I saw this post (pic) and it made me think, she has an argument in a way.
If I wear drag and tell people I'm trans, even though I'm not, does that give me the right to use whatever restroom/locker room I want? What if I dress completely male, act male, etc. but call myself female, does that make me trans?
I mean this in the context of court. Like what would get me in trouble for trespassing in restrooms I don't belong in, and what wont? Is there/has there been a guideline put forward?
Bullshit PS
To me, it's completely irrelevant who uses what bathrooms because human sexuality greatly varies from person to person regardless to gender. The argument put forward in opposition to transwomen using women's restrooms is that sexual assault will increase. I believe that using the restrooms of the gender you're sexually attracted to doesn't raise anything, as evidenced by the fact that gays, lesbians, and bisexuals use the restroom too, and there's never been a homosexual restroom sexual assault pandemic.
>>6065748
She has the argument of someone who has no idea what they are talking about.
There are guidelines everywhere. In most countries, one only gets LEGALLY treated as the other gender when things such as CURRENTLY DOING TREATMENT or even SEX REASSIGNMENT SURGERY are done. Most of the time, it takes both of those at once.
That allowing transgender folk into bathrooms will result in bearded rapists in dresses going to the women's bathrooms to rape little girls is just the religious' fantasy. For some reason, those people are simply obssessed with rape.
>>6065788
Those stats are of people who identify as the sexuality. There is undeniably grey area there.
Same with trans people. Many don't transition, nor identify as any other gender than the one they were born with, despite possibly wanting to.
that's why we need ALL gender bathrooms where people can intermingle while they piss
it's the next step in societal evolution
>>6065748
She looks more masculine than most under-30 trannies.
>>6065871
kek
>>6065828
This is a good example of LGBTotalitarianism
Why should normies compromisefor the comfort of such a small minority in society when they won't compromise themselves
>>6065887
It's actually cheaper to make a single large restroom with full length, lockable stalls than to make two bathrooms.
Also a lot of places abolished gendered restrooms for other reasons than trannies, and they don't have epidemics of rape. At worst it's mild adjustment, and it make both men and women less likely to shit up the place like fucking pigs.
>>6065906
For apologetic purposes, what places have abolished gendered restrooms?
>>6065748
how much money, her beer belly republican husband told her to do this?
>>6066157
lots of college campuses. my school just built a new building and put in all gender neurological bathrooms. and ive seen some concert venues with them, and other places where progressive artsy types hang out. this is in seattle though.
>>6066240
By places I figured you meant countries or something.
>>6066157
It's mostly individual schools not, full administrations. Although afaik a lot of the craze for segregated restrooms came largely from the fact that women could now be lawyers or doctors and people deciding that it was too much and that women should have their own separate restrooms, less so because the women requested it.
>>6066249
Sorry, then.
British Columbia and Quebec seem to be racing to be the first canadian province to have fully unisex restrooms everywhere sometimes, but otherwise I don't think it's like, a thing anywhere at that level.
>>6065748
The problem is that transgender identities aren't legally recognized in a lot of American states, even if they've gone through hormones and surgery. Not only that but their healthcare options are limited thanks to radical feminists and neo-cons lobbying to ban or remove transition related care from private and public insurance policies. The federal ban on coverage for such procedures had been in place for at least three decades and was only just lifted one or two years ago. Even today, most insurance policies still refuse to cover treatments associated with GID/gender dysphoria despite the fact that most of the leading health organizations around the globe agree that it is medically necessary.
The bottom line is that this bathroom panic bs isn't as big of a problem in countries that offer treatment for gender dysphoria and legally recognize trans identities. The reason being that there is a well defined and universal system that transsexuals can go through in order to transition, both medically and legally. It isn't perfect but it's better than what we have here. Contradictory state laws, privatized healthcare and widespread social stigma have made the process a quagmire for trans individuals.
Personally, I think we should give up on the bathroom nonsense, focus mainly on discrimination in housing, healthcare and employment while working to improve healthcare coverage for transition related procedures, and make it easier for trans individuals to get their legal documents changed. Though I'm afraid bigots will clamp down on that too and hit us where it really hurts.
>>6066387
The rr is already going after trans kids and trying to use muh religion to get anti reparative therapy ordnances overturned.
>>6065887
From an economics standpoint, segregated bathrooms are inefficient. If all the women's stalls are occupied but not the men's stalls, then a woman must wait to piss when there is a free toilet in the next bathroom.
