Anti Androgen
GOD TIER:
Lupron Depot
Orchiectomy
HIGH TIER:
Bicalutamide
MID TIER:
Spironolactone
SHIT TIER:
Cyproterone Acetate
DHT:
GOD TIER:
Lupron
Finasteride
Bicalutamide
MID TIER:
Dutasteride
SHIT TIER:
Cyproterone
ESTROGEN:
GOD TIER:
Estradiol Depot (Injected)
Estradiol Valerate (Oral)
MID TIER:
Ethanol estradiol
SHIT TIER:
Creams
Patches
What the FUCK are you DOING tier:
Premarin
Prostereone:
HIGH TIER:
Micronized Progesteron
SHIT TIER:
Provera
>tier lists for medications
trannies are fucking nuts
>>5888941
You couldn't be any more wrong lol
>Pills before gel/patches combined
>spiro before cypro
Kek
>>5888941
how does bicalutamide affect DHT?
>>5888965
Here comes the Cypro shills from communist land.
>>5889002
Residually.
>spiro mid tier
>spiro above any other AA at all
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""no""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
>oral pills
>better then patches and gels
0
>>5888959
this
Not going to say anything about trans people, but this is literally retarded to make.
what does dht do?
>>5889143
It activates androgen receptors just as testosterone does, but with a stronger effect. DHT is dihydrotestosterone.
>implying patches do anything.
>>5889162
lmao right?!
>>5889151
DHT is responsible for all male pattern hair.
You forgot:
== Estrogen ==
SHIT TIER - Estradiol hemihydrate
== Forms of delivery ==
GOD TIER - Injections
HOBO TIER - Pills (Sublingual)
OLD HON TIER - Patches
CHRIS CHAN TIER - Creams
HOLY SHIT WHAT ARE YOU DOING TIER - Pills (Orally)
>>5889264
There was an AMA with an endo on here a while ago who said categorically that for transition, sublingual is trash. The meme came from turbohons getting advice from menopause and PCOS forums. It's useless delivery for transgirls
>>5888941
Finasteride>durasteride? What, are you worried about your precious neurosteroids? Go big or go home lass.
>>5889306
Durasteride, to match 5mg of Finasteride, has to be at least 1mg, which is the maximum most insurance pays for, and at that dose you're foggy and fatigued almost always.
>>5889305
I want to see that study/discussion.
>>5888941
>Bicalutamide
how the hell is this high tier?
>>5889311
You got it wrong, 0.1mg of dutasteride is as effective as 5mg of finasteride. And more 1mg fin is a waste. Dutasteride also suppresses more scalp dht even when serum levels are matched, but it's debatable whether anything but serum matters
>>5889305
yeah i know that sublingual is garbage since saliva destroys pretty much everything in that pill but i have no access to injections because i am not as rich as you. delete your shit thread, this is pointless
>>5889365
Too bad there's no archive anymore. Not that I know the thread that anon was talking about.
>>5889305
if he was right, there should be some study to back it up.
there isn't much info on this either and all I can find are info from studies on postmenopausal women
>>5889376
It has no serious side effects beside the obvious soft dick. But only fetishists and straight men in dresses worry about that.
>spiro
>above anything
Enjoy your cognitive impairments dumbfriends
>Spironolactone significantly impaired selective attention and delayed recall of visuospatial memory, and diminished set shifting/mental flexibility on a trend level.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17035932
>>5889529
wait what? why wouldn't everyone want fewer side effects? and soft dick is a purpose, isn't it, not a side effect?
>>5889538
That's the thing, it has NONE.
>>5889534
You don't know how to read journals.
>>5888941
From how you type and what you say, you have samefagged in threads for a few days about medications with wrong information and misinterpreting facts. You have something against cypro and it seems like some sort of OCD fixation and trying to troll others by attacking what medication they take. This sort of fixation shit is so fucking common in trannies. I see it all the time when I lurk your shit. It's probably why you think you're trans, OCD is well known to do that. Reconsider your life honestly.
>>5889628
Please enlighten me master.
>>5889534
what if you want to be dumb
>>5889642
are you the retard that got schooled over not knowing about the T Surge when on Lurpon?
