So on one hand yes you are the only person who can define your orientation and if you don't define yourself as gay it's not our place to.

On the other hand you're gay and stupid. A stupid gay man who believes he's neither.

>>6237479
I have no reasonable other choice.

The market is tainted by shallow people
yet
you can only be attracted to models and pornstars

So who is it that is shallow here? The market or you?

>>6237519
You're saying that attraction shouldn't have anything to do with physical appearance? You're wrong.

>>6237547
No but again its funny that, that was what you picked up on.
I'm saying that its stupid to decry society and others for being shallow when you are shallow yourself. Nothing wrong with being shallow but why pretend you are anything but?

>>6237552
I have my own reservations for myself, I feel I am a great idiot, except that's really none of your business. I am just outlining that to say, yes people have their flaws and I am not so vain that I think I am above everyone else. It is you who are presumptuous to assume things of me.

>>6237547

If the only dudes you find attractive are male models you're probably not gay lol

In a room of 10 guys I would find 5 or more decent and 2 I would probably want to lower my mouth over their crotch asap

You will not see any of those male models irl. I've seen maybe 2 in my ENTIRE life firsthand

>>6237625
This is exactly my argument.

>>6237608
The only things I am assuming about you are the things you are presenting here. And what you are presenting is two conflicting ideas.
I'll go over it again. From your OP
>some guys here in America that would be a good match for me, but the market is also tainted by shallow people

Your claim is that there might be guys you can match with. But! The market is tainted by shallow people.
That's all fine and good, the market is tainted by shallow people however.
Why is shallowness a negative quality?

Next
>The problem is, most guys who I find most attractive are like, male porn stars and male models
So the quality of which you are attracted to males are a) purely sexual and b) purely shallow.
It means whatever level of same sex attraction you have (which sounds completely onanist in nature to me), it is also shallow.

Then it becomes important to ask why is it a negative quality to be shallow. To hate yourself? To feel guilt over your onanist fantasies? In fact why is any of this a problem at all?

>>6237631
But you also seemed to indicate that you're not attracted to women. Which would mean that you're... not straight, at least. The majority of men pay a LOT of attention to women and their bodies all the time.

You should take a serious look at yourself and figure out if you might be repressing your attraction to men.

>>6237383
>I'm not gay
>I love dicks
>dicks
>love

I have news for you hunny

>>6237695
The quality I am attracted to in males is not purely shallow. Personality and interests are something very important to me. I consider shallow people people who I don't relate to I guess, which I guess is a poor choice of words on my part. Except, it wasn't intentional, I simply caught my own contradiction. I had in my mind when I said that, an image of the sort of attractive but obnoxious and narcissistic guys you see in gay tinychat chat rooms. So no, I rest my case, but I presented it poorly. I am attracted to guys for their physical appearance, but personality is of utmost importance to me.

My ideal guy, would be one who's cute, charming, interested in kinky sex, has a playful side, is attractive as fuck, interested in art, philosophy, music, reading, going to art museums, a dark sense of humor. Basically my ideal partner is extremely fucking fantasy. I'm sure there's people who don't fit my idea of amazing who wouldn't really fit that description, because truth is stranger than fiction, but I don't think it will happen to me. That is probably what fuels my depression fueled rage towards humanity and the fact that we're all going to die.

>>6238016
See just by looking at what you wrote your situation now seems completely different. What you perhaps meant in your original post was that for now, your sexuality largely remains through fantasy and pornography. There's nothing wrong with that but to paraphrase what a great man once said "do you really want to spend your days being a wanker?".

Let's flip things around a bit.
Say that later today you are taking a walk, and you sit down in a park on a bench. Shortly after a man that is cute, charming, kinky in the bedroom, playful, attractive, interested in art, philosophy, music and literature and with a dark sense of humor sits down next to you.

What incentive does this guy have to be interested in you.
It's one thing two understand what YOU want out of a relationship but its perhaps more important to understand what you can bring to the table. What are your qualities. Why should this person fall for you and be interested in you? (I'm not being rhetorical by the way).

>>6238042
Well, I'm attractive to some, kind, enjoy going to art museums, reading, philosophy, music, very kinky, and I have a dark sense of humor ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>6238072
Those are more interests than qualities tho. What makes you stand out from someone who, let's say is impulsive, adventurous, strong, intuitive and can solve problems easily. If your ideal guy is looking for those qualities how are you going to attract someone like that if the qualities don't fit?

Either like attracts like or opposites attract, but either way its important to know what you are brining to the table and what you are expecting to be on the table.

>>6238108
ah, I can try to intellectualize my way out of that sentiment, but it's rather repulsive to me. Not because you said it, but what you said is sad to me. I don't like that idea at all. The thought that I would have to try, just to get others to see something in me, it seems so contradictory to everything told to me about finding people you like. It's not any easier, when you have no motivation as I do.

I consider myself sort of a functional depressive. I stopped feeling distraught over my feelings a while ago, but the lack of motivation for anything still remains. I am simply comfortable with that though, I accept that and I'm not unhappy over all. It makes me sad though, to think that if I wanted to attract someone, I would have to go out of my way to become something different.