>>6066157
Here in seattle there is an ordinance that all single-person public restrooms must be gender-neutral. Being single-person, dicks and vaginas couldn't co-occupy one in the first place, so that was an easy win. But my school has several gender-neutral multiperson restrooms.
>>6065748
Diagnosis/medical transition
>>6066399
Reparative therapy on minors is child abuse, period. Clinically speaking, it's completely ineffective and only worsens the patient's mental health. Ideally, the medical community should step in and call these lawmakers out on their bullshit.
>>6066765
oh man thats good those always bothered me because they're entirely pointless
i probably have severe autism
>>6065748
this entire discussion seems idiotic to me desu like people can say whatever they want but there's like no preference
someone who wants to go into a women's washroom to harass women will do so regardless of whether or not it's allowed, and it's not like trans friendly places have been having trouble with perverts
like remember this bill is being added not changed, there's no precedent to suggest a need for it.
>>6065748
How pathetic don't you have to be to make such a picture?
Attack the most oppressed and victimized group of people, of modern time, in the first world (and maybe 2nd world too). While being yourself, a highly privileged individual, who has never had to face any issues.
What's worse, this is an adult.
Apparently never got out of the high school mentality... Will probably die a complete loser.
>>6066194
She's probably just retarded, and has been coddled her whole life, by a rich daddy.
There should only be one bathroom for everyone to use. Holy crap...Donald trump is the only one who gets it.
>>6065748
>I saw this post (pic) and it made me think, she has an argument in a way.
She also looks like a tranny with a botched nose job, sooo...
>If I wear drag and tell people I'm trans, even though I'm not, does that give me the right to use whatever restroom/locker room I want?
She's not saying men will impersonate "real" trannies, she's saying even the "real" ones are men. And she's definitely entitled to think that, but once you give idiots the green light to play gender police, they'll undoubtedly target more masculine-looking women (like op). So good luck with that.
Also, it's true that the various legal constructs around "gender identity" are nebulous and highly flawed, but that's sort of the point: they're meant to protect a vulnerable group from various forms of institutional discrimination (employment, housing, medical access, access to education), not define the boundaries of that group. You could come up with one of these stupid, derailing "Yeah but is X a 'real' Y?" scenarios for any legally protected class. (But again, all that is besides the point since she's saying trans women = men, not that men might hypothetically impersonate trans). In truth, most of the "bathroom laws" conservatives are targeting have fleetingly little to do with bathrooms in the first place. It's simply an image, meant to tap into and provoke all these deep-seated cultural anxieties about sexual and gender variance. Sexual/gender variance as reproductive terror, an existential threat to children and the nuclear family. It was the 'gay agenda' a generation ago, now it's trans bathroom panic. Or,
>Trans: I just want a fucking job
>Republicans: BUT THINK OF ARE CHILDRUN
>>6065748
>At what point is someone legally defined as trans?
Well it's a medical condition so it's when they're diagnosed although the underlying biological causes exist before diagnosis obviously, but I think you may be asking the wrong question for what you're looking for.
The question that you seem to be getting at more is at what point trans people should be recognized as the gender they identify as which is more a matter of personal opinion and legally is something that varies from place to place and is a bit of a hodge-podge of policies with respect to what can be changed/recognized for name, licence, birth certificate, etc.
> mean this in the context of court. Like what would get me in trouble for trespassing in restrooms I don't belong in, and what wont? Is there/has there been a guideline put forward?
The trouble with any attempt at a guideline is that they are largely unenforceable or fail to work correctly like cases of cis women being kicked out of restrooms because someone thought they were a tranny. I mean how do you check? How they look/sound? I.D.? Birth certificate? Designated genital checker? Having to wait while they mail out dna to be tested?
There already are drag queens and kings and gender non-conforming people who crossdress without being trans and I'm honestly surprised that you're not aware of instances of cis people using the other restroom like women using the men's room at busy events when the ladies' room is full. Gender neutral bathrooms exist in many places without incident and ANYONE who goes into a bathroom to break the law with assault or rape or whatever is already acting in violation of the law without any bathroom laws that just cause confusion.
I mean even if you did implement a law to control who can use what bathroom do you really imagine that someone who would be willing to break the law to assault or rape someone would consider it going too far to pass the invisible bathroom line that says they're not allowed?
>>6066964
>While being yourself, a highly privileged individual, who has never had to face any issues.