>>5889797
Go nuts then fampai
>>5889642
>trannies
Found the vegan.
Sorry Lupron-shill but I have to fix your embarrassing list for accuracy
SHIT TIER:
>Lupron Depot
GOD TIER
>Any GnRH antagonist
>>5890037
Oh dude it's the retard who thinks Lupron isn't intramuscular lmao.
>>5890044
No, I'm not him you cum guzzling asslord. If you honestly think Lupron is god tier you deserve to never pass.
>>5890077
Go back to Rwanda
>>5889305
>sublingual is trash.
>>5889388
>sublingual is garbage since saliva destroys pretty much everything in that pill
Both are WRONG!!! Take a look at the chart. I'm not sure what research paper it is from, but it clearly shows high blood levels just after taking the pills sublingually.
BTW, from 2 * 2mg Teva pharmaceuticals micronized estrogen pills a day, I have a 240pg/mL E2 level in my blood just before taking my morning pill. Looks like I need to drop another mg or two.
so.....how do I access the best of the best med prescripts from dr.goldstien?
>>5890693
*forgot to add
it doesn't matter which is what tier without listing the way to get them desu
This is definitely over-simplified, and inaccurate in many places. Androcur is, AFAIK as a prescriber who's worked in both Canada and the US [Where it is, and isn't, allow, respectively] just as good as Alcactone and tolerated very well below toxicity levels for most.
Just because one country's regulatory board flags a drug down [Like CPA in the US or Casodex in Canada] doesn't mean that it's universally terrible.
>>5892740
I have a new endocrinologist and I went from lupron injections and 2mg oral estradiol twice daily to 5mg medroxyprogesterone twice daily and .1mg patches that switch out every 3-4 days. Is my endo full of shit? I'm not seeing many results versus previously.
>>5888941
>cypro is shit tier
>fin is higher than dut
>estradiol valerate is high tier and no mention of estradiol hemihydrate
You've proved that you know nothing
>>5889264
Hemihydrate is better than eatrodoil valerate, dumb progynova shill...
>>5888941
Why do you rate cypro as shit tier? isn't it more effective than spiro?
>>5894966
because op has 0 idea wtf there talking about
>>5894048
It does seem an odd choice. Were you not tolerating the Lupron well? The switch from pills to patches for estradiol is understandable, if you're not bothered by the patches [many of my patients detest them], but I'm puzzled as to why he'd replace a market leading anti androgen with a progestin with androgenic qualities.
>>5894983
Mistyped my trip, gosh dang it.
>100 mg of spirolactane
>4 x 2mg's of progynova daily
Am I honestly wasting my time?
>>5895180
>spirolactane
yes
>>5894983
I have no idea, she just said the lupron is unnecessary now. Lupron worked amazingly for me. I like the patches (the small ones don't bother me, but the big ones freak me out. Also, Lupron is really expensive, but I felt so much better on it and my hair growth was abysmal if I even had any.
>>5895629
Well the concern I have is that she hasn't prescribed an anti androgen for you at all. And she's introducing a form of oral androgen to your body too.
>>5896343
Oh my fucking god. She told me that the medroxyprogesterone was a testosterone blocker, is it not one? Thank you so much for the help by the way, Endo-chan!
>>5896356
Well it's a progestin. Most endocrinologists will actually fight to not prescribe that because it is a verifiable link to breast cancer and no peer reviewed evidence of any help at all for transgender girls. And like all progestin a, it's a form of androgen.
>>5896529
Thank you so much. I'm going to have to get a new endocrinologist, mine must be an idiot. I knew something was strange with her. I'll try and get back on Lupron. What do you feel is the most effective form of estrogen? Considering my idiot of an endo gave me a prescription for these patches, I'm not sure how effective they are, if at all.
>>5896541
Lupron-Depot injections will stop T production.
medroxyprogesterone + estrogen will lower or even stop T production.
Patches are one of the best methods for estrogen. You might not have enough of them. I was on two .1mg ones at a time until my skin rejected them.
>>5896706
I'm on 1 .1mg one at a time. I won't need a blocker once I get SRS, right?
>>5896706
T production will return over time after cessation of Lupron Depot. It's why we use it for precocious puberty.