Maybe I do have some qualities that could appeal to others, but what I've found is that people in general don't really seem to notice my qualities, I seem to put off people. I am a hyper sensitive person, I am sensitive to other people's emotions, my senses are often stronger than other people's, my awareness and the level of attention I am paying to anything at any given moment. It's made me appreciate things like art more, but I'm afraid it does nothing for me as a person because - although this has nothing to do with the current discussion - I'm not sure if I have the motivation to live in this world. It's not that I want to die, I just don't feel like living, or doing anything really. I'd almost say that I'm happy just doing nothing and being a nobody, but idk. There's sort of doubt that follows me constant, constantly reminding me of what I could be. It's there, and I acknowledge it, but at this point it's just an albatross I have to carry.

Ok I remove any reservations I had earlier, OP is definitely gay.

>>6238173
are you just being crass?

>>6238159
Why is it difficult to see yourself in a good light or to highlight your good side? I don't know you, whatever you would have said I would have believed.
So let's see. You are empathetical, caring, mindful, alert, sensitive and analytical.
Wouldn't you say these are all good qualities?

>>6238194
These "qualities" are often what overwhelm me and make life difficult.

>>6238194
I suppose you could say they're good qualities. Ignore my last post, when I get pessimistic it begins to drive my thoughts.

>>6238199
That's understandable. Humans are social creatures by design, to override that we often need higher ideals such as religion or god to manage isolation. If you're stuck with yourself most of the time and your own thoughts that will make your life difficult.

All relationships are a dynamic. But at the heart of it we seek out sexual and romantic partners to help and be helped. When something becomes overwhelming, such as analyzing everything - we need someone more pragmatic to stabilize us and ground us in the here and now. And in turn we help them by making them discover depths in life they had not really considered. That's just an example the world is usually more complex.

What you have to train yourself to do is to love those qualities in yourself even when they are overwhelming. Because they are, for now, the parts that makes up the sum of you. It's sad I think when people don't like themselves. Does that make sense?

>>6238222
Yes, it makes sense. Well put. I'll think on that for a while, I have nothing else to say.

>>6238222
Also, thank you for your insight. It's rare to see such respect and patience on this forum.

>>6237383
>I'm not gay but I really love dicks.
I would actually love this meme if you closet cases dodn't become incredibly aggressive and obnoxious after a good fuck.

>>6238222
I'm not OP, but how do you go about finding positive qualities in yourself when you hate yourself?

>>6238810
I don't think I'll ever have sex. Not by choice, but because it seems infeasable. I'm 22 and I feel that I'm almost past the point where I will find anyone attractive, I don't have long to go. My age range of who I find attractive is about 18-25. So basically, I'm nihil.

>>6239016
You'd have to be willing to look at yourself neutrally.

>>6242352
I'm sorry for sounding obnoxious, but how do you do that? I have spent years hating myself and connecting the tiniest mistakes to my failure, so I can't even remember the past without getting angry. Is there a good way to get a neutral view?

>>6246417
Can you look at your qualities without judging them, just looking at them?
If not, can you talk about your qualities in third person without judging them?
If not, can you let other people find your qualities and hear them/read them without judging them?

For instance. Just from reading that you've hated yourself for years, tells me that you probably have perseverance and you're quite resolute.
Now can you see those as good qualities, no matter if they have been driving forces for you hating yourself?
I think perseverance is good. Its sort of a fighter spirit that you don't see much of these days, everyone wants things to go so quick and fast.

>>6246450
I find it funny you consider hating myself for years to be perseverance, when I really am someone who wants things done quick and fast. Part of why I dislike myself.

And I can't really do any of the things you suggested about not judging myself. I'm naturally contrarian, so even when people tell me good things about myself, I will be quick to point out negative examples of why they don't apply. Hell, even how I'm responding to you now can be an example of that.

>>6246911
It was just a simply conclusion I don't really know anything but what you post here and I try not to go too overboard with analysis.
You must have at least some interest or else you wouldn't want to know how. And that's neither here or there. That is just something you'd have to consider.
I'm not a therapist or here to convince you of anything but as long as you're interested in conversation I'll share my take on things.

I used to have a friend like you many years ago. She hated herself more than anything. At times it almost became like a competition to her and she would challenge people in a sort of psychological hurt contest. She wanted all the self-hate in the world for just herself.
At the same time she was a good friend to have because she genuinely cared about the people she wanted in her life and defended us whenever the situation demanded. That was a safe feeling to have someone have your back like that. But as time moved that self-hate affected other parts of the friendship and it became really difficult to remain friends.

Other than what I've already said the thing that made me turn around and start looking at my personality and the qualities of who I am was having an interest in acting techniques. I was, and am a fairly neurotic and nervous person. But when I started looking at that as if that was my motivation and my interactions were scenes that I had to practice a character for I was able to see myself in a more neutral light. Just something like walking to the store and being very aware of how my body language was and how my nerves affected my voice, my walk, my interaction with random people.
I guess if you're looking for happiness that might be hard but maybe you can somehow find a way to carry the self-hate as who you are and what you do?

>>6250131
I'd love to keep having a conversation. Easier to reveal things on an anonymous image board than in person.

I understand what you're saying about your friend, and my self-hate has impacted my friendships. As much as I enjoy hanging out with the few friends I have, when you have constant negative thoughts it's hard to engage with them in the moment; or more specifically, answer questions about yourself when all you do on a daily basis is shitpost and emotionally react to every self-criticism. I try not to bring up the negativity as I do not wish to burden others, and I really don't think they could help. There's just too many excuses I've created for my behavior and thoughts.

That's an interesting response to how you helped fix your problems. Unfortunately I'm rarely aware of myself, often just stuck in my head. What do you mean by carry the self-hate as who I am and what I do? As in use the hatred as a motivating factor, or be aware of how it is affecting me on a daily basis?