicity, and I didn't argue, but it is an option.
>>6514869
Pills (oral) decrease IGF-1 and increase SHBG.
Pills (sublingual) spike a ton unless you're taking them 4 times a day.
Injections provide relatively consistent hormone levels.
I would prefer injections>patches to pills any day.
>>6516520
Weekly injections are much easier than talking pills 3 times a day.
Stuff like this makes me kinda wanna hrt. But I won't be able to afford this until I have 20 grand lying around and even then it doesn't look as good on white men
Cuz right now i'm basically the man of steel so I couldn't even bother with hrt
>>6512795
Laxatives will cause your body to be unable to properly absorb spiro, which will cause your T levels to raise dramatically. Just drink lots of water and manage it until you can get an orchi
(Oh, and cypro isn't FDA approved. So assuming that you're in the US, you're screwed there)
>>6516895
It's not going to get any better while you wait (it'll get worse in fact). It'd be pointless to spend years saving up for facial surgery and then be too manly to pass even with it because you waited so long. HRT is relatively cheap.
>>6512795
Anon I suffered through 6 years of being chronically constipated from Spiro. I switched to Bicalutamide a couple months ago and things have improved.
I'm a gay male, and i'm dealing with my brother who is 16 years old who is going to self med himself.
We're doing research and OP was really useful, so let me ask a few questions:
Is his age too late to see big changes? Like, he should be at the last stage of puberty so i don't know if much will change.
Does HRT changes anything in the shoulders/face area? I mean, their sizes can't change but does something changes that makes their more feminine?
What is the effect on body and facial hair? I'm have lots of body hair so he probably suffers from the same.
Thank you all.
>>6519161
>Is his age too late to see big changes
Depends. Does he look like a young boy or already like a man?
>Does HRT changes anything in the shoulders/face area? I
If his shoulders have already widened there is nothing that can be done to fix them but since he's 16 he should have some hip growth for sure.
>What is the effect on body and facial hair?
Minimal if you start >20 otherwise pretty big. Can he grow beard already? If not he's lucky and he won't grow any. If he can already grow beard then the changes will be minimal if any.
> I'm have lots of body hair so he probably suffers from the same.
Oh. Well laser/electrolysis is a thing you know.
Ummm...
So I will be seeing a endocrinologist for a 30 minute confrontation.
What is expected and how does one prepare?
>>6520267
I guess I'll piggyback off of this, kinda related
How many sessions did it take to get a letter from your therapist? And then how long from then until you got a prescription?
>>6520300
2 therapeutic sessions through informed consent clinic, and I dont know when my hormone prescription will be given to me.
>>6519161
>16
-_- At that age you can expect very good results. Though the shoulder bones won't change, you will likely see a decrease in muscle mass which helps make the upper body more female. The face will change drastically from both decrease in muscle (around the jaw ) and fat will be redistributed to make the face more feminine. Also skin changes to become soft and bruise easy like a female. Body hair should slow or stop, or even change into thinner lighter hairs like cis girls have. Also you're bro will grow tits. But most of this comes down to genetics, so look at any female relatives you have for reference. There is a good chance that your bro will end up looking a lot like them.
>>6520300
It real depends on the therapist and the country. But there seems to be a thing here in Australia that you are supposed to have 6 sessions with a therapist before they prescribe hormones. [spoiler] However if you tell the psyc you are self medding, they will usualy give you a prescription or endo referral strait away.[/spoiler]
>>6520267
Expect a load of invasive and humiliating questions about your relation ship with your genitals, sex life, sexuality etc. Also the endo will likely feel your balls a lot and stab a needle in your arm for blood extraction. But its all in good fun :)
>>6516659
>decrease IGF-1 and increase SHBG.
So what does this mean in terms of affects? does SHBG affect feminization?
Can I take female hormones for aesthetic purposes without becoming sterile?
>>6522110
The sterility is only until you come off the meds. You can also always bank sperm if you are worried.
Been drinking three cups of spearmint tea a day for about a month now.
The only noticeable side effects have been moderate weight gain and a little off-and-on hypoactivity.
Insurance doesn't cover blood tests, are sites like walkinlab.com legit? What about home test kits? I want to avoid killing my liver before I can visit an informed consent clinic.
>>6522104
SHGB binds sex hormones making them not bioavailable to your body.
Lower IGF-1 is almost never good but for mtf specifically it plays a major role in breast growth.
>>6522727
If you're on them long enough it will permanently reduce your fertility dramatically, possibly entirely.
>>6523081
You can always try HCG blasts or 0,1mg instant release GNRH if everything else fails but long term damage to testicular tissue from estrogen varies a lot from person to person.
So if I go see an endocrinologist with a note proving that I am a crazy tranny, do I get to ask for specific medications/doses?
>>6522957
You think you're going to get any appreciable effects with spearmint tea? Just order HRT online.
>home test kits
99% sure you're going to need actual lab equipment for that. Maybe something would exist for testing the presence of the hormones you're concerned with but there's no way you'd be able to measure the levels of them precisely.
>>6523095
If your healthcare pays for it always ask for GNRH if mtf.
The rest is up to you, every type of medication has it's up and downsides and that's mostly for you to decide.
Doses should be so you get into a range that's "normal" and that you feel comfortable with. Also note that normal ranges are very relative in regards to your body size and whatnot.
Don't start with too high of a dosage or you will have a chance of long term side effects like contits for mtf or subpar voice development for ftm.
>>6523111
What is GNRH?
>>6523126
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gnrh
>>6523097
Half of the reason I opted for spearmint tea was because of the subtle reported effects. The fat around my waist's redistributed a little and my skin's cleared up completely, but that's about it. Hepatotoxicity's a big concern because of the unavailability of professional lab testing and tea seemed like the least risky option.
