Just curious, what are your opinions about transgender children? What minimum age do you think there should be for that decision? I'm mad at the parents and doctors after watching the Louis Theroux documentary about it.
>>5922356
12-13 for hormones
18 for surgery
>>5922356
Blockers around 12, HRT at maybe 15-16 with doctor's permission, SRS at 18 if they want it. But social transition can begin at an even younger age since it's basically non-medical, if a 7 year old or even younger wants to wear dresses they should be allowed to.
>>5922408
>social transition
do you mean like just acting out of gender norms or claiming to be of a gender different to your sex?
>>5922356
Not only is it fully reversible and given only to adolescents, but they also only get irreversable hormones at the ends of their teens.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1474442210701824
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885#pone.0016885.s002
And the science says they do far better than untreated.
>>5922356
>The College was founded in 2002 by a group of pediatricians including Joseph Zanga, a past president of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), as a protest against the AAP's support for adoption by gay couples.[1][2] The group's membership has been estimated at between 60 and 200 members
>The American College of Pediatricians argues that mainstream health organizations have taken public positions based on their own social and political views, rather than the available science.[10] To this extent the American College of Pediatricians has vehemently condemned the American Psychological Association as a “gay-affirming program” which “devalues self-restraint,” and supports “a child’s autonomy from the authority of both family and religion, and from the limits and norms these institutions place on children.”[11]
These are the sources you're using. Sounds really credible m8
>>5922356
>The Southern Poverty Law Center has referred to the ACPeds as a "Hate Group", describing the American College of Pediatricians as a "fringe group" with "a history of propagating damaging falsehoods about LGBT people, including linking homosexuality to pedophilia" which closely collaborates with NARTH.[14][11]
>Writing in response to an ACPed brief, the American Civil Liberties Union similarly referred to the ACPeds as a fringe group which has acted to promote "unscientific and harmful 'reparative therapies' for LGBTQ students." [15][16][17]
Seriously, what kind of imbecille do you have to be to hold these guys up as the truth while insisting the mainstream doctors are evil.
>>5922356
SON OF A BITCH!
That picture's really funny, OP.
I think there shouldn't be a minimum age for GnRH analogs (puberty blockers) at all. If you have the cash or insurance is willing to pay for it, go for it. But they should definitely be started no later than 11 in natal girls and 13 in natal boys, given the opportunity. Social transition should also be started as early as some certainty is established. Estrogen should be given at 13 in natal boys and testosterone at 14 or 15 for natal girls. Surgery at 18 for transgender adolescents that aren't suicidal, but 16 for those who are. That particular guideline I got from Jackie Green, who repeatedly attempted suicide up until she got SRS on her 16th birthday in Thailand (they'll only do it at 18 now). Despite starting estrogen at 13, she was still deeply suffering from dysphoria up until her surgery.
My views are probably pretty radical compared to most people, but puberty h. Also, I hope you realize that those of us that are transgender adults didn't just pop into existence as transgender adults. Many of us have onset from 3-8 and have felt the way we do from then on. There is a very good chance any transgender child you are dealing with will grow up to be a transgender adult. Especially since Zucker, the source responsible for that 80% desistance myth, was full of shit.
>>5922557
Worse then, you claimed something that didn't exist and then went on about how the medical community is evil for doing whatever strawman thing you talk about.
>>5922557
I mean seriously, claiming three year olds are the victims of an evil medical plot when instead it's just teens getting fully reversible and safe delaying meds isn't too bright. Sounds a lot like another deranged crusader who said he would save the babies.
>>5922441
Yes.
>>5922594
He's an imbecile, we've already had whole colonies full of imbeciles spamming the babies getting their dicks cut off meme and citing groups that call gays pedos.
Enough self important imbeciles. Especially deluded ones who talk about nonexistent three year olds.
>>5922574
I think the doctors and parents are scum for coercing pre-pubertal kids into transitioning. I did not mention any conspiracy for gay men to adopt kids to rape. Who is strawmanning, again? If I meant teens, perhaps I would actually mention that?
>>5922620
>>5922620
>doctors and parents are scum for coercing pre-pubertal kids into transitioning
Stuff that never happened. Just cause you want your three year old dicks stories to be true doesn't make it so.
Literally the only ones who back your conspiracy theories are the gay=pedo crowd.
Now they do let adolescents with body dysmorphia get fully reversible delaying treatments. But that isn't forcing and they can go back to normal at any time with no consequence.
Go back to your imbecile colony and preach your tinfoil there, shoo!
