>tfw you realize that you just have a super intense fetish and aren't actually trans
>tfw you realize that you don't have a sexuality outside of that fetish and still feel shit about being a man
My life's a Kobayashi Maru. I don't want to become a living fetish. I also don't want to feel shit about not doing that. Wake me up inside.
If you're capable of that much self-reflection then you should be able to fix your shitty self-esteem.
>>6302944
fetishists make up the majority. they're what you call the visibly trans
>>6302949
lol
>>6303009
The more I read on the subject the more I feel that there has been a lot of confusion regarding the kind of self arousal the majority of MTFs experience. There is a difference between being aroused in the same way a cis woman is self-aroused when feeling sexy and the self-arousal of a fetishist at, say, imagining himself as a housewife or other feminine stereotype. I'd say the first could indicate actual GID because it is compatible with the feminine experience while the second is something else entirely. The two types are conflated in literature because it is politically uncomfortable to make the distinction. The LGBT community promotes a "feminine soul" narrative. The conservative opposition promotes a "Transsexuals are either extreme homosexuals who are so feminine they feel better as women or fetishists whose fetish is so intense they feel the need to transition". I freely admit to being naught but a fetishist but I think this approach pathologizes a lot of genuine GID-sufferers by conflating the two types of autoerotic feminine embodiment fantasies, one of which is natural for women to have.
It is a weird day when you start envying trannies.
>>6303211
Well, "pathologizes" is the wrong term since GID is a Disorder anyhow. Sorry. You understand what I mean.
>>6303211
Not to burst your bubble but women don't have those fantasies. And you will never know, hon.
But that's okay, a lack of self awareness is not a roadblock but a gateway into "womanhood". Just ask Stephonkee.
>>6303292
>I speak for all women
>>6303292
Are you fucking kidding me? Of course women are turned on by the thought of themselves as other women fucking men. This is a well-established fact. Read the post before responding.
I get that you are here to post angry screed but I'm not even trying to pretend to be anything but a male fetishist. If you're going to shitpost at least shitpost on topic.
>>6303316
uh oh did that trigger you? mr.facts just kicked down my door and told me how it is!.. LOL
>>6303320
Yes, yes, "I was only pretending to be retarded", okay.
>likes anime
>mentally ill
every time
>>6303316
>Of course women are turned on by the thought of themselves as other women fucking men.
Woman here. No we don't. You're an idiot with a fetish.
>>6304504
Are you seriously arguing that women don't place themselves in the shoes of fictional characters in sexy situations? This is a well-covered phenomena. The very existence of erotica and self-identification within it hangs on it. It is not even unique to women. Men do the exact same thing. This has nothing to do with transsexuality.
>>6303009
Why do you think the visibly trans are the majority, and why do you think those are majorly fetishist? dumb
>>6304554
And men don't place themselves in the porn they watch.
And women can't possibly be getting off to the situation and descriptions like how men get off to the visuals and sounds of porn. No they MUST be imagining themself as the character.
You're being ridiculous
>>6304567
>And men don't place themselves in the porn they watch
Yes they do.
And so do women. unless they're incapable of empathy. This is inherently how porn works.
If descriptions was all, why characterize people in erotic fiction, a literary function inherently made for an audience to empathize with a character?
discussion aside it's astounding that you'd even make this claim, it is so far in the core of knowledge of human sexuality.
>>6302944
Super real talk: Just stop obsessing about it. Okay you have a fetish for trans shit. Cool, you have a fetish. That's only one minor aspect of your entire personality.
Just accept that your sexuality is partly fetish based and indulge it when you get to sex. Otherwise don't waste your time thinking about sex and gender. Just live your life.
>>6304567
>And men don't place themselves in the porn they watch.
lol you're dead wrong on that one.
>>6304567
>And men don't place themselves in the porn they watch.
Why do you assume this? It doesn't happen all of the time but men absolutely do imagine how it would be like to be a hot manly character in a sexy situation e.g. James Bond getting the girl. I don't even know if they do it more or less often than women.
>And women can't possibly be getting off to the situation and descriptions like how men get off to the visuals and sounds of porn.