Too much of a wuss to jump into estrogen right away, but I've almost pulled the trigger on spiro a few times. The bone density issue is pretty negligible because hopefully I'll be visiting a clinic within the next couple of years.
Reading up on oral tests a little, it's pretty clear they won't be sufficient. Has anybody had any luck with online/mail-in testing?
>>6523181
Online labs work well and are reasonably priced.
>>6523197
Noted, thanks. Any experiences or recommended clinics?
>>6523111
Are you for real? Cone tits huh?
Is progesterone worth it? I've read conflicting info about it. Some say that it helps with breast development and fat redistribution while others say its benefits as far as feminization goes are negligible and in only increases the risk of blood clots and cancer.
>>6523523
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_development#Biochemistry
Can depo provera be used instead of estrogen and spiro?
If I got an orchiectomy would I still need to take finastride and/or spiro to prevent a receding hairline?
>>6523623
>tfw have the money for an orchi but can't bring myself to admit it to my parents, since I'd need someone to drive me home after surgery
>>6523675
You have money for the operation but not a taxi home after?
Couple of questions:
Does anyone have experience with assetchemist.co.uk? I'm not entirely sure how I'm supposed to bullshit their prescription system, I know people have used it without a pre-existing prescription but idk the exact method.
Estradiol; hemihydrate or valerate for tabs?
Usual bicalutamide dose is 50mg/day?
>>6523617
Depo provera can be used instead of spironolactone, not estradiol.
>>6524436
What dosage would I take?
>>6512795
Spiro did this to me as well. I take 3-4 metamucil capsules twice daily and it usually fixes it.
>>6524403
>hemihydrate or valerate
Better or (much) cheaper, is the usual comparison, and the one I'll make based on my own experience.
>>6523111
Protip: cone tits even out and become just larger tits, with enough time. I had conetits hardcore a couple years ago, and now they're so much more rounded out and normal looking.
>>6524660
In my experience valerate was much more effective than hemihydrate. I think it varies from person to person.
>>6516659
>>6514869
>>6516520
Injection taker here.
I switched from hemihydrate sublingual pills to injections at about 6 months in and had a massive spike in feminization and breast growth. Kept to it for a couple years, and then I started taking some oral estradiol valerate instead to give my injection sites a rest - only to have breast growth start back up again.
IMO, the best method is to switch between methods. Stick with one for a while, maybe even 1-2 years, then switch it to another. I've had boosts every time I made a switch so far.
>>6525473
Where do you get your needles from?
>>6524503
Since you say depo provera, you are talking about injections. You take a 1ml injection of 150mg/ml every three months.
>>6525473
>>6516520
>>6514869
I take injections (10mg/1ml once a week in my thighs), and I feel like they are better than pills. I started with injections because they are cheaper and decided to switch to pills for a few months (4mg/day sublingual) and I felt like my progress completely stagnated.
>>6525724
I also take injections and I get my needles from calvetsupply. Basically any online veterinary supply place will have them.
Just make sure they're sterile and the right length/gauge. I know it seems sketchy buying from a veterinary store but they're the same needles that humans use, just sold for a different purpose.
I use 25 gauge needles which is basically the thinnest you can use for IM injections (higher gauge means thinner). The upside is that its less intimidating and less painful, but its slower to draw and you have to push harder/it takes longer to inject because estrogen depots are a thick oil.
Also you need sterile alcohol whipes and you can buy them from amazon.
>>6525802
>>6525724
You don't even need to go to a vet supplier. Medical suppliers work fine. Depending on where you live though, the law might prevent you from buying them without a prescription.
So what you will want, unless you are overweight, is 23g 1" 3cc needle+syringe combo.
I will personally vouch for this site, because I have ordered from them myself.
http://www.atlanticmedsupply.com/needles-syringes/bd-3cc-syringe-w/needle-23g-x-1/
Had pretty fast shipping too, which was amazing seeing as I live in Alaska. Another supplier I've tried ended up taking ages to ship it out, charged me more for shipping than they paid for it, and my "one day shipping" that I was forced to take ended up taking a week from being sent out to arriving to me.
>>6525856
I wonder what will happen if I order while being in Illinois, a state where law restricts syringe sales to pharmacies and only 20 may be in one's possession.
>(a) Except as provided in subsection (b), no person, not being a ...(list of professions)... shall have in his possession a hypodermic syringe, hypodermic needle, or any instrument adapted for the use of controlled substances or cannabis by subcutaneous injection.
>(b) A person who is at least 18 years of age may purchase from a pharmacy and have in his or her possession up to 20 hypodermic syringes or needles.
>>6525947
They probably have something about it on their site, go look through their faq or main page.
>>6519272
>>6522004
His facial hair and chest are the biggest problems. He can grow beard but it's not complete yet. I guess laser will be necessary after all.
I was convincing him to take a pic. He's in the pic.
>I feel guilty because he kind of came out to me some time ago, as he said he was confused about wich path to take in life and that he was very sad. I made him come with me to the Gym because at least he would exercise. But i don't think he want any muscle mass if he got any.
>>6526163
How old was your sibling the first time?
>>6525856
Cool, I didn't know about that site. I don't know what my state laws are about needles though.
Also afik you pretty much are supposed to use a 1.5" needle for IM thigh injections regardless of your weight. I was extremely skinny, like underweight, when I started and even then I don't think the needle entered my muscle until like an inch in, and IM thigh injections are supposed to be done deep into the muscle.
I guess it doesn't really matter much though because estrogen depots can technically be injected subcutaneously too.
