I'm a gay male, 20, from Houston Texas, probably one of shittiest places in terms of the attitude towards the LGBT community as it is highly, highly conservative, and beyond having a lesbian mayor for awhile, the whole bathroom issue has been the dominating discussion for a few months.
I have always vehemently defended LGBT issues to my parents when I'm home, and usually have good arguments, but whenever this bathroom issue comes up, I generally draw a blank, the conversations usually go something like.
> News Story about Lt.Governor saying perverts will rape kids just by saying they're another gender and then kidnapping a little girl or watching her use the restroom
> Parents usually agree with it
> I defend the issue by saying that is a non-issue, it hasn't happened yet
> They bring up the dead horse issue of a 50+ year old man walking into a bathroom and either molesting or watching my niece who is 5 as of this year
How do I address this concern with my parents? Personally, I'm having a hard time myself believing that making trans people happy by letting them use a different bathroom outweighs the risk of putting mroe children at risk, (I think it's arguably fair the boys are currently at more risk of being molested by men than girls are by being molested by women) by allowing more access to them.
Pls help?
Picture is unrelated in every way I just didn't have anything relevant
>inb4 sassy trans people start talking about how no children ever get molested ever and how their system is infalliable and will destroy the evilbad genderroles that make pedophiles exist
You could bring up a dead horse reply of having a 50+ year old priest molesting 5 year old for no reason outside of bathrooms. The issue they are concerned with transcends bathrooms. (The bathroom portion of it is irreverent)
All that aside, I am interested on people's thoughts about locker rooms.... not to steal the thread.
Those already have teasing issues in schools... Gyms are more civil, but empathetically I even wonder if a person transitioning would want to see so many people of their representative gender... it may be off putting. On the flip side, it may be therapeutic.
Who knows really... still, fun to think about.
>>6218803
Obviously the law didn't protect your niece, and the new law isn't going to protect her either. Furthermore it doesn't protect young boys either, which is something many of these high horse moralists forget. All this law does is infringe on the protections and freedoms of tax paying transgender citizens. You would also impose the same law on visiting foreign nationals that have already changed their gender. This isn't good for the international image of the US as a beacon of freedom and human rights.
The same form of arguments have been used against African Americans in the parts, similar arguments, implying that white America needed protection against uncivilized black America. This is pure nonsense. If your parents don't want to be seen as artifacts of a darker backwards time then they should reconsider their views.
To sum it up: Transgender people aren't child molesters, child molesters are child molesters. They're not going to stop committing crimes because you harm the civil rights of honest tax paying citizens.
>>6218891
That is to say: if the argument was rephrased to something like "what's next, locker rooms?", I think most people be at a loss for words at the moment.
So it is both fun to think about and is "worth" thinking about.
>>6218930
Right but that ignores the heart of OP's issue, which is a question of if the benfits of making trans people more comfortable outweigh the risk of exposing more little girls to the more likely male pedophiles?
>>6218803
I'm not a transgendered individual, so I can't necessarily speak for them.
However, I always thought of this argument being countered by asking, "Are you worried about a woman entering the bathroom and doing something inappropriate with your daughter? Just because a person isn't biologically born female doesn't necessarily demoralize them, there's plenty of naturally born women that will have no problem kidnapping, molesting, or even just watching a little girl using the bathroom."
Not to mention, if you should naturally be nearby the kid anyways if they're so vulnerable.
Otherwise, you can always retaliate that any parent who leaves their kid alone in the bathroom and figures, "Whatever happens, happens." Probably should be arrested for neglect of a vulnerable child.
Just agree with them, the issue has nothing to do with you.
>>6219018
So the trans argument is "well children will be raped anyways who cares" now I get why people hate their kind
>>6219045
But it does have to deal with OP's niece, and any other children in his family, right? So technically it is his issue to be concerned if the chances of the female children in his family have more of risk of being sexually assaulted because a man wants to be a woman and piss or shit in a specific bathroom
>>6219054
No, it doesn't. His niece doesn't fucking matter when it comes to me feeling comfortable in my own god damn skin.
We need 5 different bathrooms honestly. Thats all.
Male/ FTM, Female/ MTF, Disabled, Family and an all purpose.
I don't see why this is hard.
Money?
>>6218803
call me crazy cause i am but isn't it the same problem with forcing everyone to go to their birth assigned gender bathroom? what about trans man? they would be forced to go to the bathroom with said little nice and they look manly af. see pic.
imo they made a problem out of something that wasn't a problem before. bad people are every where, no matter what gender. people have to look out for their children anyway or at least they should. but i think it's safe to say that you can quite easily tell if someone really is transgender or not. because even in case of 50+ they put effort in the way they look and care about it a lot. and if a man with a beard steps into a womans bathroom i think it's quite obvious he doesn't belong there.
>>6219046
Children are naturally a vulnerable selection, don't you agree?
I've seen plenty of horror stories about killers who have done terrible things with children (not that it is my only viewing interest, but right now it is the one thing that I'm finding most appropriate for this).