Gee. Sounds like a jelly MTF tranny that wants some of that womans privilege.
>>6067070
>>Trans: I just want a fucking job
Says the tranny that resorts to porn, camming, prostitution or all 3
>>6067105
Because they can't get a job clearly.
Self employment in a field basically anyone is qualified for if they're 18 or over is an easy option.
Although prostitution is stupid when camming is a thing.
>>6067105
Are you an idiot?
That's all that's left to support yourself when more legitimate businesses can fire you for your medical condition.
People only want trannies to exist when they want to fuck them.
>>6065748
>I believe that using the restrooms of the gender you're sexually attracted to doesn't raise anything
this is irrelevant because its not about sexual attraction. people oppose non-passing trannies in the bathroom for one of two reasons; a) trannies are all perverts, b) trannies are men, and men commit the vast majority of sexual assault. its not unheard of to hear of a man arrested for sneaking into a women's stall to take lewd photos of women or to masturbate while they use the toilet. women know that. men know that. women want to be able to tell men in drag to get out if theyre skeeved out. no one wants to be stressed out while they pee or poop. if i saw a confident hulking tranny coming into the women's restroom id want them out too.
>>6067125
Seems to me that the 'idiots' here are the trannies who sell their bodies online or off and expect there to not be consequences for that choice.
>>6065748
Clothes don't make you a footballer, but playing football does, practicing piracy makes you a pirate and taking female hormones makes you a female.
Dumb bitch can't think past clothes.
>>6065783
>She has the argument of someone who has no idea what they are talking about.
angry tranny spotted
next time try using an argument rather than just screaming through your keyboard, hon
>>6068661
>putting on a dress is "being female"
nice try, but that's completely wrong
>>6068674
Did you even read the post?
>>6068686
>doesn't have a counter-argument
What a big surprise.
>>6068620
>trannies are all perverts
what is your definition of a pervert?
and why do you believe they are perverts?
>trannies are men and men commit the vast majority of sexual assault
By that logic, it would be entirely understandable to not allow homosexual males into the bathrooms as well. Seeing as a large portion of people think we are either a) all perverts and b)child molesters.
Well I for one am uncomfortable going to the bathroom with the fear of getting my ass beaten for something I a) didn't/would never do and/or b) have no control over.
Sure, no one wants to be stressed out while they pee or poop. But no one wants to be afraid of walking out on the streets for the very real instance of getting their ass beat by intolerant troglodytes.
If it bothers you that much, take your children to the family bathrooms until you feel they are old enough to go by themselves.
>>6068734
>what is your definition of a pervert?
>and why do you believe they are perverts?
i was talking about people in general, not myself. read slower next time.
>>6068753
>if i saw a confident hulking tranny coming into the women's restroom id want them out too.
in conjunction with
>people oppose non-passing trannies in the bathroom for one of two reasons; a) trannies are all perverts, b) trannies are men, and men commit the vast majority of sexual assault.
gives the implication that you aren't entirely disagreeing with them.
explain yourself.
>>6068661
Taking female hormones does not make you a female holy shit.
>>6068909
>muh elementary school level biology
>>6068971
your post gave me cancer
>>6068909
Learn the difference between genotype and phenotype dickhead. Throw in a little endocrinology while you're at it. If I can remember and find this post again tomorrow I'll explain to you point by point why you're full of shit.
>>6068986
Good riddance
>>6068971
Is there just one retarded tranny sitting here 24/7 making this post, or are there a whole bunch of people that honestly think being male/female is some ancient religious belief?
>>6065748
OP all this does is make the case for gender neutral bathrooms and changing rooms.
>>6065748
It doesn't bitch. Transition makes a man into an intersex person, who chooses to present as female.
And will go into the female bathroom just like all people with ambiguous bodies that pick whatever restroom they want.
>>6065748
I love that she got all dressed up and got out the washables markers and craft paper just for this
Does she have a job?
>>6068661
>taking female hormones makes you a female
Not really, because the female hormones you're taking are synthetic or naturally derived from plant/animal based sources.
It's not like they're harvesting female estrogen from human female bodies. The hormones you're given aren't really human female hormones.
>>6069122
I'm surprised when people think that some ancient and heaven-sent eternally identical male/female physical binary absolutely always exists in every person who is ever born.
But then again I always assume the people I'm talking to are educated, open-minded, and try to look at the universe as objectively as possible. I'm often disappointed.