>>6526218
It really depends on the individual body. I have maybe half an inch of material before I hit the muscle and if I go any deeper than 1 inch (I used to use 1.5 inch) I have a much higher chance of hitting nerves and other painful shit. Some people do IM thigh injections with a 5/8 inch needle. It really just depends on the individual's body.
>>6526173
The first time he said something like this? He had just turned 15yo and I heard him crying during the dawn, in his room. We had a long talk but i was drunk as fuck.
>>6526163
I think "he" has rather a solid start
He will do fine, family.
>>6522110
>>6522727
>>6523081
>>6523086
This gives me a lot of hope. I would really like to be more feminine but I don't actually want to give up my genitals. Quick question:
Do I have broad shoulders? People have told me that before and I'm a little self-conscious about it. I'd have my shirt off, but since I had to take the picture sitting down, I didn't want to reveal what a disaster my body is in such an unflattering position.
>>6526534
Dude you'll be fine pop the fuckin' skittles.
>>6526534
idk if its the black shirt slimming it down but it looks fine
I'm 5'9", what can I do to stop growing taller?
I'm on an androgen receptor antagonist.
>tfw 25 and missed my chance to actually pass
Should I start HRT anyway and just continue living as a man? I'll be damned if I turn myself into a living, breathing caricature.
Pic is not me, by the by. I wish it were, though.
>>6526534
i think your shoulders are fine
maybe if you worked on your body during transition you would be a beautiful passable cd/trap with that chin i think
>>6527197
I'm a femboy who started hormones at 25 and I get confused for a girl far more than I would like. It really varies from person to person though. You can always try out the femboy life. Just pop the hormones and go about life as usual, as if nothing is different. You'll feel better about yourself at the least.
You might become androgynous as fuck but you won't become a caricature unless you make yourself look like one.
>>6527208
Androgyny doesn't sound so bad. I was pretty much that when I was a teenager. It'd be like rewinding the clock, except this time I can drink legally.
Fuck man, I don't know. I keep hovering over that order button but some stupid part of my id is like nah nigga, back the hell up.
Does anyone here know anything about how if Human Growth Hormone or Insulin Growth Factor might be used with hrt to make boobs bigger?
>>6527197
tfw 24.75 years old and going to start self meding at the end of this month.
Think of it this way...if you don't do it now you will only break down later and be even worse off. You can't fight this, just start hormones already. Don't go girl mode unless you want to, its that simple. I know i plan on wearing hoodies and track pants forever, unless i turn out ok looking, then i might wear girls clothes out side.
Hons are only caricature because they try to be more fem than their bodies clearly are.If they wore normal gender neutral clothes and didn't act like hysterical Lucy freaks, no one would even notice them as different.
>>6527222
Not that anon, but yeah, I was a wreck when I first broke down and ordered them. It's quite the mental barrier to get over. It's admitting to yourself that what you have is real, and that it's worth disturbing the normality of your life for.
It's real, unfortunately.
>>6527222
>Fuck man, I don't know. I keep hovering over that order button but some stupid part of my id is like nah nigga, back the hell up.
I had the same shit going on man.
If you're feeling uncomfortable in your skin this will really help you. It won't force your life to change as harshly as you think it might. Any change to your life will come slowly. If you wind up hitting the androgynous zone or passing then it'll probably change a good deal, but it'll be changing for the better. If you don't even hit the androgynous zone, then you'll at least feel better about being less masculine than previously and not getting any worse.
Leading a normal life has lead you to this point, where you're considering taking this shit to get rid of the shit feels. Continuing on with that normal life will only be continuing and worsening those shit feels. Some of them might never go away but things won't be as bad as they were before you started.
Like that other poster said, I was a wreck too. I'm not mtf but my body was still making me feel really shitty. It is a major thing to commit to, but it's all there is available for people like us to fix ourselves such that we can live without feeling like shit constantly and loathing our bodies. It's what it takes to feel comfortable, or more comfortable, in your skin.
It might suck for you if you never wind up passing but being a rather feminized guy is far better than doing nothing.
>>6526163
looks like me except i have bigger tits and a more defined waist
>>6510975
Hey /hrtg/,
Confirmed tranny thinking of beginning HRT soon, but I'm curious about mental/emotional effects. Pretty aware of the physical ones, but I'm curious about how soon HRT would effect my mood/emotions, and whether the way in which it does changes, or if the change is pretty consistent once it's happened. Please inform me on the topic, thanks!
>>6527652
Mental effects vary from person to person. The most common ones and the ones that I've experienced are the dramatic drop in sex drive, greatly reduced general anxiety (not social anxiety), a general calmness bordering on lethargy, and for me personally, my social ineptitude has been dissolving slowly but surely, I used to wonder if I was autistic, but I feel almost neurotypical now.
Overall I'd r8 8/8
>>6527689
How quick did they hit you? I'm curious mostly about the time scale. I learned a lot about being socially decent, losing anxiety, and handling myself pretty well in my dude years, and while it's totally variable what the effects will be on me, I'm curious how quickly I'll know what HRT feels like for me.
my fucking blood test just came back and my estrogen is still 140pmol/L (that's like 40pg/mL)
my doctor is refusing to up my dosages, and keeps saying it's "in a female range".
how do i fucking kill this woman
>>6527709
self med with a higher dosage :^)
>>6527742
i'm pretty sure importing hormones is illegal in our country.
shit fucking sucks. i'm moving to america once i'm out of uni.
>>6527705
The mental effects happened pretty quickly. There's a distinct difference between being on only AAs and AAs + Estrogen. For the first month on just the AAs I was really lethargic but also weirdly clear-headed. I wasn't on just AAs for that long but I'd probably be unable to function for more than a few months.
