While it is true that gender and sex are different things, and that gender is indeed a social construct, sex isn't the Ultimate Biological Reality that transphobes make it out to be. There's nothing intrinsically male about XY chromosomes, testosterone, body hair, muscle mass or penises.
op is a fagot
Woah so revolutionary...
>>6218652
this is true fax, sex is a spectrum as well not because muh special snowflake but because litterally this is how evolution works retards, mutations means you can end up with any of those at a time and still be otherwise completely "female." in other words the categories of male and female are a convenience, and biology is not obliged to express those things according to our perceptions.
all that aside.
iwtcird.
>>6218652
nice desu, u finna start a shit storm tho
If gender was actually a social construct there would be no need for transsexuals to exist.
>>6218652
Gender is inextricably linked to your birth sex.
FTFY
>>6218900
How come no one thinks women in men's clothes is mental illness?
>>6218652
Sex and gender mean the same thing in two different languages, one comes from latin and one comes from french, both use genitals to classify humans not muh feels.
>having a functional penis = male
>having a functional vagina = female
>having both = dysfunctional human being.
>having sexual organs that don't work = dysfunctional human being
>insisting to be called the opposite of what your sexual organs indicate = mental illness
>"There's nothing intrinsically male about XY chromosomes, testosterone, body hair, muscle mass or penises."
Male - of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring.
Male is a word used to classify a category of people, if you produce spermatozoa aka you have a functional dick then you're a man, if you don't then you're not. Sorry.
>>6218652
>While it is true that gender and sex are different things
How?
>>6218943
People with functional brain cells do. The tom boys I've known have always seemed to struggle with shit like depression and suicide.
>>6218943
You can wear whatever you like, it won't change your sex/gender.
>>6218958
>How?
Anthro/Social Psych 101. It's a useful definition. "Sex" refers to biological sex: chromosomes, genitals, and gonads (which can sometimes become scrambled in various forms of hermaphroditism). "Gender" refers to both/either psychological and social identity -- every society identifies two essential genders corresponding to biological sex, but some societies have a "third gender" (in certain parts of India, for example) that go back thousands of years. Moreover, some societies require homosexuals to change their gender identity to compensate -- Iran is an example.
So plenty of societies independent of the modern Western LGBT movement have had various interpretations of social gender identity independent of biological sex going back centuries or more.
So again, for expediency, academic shorthand is that "sex" is biological and "gender" is psychological/social.
>>6218951
>>6218652
>http://biologyclermont.info/wwwroot/courses/oldlab2/old%20m2%20geneprob.htm
>Sex (It’s a Phenotype, Not a Chromosome!):
Uh, chromosomes actually don't determine sex though.
It's gene products, all the nessecary and sufficient ones being autosome gene products.
Someone who's medically transitioning wouldn't make gametes or have working organs, ergo not male or female.
>>6218951
Certainly you dont want to ignore medicine just because you dislike it, right?
It's verging on illness if you say you know better than all doctors.
>>6219024
>Someone who's medically transitioning wouldn't make gametes or have working organs, ergo not male or female.
Ergo dysfunctional human being. FTFY
>>6218678
Sex is not a spectrum, that's autism.
>>6218652
Gender like many words can have multile meanings. The gender used to legitimize the trans condition is biologically linked to sex dimorphism. The social construct is linked to expression and societal roles.
>>6219099
kek
>>6218951
That's partially correct. Sex in biology is determined by the size of the gametes where the female of the species has the larger gametes. However the composition of chromosomes and outward characteristics do not determine the sex. They only offer clues, very good clues, but they're just guesses.
>>6218652
Whoa whoa whoa
This is waay too grounded and understanding for a 4chan board.
Please re-post with something much more narrow-minded, angry, and divisive. THEN we'll argue pointlessly ad nauseam.
Until then...uhhh....have a nice day, I guess. Wow, feels so weird to say that again.