Hey, here's an idea: both sexes do both. A woman can absolutely get off to porn as a third party viewer. She can also self-identify with a character. Men do the same.
>You're being ridiculous
You're the one who's acting in a needlessly hostile manner. For one, you keep trying to bring up the fact I have a fetish when I have already said so in the first place. My fantasies are the kinds of fantasies women definitely do not have.
>>6304554
>Are you seriously arguing that women don't place themselves in the shoes of fictional characters in sexy situations
Women think about THEMSELVES in those situations. They don't fantasize about being 2d animu girls being finger lasted by other 2d animu girls like transbians/fetishists do.
>>6304622
Hey, here's an idea: everything you said was what I was implying.
You started with a false dichotomy.
You started with a massive over generalization for both genders.
And I'm sure there are women who think about sex like you do.
This conversation is pointless.
>>6304637
>They don't fantasize about being 2d animu girls being finger lasted by other 2d animu girls like transbians/fetishists do.
You're right. Most of them fantasize about yaoi animu boys. It's the same shit though, you're retarded.
>>6304567
I'm a man and I've never heard of this before coming to lgbt. Talked to some other guys after hearing about it and they didn't do it either. All of us watch porn to see someone get fucked in some way. Not to self insert.
>>6304637
A lot of erotica is based on the reader imagining themselves to be the character in question, embodying them. You can read a story about X being courted by Fabio on a pirate ship and either find the situation arousing as a third party or imagine that you are one of the characters.
>>6304674
Not who you're responding to but I'm a man as well and I can't help but think of fucking the girl I'm watching get fucked. I assumed that's what everyone does.
>>6304696
I'm not thinking very much when I'm watching porn to be honest, if I had time to think I wouldn't be enjoying myself. It's not about being a spectator either, it's just about the acts or the people if they are hot. Seeing hot people fuck is hot in that context.
>>6302944
Do what makes you happy. Who cares if you're trutrans or not
>>6304655
but what he/she just said was always his/her assertion.
>>6303211
> types of autoerotic feminine embodiment fantasies, one of which is natural for women to have.
you are so full of shit dude
there is a big difference between women self-inserting as a character in Fifty Shades of Garbage and a dude dudemcson with dudely career, dudely personality and dudely interests putting on his wife's panties and masturbating about being a woman and saying out loud in his booming masculine voice "oh yeah i feel so feminine now"
BIG FUCKING DIFF, DUDE
>>6304655
I feel like we are talking past each other. Perhaps what I wrote was unclear. Let me try to clarify.
I've recently read of some AGP sufferers who got off to imagining themselves sitting with other women and knitting, or cleaning the house for their husband, or other sexist traditional femininity bullshit. I think it is fair to say that outside of fringe fetishists normative women definitely do not get turned on by such things. On the other hand I posited that normative women, much like normative men, did sometimes get turned on by imagining themselves as another member of their gender having sex. I then supposed that it seems probable to me that some transsexual individuals fantasize about embodying a character in the same sense heterosexuals do while others - such as myself - are fetishists. Does this makes sense or am I just missing something?
>>6304748
I think you make a worthy distinction but arrive to the wrong conclusion. Someone masturbating to their own femininity is definitely of the fetishist variety and experiences things in a very different way than a woman does. On the other hand it seems sensible that some get off to the idea in a fundamentally similar way i.e. they focus on their partner and the experience, and only do so from the viewpoint of a woman because they cannot identify with men and their sexuality is "feminine".
>>6304753
you made yourself clear but i doubt they want to listen anyway
>"AGP is natural and part of healthy female sexuality! s-stop saying something i don't want to hear!"
>>6304713
Interesting. That sounds bizarre to me, but whatever. Sex is weird.
>>6304748
Not the retarded OP, but I actually think those two things are very similar. They look a little different on the surface but are both really just masturbating while envisioning a fantasy.
I used to have pretty bad AGP.
Not only that, but I was really liberal so I really wanted to be transexual and bisexual growing up.
And this was in the 90s, before it was cool.
Got over it, and still support gay rights, but think the trans rights stuff is bullshit. Sorry if you don't pass, but that's your problem not society's.
>>6304753
>I've recently read of some AGP sufferers who got off to imagining themselves sitting with other women and knitting, or cleaning the house for their husband, or other sexist traditional femininity bullshit.