When starting estrogen, after a few weeks I started noticing the increase in my emotional volatility, I had higher highs and lower lows and just generally more emotions going on than I could remember having in a long time, but the mood swings started settling down after about 4-5 months, reaching their peak around month 3.
At about a couple months into E I noticed that although I had more energy then on AAs alone, it was still not as much as I used to have, and I noticed that I needed to focus more than I used to accomplish the same amount. I was less distracted, but I needed more "mental stamina" I guess you could say. Hard to describe, and not significant in the long run. I also can't stay up all night and the next day like I used to, but then I really shouldn't be doing that anyway. I started getting a bit of the energy back around month 9 I think, but that could be attributable to life changes.
The lowered sex drive hit pretty fast as well, it sort of tapered off on the AAs, and continued downward with E. It hit its lowest point around the 4 month mark, I basically just didn't do or think about anything sexual for a while. It's controllable though, if you choose to focus your attention on it. That's the neat thing about what I assume to be a woman's sexuality, you control it. After a year or so I got a boyfriend and it really picked up again.
The anxiety is still lowering even now, it seems to be a continual and quite frankly amazing phenomenon. I, like you, thought I was pretty good at being calm and dealing with stress, but really every time I think I have no anxiety or stress anymore it seems like it just gets lower.
>>6527752
Which country is that? Norway?
>>6527764
Fuck, lol, I misread your first post as "increased anxiety" and that made me nervous. Glad to hear that things are working out well for you! I think that in my own case, I actually have a great deal of anxiety, I've just managed to hide it away or utilize it rather than allow it to cripple me. Getting it to actually go away for real though sounds like bliss.
>>6527652
In my experience:
The very first thing you'll notice is an increased tendency to get irritated, aggravated, etc. This will pass pretty quickly, but it will be the first things telling you that you're not taking placebos. This should take place within perhaps the first week or two, and it passes pretty quickly.
This will pass and then give way to an initial emotional rollercoaster. It's been years since I went through this so maybe I have the timetable wrong, but maybe like 2 weeks to 1 month to expect this to begin to start. You will experience quick changes in your emotional state. You'll go from feeling the happiest you've felt in years to being super sad, or some other negative emotion, or whatever. For me my moods were very positive in general, but you will notice that your mood will switch almost as fast as you can snap your fingers, regardless which emotional state you are switching to. Emotions in general will be felt more intensely and with a different flavor/flavors to them, if that makes sense (it probably will if it doesn't).
This will keep on for a while and slowly stabilize as your body adjusts to the meds. The most intense part will last maybe a few weeks or a month or so, and it'll very slowly change, while you also (hopefully) adapt to it and learn how to properly handle your altered emotions. After 6 months into hormones you should be a good deal stabilized, but IMO from my observations of myself and others, true stability doesn't really come until the year mark and after. Particularly when you stop keeping track of how many months its been since starting hormones. Then you're really getting settled into yourself. When I switched from spiro to cypro, I had another wave of volatility and change, it has definitely influenced the way I feel emotions and also my emotional needs and desires, even though I was over 2 years in when I made the switch.
You'll be slowly settling into a new normal. You will probably also change some as a person.
>>6527709
It's in a menopausal female range. That is to say, a male range. She's useless...
>>6527709
If you're the scheming type, don't take the med the day before the blood test (or take less), this makes your level lower, she gives more E, you then take as usual.
what is a good dose to start with for estradiol valerate (IM)?
I am really worried about growing tits in a rush, because I live with my bigot parents, who showed no sympathy for my situation. Currently not able to access legitimate methods of obtaining hormones.
idk, I just want wide hips before my pelvic bone fuses, and to prevent further gain in height
>>6527964
10mg/weekly is a very common dose, you can start at something like 2,5mg if you want and slowly up it.
Personally I would inject twice weekly if I was using IM valerate because the half life is something like 7-9 days.
>>6527964
Don't do injections if you want slow changes. Go for oral estrofem or prognova. i would say start at 2mg daily and if you want up to 4mg after a month. Also don't just take estradoil, you need anti androgens as well to stop any muscularization. If you can get cypro start at 25mg daily, or go up to 50mg if you need
>>6527982
Eww, twice weekly? Not that anon, but typically every other week is common, and there's nothing wrong with weekly. I can't stand needles and I was barely able to get myself to do weekly.
I know consistent levels are a good thing but I'm pretty sure that's overkill.
>>6527982
>>6528004
>>6527964
I use 10mg/weekly estradiol valerate injections, and I definitely am feeling my levels being low at the end of the week. It's going to vary person to person, but I don't think that most people would feel okay with just 10mg over two weeks. They may feel like shit the entire 2nd week, or maybe just the tail end of it, but there will be that low-sex-hormone feeling.
>>6527964
If you're worried about tits coming on too fast, oral estradiol valerate or sublingual estradiol hemihydrate would be a better choice. My breast growth boomed really fast on injections. That said, I know a 16 year old on the same exact regimen, who isn't getting much even 7 months in. Do you have small breasted women in your family?
I had very large breasted women in my family and now after years of hormones I'm up to 36C and stable at that size for a while.
Whatever tits you get, you should be able to hide fairly easily. Also, boys sometimes just get boobs, blame it on gynecomastia.
I understand if you'd want to stick with injections over other forms though, particularly because they're very effective and also extremely cheap - I think like $1.43 a week for me or something like that.
Do the injections if you want, just do them 10mg/week. If you go lower dose or longer wait between shots, you might get a lot of shitty low/no estrogen feels. Deal with whatever boobs happen. You'll have months before it could even become an issue, and odds are you'll have an easy time hiding what does develop.
