>"YOU CAN'T GET ON PUBERTY BLOCKERS AND TRANSITION BEFORE PUBERTY, YOU COULD REGRET IT AND KILL YOURSELF!"
>mfw there are hordes of adult trans people that regret not starting sooner and hate their own bodies because of what puberty did to them
>mfw there are trannies that have attempted suicide because they felt they were trapped by the irreversible effects of puberty (the same type of horrific nightmare that they fear cis kids getting trapped in)
>mfw they get mad at unpassing trannies for being ugly and making them uncomfortable in their "spaces" when they're responsible for leading them into that state (Looking at you, neo-cons and TERFscum)
>mfw they try to use the suicide stats that THEY help contribute to with their bullshit as some sort of proof that we're all crazy and how our treatment is wrong
Why do cis people do this?
>puberty blockers are entirely reversible while actual puberty isn't
>allow for more time to be know you're sure about HRT
It's really weird
But muh natural fallacy
But muh nature tho
>>5946594
More like natural phallicy, amirite? :^)
>>5946555
They don't want you to succeed.
>>5946555
same reason adults in general don't:
1. trust
2. acknowledge the feelings of, or
3. take seriously
anyone under the age of 20
adults are ageist.
>>5947119
>tfw 21
>tfw my parents still think I've just been confused by some conspiracy that invented the trans "fad" (not to say there's no such thing as transtrenders)
yaaaaaaasssss
>>5947218
why don't you just wait a few years and see if it's still something you feel strongly about
>>5947248
They haven't even told me that. Probably because I told them I've already felt this way since at least as far back as 8 years old.
>>5947258
you're just socially awkward you'll grow into yourself just give it time
>>5947279
You've got me choking to death, anon. I don't think they've even thought that one up.
This thread should be pinned forever
child abuse.
blockers are COMPLETELY unstudied. shit's dangerous as hell
>>5947317
intentional = abuse
unintentional = negligence
the effects of MSG aren't fully understood but that shit's in like most American food
>>5947317
>COMPLETELY
Yeah, nah.
>http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2809%2962807-0/abstract
>https://www.washington.edu/news/2016/02/26/transgender-children-supported-in-their-identities-show-positive-mental-health/
>http://www.sciencecodex.com/medical_intervention_in_transgender_adolescents_appears_to_be_safe_and_effective-114120
>http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958.abstract
I'll tell you what's dangerous as hell: letting a kid with intense and persistent dysphoria go untreated throughout adolescence all while stigmatizing their condition and actively working to morally mandate them out of existence. Fact: Adult transsexuals that aren't treated before puberty have a 45-60 percent chance of suicide attempt. Those that reported anti-trans bias in their daily lives from either their peers or families were among those with the highest risk of suicide attempt.
People like you are making this worse.
>>5947377
wow, look at all the double blind clinical trials you posted about puberty blocking drugs!
>aka none
lupron is dangerous shit and giving it to kids is abuse. hell, forcing kids to pick a team is emotional abuse to boot
>>5947470
>hell, forcing kids to pick a team is emotional abuse to boot
Picking it for them is worse.
>>5947470
If the effects of blockers are, in your own words, "completely unstudied", then why are you so adamant about how dangerous they are? Do you know something the medical doctors who treat these kids don't?
>>5947539
yep.
http://lupronvictimshub.com/
>>5947470
Do you even know what a double blind study is and how it would work for trans patients?
>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/myths-about-transition-regrets_b_6160626.html
>One problem with medical treatment (and obviously surgery) for transsexuals is that blinding of studies is not possible. It is immediately obvious whether a participant received treatment or not, substitution by placebo will not work for obvious reasons. Clearly, all sex reassignment studies thus fail the gold standard. The next issue is including a control group into the study. This would require to properly diagnose transsexuals, making sure they meet the requirements and indications for sex reassignment surgery, and then to randomly split the participants into two groups — one receiving surgery and one not. Clearly, both groups have to be large for the result to be statistically valid. Then you could measure quality of life of the participants and compare the groups at intervals of several years. That’s the theory, anyway.