I'm ok with letting them do what they want and encouraging them to explore. I don't think they should be pushed in one direction or another. You can always detransition if it doesn't work out.
Didn't know that I actually think all gay people wants to rape children, cool. What is the youngest recorded transition, if I'm just a conspiracy theorist? Are all the kids shown in media CGI?
>>5922651
Guidelines ban anything for children who haven't reached adolescence and even then it's a reversible delay of a year or two.
You've turned that into doctors cutting off toddlers. You're literally reposting the same stuff the gay=pedo posters did.
>>5922673
>taking a comic mocking the logic behind these parents in a over the top way literally
Do you think I just admitted that I think all gay people want to rape children too?
>>5922702
With your over the top conspiracy theories? Yeah, never explained how reversible and save meds for adolescents where they can always go back to normal count as what you claim.
We've already had half a dozen threads like >>5891430
They all cite a fringe group that's explicitly claimed all gays are pedophiles. You talk exactly like the other gay people want to rape children posters.
>>5922408
how many times do i have to explain that blockers equate to nothing less than the anti-androgen aspect of HRT in trans-girls (and as an anti-estrogen in trans-guys so they don't grow boobs).
blockers ARE hrt. they're just not cross-sex hormones.
>>5922739
Well, if you won't actually address anything I've said and just point at other people that has nothing to do with what I've said, I don't see the part to continue to replying.
>>5922507
PUBERTY BLOCKERS ARE USELESS IN KIDS WHOSE PUBERTY ISN'T IMMINENT
THERE IS ZERO POINT IN PUTTING A 7/YO ON THEM YOU FUCK HEAD
THEY WON'T BLOCK OR EVEN DELAY A PUBERTY IF THERE ISN'T A NATURAL PUBERTY TO BLOCK OR DELAY
>>5922763
You've already been given links to medical sources say it's nothing is done till adolescence and then it's 100% reversible.
You keep shouting that it's not true and that we have to accept your conspiracy theories with todlers. Say something that isn't tinfoil for once.
>>5922771
True, puberty does not start at that point, however, there is a ramping up of testosterone and estrogen in the period that comes before puberty that sets the length of limbs. Inconsequential mostly, but something you could block if you care to. Puberty does not suddenly start.
>>5922774
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVmau1cM5TU
These are the people I am talking about. Even if it is reversible, you still will be affected by it. I did some things as a kid that certainly would get these lunatic parents to try to coerce me that I was trans. There isn't any dysphoria to treat in these cases, it's just "um... I like pink and my parents told me this".
>>5922791
being a trans-woman i don't mind my height at all. it's something that runs in my family and was evident even in my cis sister at a young, pre-pubertal age.
the broadness of my shoulders is my biggest bone structure insecurity and that only really fully hit me at 17.
sorry for getting shouty it's just, i err more towards the earlier stages being inconsequential. if a doctor assesses you as having precocious onset of puberty, trans or otherwise, that needs to be tackled as the distinct condition that it is, not necessarily under the banner of starting physical transition earlier. sure it's semantics but if we stick to it and point out that it's the same standard practice for dealing with precocious onset of puberty in cis people, maybe we can more effectively shut down fearmongers.
>>5922806
eww, i hate it when anyone describes anybody as belonging to a "community" based on what we are rather than the values we choose to live by.
there is no such thing as a transgender community just as the notion that all cis people are part of a single cisgender community is bullshit.
i'm trans but i only speak for myself, and don't expect anyone to treat the word of a single other trans person as being spoken on behalf of myself.
it's repulsive.
eww
fucking identity politics i swear.
>>5922806
You're an imbecile. The doctor haven't done anything to those five year old and there isn't anything they could do even if the guidelines allowed it.
It's just parents playing dress up and the doctors would only intervene if the kid starts to suffer. Check the guidelines on Luporelin. Never realized just how utterly worthless NBC was, glad to see they're going under.
>>5922356
blockers at about 10 if they've had years long history of gender abnormality
hrt at 13-16
surgery at 18
>>5922806
oh sure, those parents are "pushing" that kid into transition.
dude seriously?
"confused and concerned"
"she she she"
do those sound like the kind of parents pushing being being a trans-boy on their daughter?
>>5922855
So then OP hallucinated even that?
