Why is it that FTM's are typically extremely misandrist, and that MTF's are usually extremely misogynyst?
>>6498623
With me and my ftm boyfriend it's literally the opposite of that. I get pissy when people say misogynistic shit which he says a lot of, and I say some pretty shit things about guys too desu
Probably depends entirely on how you internalize gender stuff and how much you see yourself as [insert gender here]
because ftms rightfully hate the way they were treated as females, and mtfs unjustly hate women for what they can never have. Either way, it comes down to male privilege, and thinking you have a right to something that isn't yours. Mtfs need to realize if they ever want to be taken seriously by cis women.
>>6498623
>FtM
I think some pretty misogynistic stuff, but that's because I internalized my issues with trans stuff for so long. I blamed a lot of the issues I had with being shit on me being a girl, and now that I'm able to break free from that, I just realize I never fit in with girls simply because that's not how my brain is wired. Still getting over a lot of my issues, but I guess that's why I'm going to go through therapy.
>>6498652
>Probably depends entirely on how you internalize gender stuff and how much you see yourself as [insert gender here]
Accurate
>>6498690
totally
>>6498623
Because ftms have mostly lived as women and mtfs have mostly lived as men
and people are selfish, males think the problems they have are the worst in the world and vice versa
>>6498690
The more I'm treated as a male, it's like I've realized this. People, in general, are a lot ruder to men, but they are also a TON more willing to listen to them. I've had conversations with some of my friends who say that this is because "do we know any women who deserve to be taken seriously?" and I dunno... I just kind of refuse to believe that that's true. Because when I thought that I was a girl, I deserved to be taken seriously then, just like I deserve to be taken seriously now.
(Or I don't, and no one deserves to be taken seriously)
>>6498690
Intersectional feminism can bite my shiny pale anorexic ass
>>6498732
u mad bro?
>>6498714
Some of your friends sound like complete douchebags. You're right that women deal with shit, but the you have retards like >>6498690 who think males should be burned at the cross.
Men have plenty of their own shit to deal with, no one takes any form of sexual abuse committed against a male seriously, and they serve way longer sentences for the same crime under the same circumstances. They are discouraged from childhood from being emphatic and vulnerable so most end up being dicks.
Both men and women need to get their shit together.
>>6498770
That's what I'm saying. I dunno. Like I know when I was living as a woman, people talked over me, they would dismiss what I had to say, they wouldn't accept my input on things, and just in general I don't feel like they took me as seriously as a person. That's a super shitty thing to go through. But now that I present and look overall more masculine, people laugh at my jokes more, they listen to me, they don't talk over me as much... I know in reading other transmen's experiences, that's not an uncommon phenomenon.
However, that's not to say I know men don't go through shit. They do. People say TERRIBLE things about short men, the way men are raised to hide their feelings which results in higher suicide rates in men, basically everything with American prison systems.... Once I'm further along in my transition I'll be able to talk about this a bit more intelligently, but I guess what I'm trying to say is I agree with you. People have it shit because people are shit, and if we can change that or improve it at all we should.
>>6498690
>because ftms rightfully hate the way they were treated as females,
>unjustly hate women for what they can never have.
>male privilege
>thinking you have a right to something that isn't yours
Kill yourself.
>>6498623
A side effect of growing up as the gender they were assigned at birth.
When it doesn't go away after transition is when I start to question the legitimacy of their identified gender.
>>6498818
no. u
>>6498832
>When it doesn't go away after transition is when I start to question the legitimacy of their identified gender.
That is also true. I started to hate women less even just when I started PRESENTING as male - not even just transitioning. I think a lot of it has to do with not being comfortable in your own skin, and hating what people see you as, and even what you see you as. When trans people see that change I think is when those feelings go away.
>>6498623
Because they/we hate the gender that was ASAB to us?
I don't actually hate males, I would like to have a boyfriend. But they're no better than females. Both genders are just different.
>>6498837
http://imgur.com/a/KrxF9/
>>6498623
Because cis scum should die.
>>6498690
>because ftms rightfully hate the way they were treated as females
>male privilege
I kek'd
>>6498817
>>>6498770
>That's what I'm saying. I dunno. Like I know when I was living as a woman, people talked over me, they would dismiss what I had to say, they wouldn't accept my input on things, and just in general I don't feel like they took me as seriously as a person. That's a super shitty thing to go through. But now that I present and look overall more masculine, people laugh at my jokes more, they listen to me, they don't talk over me as much... I know in reading other transmen's experiences, that's not an uncommon phenomenon.