>In reality, you would find the pressure transsexuals find themselves under grow so much that a large part of the untreated group commits suicide (Haas, Rodgers, Herman 2014) or seeks treatment illegally or abroad. This makes such a study highly unethical, it would never get the okay from an approvals body! You simply cannot withhold treatment from a highly stigmatised group that has a prevalence of 42 to 46 % suicide attempts, compared with 4.6 % in the general population.
>>5947607
>one problem with actual science is that it doesn't support my political correctness
OK, lets give children dangerous drugs based on muh feelings. I'm sold.
>>5947470
>forcing kids to pick a team is emotional abuse to boot
Yeah just like all those trans kids who are forced to live as a gender they aren't
>>5948405
what part of "pick a team" are you failing to grasp
are you dense
>>5948381
Actually it has less to do with political correctness and more to do with medical ethics. Cute strawman tho. Here's your (You).
>>5948471
there are well defined ethics for trans kids, and puberty blockers are a last resort, not the go to option. Many clinics and therapists completely flout said ethics, and in the process, abuse these children, with terrible consequences.
like it or lump it, that's what's going on these days.
>>5948495
>there are well defined ethics for trans kids, and puberty blockers are a last resort, not the go to option
And fundies still vehemently oppose those standards, which winds up hurting the kids that actually need help. Even the doctors that came up with the 80% desistance meme used puberty blocker on kids with actual dysphoria. No one here has said that blockers should be the go to option, the first choice is therapy, after that it's whatever.
>Many clinics and therapists completely flout said ethics, and in the process, abuse these children, with terrible consequences.
Source? Which clinics? Where? Most clinics that treat this group will have their patients undergo a lengthy screening process before medical intervention is considered.
>>5948591
see for yourself, dude. it's rampant.
http://retransition.org/
having the strength of a male is nice time to time
>>5948633
>http://retransition.org
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262734734_An_Analysis_of_All_Applications_for_Sex_Reassignment_Surgery_in_Sweden_1960-2010_Prevalence_Incidence_and_Regrets
The regret rate is 2.2%.
In fact just starting the regret rate is higher at the start, but eventually declines over the years.
Tell me more about how 2.2% of transpeople who regret means that we shouldn't allowed transgender people to transition because
MUH BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!
>>5946555
>>5946571
>I want to be a cute kawaii anime girl
>I'll self-regulate my body's hormones and prevent me from developing into a functioning adult
Look, I really don't mind people doing this. I used Adderall despite not having ADD/ADHD as a mental performance enhancer. Dudebros should be able to use steroids if they want to. And people should be allowed to shrivel their dick, grow some tits, and prevent puberty if they feel like it.
Let's just not dress it up as some sort of protected class that needs special accommodations to do so. Furthermore, lets not force taxpayers to shill out for your skittles if you're on a subsidized health care plan.
>>5949617
>Let's just not dress it up as some sort of protected class that needs special accommodations to do so.
Or, given that trans people are known to suffer extensively from a neurological issue that is only alleviated by medical intervention and living in a manner that is widely socially reviled and often makes them visibly distinct from the general populace for at least some time, let's completely ignore that sentiment because they fit the criteria of a class needing protection, and require said accommodation.
>Furthermore, lets not force taxpayers to shill out for your skittles if you're on a subsidized health care plan.
Let's instead do exactly that thing, since trans people who've undergone transition are known to contribute staggeringly more to the economy than trans people who have not, who are known to experience a disproportionate rate of poverty thus necessitating that subsidized health care.
Thanks.
>>5949659
lets cut off the hands of those that steal from others
>lupron
Ceasing production of ALL sex hormones, testosterone AND estrogen, is a great way to kickstart childhood-onset schizophrenia.
>>5949684
Studies?
>>5949663
Banks don't even have hands, silly.
I was simply a child who never had the courage to ask to be a girl
>>5949841
>tfw iktf too well
>tfw my parents are as conservative as Ebenezer Scrooge's budget, but had I said something as young as I started feeling different they might have relented
>tfw no way to know if it would have worked, but "you miss every shot you don't take"
>>5946555
This seriously needs to be stickied. Or made into a standard response given to every troll that comes around.
>>5947119
>adults are ageist.
No, it's that anyone under 20 is stupid.
>>5955252
The problem is that at 20, those who still want to transition have been fucked over.