Patches are quite effective if you have patch discipline but many people don't tolerate them well. On the flip side, many people don't inject correctly either, so many endocrinologists will do their best to move you away from self injection.
>>5896727
Is .1mg for patches good enough? I'm pretty consistent in terms of keeping my patches on.
>>5896727
I inject estradiol valerate into my vestus lateralis. How do I know if I'm not doing it correctly?
>>5889141
Yeah, it's not like there's a whole industry out there for this, and doctors do it to get paid or anything.
>>5896747
It's hard to tell honestly. Your personal history, sexual activity, even your exercise and diet, can all impact your levels and what you need to maintain them. This is why quarterly bloods are so important to get done, because there's no right level for everyone.
Start out here and see how you are in three months. Remember that you can always pay for your own bloods whenever you like at your local pathology lab and it's often not very expensive.
>>5896751
Another loaded question I'm afraid! The standard responses which should be universal don't always apply. One patient I had was very stressed because she always had bleeding after she did her intramuscular estradiol, so she came in a few consecutive weeks to have my nurses do it. And lo and behold, blood every time. She was in good health, and her estradiol levels were good, she just seemed to buck the universal rule. And some people's bodies do that. Just make sure your needle is 90 degrees from your muscle, make sure you feel for your muscle and when you tense it, it's there, and practice good needle discipline. Make sure to depress the plunger slowly. Make certain to leave it in 15-30 seconds after you're done injecting the medicine. Pull the needle out cleanly in one motion and clean the area before and after.
Ultimately, your hormone levels and associated moods will tell you more than anything else.
>>5890529
>Well over the upper limit for the first 4 hours
That can't be healthy. Maybe you have to take more pill to achieve the correct level, but oral valerate has best, steadiest profile.
>>5896813
Thanks a lot, that's good to hear. I've been doing it for a couple years and have gotten much better and more consistent over time. I rarely get blood, if any just a speck. I feel the muscle, sterilize, inject, but haven't been cleaning after and just have been sticking a bandaid right on it. I will start cleaning afterwards though now. I used to have more oil leakage after I pulled out but I did start waiting longer before withdrawing the needle and it totally helped. Since I got better at it I've been feeling way more stable and gotten libido back, generally feel upbeat and still get breast pain and such pretty much every week. I don't feel that down from it at the end of the week either, although there is a difference for sure.
Another question, I'm switching from 200mg spiro/day to 50mg cypro/day soon. Is it proper to just one day take the spiro, then the next day take the cypro instead when someone switches? Or is there a wait period or ramping down/up or what not that is typically done?
>>5888941
> babby just got her first Lupron shot
> 67/4/26/1
The thread
Also:
> Orchi
Is your best bet against T. Shame that Thai doctors are so against it.
> Lupron & anti-cancer meds in general
They are designed to reduce your T to 0 while holding on to your balls just a little longer.
> CPA
Is used in anti-cancer therapy as well in 300 mg doses. If you took 300 mg, it would have the same effect on you as well. However the side effects are not worth it.
50 mg should be well enough to reduce your T to female level, which is all you need.
CPA is a weak progestagen as well, which increases your P if you combine it with another progestagen.
CPA is NOT designed to reduce DHT. That's why it's in shit vs. dht. Also that's what finasteride et al. (5-a-reductase blockers) are for.
> E
Everyone knows that Injectables > Sublingual > Oral >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Patch > Cream
Also that don't trust formulations.
> P
Micronized. Provera should be what are you doing category, because of the obvious side effects.
> Contraceptives
Should be off limits to trans women. There are so many easier, more painless ways to commit suicide.
>>5897245
You ought to be good to go from Aldactone to Androcur without too big a rectory period, especially taking into account the relative shortness of life of activation with Aldactone.
I'm not sure I see the need to switch from one to the other, but I'm also not privy to your blood work. Just be aware of the side effects.
>>5897327
It's mainly because of the side effects of spiro that I'm trying it out. If it turns out worse, then on to something else.
I self med but pay to get bloodwork done, since I live in a really isolated place with really bad trans care. But I still like it here too much to move away. Last lab showed my t at ~13.5ng/dl with 200mg spiro per day. Do you think it would be wise to do 50mg cypro/day initially and then after a month or two go in and see where its at, and adjust from there? Or should I maybe start lower than that since my T is so low?