Most fetishes seem very odd to people who don't have them. I can't imagine a foot fetish. I don't see anything attractive about feet. This is the same, but the fetish is feeling like a traditional woman I suppose.
> I then supposed that it seems probable to me that some transsexual individuals fantasize about embodying a character in the same sense heterosexuals do while others - such as myself - are fetishists.
That happens, but not necessarily always. Every permutation of that you can imagine happens in abundance with both men and women.
>>6304802
It's bizarre to me how people self insert as well. On so many levels. I usually only watch porn with people I find attractive and these are people that would never have sex with me anyway, that's a huge break in my suspension of disbelief at least. I wouldn't be able to stay hard if I was supposed to think about "that its really me fucking the girl/guy / the guy/girl fucking me", that just doesn't compute to me.
>>6304826
How did you get over it? Anything special or just with time?
>>6304780
i would almost agree with you but i have to point out that AGPs only conflate femininity with "submissiveness" so it's doubtful to say they experience "femininity"
hey i am not saying that women never feel aroused by their own bodies, say, when one buys whatever piece of clothing which makes them feel sexy but this feeling is incompatible with a dude fetishizing womanhood. that's all
>>6304837
To be clear I don't literally sit there and think ""that its really me fucking the girl. Yeah go me!" I watch her getting fucked and it's natural to me that in the back of my brain the fantasy is that I'm the one fucking her. But hey, diff'rent strokes and all.
>>6304850
>say, when one buys whatever piece of clothing which makes them feel sexy but this feeling is incompatible with a dude fetishizing womanhood.
Also not the guy you've been talking to, but I see those as pretty much the same thing. It's really just the feeling of finding something that makes you feel sexy.
>>6304850
>i would almost agree with you but i have to point out that AGPs only conflate femininity with "submissiveness" so it's doubtful to say they experience "femininity"
Very true. Their own perception of it, whatever that means. In a sexist society that perception's usually sexist.
>hey i am not saying that women never feel aroused by their own bodies, say, when one buys whatever piece of clothing which makes them feel sexy but this feeling is incompatible with a dude fetishizing womanhood. that's all
You're right. I just think some transsexuals get a bad rep for being associated with the likes of me. Some shouldn't have transitioned for sure. I have all of the sympathy in the world for the genuine cases.
>>6304838
Just got a different fetish I guess.
>>6304597
Seconding this. You don't have to make everything in your life about sex. There's so much more.
>>6304895
Should be the fucking national anthem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov5tCLOT6aA
>>6304850
>i would almost agree with you but i have to point out that AGPs only conflate femininity with "submissiveness" so it's doubtful to say they experience "femininity"
>tfw dominant, assertive agp tranny
>Put patient on HRT
>Sex drive dissappears
>Ask them if they still want to be a girl
>If yes they're trans
>If no they're a fetishist
It's as easy as that guys
>>6306031
Research shows pretty much everyone go on but it also shows that a significant number of said transsexuals fetishized some aspects of being a woman pre-transitioning and only stopped later so..
>>6303316
No we usually dont... the fuck?
This argument is dumb. I well, I guess it's interesting (minus the vitriol), but it's still dumb. There are as many sexualities as there are people, and probably about as many ways to get off to smut.
How about this for a qualifier: Does the idea of being a woman make you happy even after you get off and briefly lose interest in sex? Congrats, you're probably trans.
>>6306625
You'd think there'd be at least a decent sized market for female POV porn for women, but instead they tend to get off on either male porn (ie self inserting as the girl and due to perspective you're AGP) or other things entirely.
>>6307073
i thought women mostly watched gay male porn?
>>6307088
That's sort of a meme. Gay porn involving twink-ish characters, or you know, yaoi etc, still focuses on the male form but tends to be a lot less.. well, male on female porn is VERY smutty/dirty and kind of uncomfortable to get off to. So yaoi and the like is palatable in that sense. However I wouldn't say it's 'most' women. Apparently lesbian porn tops the chart anyway for women.
![PornGraph[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/pDfE4KN.png "PornGraph[1].png")
>>6307088
>>6307123
>>6307127
why is ebony so popular?