>>5949684
Honestly this would more likely result in the longer bones seen in castratos and not schizophrenia, but that would be;
>implying you didn't pull this fact out your ass
>>5947470
>>5947582
>>5949684
You keep citing lupron as the only antiandrogen while there are many different kinds with many different pathways of inhibition; from receptor antagonist to a spectrum of synthesis inhibitors. Disregarding the supposed dangers of lupron, which can easily be substituted with another antiandrogen. The rest of your argument on denying people the treatment for gender disphoria is completely unfounded and goes against the findings of the WHO and American Psychiatric Association's DMS-5, riding only on your merits of meme-posting and cherry picked opinion articles.
>>5955470
*DSM-5
>>5946555
Because messing with hormones is legit dangerous and could lead to unintended consequences. Stunting someones growth will have negative effects on their physical health.The ultimate goal for a helping transgendered people shouldn't be changing their sex, but becoming comfortable with their body on a case by case basis. Transgendered people are pressured to always take the most drastic approach to solving their problems when its not always the ideal choice for the individual.
>>5955580
GnRH analogs don't stunt anyone's growth. The opposite in fact: natal females become taller than they otherwise would be.
>>5955609
but it does contribute to a decrease in bone density, and even with taking measures to counteract that there are serious concerns of it leading to osteoporosis. And of course there hasn't been significant studies as to how it effects the development of a persons brain, which as you should be aware lasts into the mid 20s. Rather than let pharmaceutical companies profit off disadvantaged and desperate people by peddling under-tested treatments use some common sense. Until serious medical trials are conducted on how they effect the development of the brain it is irresponsible to suggest them.
>>5955709
>as to how it effects the development of a persons brain
Why just the brain? There are other important factors to consider as well.
Also: let people take some fucking risks for fucks sake. Life isn't about being safe each and every second of your existence.
And lastly: pharma companies hardly make any profit from trannies, there's just not enough of us for it to pay off.
>>5955709
Considering hormone blockers are only used on kids that are very likely to end up trans, the possible risks could end up being easily overridden by the definite benefits, depending on the unique situation. Studies would be great and I hope they get done, but to take away the only treatment for trans people this young because we just don't know is stupid. If I was a parent, I'd take unknown risks over my kid being miserable and sudicial for certain because I'm making them go through the wrong puberty.
>>5955580
But a majority of them are already forced to "wait it out" and most with actual dysphoria wind up transitioning later in adult life with a laundry list of mental health problems because they were neglected for so long. They seek treatment later in life only to be greeted by a society that actively works to demonize and marginalize them at every turn. The cripplingly high suicide rate for trans people that are either untreated or treated after puberty doesn't make society's approach look very good. Even the doctor that led the studies that used the "wait and see" approach and cropped up the 80% desistance meme used puberty blockers on kids with actual dysphoria.
The fact is that if you have a kid with legitimate gender dysphoria and you leave that kid with no support or medical intervention until adulthood, they will grow up with serious issues and their risk of suicide will be dramatically increased. It's no different than taking a normal cis kid and deliberately modifying their body without their consent and forcing them to live as the opposite gender until adulthood. Just look at what happened to David Reimer, that kind of horror is very similar to the kind a legitimate trans person will face throughout childhood and adolescence if they are left untreated. The suicide rate shows that the results are largely the same as well.
>>5955709
Within two years of being started on sex hormones, bone density of GnRH treated children catches up with normal children.
As for the brain: we know trans people who don't receive treatment aren't pictures of perfect neurological health either, so I don't see your point. Treated children at least seem happier.
>>5955734
I specifically pointed out potential effects on the developing brain first of all because it has significantly less study than other side effect and takes much longer to get an accurate picture of things when dealing with the brain, and secondly because problems with the brain can cause harm to the person in many different ways be it impared motor skills, seizures, learning disabilities or many more potential problems.
People are free to take risks but they should only do so when they know what those risks are so they can make an informed decision.
>>5955799
As long as the doctor is upfront with the parents and kid about long term brain development being unknown, that's still an informed decision. You can't call someone uninformed if they know everything there is to know at the moment. People should still be allowed to decide for themselves if unknown risks weigh out the known benefits.