They don't change their gender for molesting kids, they just take them.
Hell, there's even stories about kids kidnapping kids and murdering them.
Shit happens, you can look at it and be all pissy about it, but if you do nothing on your end to protect your kids like watching over them, accompanying them, and just protecting them... then when something happens, you can't be screaming out loud, "Transgenders!"
>>6218946
The question wasn't ignored. If you read the answer you would understand that changing civil rights for an entire group isn't going to give protection against crimes. It is already illegal to molest children and people still do it. The bathroom bill has no basis in reality.
>>6219175
Yet again, I don't think anyone is adressing the point here, that NOBODY IS BLAMING THE TRANSGENDERED PEOPLE, rather that a few certain things are true here
> 1.) Men are more often rapists
> 2.) Allowing Transgendered access to other sex restrooms means more men can get access to female restrooms under the legal guise of "I'm transgendered you can't stop me"
> 3.) Pedophiles (straight ones) get unheard of access to female children who are not always expected to be supervised
How do we address that, or is the solution simply "it happens who cares" like >>6219046
>>6219202
You're ignoring the issue that women are also capable of atrocious crimes. If a man molests a child under the guise of being transgender he is going to jail all the same. Men do enter kids bathrooms and commit crimes. Please provide a single case where a man molested a child under the pretense of being transgender.
>>6219234
Yes, but it happens more often with males than it does with females, if you want me to source dump on this I'll do it, but it should be a pretty well known idea that men tend to commit sex crimes towards children far more than women
>>6218803
firstly, 99.9% of trans people are just there to use the washroom, the thing about trans people being predators is completely made up, there are probably a higher percentage of cis predators
secondly, you've almost certainly shared a washroom with a passing trans person without knowing it at one point, people only get upset about non passing trans people
and thirdly, perhaps the most important point:
if trans people have to use the bathroom of their birth sex, this means FTM trans men are going to be using the women's bathroom
FTM men that look just like any other dude
literally any guy could walk in there saying, oh no its ok im FTM
??????
this whole thing is based on false and harmful stereotypes that trans people are only unpassing 50 year old crossdressing biker men
i dont understand why people think that suddenly all the pedophiles are going to start strolling into womens bathrooms, raping kids and getting away with it by claiming they're trans.
its very very thinly veiled transphobia
"sorry its not anything against trans people! i know its a mental illness and they cant help it so im not being intolerant or anything... its just that if we let them have their way then the moral fabric of society will fall apart! children will be getting raped left right and centre!
again, i have nothing against trans people its just that i am concerned that they might cause more sexual assaults on minors somehow."
Is it weird for me to use the disabled toilet as a transperson? I don't feel comfortable in the male or the female one.
>>6219245
How many times do people have to say that we aren't worried about the actual trans people
And not the man who dresses like a female to look at women in a bathroom/dressing room
As for the passing trans people, if they look so much like the sex they want to be then there qould be zero reason to need a "bathroom bill" if nobody could tell what they had between their legs
>>6219271
not weird, i do this too
>>6219243
Yes. Source dump all the incidents where a MAN commited crimes under the pretense of being TRANSGENDER. I already asked you once for this and shouldn't have to ask twice.
>>6219325
And how exactly would that happen en masse when it isn't legal yet?
I offered to cite that MEN were more PEDOPHILIC than WOMEN
OP here, what the fuck happened
@transphobes - You are making almost no sense
@transsupporters - Why are you so angry? I'm asking to understand what I can say to combat this TO FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS TOO
Jesus what is it with he lgbt communyty just devouring itself on every issue
>>6219401
States where legislation prevents discrimination for trans people re: public accomodations:
California, Connecticut, Colorado, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maryland, Maine, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington State, as well as the District of Columbia.
More than 200 cities and counties also explicitly prohibit gender identity discrimination even if their state does not.
>>6218803
Well, there are also homosexual pedophiles. Who would rape children of their same sex.
But this argument cannot be used, because people will start demanding that homosexuals use other bathrooms.
Thinking about it...
They should have two all inclusive bathrooms.
One for under-aged people and one for adults. Problem solved.
>>6219401
It isn't going to be legal after either. It's already legal for a trans person to use the bathroom and has been since forever. Post your dump where people have used it as an excuse to molest kids.
>>6219444
I'm not sure you can fight against people that do not want to listen to any sort of reason and respond only with emotion. Well you won't get far before you end up where you started at any rate.
No one feels listened to, everyone is hostile and no one can do anything about it. It isn't about trans people, I think this is a societal condition much greater than that. As for arguments, a few have been made if you read up.
>>6218803
>implying a bathroom law against transpeople would do anything to stop the perverts in the first place
>>6219444
Simple, you're posting on 4chan, the ocean of piss where 50% of the posts are trolls and the other 50% are folks trolling said trolls.
>>6219457
In addition, Massachusetts public high schools have already had the pro-trans bathroom rules for five years
>>6219172
Hey, that's my buddy Michael.
Cool dude.