>>6528004
steroidgraph.com only has Isocaproate which has a slightly longer halflife than valerate (9 days vs 7,5 days) but you get the gist of it.
>>6528065
What's with the spikes? Sleep?
So I've been taking oral estradiol valerate for over a year and have decided to swap to IM because it's cheaper and a small part of me is praying for faster changes. Here's what I've ordered so far, let me know if I've forgotten anything Pls.
23G 1.25" 2cc syringes
Sterile gloves
Sterilising wipes
Sharps bin
10mg/ml 1cc ampules of estradiol valerate
I'm currently taking 6my oral and was planning 10mg per week IM. Any issues?
Also thigh or upper buttock?
>>6528091
Spikes are injection dates.
>>6528130
Band-aids.
No issues on your dose. Start your first injection where you would have been taking your next pill.
Go for thigh unless you have someone else who you trust to be able to do it properly for you. If you can get someone else to do it properly for you, go with dorsogluteal injection site. I do this for my gf, and inject myself in my thigh. Depending on the thickness of your thigh muscles and thigh fat you may find 1.25" needles to be a little too long, but if that's the case then you'll feel the right stopping point.
It's too much of a pain to try properly injecting yourself in other suitable locations, IMO. Just go with the thigh, it's typically painless and very, very easy access. Also extremely easy to find and identify the injection site. You'll want to be able to see your syringe well, so that you can tell whether or not you're pulling up blood when you aspirate it prior to injection.
>>6528163
What will the stopping point feel like? I've never self injected anything before. Thanks for your response BTW.
>>6528184
>What will the stopping point feel like?
Well for one you don't really want to reach it, because it will feel like pain. Kind of a sharp, pinching pain, that might also make your leg muscles twitch, because you've gotten too close to the nerve. Not a big deal though, with proper placement it shouldn't be an issue. With experience you will just begin to feel the right depth for you, if 1.25 inches is too long. It'd be best to get new syringes though, if that happens. Better to downsize than not stick the whole thing in, granted I've gone like a year only sticking in about an inch of 1.5 inch needles in the past.
>>6527998
Yeah, I'm on 100mg Bicalutamide
>>6528050
My sister does have large breasts.
It sounds like injections might be more effective for my hips though.
Maybe I can slow breast growth down with a more calorie restrictive diet, but double down on the calcium, etc.
>>6528197
Yeah my legs are skinny as. I've probably not got more than half an inch of meat there to begin with. I'll take it slow and learn. Thanks for all the advice anon.
>>6528228
>Not wanting an infected hole in my leg
>overboard
Good luck with your heroin addict looking legs m8.
>>6528236
If you properly wash your hands, you don't have to worry about gloves.
Good luck with those broken glass deposits in your legs.
>>6528271
You seriously believe that the medical world would use ampules if glass shards small enough to be sucked into a syringe sized for IM or IV injections were a thing? Dude, think about it.
>>6527490
Thanks, man. I've spent so long thinking that there was no point in pursuing any kind of transition if there was no chance of passing. Ironically, I would have, if I'd started at 18 like I'd planned to. That's what I get for waiting.
But they've been ordered now. I'm skipping Spiro entirely and going straight for Bical; it might be more expensive - a lot more - but hell, it's talked up so much that it must be worth it. Besides, I ain't no poorfag.
I'll see y'all in like a year when I'm disgusting. Should be fun.
Pic to confirm identity.
>>6528291
This study only went up to 21G, but they did find glass in syringes with those needles. IM needles go from 19-25 gauge.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15488040
>>6528360
I stand corrected sir. However I'm less worried about a 1/3 chance of a single microscopic glass shard sitting in my leg than I am about possible infections and septicemia but w/e
>>6528228
>21g
That seems a little thick, particularly if one is injecting in their thigh. Not to mention, it only assists drawing the liquid and makes injecting more difficult not only because of higher potential for pain, but also because you don't want to be injecting the liquid quickly. With a thinner gauge needle, the needle helps you maintain a good pace. On top of this a thinner hole means less chance of injection liquid coming back out of the muscle. That said you'd probably be fine.
>>6528236
While I agree with you that it isn't overboard, I've been injecting 2.5 years without ever using sterile gloves. I do wash my hands very well before doing it though.
>>6528356
Nice, I'm glad I could help nudge you over the edge. I'm sure you'll enjoy yourself and the changes you get. Good luck.
Has anyone here ordered depo provera from inhouse pharmacy? Does it come with an injection syringe?
And if not, where can I buy one? Sorry for the dumb question
>>6528490
Another poster with a side question: how good is depo prover as an antiandrogen? Or is it only used as a progesterone in trannies?
>>6528384
Then why the sterile gloves if you're not worried about infection?
>>6528391
What gauge needles do you use then? I was also considering 23G but like you said, I thought I would be fine with 21.
Also, I would consider glove use reasonable only when it's another person injecting it for you, i.e. someone you can't trust to wash their hands properly.
>>6528419
I'm not worried about the amount of glass or the risk it carries over a few years. I'm concerned over decades of injections.
>>6528490
It comes with the needle.
>>6528513
According to Wikipedia, cyproterone acetate has a 3 times greater affinity for the, progesterone receptor I think it was, than medroxyprogesterone acetate. Which is still more than bioidentical progesterone's affinity. They're also in the same class of drugs. So I think they work very similarly besides taking one as a tablet and the other as an injection. And it is used as an anti-androgen. Cis women complain about weight gain on it though as you can see on YouTube.
>>6528585
I use 23g 1" needles.
