There's just one thing I don't understand about trannies.
If a man-to-woman trans person has never actually been a woman, then how could they know they want to be one? How could they identify with the feeling of having the opposite genitals or want the opposite body, UNLESS it's a purely social phenomenon based on seeing and idealizing the other gender? As a thought experiment, imagine a baby raised in a city populated with only men, who doesn't ever see or learn about women for his whole life. Could such a baby possibly be trans? How?
>>6391837
>noun: dysphoria
>a state of unease or generalized dissatisfaction with life
Gender dysphoria means being uncomfortable with your own body's sexual characteristics. It isn't always cured by transitioning, but sometimes it is. No other cure is known.
Wow you sound smart! Got a book I can read?
>>6391862
I'm not trying to stump anyone here, I'm actually asking.
>>6391837
The simplest explanation I can give is: being treated and/or imagining yourself as one or the other is upsetting and so you fix it by switching to the other.
You definitely can get experience being treated as either gender, and so you learn your preferences based on that.
And you could tell if you are trans in that scenario if you find yourself extremely uncomfortable or if you find yourself not connecting at all with the social circles in said town. On this note, how does one get babies in this all male city? I am super interested.
>>6391837
Because they hate having a dick? Is it really that hard to figure out?
>>6391837
Throw around as many buzzwords as you want. It doesn't negate the existence of hormone imbalance induced medical conditions.
You've deluded yourself into thinking you're smarter than all doctors.
Same reason blind people know who they want to bang: instinct, a feeling of "wrongness" and "rightness", comparisons
>>6391837
Trannies don't 'want' to be women or men
Trannies have gender dysphoria which feels as though you are unable to perceive yourself as the sex you were born. As young children, a lot of us are not self aware of the sex we actually are.
as you get older and go through puberty, it becomes more and more apparent that other people perceive you as a man, and expect you to live life as if you are one. which is a foreign and bizarre feeling, that makes you feel like a 3rd person, piloting around someone else's meat suit.
it probably has to do with incorrect brain mapping and transitioning is the only cure
>As a thought experiment, imagine a baby raised in a city populated with only men, who doesn't ever see or learn about women for his whole life. Could such a baby possibly be trans? How?
He probably would end up in a naturally submissive and feminine roll in society. not exactly sure how this society would even procreate, or how it would operate. but im assuming there still needs to be a feminine/masculine yin and yang, and the only real sign of their transsexualism, would be that they prefer to take on more feminine roles
>>6391965
>feminine roll
feminine role* my bad
>>6391965
My whole question was about how you could identify as a different sex if you aren't aware that such a concept even exists. And if it wasn't a conscious "identifying," even still, if such a condition could even "feel" like anything if the person has no concept of sex or gender. Like as you said, young children are not aware of what sex they actually are, so if they were never taught could dysphobia even develop?
And all the people ITT getting assblasted because they think I'm trying to stump doctors need to cool off. I'm here admitting I don't understand this thing.
>>6391977
Anon your fine work has gone unnoticed so far but NO MORE I am an agent of Justice here to officially heap glory upon you for this masterpiece. Glory to you, Anon, Glory Eternal!
>>6392013
Your hypothetical question is retarded. Every human being has a concept of sex and gender. It isn't a social construct, it's not something that can be taught or learned, or changed due to a persons environment. It's something deeply ingrained in the human brain, just like breathing and hunger. Men and women's brains are structurally different, and brain scans of transpeople have shown time and time again that the sex they 'identify' as, is congruent with the structure of their brains.
Intersex people, who have intersex bodies (neither male or female, or both male and female depending on how you look at it) by your standards should have no idea what it feels like or means to be either a man or a woman.
But still, every single one of them, perceives themselves as either a man or a woman, despite having ambiguous genitalia, or going through 2 puberties, and experiencing living with both male and female secondary sex characteristics.
>Like as you said, young children are not aware of what sex they actually are
I never said that. young children are very aware of what sex they are.
its that transchildren are very aware of it too, but are only just starting to realize that the self perception of their bodies is wrong, and they can be confused growing up, as to what they actually are physically.
>>6392051
fuckin' thank you,, i thought it was a good one <3
>>6391837
>If a man-to-woman trans person has never actually been a woman, then how could they know they want to be one?
I'm not trans, but based on what I've researched, it's believed that trans' brains share some common physical features with the opposite gender. So a MtF would not only have feelings and instincts that commonly occur in the opposite biological sex, but she might go as far as to experience things as deeply psychosomatic as phantom breasts or genitalia. (i.e. something similar to phantom limb syndrome, where a person still feels a limb that was previously amputated)
It's not all that farfetched if you think about it. Being trans may simply be the result of the brain being prompted to develop in ways that share features with the opposite gender. Since there's nothing that can be medically done about how a developed brain works, the best doctors can do is offer hormone replacement therapy and maybe ultimately sex reassignment, to ease the degree of symptoms trans people have to deal with.
>>6391837
op got wreckd and bailed
>>6391977
Cute af
>>6392578
tbqh I think the thread was too rude to OP.