>>6219016
I'm not asking this like some ignorant fuck, I was asking it because my language has literally no such word as "gender"
If you go on google translate and set it to English to Hungarian, it will bring up the word "nem" for both "sex" and "gender"
>>6219186
What fucking school allowed you to pass? If you had actually studied the material you're claiming to know you'd realize the relative nature of the arbitrations we ascribe to the phenomena of this existence. Helpful in a very immediate sense? Sure. Absoluste and immutable? No.
If we're splitting hairs about the 'life' of this planet i.e. the only examples we have where such arbitrary classifications can be placed, then
1) chromosomal composition absolutely determines the sex of the critter of study; it's called genetic sex
2) genotype determines phenotype. Called phenotypic sex, which ARE the outward chracteristics that, if we are considering the mircales this universe produces as wretched bacteria and mere machinery allows the functional aspects of a living organisms biology to happen.
They don't determine shit. We do. They just are.
3) Gamete size has dick to do with sex determination. That's conditional to what you're referencing, which is obviously humans or at the very least other sexually dimorphic animals similar to folk. Leave anthropocentrism behind and search out what you really are.
I hope this was a troll, but i wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if it wasn't.
Keep studying.
>>6219381
That's because the Hungarian language was not corrupted by these special snowflake tumblr-types, here in US they even destroyed basic words like "marriage" in order to include their degeneracy.
>>6219036
Which isn't really male or female cause no gametes
>>6219381
Maybe check out a Hungarian university anthro's department website's selected papers or theses, if any are in Hungarian that cover modern societies?
Alternatively, you could just email a prof at one of said universities and ask for what words they use for sex and gender in academic discourse. Profs are really responsive to such quick easy and sincere questions. As someone interested in languages, I'd be somewhat interested in the response as well.
>>6219410
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18348162/
>http://biologyclermont.info/wwwroot/courses/oldlab2/old%20m2%20geneprob.htm
>Sex (It’s a Phenotype, Not a Chromosome!):
Seriously, you wouldn't pass a first year genetics test.
It's all gene product, all the essential ones autosomal that determines sex. Chromosomes are just Mitotic structures.
>>6219583
Exactly, they are dysfunctional humans with no gender, we should stop referring to them as male/female and just call them broken people or maybe "agendered people".
>>6219497
Like I said, the distinction between sex and gender in academic parlance goes back decades before even the internet, and the recognized social distinction in many societies goes back centuries.
>>6219024
Sex (i.e. biological, and let's please restrict this to humans) has multiple definitions, usually one or a combination of raw chromosomes, genes expressed, gonads, and genitalia -- if these conflict at birth it is usually called hermaphroditism. SRS and hormonal transition are obviously never classified as changing one's biological sex.
i agree with OP anyone who doesnt see it as such really needs an education and should really consider not being such a bunch of scumbags
you guys really need to open up your minds jesus christ atheists are such horrible human beings some times
Embryos start out with ambiguous genitals. Most of the time they differentiate, but sometimes they don't. Also relates to trans issues, somehow your brain goes one way but your genitals go the other.
>>6219741
>something something everyone who does not think like me is wrong and ignorant because I am the one and true holder of truth and knowledge
>>6218652
>gender is a social construct
when will this fucking meme end holy shit
>>6219741
>anyone who doesnt see it as such really needs an education
Or maybe trans people need a trip to Auschwitz? Just a thought.
>>6219760
Atheists, like all marxists, will accept your degeneracy and bend over backwards to please the minorities. They're a lost cause, literary 99% of them tolerate your existence as if it's something normal.
>>6219792
go ahead try to make fun of us but remember you will be on the wrong side of history and my views ARE the right views, they are the most moral and intellectual views whereas you just like to make fun of and hate other people cause your a nazi
>>6219922
You're like a walking stereotype holy shit
>>6219822
Transphobe cis scum i bet you are from the highest level of privelege, u have no idea what its like to grow up trans its even comparitivly worse than growing up poor in africa cause at leats you are discriminated against for being poor in africa
>>6219952
Man you were doing so good but this one gave you away. Cis scum and saying trans have it worse than africans really made you obvious.