>>6528585
Ah I see. I don't think I'll be self medding and having to use these vials forever though. Besides I could just start buying filtration needles for drawing the liquid. My injection sites are doing excellently though. Zero signs that I'm having troubles from injected glass.
>>6528622
>>6528585
>>6528360
>>6528419
You DO NOT need gloves. You should wash your hands, but its only precautionary. If you follow sterile procedure correctly it wouldn't matter if your hands were dirty because they should never ever touch anything that will go into your leg or that will touch anything else that will go into your leg.
Sterile procedure is about avoiding contact of sterile surfaces (the stuff that makes contact with an open wound) with unsterile surfaces (anything that wasn't packaged in a sterile container or that has come in contact with another unsterile surface). If a surface that is supposed to be sterile becomes unsterile you have to throw out that entire needle/medicine and start over.
Gloves aren't going to really make any difference at all if you do it right. You are probably going to unavoidable touch an unsterile surface with the gloves at some point and then they won't be sterile anymore. For self-injection they basically just are just like washing your hands.
For doctors though, gloves give the extra benefit of protecting them from the patient's blood which is probably more useful than for sterility of the injection. It also very slightly protects against accidentally pricking yourself when recapping which might just be a minor cut on the finger for you, but for a doctor it could mean getting a blood-borne disease
If I am using depo provera as an anti androgen, is the dosage still one 150ml injection every 3 months?
How do you get a hold of spire in a country where you can't legally import meds? (*cough* netherlands)
>>6529822
>150ml injection
I sure hope you mean 150mg :D
Also I do not know the answer to your question but would love to know the dosage as well, and would also love to hear from anyone who has used depo provera themselves as their sole antiandrogen, especially if they can describe how it stacks up to other AA's.
>>6530858
QHI.co.uk ships to EU in discreet packaging, just don't order too much at a time
Hey I've heard from ppl on forums that progesterone gives you acne. Hrt has only reduced acne for me so far (and fairly significantly). I'm just concerned that if I start using progesterone I'll get break outs again. It would be very helpful if someone could clarify. Anecdotal and statistical evidence would be greatly appreciated, preferably statistical; unfortunately, I couldn't find any myself.
>>6530858
>spire
I think you want Cypro
>>6530858
>can smoke weed legally
>can't import female hormones
backwards country
>>6527198
>compliment
I'm awfully short (5'3") and young looking (I get mistaken for a high school student all the time when I'm actually a college graduate), so I've got that going for me. However, my body is pretty wide. I'm probably skinny fat, but I'm certainly not a lithe femboy.
I'm kind of interested in starting this process since I keep coming back to it every few months as a possible avenue and have been for a few years now. A lot of these drugs seemed to be aimed at actually making transitions, but what should I be looking at taking for a drug regimen if making a full transition isn't in my interest?
>>6534001
It's not a good idea to half-bake HRT. If you lower your androgen levels for extended periods of time you will suffer the effects of bone density loss leading to possible osteoporosis.
If you don't mind that though, it depends entirely on how long you want to keep this up. Without androgens for over a year there's a good likelihood of infertility and the possibility of erectile dysfunction if you don't use it. If you plan on using it for multiple years, you run the risk of essentially chemically castrating yourself, and your testicles may be entirely or partially unable to produce testosterone in the future among other issues. Basically, if you want to take anti-androgens long term you should seriously consider an orchiectomy, i.e. getting your ball removed.
Your more expensive long-term solution is to take anti-androgens with a SERM. The SERM will take the place of estrogen, but only selectively, allowing you to breast growth, erectile dysfunction, and infertility, while getting the other benefits of estrogen. SERMs are still experimental though, and there isn't much consensus about using it to accomplish feminization in non transitioning males or other non-binary transitions.
The most common meds I've seen used for this purpose are Bicalutamide as an AA, and either Raloxifene or Tamoxifen as a SERM.
>>6534103
>If you lower your androgen levels for extended periods of time you will suffer the effects of bone density loss leading to possible osteoporosis.
This tends to take place in the first 2.5-5 years, for the bulk of the loss, after that it is more stable. Proper diet (getting the right amounts of vitamin D and calcium) and load bearing exercise will help minimize bone loss.
Back in the day eunuchs could live even into their 80's, possibly beyond, with no modern medicine to help them out. They didn't even know they were losing bone density.
Today there are still people who go huge periods of time with no sex hormones. I know one guy who has gone over 20 years without, and he's pretty healthy, and doing pretty well, even in his 60's.
>>6534001
You could go with SERMS like the other poster said. If you can live with boobs though I would advise you just go with good old safe and well-known estrogen. If the females in your family tend to have small tits, odds are you won't develop much of anything, and either way you'll have less than the females in your family. My family is full of huge titted girls and I wound up growing a lot, so if your family is similar you may experience something along those lines. Really depends on genetics.
Another thing you can do is go with low dose estrogen or cycle it.
>>6534103
>>6534158
All I really want is a more feminine body (particularly waist and hips) and face without sacrificing reproductive function. I don't really know my dad's side that well, but from what I can recall, I think large breasts were not a common feature, but that's all fine.
How does somebody like Bailey Jay get such feminine features while still maintaining function?
>>6534290
Cycling on and off hormones from what I've read.
>>6534290
you won't get feminine hips from hormones my man
sorry to pop your naivety cherry
>>6534323
They will have fat go to them even with no bone changes. If they're young enough they might be lucky and get minor changes in hip bone
>>6534362
Hips full seal at ~23, no changes to bone whatsoever beyond that.
At 19, only minimal rotation
At 16, widening and a bit of rotation are possible
At 13 or younger, you're golden.