>>6391858
What if you are uncomfortable with your sexual characteristics but not as in you wish they were the opposite gender but more as the ideal image of your birth gender.
>>6393642
Yes that's a situation that probably happens
>>6393642
Thats just called bad self esteem. Bdd yo.
>>6393987
But how is it really all that different from gender dysphoria then in all aspects but one that the person doesn't want to be the different gender but how they feel their gender should be.
Here's an article about a short man that had his leg bones broken to get taller.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2105995/The-agonising-expensive-leg-lengthening-proceedure-surgery-patient-SIX-INCHES-taller.html
>Desperate to become the man he believed he should be, the determined 37-year-old turned to drastic measures- undergoing agonising, expensive surgery.
>'Apotheosis' explained: 'I realized that the world looked at me a certain way that I didn't look at myself in that certain way.
>'I wanted the way I felt about myself and the way the world felt about me to be similar.'
This sounds exactly like dysphoria to me, not body dysmorphic disorder. It's even called height dysphoria.
>Dr Paley said: 'The majority who come for cosmetic limb lengthening have what we call, height dysphoria. They're unhappy with their height.
>'It's one of the few psychologic-psychiatric disorders that you can actually cure with the knife.'
This is one of the reasons why I am on transgendered individuals side because they are opening the way for the fact that surgeries can often cure body image depression.
>>6394797
>cure body image depression
Yeah, no.
Dysmorphics could get thousands and thousands of dollars worth of surgery and will never, ever be happy with how they look. Repeat surgeries and/or dis-satisfaction are how a lot of patients get referred and diagnosed actually.
Source: I have it, and hate it.
Second, this is a society that trains young people (esp. females) from birth to hate every natural feature of their bodies, so that they'll buy useless products and try to "fix" them. Do you WANT people to be manipulating into spending money (and medical resources) they don't really have fixing perfectly normal bodies? You are aware that cosmetic surgery has risks, failures, and complications just like a medical operation right?
>>6395013
*to be manipulated
>>6391837
Why just mtf trannies?
Doesn't the opposite apply to ftm?
>As a thought experiment, imagine a baby raised in a city populated with only men, who doesn't ever see or learn about women for his whole life. Could such a baby possibly be trans? How?
It's not the exact same situation but look up the david reimer case. They sought to show that gender identity was entirely social and failed spectacularly, providing support to the idea of inset gender identity and discrediting such dubious research.
>>6393380
>why won't you take my bait seriously and give the answer I want?!?! STOP BEING MEAN!!!!
>>6391858
Do I have dysphoria since I would want to be a women and use it to get what i want? I would probably flash my tits for cash. EZ money at the cost of your dignity, but we are living in a world where social justice will defend being a slut. I used to catfish people on /b/ pretending I was a girl and would get them to send humiliating dick pics. I was pretty convincing too, i was able to get someone to take a pic with his dick in an orange and got another one to take a pic with hot sauce on his "hot dog". Being a woman gives you so much power over men as long as you aren't a fat ugly hag.
>>6396309
no. maybe you should read that post again
>>6391837
It's a fucking trend. A new freedom of self happiness lifestyle that's being preached. I understand gays and lesbians and their sexual orientation since puberty. The genetics supports this. But this unique way of people hating themselves and reality is a god damn epidemic and the concept is being pushed towards the extreme like everything else. I don't give a fuck who I offend because I live in the real world, and it's cold and tough at times but that's real fucking life. Like the feminist movement was ethical and very reasonable, but now it's devolved into this feminazi hate bullshit which doesn't even make sense morally anymore. Just like this sideshow bullshit. I've never seen or met a transgender person who was mentally right or constructive or even logical. At this point heroine and atheism makes more sense. I mean shit, I don't think I've seen Caitlin Jenner smile at all, it looks confused and pissed more than Bruce ever did.
>>6396368
>boo hoo, I can't accept reality
>>6395013
And third, society is weeding out the weak and pouring this twisted remedy into their Starbucks. If you don't have tough skin, this world isn't for you. Sorry. Why you think grandparents and parents look with disgust at these new movements? They didn't have the luxury of being pussies, they dealt with life like strong human beings should
>>6396383
Here, take this Tranissue. It's a kleenex, but can be a car.... a dog... a spaceship... a shot of tequila. Anything you want! How beautiful is that?
>>6391837
You know, it's that simple.
How do cis people know that they don't want to be of the opposite sex? They haven't tried to be of the opposite sex, so how can they tell they don't want to be and live as the opposite sex?
>As a thought experiment, imagine a baby raised in a city populated with only men, who doesn't ever see or learn about women for his whole life. Could such a baby possibly be trans? How?
Could such a baby be gay? Or literally anything?
I'm looking forward to the aftermath of this fad when the majority of people who switch genders realize that their lives haven't changed AT FUCKING ALL and they realize how out of their mind they were. Your feelings don't fucking matter. The sun will supernova no matter how many hands across the world you weak humans hold
>>6396446
Most of the people who are into it as a fad never physically transition, so nothing is gonna happen, they might just be a bit embarrassed.