>>5897352
50mg is the standard of care for transwomen looking to suppress androgens with Androcur, yes. With well suppressed testosterone, you might end up going lower, but because the mechanism of actions are different between Aldactone and Androcur, I'd be inclined to start at 50mg for a month or two at least. They're standards of care for a reason, after all!
Which side effects to Aldactone are you experiencing, if I can be so bold to ask?
>m-muh injections!
hon pls
>>5897487
The older crew actually prefer patches, because skin breakdown makes intramuscular injections more challenging in those 40+
>>5888941
>placing finasteride above dustasteride
Okay, that's retarded you fucking troll considering finasteride only blocks two out of three ways to synthesize DHT unlike dustasteride which blocks all three.
You fucking moron.
>>5897515
Playing devil's advocate, remember that no one drug is better for 100% of people. Dutasteride might seem more effective, [and in many cases, it is!] but some patients actively choose to switch to a different DHT solution simply because of the fatigue factor inherent with Dutasteride.
I'm thinking of switching from cypro to bicalutamide, but I actually want my cock to 'die' and not stay safe. But with less side effects this is a difficult decision for me.
Also, what is the standard dose for bica? I want to calculate how much it will cost approximately.
>>5897310
I am just spitballing here but if you bring your T levels down to female levels, there isn't much DHT to be produced from, right? I noticed that my DHT levels were in the female range the second month I was on cypro. Should I still get on a DHT blocker?
>>5897562
Feminizing effects as low as 12.5mg, with 50mg as a combined therapy or 150mg as a monotherapy the 'conventional wisdom'.
I say this, because there are no standards of care for Casodex for this purpose. And 150mg is a contentious issue, to the point where it was withdrawn from Canada's approval list.
It's generally well tolerated as a solution for transwomen, but it makes it next to impossible to measure the effectiveness via blood work as it doesn't active reduce your testosterone one iota: it just stops it being able to bind.
>>5896356
>She told me that the medroxyprogesterone was a testosterone blocker, is it not one?
if you spent literally 5 seconds on google you would know the answer. how do people like you survive?
>>5897588
et. al.
At least you seem to have a mature writing style, so help me, please.
Is Progesterone (in micronized formulations) good or bad for transwomen? My endocrinologist said it would stop any further breast growth (I don't expect any, since I'm already 2 years+ in), and that it could be used to promote uterine health (There is inconclusive data on whether I have an uterus. Most likely I don't.)
>>5897562
Then schedule The Surgery? I know how you feel, but stay strong. Unfortunately you need it for surgical material for your vaginal lining & clitoris.
>>5897577
If your T is well managed, you don't need a separate DHT blocker. But don't tell hons that!
>>5897385
>Which side effects to Aldactone are you experiencing, if I can be so bold to ask?
Mainly skin dryness (compounded by the fact that I live in close proximity to the arctic circle), muscle cramps at times, lightheadedness occasionally when standing up too fast. The cramps and lightheadedness upon standing decreased a lot the longer I've been on it, but still happen occasionally.
>>5896747
All depends on your body. I've seen people on 0.15mg to 0.25mg at a time. Generally the older larger patch was good for 80+/-20pg/mL per 0.1mg of patch.
This chart is for the older larger EstraDot/Veville Dot patches. I need to find similar for the newer patch.
>>5896835
The problem with oral estradiol-valerate is the liver breakdown components. They are clotting factors, and in over 40yo, and in some younger persons too, they can cause deep vein thrombosis. BTW, that is a possible problem at normal female menopause HRT amounts which are lower than used for transwomen.
>>5896835
It may increase thyroid binding globulin levels, which if you have a good thyroid is ok, but those that are hypothyroid may have issues. Generally adjusting thyroid dose works. BTW, ALL pills will increase thyroid binding globulin. For some reason patches don't. No idea on injections, but I'd bet they do too.
Then there is the issue of high estrogen versus progesterone levels causing thyroid issues, including, but not limited to increased thyroid binding globulin production. This is even seen in some natal women during perimenopause and menopause. Many transwomen have no progesterone.