>>6534382
>rotation
wat
>>6534453
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone_replacement_therapy_(male-to-female)#Bone_changes
It says full ossification at 25, but that's a lie, I started at 23 and no change whatsoever to hip bones, I've measured.
>>6534480
Not everyone is the same as you though. Some people will have it happen later, some earlier, some right around when you did. It'll vary from person to person.
I started at 25 so have had nothing in that department kek. But I'm not a tranny so I'm cool with that.
>>6534480
ossification depends really when you started puberty
>>6524403
>assetchemist.co.uk
people have bypassed prescription here? if so I'd shit myself, they ship international and have cheap as fuck meds
this might be a dumb question but my dr just started me on 50mg cypro and I know hair loss runs in my family but am I safe as long as my t levels remain low?
>>6537134
Yes, with low T you will have bugger all dht.
>>6537217
because it's a million times more expensive?
>>6537217
Or ihp or qhi they're all good.
>>6528384
I found a very new study, and it seems you'll be injecting glass even with a filter. Although this one's about IV.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4703599
The difference between the amount of glass collected with a filtered 23G needle and an unfiltered 23G needle is only 200 something, and they both still number in the several thousands. The relevance of glass in IV administration is that the glass can migrate to organs of the body like lungs. I don't know how possible that is for IM. I also read a thread where people were discussing needles and the prospect of IV injecting glass reminded them of a coworker who worked as a painter for several years. The risks weren't known about certain silica particles being able to pass through masks at the time, so some got into his lungs. He later found about the effects it had on his lungs after an examination where he failed the breathing portion. Apparently they would be lucky to not be on an oxygen tank in 10 years.
>>6528607
You can actually reach low enough into the ampule with 1" without having to fuck with it like tilting it? Also there isn't any left over in the vial after you pull out 1 ml is there? I don't want to dump estrogen into the water supply. ;_; Though I guess if some were left over, I could just burn it because it's suspended in oil.
>>6537217
Are they? I was going to buy from them but then I read reviews online of attempted fraud on people's cards and spam calls from Indians with thick accents.
>>6537218
Progynon depot injections are actually about half the price on ADC than IHP and UnitedPharmacies. So it depends on what you want.
>>6527277
Well done, this is correct & I don't see it posted enough.
>>6538753
i don't do injections
bicalutamide is like 6x cheaper there, which is why i would be so happy if it worked oout
>>6538753
>You can actually reach low enough into the ampule with 1" without having to fuck with it like tilting it?
Yep. Break it at the neck instead of the red line. May take practice. You'll crush vials now and then until you really get it down, that'd happen wherever you were to break it open though. What's wrong with tilting it? I usually do so right at the end to suck up the last bits of oil while decreasing my chances of dulling the needle. I do the same thing with the 1.5 inch needles that I use on my GF by the way.
Another point - you can always get a box of longer filler needles. Heck, make them filter needles while you're at it, may as well, if you're going to go through the trouble. This way you both filter out any microscopic glass shards and also don't dull the injection needle on accident by touching it to the glass.
>Also there isn't any left over in the vial after you pull out 1 ml is there?
Virtually none left in there. If I didn't throw away my vials immediately then I'd show you a pic. Shit looks empty but if you were to break it and rub the inside of the glass you'd feel oil residue. ergo, virtually none.
>I don't want to dump estrogen into the water supply.
Women on birth control are doing a so much of this shit that you really shouldn't worry about your insanely small amount of estrogen filled oil left over. Just throw them in the trash. So little estrogen is left in the vial it's basically nothing.
>>6510975
Trying to get info on what to do, I'm pre-HRT, if I know a endocrinologist, do I still need to go to a general physician to get a recommendation, or can I just make an apt. with the endo?
>>6540637
>Women on birth control are doing a so much of this shit that you really shouldn't worry about your insanely small amount of estrogen filled oil left over. Just throw them in the trash. So little estrogen is left in the vial it's basically nothing.
You're an awful person. kys.
>>6541015
You are too stupid to live. I don't care if you kill yourself but please don't reproduce. Thank you.
>>6540772
Usually the endo won't treat you unless you have a referral from a psychiatrist first. If you can't go to a gender clinic, find a gp to work with you, they will give you the referal to a psyc, and then the psyc refers you to an endo.
But this can all take months of fucking around., and cost a shit load of money depending on where you live. So for me i decided the best option was to self med while working with a gp to give me check ups and blood tests, until i finally get to see an endo and can go legit. But even then i am dubious about trusting an endo, a bad endo can realy fuck over. So make sure you do your research and don't bput blind faith in your doctors
>>6510975
Anyone take dutasteride with hrt?
I am seeing a doctor tomorrow and want to see if i can get prescribed a dht killer to help with hair loss. I plan on starting Cypro and estradoil in a month and wonder if i should take dutas aswell.
Has anyone used Vaniqa/eflora cream to help against facial hair? If so, how much does it really cost? I think the tubes are like $30. But how far does really go?
Any estimate on how much it costs per month?
What is the least harmful Anti-Androgen and Estrogen medication on the liver?
can you restart hip growth using HGH?
>>6546933
Probably a gnrh inhibitor would be the best anti androgen to use, but they are too expensive, so use Cyproterone. Also estrogen patches or injections would be less harmful on the liver, then there is also sublingual intake.
>>6547029
>HGH
So you just go ahead and use Human Growth Hormone for hip growth.... probably not a good idea.
>>6547159
I'm pretty sure that anon said they had hepatitis in another thread. For people without liver disease 25 and 50 mg of cyproterone acetate doesn't seem high-risk, but for people with already-struggling livers, we don't know. I agree on the estrogen though.
