Bi male here. Recently, I have thought about transgender-ism and what it means. Some men can feel like women and some women can feel like men and both groups will sometimes take measures to 'become' the desired gender male>female, female>male. I have always been and have always called myself a man or of the male gender. However I have thought about gender and what it means. To me: gender is the name of a biological sex, but it has forgone updates due to new ways of thinking and I'm not disputing the additions that deviate from 'male' and 'female', but I want to know what drives someone to change his/her gender and how does a man know what it feels like to be a woman and vice versa, when they never really can know. Additionally, what does it feel like to have no gender and what do people like that do to their bodies (if anything)? Lastly, am I 'playing along' by calling an obvious man or woman something else, when they say that they are something else or not his/her sex? while I do believe that gender is in the mind, I still want to know how one can know what another is thinking (men feeling like women or something else vice versa).
PS: What about people who think that they are not people, but something nonhuman?
What is with this "feeling like women/men" shit you guys keep spouting? That's not how this works.
You don't feel like a woman if you're an MTF. You never do. You feel like shit because you aren't one, and so you do things to bend your body more towards looking like a female body, but you don't ever feel like you were a woman the whole time, you just wish you were a woman the whole time. Big difference.
>>6463318
Well that seemed to have struck a nerve. The thing is: I have met people that honestly do feel like his/her gender doesn't match who they are. However, I have met the self-loathing variety as you describe. My post was for people that actually feel different, not wishing that they were.
>>6463459
Those people have a name: idiots.
(lets use mtfs for example, reverse shit for ftm)
They never felt like a woman. Ever. They are just saying they did because they are an idiot. What was going on was this: and involuntary and powerful desire to be a girl, noticeable from a young age. You do feel different and you know you feel different the moment that you realize that not all boys want to be girls. Then you realize you're not normal and you are different, because people aren't supposed to hate their birth sex and have intense desire to be the other one.
This isn't self-loathing, this is self-acceptance. To say "I always felt like a woman" or things like that is delusion. They never did feel like a woman. They just wanted to be one, a whole lot, and in that, yes, they are different and they do feel different. But they don't feel like a woman.
To accept that you are different from both men and women is the key to happiness and self-honesty. I love my body now that I've transformed it, and I love my life and feel comfortable in my skin now, but I'm not going to go around spouting untrue bullshit like "I always felt like a woman"
Maybe they just haven't found the right way to word their feelings and allow tumblr/susan's/etc. to put those (delusional) words in their mouth.
>>6463793
You know, I would be down but I already have a mtf gf to do that with ;.;
>>6464162
fuck
you guys are always taken. maybe there is a good market for sane trannies?
>>6464348
Sane trannies are worth their weight in gold. Unfortunately we tend to get with each other a lot and thus all at once remove two sane trannies from the dating pool. We also have longer lasting relationships because we are more stable and not delusional tumblr tier fucks who get offended at every opportunity.
>>6463318
But I do "feel like a woman" because of how I interact with other people. I don't "get" male group hierarchical interaction, I don't "get" male dating and courtship patterns, but I completely get their female counterparts because those are hardwired neurological traits, NOT just socially constructed gender roles. To add to my "I feel like I'm a woman on the inside" observation, I feel like my body just doesn't at all fit what I think it should look like, at all. I've got disphoria. "Feeling like a woman" is a bad phrase because it's too ambiguous, I think properly it should be put "feeling like my brain is female but the rest of my body is not"
>>6464517
>"feeling like my brain is female but the rest of my body is not"
OP, this is what you're looking for.
Also check "desperately wishing your body wasn't male, but rather female".
>>6463318
TIL I'm probably trans.
>>6464517
Actually no. You don't feel like a woman in any way, shape, or form.
You don't think like a woman. You think like a tranny. Being effeminate by nature is not the same as being a woman, and without being born a woman, you can never, ever know what it's like to feel like one. You are another case of tranny who is having difficulty accurately describing their feels, and so says "I feel like almy brain is female"(in some way) when that is not a claim that can be substantiated or proven, and it's just outright false. You feel like a tranny. You have a tranny brain. Not a female brain. You cannot and never will know what it is like to have a female brain. None of us do. We simply have an intense desire to be a girl and our bodies do feel wrong, but that doesn't mean we feel like we feel like a woman ever.
>>6465714
>implying hormones don't make you feel more like a woman
you will NEVER be what you want to be. the surgery/hormones wont work.
you can't change your overall skeletal structure and proportions.
>>6465748
Nobody would know.
Also you are making no sense: your statement is practically the same as saying "a post-menopausal women is less of a woman than before" when they're just as much of a woman, just older.
Reminder that estrogen is not a female hormone. Testosterone is not a male hormone. Both are present to some degree in any functional human body.
>>6463292
There is no "feeling like a man/woman" you just feel like yourself. Trans people who say this and mean it are probably tumblr-tier delusional. There is only how you feel about your body, and for trans people that means they can't perceive themselves as their biological sex, so the body feels like it doesn't really belong to them, and feels inherently wrong. That is accompanied with an intense desire to physically be the opposite sex, which eventually drives the person to alter their body.
The "no gender" trans may be neutrois, agender or non-binary in how they label themselves. They may take cross-sex hormones too but generally also take measures to stay androgynous with low HRT dosages, or their fashion, etc.
>>6465825
>There is only how you feel about your body, and for trans people that means they can't perceive themselves as their biological sex, so the body feels like it doesn't really belong to them, and feels inherently wrong
That's actually a very good description
I think that people have trouble understanding trans because of the "feeling like a woman" bullshit. You guys in this thread explained it very well.
>>6465748
...no they don't
>>6463292
>how does a man know what it feels like to be a woman and vice versa
there is no such thing as "feeling like" a man or a woman. when trans people talk about "feeling like" one gender or another, they're (consciously or unconsciously) using that phrase as shorthand for:
- hating their current primary and secondary sex characteristics
- feeling like their body doesn't belong to them
- desiring the physical characteristics of the opposite sex
- feeling more comfortable with the social norms that accompany the physical characteristics of the opposite sex
that's it. there are no magical thoughts or feelings that only men have or only women have. when trans people talk about male/female "feelings," what they're really talking about is body dysphoria that they're doing a shit job of understanding and putting into words.