His wife does good tattoos.
as for OP:
>>6218803
Tell your parents that perverts have been molesting children since children were invented and allowing someone to use a bathroom to take a big fat shit isn't going to put anyone anymore at risk than they already are. If someone wants to rape a child in a bathroom, they're going to go into the bathroom whether it's under the guise of "being transgender" (which is fucking stupid) or just waiting for someone to not be paying attention so they can slip in unnoticed.
>>6219956
While it is stupid, humans have done a lot worse.. come on.
>>6218803
You can tell them that they wouldn't have this problem if their governments had made it easier for transgender people to have legal recognition and get their official documents changed. But since the backwards politicians they vote for refuse to offer any legal recognition for real transgender people, they have to make their identity itself a legal precedent and legislate it at the local level because the overwhelming majority is against them. You can tell them that it's the conservatives' fault because they have actively worked to dismantle our healthcare and morally mandate us out of existence. You can tell them in actually civilized countries that support transgender people, this bathroom bullshit is a non-issue. Ideally, transgender people would be able to get the legal recognition they want and predators wouldn't be enabled to exploit that recognition, but conservative lawmakers in this country have actively worked against that.
Also this bathroom bill stuff is eerily similar to gun control logic. People are afraid of psychos getting guns and shooting people so they wanna ban all guns or prohibit concealed carry. It sounds good on paper, but in practice it only clamps down on law abiding citizens while actual criminals continue being criminals and still have access to guns. A 'no guns' sign isn't gonna stop a mass shooter from going on his rampage, neither will a 'females only' sign stop a rapist from walking into the ladies room.
>>6218803
It's not like someone is going to be raping a kid in a bathroom and when the cops come they have to let the rapist finish and go free because they say they're a tranny.
Molesting or peeping on a child or anyone else in the bathroom is still illegal barring some recent exceptions of cis women being peeped and barged in on by people making sure they weren't trannies.
If you or anyone really honestly cares about protecting children then you shouldn't be leaving them unattended in bathrooms where they could meet a strange adult, otherwise it's just lying and using children to cover for bigotry.
>>6218946
And there's no actual evidence for that "risk" besides emotion-driven fear mongering.
>exposing more little girls to the more likely male pedophiles
So it's fine as long as the male pedophiles are just raping little boys and the female pedophiles are raping little girls? We have more evidence of conservative religious and political leaders harming children than we do of trannies or people pretending to be trannies, why not ban them from public bathrooms first if protecting children is what you REALLY care about and you aren't just lying and using children to put a friendly face to your bigotry?
>>6219172
This SO much.
Bigots would still sperg out about "protectin muh wimminz!" over a trans man using the bathroom they insist they be legally obligated to use and there have already been more cases of butch cis woman being kicked out of restrooms and even assaulted in the name of rooting out the trannies, it's purely an excuse for bigotry.
>>6219287
Did you even read that anon's post or did you just ignore the part that clashed with your argument?
>FTM men that look just like any other dude
>literally any guy could walk in there saying, oh no its ok im FTM
>As for the passing trans people, if they look so much like the sex they want to be then there qould be zero reason to need a "bathroom bill" if nobody could tell what they had between their legs
Wait so now you're just denying that passing trannies exist?
Look up buck angel.
>>6218803
I think I can help. >>6220130 is on the right track. There are two main issues with this situation. The first is that unfortunately, your parents arnt technically wrong, in that people,mainly children, may be hurt. On the other hand, the bathroom laws as proposed also put another group of marginalized people at even greater risk.
you could frame it as "making trans people happy" or, alternatively you could say its about keeping them safe. I think there are enough statistics out there that you can demonstrate the vulnerability of that population.
You could turn this whole argument around. I mentor alot of young trans girls and boys. The youngest is 15. The idea of asking her to use the mens washroom freaks me out and brings all of my protective maternal instincts up. SO in a way I get where your coming from.
I wonder if instead of thinking about your niece you could think of how these laws effect that 15 year old girl? How does that change the emotions of the discussion? The bottom line is that if we were to use those laws she would also be forced into the same situation as your niece.
Both options suck. This doesn't have to happen. We can do a better, kinder job at making these laws.
I hope this helps. and thank you for having the talk with your parents and being real with us.
Because this doesnt happen, Guy assaulted a girl in chicago not that long ago, in a womens bathroom, in a restaurant, he was also not trans, nor dressed as a woman,
This law cannot protect because bathrooms dont protect, its a fucking room.
Enforcement is also insane, the 3 options are
Nothing happens
civilians take up arms with their tranny dar that only hits dykes
literal potty police state
BTW even with these laws, pervs and pedos can claim to be FTMs, get fake IDs. Although all that is insane because of the belief that someone who is going to rape someone is going to be stopped.
>be pervert rapist man
>enter women's bathroom
>woman sees me and freaks out
>claim to be passing ftm
>then rape her of course
this is just as big a deal if not more than the "guy pretends to be mtf" that people obsess over, yet none of the legislation people propose seems to do anything about it at all.