>>5922874
they even said "way too soon" for medical intervention and does OP really think that in the 8 years between that kid socially transitioning to when they would get medical intervention, that the parents would force them to stand by their decision and go on chemicals to physically change?
if anything that's 8 years in which to rigorously assess the situation and make absolutely sure that it's what the kid wants to do.
coercive libtard parents are such an over-egged boogeyman.
my sister was aware of what being trans was at 8 years old and asked her mum "mum? am i transgendered?" cause she realised she wasn't like the other girls. but by the time i got round to asking my sister about what she knew of being trans, she had decided that no, she was definitely a girl. and yes i was a bit cheeky and was like "are you sure" "yes" "but are you sure you're sure?" "YES" "so you're not a boy then?" "NO i'm a girl" "ok, cool". and back she went to wearing blue clothes and playing with lego, as a girl.
>>5922904
Uh, >>5922855
The parents didn't want the kid to be trans and still refer to her as a girl.
Once again you want us to ignore the very sources you gave and replace them with your alternate reality. You keep proving yourself a tinfoil nut with each post. Medical intervention eight years later would be fully reversible though. Not even relevant in your video.
>>5922916
why are you telling me that? fuck, could you read my comments again and realise I'm not OP but someone who was arguing the point against OP?
>>5922831
It's not height I'm talking about, I'm talking proportions of your body parts to each other. Height can be cut short by estrogen at levels seen in puberty and thereafter.
>>5922755
I know what blockers are, but HRT generally refers to estrogen/testosterone plus AA.
>>5922356
Not childhood.
I did some pretty feminine stuff as a kid. Played with barbie dolls, pretty sure I got my mom to use her makeup on me once
And I did grow up to be a fagget but I like being a dude. Wouldn't want shit I did as a kid to affect what I am later in life because thats stupid.
>>5922620
>doctors and parents are scum for coercing pre-pubertal kids into transitioning
I don't think you remember how the conversations with the parents and the doctors went in that Theroux documentary, anon.
>Father: There are two things you can do here I mean you can, as a parent, there are two things you can do here. You can be in denial, which to some degree we were. You can say and we can fight it. We could say, "No, this is not the way you were born. You were born a boy and force that down that path." And there's a good chance Nikki would have conformed, to some degree, for a period of time. Nikki would have become an adult, and this happens all the time, right? Where people become adults and really still feel this way. And then they learn to transition as adults. life is a lot harder, in my opinion, when as parents, we fail to see that. And I see this as protecting the life of my child in a way, in taking that right fork, and that's why [sic] I justify what I've done here.
>Louis: I guess what you're doing here that's a little different from some other comparable places is doing interventions relatively early. Is the risk there that you know, they may get it wrong?... That a child may not, may think he or she knows who he or she really is, but then five- ten years on having taken the interventions, may change his or her mind?
>Female health professional: Is it a risk? Let's call it a possibility. So with that possibility, then we think the most important thing is the same exact idea. To find out who you are and make sure you get help facilitating being that person then. We have one risk we know about, the risk to youth when we hold them back and hold back those interventions, depression, anxiety, suicide attempts, even successes, and if we can facilitate a better life by offering those interventions, I weigh that against the possibility that they will change later, but they will be alive to change. So that's how I weigh down the scales.
>>5922620
>>5923125
Also, the kid in this photo you guys keep thinking is being coerced is not. They're just shy in that one photo. If you actually look at the article, the photos, and the video, they are happy. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2043345/The-California-boy-11-undergoing-hormone-blocking-treatment.html It's literally just this one photo where they look like they're being "coerced," and wow, it's just shyness of a child at having their picture taken for a news agency! What a shock, it's unbelievable, to be quite honest!
No, anon, none of that was coercion at all. Coercion was my entire environment, religious, academic, and familial all telling me I was wrong for wanting to be a girl and trying to get me to be a normal boy. Here I am, an adult, and I still feel the same as I did as a child.
>>5922356
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3257682/Father-transgender-six-year-old-family-s-battle-accept-Joe-Lily.html
>parents think their 18 months old kid is transgender because he likes pink
>>5922356
Honestly, people should be able to identify as the other gender no matter what age. But i think you shouldn't be able to do gender surgery or take hormones until your in your late teens.
>>5922408
This
Here to add, I knew exactly what I had to do when I was 12 years old after I saw a 40+ yr old trans woman and her cis partner in public...
Started HRT at 15 without approval of parents and continued till 18 -- got the boot.. Went legit at 18.
Being at odds with your body is pretty fucking frustrating when people want you to continue developing further away from what you want to live the rest of your life as. This is why kids throw themselves into traffic.
>>5926243
>DailyMail