>However, that's not to say I know men don't go through shit. They do. People say TERRIBLE things about short men, the way men are raised to hide their feelings which results in higher suicide rates in men, basically everything with American prison systems.... Once I'm further along in my transition I'll be able to talk about this a bit more intelligently, but I guess what I'm trying to say is I agree with you. People have it shit because people are shit, and if we can change that or improve it at all we should.
Basically hypo-agency vs hyper-agency.
https://youtu.be/KBgcjtE0xrE
>>6498690
Shouldn't you go push your antigay laws Or stalk some more women elsewhere?
All of the lgbt community is sick of your movement.
>>6499182
Could I get a TL;DR of the video?
>>6498623
Except I'm not a misogynist. I have no problems with women's rights and i don't hate all women. I'm usually terrified of men because of how violent they are towards mtfs and any male that doesn't conform to gender roles. I also distrust most cis women because their socialization often makes them deceptive and condescending towards anyone they feel is lower than them. I'm kinda scared of them too because they can be excepionally cruel in ways men usually aren't and they can sic their boyfriends on me if they feel uncomfortable around me.
Both genders are shit in their own ways.
>>6499206
You sound like your entire perception of women is based off news stories and television.
>>6499270
>>6498690
You feed the gullible public stories about how faggots are coming for their kids.
Your movement discredited itself by making its stand on hb2. Nobody will see you as anything other than another part of the religious fundamentalist block.
>>6499290
Who the hell are you talking about?
>>6499295
Radicals
>>6499301
Get some help, dude. Not everybody is a part of some pointless internet culture war looking to destroy you.
>>6499270
Nope. Maybe I've been around some really shitty women but that's my experience.
People do the same exact thing you're accusing me of with trans women all the time yet no one calls them out on it. This very thread is based on the same principle of using your own perception and experiences to make sweeping assumptions of a certain demographic.
>>6499344
Trans women is a much smaller subset of humanity than "women" by an incredibly dramatic margin
>>6499348
So then are we able to use the millions of women working with the religious right and celebrating the Orlando terror to pass judgment?
We're basically talking about more than a third of the women in the country cheering when gays get bashed and spurring on attacks by telling their men to bash so their kids don't get fagged.
>>6499372
>millions of women working with the religious right and celebrating the orlando terror
What does that have to do with them being female though? Christians are going to Christian, whether they're male or female.
>>6499201
I haven't watched the video, but I think I get what it's about. This isn't really a tl;dr but you should get the gist of the concept.
Women are treated like toys. We talk down on them, we protect them, we freak out over them. As a result, they get shorter prison sentences, guys fight over them as objects, and a man would probably jump in front of a car just to see a woman naked. Women have "hypo-agency" because they're seen as having less personal agency than men. Getting somebody to take you seriously in a conversation's difficult, but finding somebody to take you in is very easy. Most of a woman's social worth is derived from how people receive her.
Comparatively, men are held to a higher standard and are expected to work for absolutely everything they want. Men get longer prison sentences, have to go out of their way to establish friendships, are expected to deal with their own problems, and have to prove themselves worthy to find a partner. Men are treated as if they have "hyper-agency" because they're expected to hold their own hands and are seen as extremely independent beings. You're respected and looked up to in social situations, but if you're out on the streets you'd have better luck getting a job at McDonald's and sleeping under a bridge. A man's worth is largely determined by how much outwardly obvious agency he exhibits, meaning how rich, funny, strong, attractive, or in control he is.
- submissive lonely straight dude
>>6499390
They say you have to kill fags cause otherwise they'll attack women like them, or corrupt their kids. They've turned ridiculous ideas like that into a mass hysteria the public believes.
>>6499394
That.... Actually fits a lot of my experiences, and explains a lot I've seen in the world. But in a sense it almost feels like the people I've seen perpetuate that? Like guys' lack of emotional availability makes it difficult for them to form deep friendships, and a lot of women say things that perpetuate old steryotypes (I.e. That "we can't get ice! That's a man's job" - something my mom said). Holy shit, a lot more makes sense. This puts words to something I've been trying to figure out for a while.
>>6499468
One thought that I'm having while watching the video: when I identified as female, I caught myself having those thoughts. Like I caught myself thinking, "I'm never going to be good enough" or "The only thing I bring to the table is sex" or "I have to compensate for my natural lack of anything, due to the fact that I'm a woman, by going above and beyond and proving that I'm not like other girls". I found myself just not doing a lot, because I felt that either a) men could do things for me, or b) that I just wasn't capable enough of doing it myself. And maybe it's because I naturally gravitated towards male only spaces, but I felt really insecure about being a girl, and not just in things related to gender dysphoria. (I mean they might have been, who knows).