>>6219683
>hermaphroditism
they use dsd now. Crinolines aren't very useful because they lack a causal role. They use qPCR, mainly of autosomes like Foxl2 now.
Just proves you don't know what they're talking about.
You do alter sex traits though, so some sort of pseudohermaphrodism is basically the what it is.
>>6219683
Gender stuff is stupid, mostly just an academic buzzword from pseudoscience fields like sociology.
Disgusting too. You're justifying stuff like rapey burly men changing their "gender" but not body and then perving on children.
>>6219683
>SRS and hormonal transition are obviously never classified as changing one's biological sex
You mean you do despite not having any medical education. If you're changing multiple sex traits you listed as key then how isn't that changing sex?
>>6219607
So... there's not a word for it, but there will be one soon because reasons.
>>6219922
look dude, or girl, or whatever the fuck you want to be called: I do not want to discriminate or other things that may trigger your tumblr ass but "being a bunch of scumbags" for "not seeing as such", where the subject is a completely subjective view (and dare I say not even fully correct, sorry but not sorry. Biology speaks for your ignorant ass here) of what is gender is going to give you so much trouble and bad feedback. And no, that's not white suprematist patriarchy that conspire against you, is called being a dick.
And having double standards.
where shit that you pull out your ass is true and shit other people say, irrelevantly of what ass they pulled it from, or because they ACTUALLY STUDY THAT SHIT is irrelevant because the almighty Eamon De Valera said "nu-uh, you're wrong".
Don't be so surprised when people like>>6219822 begin to be full of your pretentious and attention whoring way of exist and call for a new Hitler to sanitize the world of the plague of people that like to be LGBT and can't be at peace with themselves without pulling otherworldy and absurd bullshit on genders, panfluidhelicopterkin people and so on
>>6220117
I'm not them, and I think all this gender stuff is really stupid, but medical transition does alter most of the relevant biological characteristics for sex.
>>6220242
>>6220242
Yes, that's because of the hormone treatments in order to get the change.
Things like body hair disposition, higher testosterone or lack of this, mixed quantities of estrogen in puberty, eventual different hide/plumage color, different sizes, these are all Secondary sexual characters, and everything in the Metazoa (so even humans) reign that has diverged in binary sexuality has them. Except medusae and other things that now I can't seem to remember.
The fact is that Secondary sexual characters are totally distinguished from real sex as in the possess of gonads that can express meiosis and produce cells with a halved number of chromosomes.
You can have a dick and boobs. Certainly something is wrong with the "usual" course of your body's development, and maybe you identify as a wolfkin, but if your
karyotype says "xy" there's no way in the world that you are female because "Gender is socially constructed". You're male.
And we as me and (you) absolutely know that all this shit on gender is the same thing as "fat is healthy for you down with thin privilege", and all this shit is only a carousel for people that absolutely want some attention.
It is not being LGBT that angers normal people, is being a dickwad about it and asking the world to bend backwards and take a watermelon in the ass only to make you feel comfortable with yourself that angers "cis scum".
>>6218652
you're dumb and you're a negative influence on the way people perceive trans people, please leave.
Gender is biological fact, go away.
>>6220391
>karyotype
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18348162/
>http://biologyclermont.info/wwwroot/courses/oldlab2/old%20m2%20geneprob.htm
>Sex (It’s a Phenotype, Not a Chromosome!):
You're really an utter idiot. It's been known for decades that karyotype isn't responsible for sex development.
It's gene product and the only genes nessecary and sufficient for it, save for for the testosterone receptor coded for on the x are all autosomes.
Don't get the hormone signaling during utero or don't get a foxl2 transcript and you you'll get a male or female baby regardless of karyotype.
That's why they've been depreciated for diagnosis.
Talk about jellyfish all you want but you're making it clear you couldn't pass an intro level genetics curriculum.