>>6069636
Bio-identical estrogen is called that for a reason. Estrogen is a chemical. Nothing is so magical about estrogen from human women that it can't be reproduced in a lab.
People really need to de-mystify themselves.
>>6069647
ftms and mtfs can't change their chromosomes
therefore they're still the sex they've always been born
>>6069658
>>6069636
I thought it just caused the body to make that particular hormone wtf are you on about? otherwise we would turn into plant people... DUH!
Is she uncomfortable seeing someone else in that dress?
>>6065748
fyi legally, anyone can go in any bathroom (except in NC) The signs just tell you whats in them.
>>6069658
>ftms and mtfs can't change their chromosomes
Chromosomes aren't the magical be-all, end-all of human sexual development, nor do they always correspond with what you would assume they do based on your apparently cursory knowledge of human biology. There is a difference between genotype and phenotype, like the other anon said, and since practically nobody has their chromosomes tested throughout their life, practically no one knows what the fuck chromosomes they have for sure. They can only assume, for the most part, until they get them tested.
>http://www.isna.org/faq/y_chromosome
>It is true that in typical male development, the SRY gene on the tip of the Y chromosome helps to send the embryo down the masculine pathway. But more than the SRY is needed for sex determination and differentiation; for example, women with CAIS have the SRY gene but lack androgen receptors. In terms of hormone effects on their bodies (including their brains), women with CAIS have had much less “masculinization” than the average 46,XX woman because their cells do not respond to androgens.
>Moreover, the SRY gene can be translocated onto an X chromosome (so that a 46,XX person may develop along a typical masculine pathway), and there are dozens of genes on chromosomes other than the X and the Y that contribute to sexual differentiation. And beyond the genes, a person’s sex development can be significantly influenced by environmental factors (including the maternal uterine environment in which the fetus developed).
>So it is simply incorrect to think that you can tell a person’s sex just looking at whether he or she has a Y chromosome.
>>6068661
I love this argument, because it gives perverts like Chris-Chan, Bruce Jenner and Stefonknee as much credibility as transwomen as Calpernia, Janet Mock, and Laverne Cox.
Lol so is she a beaner?
>>6069982
Trying to deny womenhood to shit tier trannies causes serious problems with feminism.
Looks like a man? Whats wrong with masculine looking women? Fuck your beauty standards.
Acts like a man? Who the fuck are you to tell women how to act?
Has fetishy behaviors? Whats wrong with a little kink and excitement? Women have to be sexless and boring so as not to offend you?
Now we could say fuck feminism but in a non feminist society a qt 3.14 trutrans who wants to be some dude's wife gets hung from a tree after her secret is found out. Although maybe she gets raped first by some rednecks and then hung.
>>6069658
Neither can people born with XY chromosomes who have complete androgen insensitivity syndrome, but I guarantee you'd call those people women too ya daft motherfucker.
>>6065748
>soccer mom
>conservative
Didn't see that coming
>>6065748
I'm a woman, and a sexual assault survivor. I don't give a fuck about transwomen using the girls bathroom. men need to stop piggybacking the expirences of battered women to further their sexist agenda.
i want to hatefuck this woman to death with my boycunt
>>6072779
Hahaha, you thought Cathy Brennan was a man! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Poor Cathy you old girl xD
>when the TERF is just right
>>6070113
Like how a male to female transsexual transitions from male to female, if she moved to Mexico shed be an American to Mexican.
How can she not see that????????????
>>6071363
NOOOOOO those are just RARE exceptions that prove the rule and don't count even though they're about as common as trannies, WHY DO YOU DEGENERAT TRANNIES BRING UP COMPLETELY UNRELATED BS YOU DON"T UNDEARSTAND TO PROVE YOUR DELUSIONS REEEEEE!!1111!!!!!!!
>>6072779
But all of those courageous white knights need to protect you from the big scary men dontcha know.
Op again.
I propose another scenario;
What if I, a man, tell people I identify as a woman, use the women's restroom, and sexually assault someone?
If they can't prove assault took place, and if I technically say I identify as female, am I Gucci my nizzle?
Has it happened? Don't think so, but can it?
All everyone's told me is that guidelines would defeat the purpose of preventing discrimination towards trans persons, because some people who, for example, reject hormone therapy or something else similar in nature normally done by trans people would get discriminated against if such a guideline existed.
>>6078548
*rejects