But now that I identify as male, I don't feel that way anymore. Like I don't feel as bound by gender norms (both working for and against them) and I feel like I can finally truly be myself. Is this just related to the way that I see men and women, or is this because I'm finally coming into and being comfortable with my body? Like I know I'm trans - I feel dysphoria when I look at myself and when I think about the way my body looks and how I sound and stuff - but it's just something interesting I've noticed. I no longer have all these anxieties that have plagued my life. It's so freeing.
>End blog post, sorry. I should really talk about all of this to a therapist.
Has anyone else felt this way?
>>6499348
So what? Does that makes it fair to you? Most people haven't even met a real trans person yet they'll have so many opinions on them. It's why news outlets like to parade us around like sideshow freaks. Because to them, we're walking, talking clickbait that get the ignorant masses eager to pull every self righteous opinion they have out of their ass. Their only experience with trans people is through the news and movies, yet they feel justified in making their own sweeping assumptions about them.
but im mtf and hate men
>>6499468
Overall, the video is interesting food for thought, but I think she kind of falls into the same fallacies I think a lot of people fall into when they start talking about biology and what impact that has on people at large. Specifically, I don't think that social interaction is 100% driven all of the time by ability to reproduce, and I think that she kind of takes that idea and runs with it a bit too much in this video. This isn't the only time I've seen someone do that; a lot of people do it. Maybe I'm just a bit too optimistic about humanity in general, but I think that sometimes people getting uncomfortable with people doing things that offend them (for example, female gamers getting upset about a super sexy character) has less to do with people being afraid of their reproductive success going down, and more to do with them just genuinely wanting to feel included, and like people take them seriously. Or even just wanting to see themselves represented in media.
Like I said, I'm known to be a bit more optimistic than the average person, and I'm sure that some of our psychology does come from reproduction. However, not to the degree that she claims it does. Still, interesting food for thought. I haven't thought this way in a while, so I kind of want to watch more of her videos sometime when it's not so late and when I don't have to get up for work in the morning.
Fuck, there actually are FtMs on that board. I'm drunk as shit, but I don't think it's only that that makes me feel a bit giddy.
>>6498623
That's only true on 4chan. Most MtFs I met were the MAX_FEMINISM type.
>>6498623
Frankly I don't understand why FTMs are misandrist but I totally get why MTFs would dislike women. Constantly being told you're privileged and your experiences don't matter and you don't deserve to be unhappy or complain because you won the lottery and were born white and male will really sour a girl on women.
>>6507576
THIS
I try not to let it get to me but fucking THIS
>>6498623
this is bullshit, it's the complete opposite; as a ftm I am a recovering misogynist and basically everyone in ftmg is also either a misogynist or used to be before transitioning. There has been many discussions about this in ftmgen, not so much in any other online places but to be fair there's no place besides 4chan where you admit to your builtup resentment towards women and not be instantly reported/deleted/blocked. Ancedotally the one mtf I know irl is extremely feminist bordering on misandry.
I used to hate, or at least resent, women for many reasons mostly because being raised as female you see the shit women get away with. All you have to do is look pretty and act stupid and other people will solve your problems for you, or go easy on you. Also women are downright toxic when it comes to stirring up drama and behaving like complete jackasses because no one will ever tell off an attractive woman. Then at the same time, you have all these woman complaining because they are "oppressed" and the whole 77 cents for every dollar meme. I can tell you for certain these women are living in the most liberal, kissass, feminist type places yet they have a never ending string of complaints as to why they aren't handed life on a silver platter.
Also I still resent feminism for fucking things over for trans people when it comes to healthcare and actually having rights/protections, and now feminists are trying to pull this "We're trans* friendly!" shit. It turns out that if you hate men you won't want to be one, and visa versa.
>>6508133
>downright toxic when it comes to stirring up drama
And homophobia
Worth mentioning that it's radical feminists telling the public that everyone gay and trans attacks and corrupts children.
They're singlehandedly responsible Fe reviving homophobia and inspiring attacks all over the country.
>>6507576
what troubles me, is that you won't see the irony in this statement...
>>6498623
I dunno, I'm a pretty misogynistic FtM
>>6514032
What troubles me is you think you're fit to rule the lgbt community when you've done nothing but spread homophobia and hysteria about lgbt raping kids.
You're cheering on bashers, tell them if they don't kill it'll be their kids next and that's enough to call your ilk toxic and the root of modern day homophobia.