>>6396446
>The sun will supernova
It won't, it's not massive enough.
>>6392138
>Every human being has a concept of sex and gender. It isn't a social construct,
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
YOU HEARD THIS TRANNY EVERYONE, STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S MOUSE: GENDER ISN'T A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT!
>>6391965
>As young children, a lot of us are not self aware of the sex we actually are.
>as you get older and go through puberty, it becomes more and more apparent that other people perceive you as a man, and expect you to live life as if you are one.
Trans people need to go through puberty in order to be aware of their own gender and what others see them as? Are you all retarded?
>>6396774
How's your first day on /lgbt/?
>>6396791
What's new about my post tranny? Feel free to point it out.
>>6396824
Nothing is new about it, but it's such a rehashed argument that using it indicates newfaggotry
Sex is biologically defined
Gender is more psychological, although there is evidence for sexual dimorphism in brain structures thought to govern gender
Gender roles are defined by cultural norms, stereotypes and prototypes, and may differ from culture to culture
>>6398386
>Nothing is new about it,.
>it's such a rehashed argument that using it indicates newfaggotry
These two statements literally contradict each other. Are you retarded? Also what argument? Are you just spewing whatever crap coming out of your mind?
>Gender is more psychological, although there is evidence for sexual dimorphism in brain structures thought to govern gender
Feel free to post the evidence that ISN'T a study that's done on trannies already on hormones.
>>6398452
>These two statements literally contradict each other
No they do not
Trying to conflate "gender" and "gender roles" is done primarily by trolls, newfags, idiots, and the willfully ignorant
Nobody but tumblr and a select few morons honestly believes gender is itself a social construct
Not even all of tumblr believes that
I didn't personally argue that transsexuals necessarily have evidence of cross-sex dimorphic brains, just that there is evidence of sexual dimorphism in certain brain structures, and those structures are thought to govern gender
>>6398615
>sexual dimorphism in certain brain structures
In a few minor cases, sure.
>and those structures are thought to govern gender
Not by the people who actually know what they're talking about.
>>6398656
Not necessarily, yes
It's more of a hypothesis than a theory
>>6398673
and yet it's being pushed by psychiatrists who don't actually understand the research, and medical industry who don't care as long as they can make some money.
>>6391837
How do you know you want to be a doctor if you've never been one? How do you know you want to be a musician if you've never been one? Why let anyone make any choice about any aspect of their life because how could they possibly know what they want?
>>6398691
"doctor" and "musician" are social constructs, not dependent on biology. You can become a doctor if you aren't one, but you can't change your sex, or know what it's like to be the other sex.
>>6398690
So you're proposing more research into the causes of transsexuality? Wonderful
It would be fantastic if this research you're proposing were to lead to a more effective treatment of gender dysphoria
Maybe, trans individuals will be seen as people undergoing medical treatment instead of perverts and abominations
>>6391837
You know what you want to be by experiencing the contrast of what you >don't< want to be everyday from the moment your born.
By virtue of experiencing toys that don't feel like you, clothes that don't feel like you, hair lengths that don't feel like you, pronouns that don't feel like you, ect.
>>6396368
>The genetics supports this
Nice bait, the only actual physical evidence we've found for gay people is neurological differences like in trans people but more limited.
>>6393642
whatever it's called, I have this
>>6396446
The "fad" has been going on since ancient greece, you retard.
You're like those flyovers in /ck/ that rant about whatever food finally made it to their shithole being a "meme".
>>6396824
>What's new about my post tranny? Feel free to point it out.
Nobody here thinks gender is a social construct.
Those are tumblr maymays
>>6396784
I never said that. I said it becomes more apparent during puberty, since that's when you get most of your secondary sex characteristics
>>6398789
The neurological differences are the same between gay people and trans people. It is a region of the brain responsible for sexual attraction that was found to have similarities between lesbians and straight men, gay men and women, and trans women and gay men, but not straight men and women.
>>6398615
> just that there is evidence of sexual dimorphism in certain brain structures, and those structures are thought to govern gender
Still my point stands. Where's the evidence?
>>6398903
Rephrase it however you want but you said:
>it becomes more and more apparent that other people perceive you as a man, and expect you to live life as if you are one.
This is NOT something that takes a human of average intelligence until adolescence to realize. You're full of shit
>>6399148
The same studies you decry for not suitably measuring the brains of transsexuals had to have a control group, did they not?
Transsexual brains were measured in reference to sexually dimorphic structures, regardless of if the study was conducted properly
>>6399148
it has nothing to do with intelligence,,
its not something the average human experiences at all, since your brains and bodies are always congruent
>>6391837
Have you ever wanted something you haven't had before? It's like that.
>>6399007
Nope, there's tons more. And mtf's show similarities with cis women the most duh
>>6391965
>He probably would end up in a naturally submissive and feminine roll
Trans people like you really, really, really need to cut this misogynist shit out.
>>6400922
I was driving home from the beach and couldn't bother to find the links for some asshole on 4chan
Now I'm hanging out with a friend so I still don't
>>6401369
Sure thing tranny