>>6547029
no you will probably just cause acromegaly
>>6547183
what a cruel life this is
>>6547312
im sorry anon :(
>>6547173
People with already fucked up livers often get hit even harder by cyproterone. Not in a good way so much. The most active and present metabolite of CPA is 15beta-hydroxycyproterone acetate. Same antiandrogen activity as CPA, but only 10% of the progestogenic activity. Also, in circulation it's at double the concentration of CPA in circulation. This means among other things such as requiring a lower dose, a liver damaged person would also experience even more progestogenic effects. Either way a liver damaged person should just use something else.
How long can you be on HRT without any permanent effects? Does it vary by drugs used / individuals?
>>6547493
Yes, it varies. Bicalutamide will allow you to remain fertile for example. Also depends on the person. I've encountered a few trannies who knocked someone up after 2 years hormones, just from a couple weeks of no spiro. Others are sterile in 6 months.
I'm currently prescribed estrogen patches, which I picked out of the doctor's recommendation to either use patches, gel or injection. As I'm coming home from my vacation injections are a viable option for me now, should I ask to switch?
>>6547183
Factually wrong, acromegaly is cause by high and steady hgh levels, if you have pulsated release literally nothing will happen unless you abuse 20iu/day for years
>>6547388
Spironolactone then I guess?
What other options are there and how would it be obtained?
And as for patches, creams, and injections, where could we get those online?
>>6546933
I responded to your other thread, so check that, but don't take cypro. It's the worst offender for liver damage in mtf therapy.
This webpage has a list of different anti-androgens at the bottom:
http://prostatecancer.ca/Prostate-Cancer/Treatment/Drugs-to-Treat-Prostate-Cancer/Hormonal-Therapy-Drugs/Cyproterone-Acetate-(Androcur®)
Does any fo you use Progynon Depot for injections? How do you break this ampule properly? The neck is just too thick and it shatters no matter what technique I use.
>>6548277
Aren't you supposed to snap it at the red bit?
>>6548301
Are you? According to every tutorial I've read and tutorial video I've seen you're supposed to break the neck.
>>6548277
Well basically, file around the red ring with a triangular rasp. Pic related. In emergency or if you can't find a rasp like that, a saw blade or larger file can work but it just takes more time and patience. Always sterilize everything beforehand.
Breaking vials takes a lot of practice regardless. Eventually your hands will get so practiced and good at it that no filing will be necessary and you will snap that neck like it's nothing, with precisely the right amount of pressure. You -will- destroy vials on accident. Always have a barrier between you and the vial (a sterile one) so that you don't stab your fingers with glass shards. I recommend the inside of the wrapper of the alcohol pad you just used to wipe it clean after filing around the red ring. Leave a tiny portion unfiled, maybe a millimeter or two. this helps prevent it from breaking off prematurely from the tiniest touch. If you file through the glass all the way, throw away the vial.
You may notice this trend eventually: if you don't file around the red ring, it shatters in your hands, but if you do file around the red ring, it doesn't even break at the red ring but easily snaps off at the neck with very little pressure. I imagine this is from the stress exerted on the glass during the filing process. Almost every vial started doing this for me eventually.
A triangular rasp should be available from any hardware store for little money, and it'll last you a while before it needs to be replaced due to getting dull.
>>6548316
According to every tutorial I saw (which was like over 2 years ago) they said to use a file on the red ring like I describe above in >>6548481
There are other ways. You can pull the plunger out of a syringe and put it over the head down to the neck, and then snap it off like that. that might get messy though potentially. I've never tried it, filiing worked well enough.
>>6548481
Could you provide me with a video? I have no idea how to use this thing.
>>6548833
The file? You move it back and forth until it takes the red ring away and wears into the glass. As you file, very very slowly turn the vial in your fingers as you move the file back and forth. You will find the right pace. File should be parallel to the line. You'll figure out the right amount of filing too.
It's something that only is mastered through practice. Might be able to find a video for you later but either way, you could watch a million videos and you will still need the practice. At least estrogen vials are cheap.
>>6552402
Just ask again in the new thread ...
>>6551953
>>6552415
Remember to 下げる
>>6552415
why is there a new thread? this one isn't even at 200 posts..
>>6552431
It was practically dead until someone bumped it at the last second...
>>6552452
....so you bump this one, not make a new one you idiot. why do you think people make threads when they do? because the threads hit the bump limit, meaning you can't bump them anymore and they will die regardless
>>6552463
Maybe it was actually a realy clever thing to do at the time, considering the time zone difference. No one expected a Brit to come along an screw things up by re-bumping their question during their lunch time
So I'm pretty sure I just accidentally my IM estradiol valerate injection subcutaneously. Been a while since I did this, maybe never done it, I dunno.
Should just mean a high peak and then low trough due to faster absorption right? So I'm in for a shitty 2nd half or the week right?
I'm always afraid somebody I know will recognize me if I post picture of myself on here. I was this guy previously: >>6526534
I know for a fact I look really young and baby-faced since I get told that all the time by my peers. But I wanted some opinions onto whether or not I would be a convincing girl given this is my current looks without long hair, make-up, or any kind of hormonal treatment.
>>6555752
Totally!
>>6555752
Laser the moustache shadow and you should have no trouble passing in a few months on hormones.
>>6555919
>a few months
I'd say give it at least 6-8 for safety's sake. It won't even be done doing shit until much later. At 3 months there'd be too much muscle and fat changes that haven't happened yet, maybe face would be fine but take the clothes off and the issues arise. On top of this their hair won't be that much longer in 3 months, and hair really can help quite a lot. I'd advise going for a femboy status aesthetic until the hair gets long enough and everything else falls into place, but it's your call.