>>6219948
actually i have been wheelchair bound my entire transistion so please have some respect for those who cannot walk, not hating on you though
>>6220391
http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943
>These discoveries have pointed to a complex process of sex determination, in which the identity of the gonad emerges from a contest between two opposing networks of gene activity. Changes in the activity or amounts of molecules (such as WNT4) in the networks can tip the balance towards or away from the sex seemingly spelled out by the chromosomes. “It has been, in a sense, a philosophical change in our way of looking at sex; that it's a balance,” says Eric Vilain, a clinician and the director of the Center for Gender-Based Biology at the University of California, Los Angeles. “It's more of a systems-biology view of the world of sex.”
>According to some scientists, that balance can shift long after development is over. Studies in mice suggest that the gonad teeters between being male and female throughout life, its identity requiring constant maintenance. In 2009, researchers reported7 deactivating an ovarian gene called Foxl2 in adult female mice; they found that the granulosa cells that support the development of eggs transformed into Sertoli cells, which support sperm development. Two years later, a separate team showed8 the opposite: that inactivating a gene called Dmrt1 could turn adult testicular cells into ovarian ones. “That was the big shock, the fact that it was going on post-natally,” says Vincent Harley, a geneticist who studies gonad development at the MIMR-PHI Institute for Medical Research in Melbourne.
So if you're done insisting inane ideas that haven't been credible in decades have to be treated over modern science cause your decree, you might want to remember:
Medical transition results in a loss of the ability to produce gametes. That means no primary sex. That means without it, it falls to the rest of the sex characteristics.
Better you stop prattling on about your cringeworthy ideas of "gender" laced in with highs hook level terms recall this is solely about altering body
>>6220592
You're obviously a false flag from pol, the fact you use the same hashes they do proves it.
Shoo, nobody is buying your sock puppet.
>>6220056
No... I'm saying I don't know Hungarian or the academic terminology of that language, so I'm suggesting you ask someone who does.
>>6219099
BTFO
>>6220039
The only sex trait listed that is remotely changeable is that of genitalia (gonads are only removable), and that is as you know not very convincing the hormonal way (clit into fempenis) and still physiologically crude the surgical way.
>>6220001
>dsd
Aright, sorry, DSD or intersex conditions -- it's been years since I learned this stuff and mostly in terms of model organisms. I did mention gene expression
>>6220777
Bullshit, metabolism, blood chemistry, histology, transcriptome and bunch of other traits are dependent on steroids and can be changed easy enough. You don't seem to know anything you talk about.
Find another way to argue cringeworthy gender shit.
>>6220897
None of which are used by anyone to *define* biological sex, which is why I didn't list them (and I specified I was only talking about those I listed)
>>6221074
Sorry, transcriptome being a measure of gene expression obviously is, but is mostly relevant to sex determination during development, ad since I've been talking about things like gonads and genitals I figured the assumption was that the human we're sexing was already pretty much born.
ITT: Pol-puppeteering and next-level b8
>>6218652
Did he say that? because it would be ironic as he got into a lulzworthy fight because he dated a tranny
>>6219952
Then move to africa, I'm sure all of those progressive africans will accept you with open arms. :)
>>6223143
EAT DA P O O P O O
>>6218652
he said quite the opposit though
>>6218652
you do realize that the guy in you top pic is for equality, right? he just makes fun of retard feminazis
>>6222223
I don't know what you're talking about :)
>>6223110
>http://biologyclermont.info/wwwroot/courses/oldlab2/old%20m2%20geneprob.htm
>Sex (It’s a Phenotype, Not a Chromosome!):
lol sure. Your ged course sure trumped all the basic college curriculum Contradicting you I see.
>>6223110
http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943
>These discoveries have pointed to a complex process of sex determination, in which the identity of the gonad emerges from a contest between two opposing networks of gene activity. Changes in the activity or amounts of molecules (such as WNT4) in the networks can tip the balance towards or away from the sex seemingly spelled out by the chromosomes. “It has been, in a sense, a philosophical change in our way of looking at sex; that it's a balance,” says Eric Vilain, a clinician and the director of the Center for Gender-Based Biology at the University of California, Los Angeles. “It's more of a systems-biology view of the world of sex.”