>>6306985
>There are as many sexualities as there are people
>There are as many truths as there are people
>>6307133
You could either go with the /pol/ meme that it's bestiality for normal people, or there's a large portion of black viewers on pornhub, or some mix between the two.
>>6305087
>>6304597
Thirding this. Stop obsessing, indulge in it only so far as it doesn't bring suffering.
>>6304637
>They don't fantasize about being 2d animu girls being finger lasted by other 2d animu girls like transbians/fetishists do.
In my AGP fantasies I always tried to faithfully visualize/depict myself as close to reality as possible, i.e. "what would I plausibly have looked like had I been born as a girl"
Also, for the record, I've fapped to pr0n both 3rd person, self-inserting as a male and self-inserting as a female.
I also turn myself on when I'm feeling sexy or doing dirty stuff, no need for AGP to be involved; have had AGP and non-AGP fantasies about sex with women and/or men; have also had genderbender fantasies about OTHER people.
So just please stop saying X demographic doesn't fantasize about Y in Z way, people are unforeseeably perverted.
>>6307136
I'm not sure what your point was intended to be
>>6307665
My ironydar is beeping like crazy, but ok.
>>6307073
There is though, isn't there? All of the text-based erotica? Visual porn seems to be more of a male thing.
>>6307601
So you haven't watched NGE? It's just that there's a line in its last episode very similar to the one that you said, which I posted. That gif is from the same episode.
>>6306031
>people/women on estrogen and low test have no sex drive
>>6304753
>I've recently read of some AGP sufferers who got off to imagining themselves sitting with other women and knitting
yeah this is totally not normal
>or cleaning the house for their husband, or other sexist traditional femininity bullshit
this is p normal tho, depending on why it turns you on. there's a reason french maid rp's are so common. if you look at campy pornos with a "plot" (made for guys) the guy is often doing some kind of stereotypically masculine thing like working on machinery, playing violent video games, etc. when guys go into sexy mode they tend to become hypermasculine, and women become hyperfeminine, and it's situations that exaggerate those things and might be considered "traditional gender roles" that are often the most erotic. if that wasn't the case there wouldn't be so many women who watch embarrassingly corny guilty pleasure shows about hyperfeminine lead actresses and hypermasculine guys who are their romantic interests. and way less people would have touched themselves to mad men
>>6312400
shinji is literally a straight-leaning tranny with daddy issues and accepting this was essential to him coming out of the lcl
>>6302944
You should work on that. I've managed to neatly separate my two "identities" if you will. My cross-dressing fetish is for when I'm at home in private and I'm a man out in public.
I don't suffer from any cognitive dissonance somehow. It's nice.
So long as this private hobby stays private there will be no problem otherwise I'm in for a lot of long awkward explanations but I'll cross that bridge if and when I get there.
>>6312455
It is actually a well-documented fact that putting a biological male on estrogen all but annihilates their sex drive. Makes sense, all in all.
>>6304554
>Of course women are turned on by the thought of themselves as other women fucking men.
Women _sometimes_ like to fantasize about being a different, ideal version of themselves, yes, but not an entire other, existing female or written female character.
>>6314504
>Sometimes
Yes, of course, you're right. I'd bet that some women never do it at all.
>ideal versions of themselves
Some of them do that, but I've talked to a lot of people and from everything I've heard self-inserting in porn is really common among both genders. Some just enjoy "watching from the side", some imagine what it would be like to get into the same situation, some go a step further and imagine what it would be like to actually be that character, embodying them. I always got the feeling that the reason text-based pornography protagonists are Mary Sues is to allow the reader to enjoy imagining to be them more.
>>6314533
I'd like to add that I think it is telling that a lot of effort in spent on describing the protagonists of heterosexual erotic literature even though the reader is not attracted to them at all.
>>6314533
>>6314542
I don't know much about erotica outside of fanfiction, but self inserts work well because they're such a blank one size fits all canvas, hence my initial point.
>a lot of effort in spent on describing the protagonists
It's not the amount of words that matter, it's how much substance is actually in those words.
>>6314549
I really can't refute you or deny your experience. This is just what I've read and heard, but maybe I'm really wrong.