I'm getting my balls out in a few months and I've been taking sublingual estradiol v. Also wanna get on micronized prog again. Anything else I should be doing?
>>5898497
>liver breakdown component
?
>>5898497
So if I want t get fat quicker I better take oral valerate and no dydrogesterone?
>>5898497
My endo doesn't see any benefit to progesterone, but is putting me on injection at one year. Have been on little pills till now.
>>5899325
To be clear injection of estrogen.
Ok do I actually need a dht inhibitor if im already on cypro? My t levels are 0.6 nmol/l if it matters
>>5896813
Concerning IM injections specifically progynon depot, does it matter how deep you pierce the muscle?
>>5888941
>Cyproterone Acetate - shit tier
Fuck. You.
>Estradiol valerate (oral) - god tier
Fuck. You. x2.
>Bicalutamide - high tier
Fuck. You. x3
>>5900758
supporting evidence or gtfo cunt.
>>5900769
>CPA 50mg
>TST < 0.6 nmol/l
>liver is good
>dick is down
Why not?
>Proginova
This is the shitest thing in my life - I had just 500 pmol/l of E2 on that piece of crap.
>Bicalutamide
>diarrhea
>nausea
>a high level of ALT and AST
>hepatitis A
>weight gain
Hmm... Why is that thing bad? Hmmph... Hmph...
>>5900889
You know that hepatotoxicity, is the reason why cypro is not approved in USA? And bica showed to be less harsh on liver, its cited as 'rare' side effect.
If you had such liver problems to begin with you probably should not take oral AAs at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrrky5Jg9D0
You faggots forgot God Emperor Tier
GENESEED FOR LIFE
>>5901134
I have not any problems with liver on cypro after 3 years =/
>>5903735
It's dose- dependent and liver can withstand a lot and regenerate while you are young and healthy.
The really bad (few fatal) cases of liver damage were reported in old (50-70 y/o) men who were on high doses (150+ mg) for cancer treatment.
If you are on high dose or ever had liver problems you should monitor it.
Could someone make a correct list please?
>>5903737
>Butthurt
I'm so confused after reading this thread. Should I just ask a doctor?
>>5889534
shit ive been taking it for over a year
more info like that?
>>5904140
Start from wiki, and it's sources. All this shit has bunch of adverse effects.
You'd want to take gnrh blockers or just do orchy to avoid them.
>>5904301
You can't have SRS if you have an orchidectomy.
>>5904140
Relax, it doesn't seem to be permanent.
>>5895180
same here. I dunno about you but i'd try to get injections as soon as i can cuz these are the best no matter what you take. But if you're like me and can't do that for either closet or financial reasons, i'd raise that spiro to 200mg but keep that 8mg of estro, i'd probably even lower it down to 6mg if i were you.
>>5904620
Is that your opinion as a medical doctor?
>>5904600
And the discussion about cypro was a hoax?
I'm a bit confused - DHT is for ftm transgender right? I never heard of it (I'm mtf) and just googled it leading me to this http://transguys.com/features/dht-transgender-men where it's described to be used for dick growth.
>>5904709
No it doesn't.
>>5904669
Cypro is dangerous.
>>5904695
DHT gives you male pattern baldness.
I just booked my chromosome surgery! I'm pretty exited. My doctor even said I could keep my y-chromosomes if I want, after they swap them out with X's and make me a real woman.
>>5904748
nice meme
>>5904783
found the Cypro shill.
>>5888941
so given all the hate for cpa it's use is a meme right? Nobody actually uses it right??
>>5904801
Nah mate. It's a joke because some poor countries still prescribe it and people from those countries get really virulent in defending it. But it's literally poison.
But cypro is good though.
>>5905033
nine meme
>>5905051
Of all possible argument that's the most stupid.
The rest of the world, which allow cypro, also have a profit-driven market. If there is not something particular to american that makes it more dangerous to them, then allowing it would give the same profit as elsewhere.
i was on indian flutamide for 4 months, shit was cash. kept my T down but my dick was still working so i could fuck str8 chasers in the ass
>>5905677
I was just at my doctor and he said something like it targets the brain more then say the testicles. So that's not smart because it messes with a larger system/area.
That's what I got anyway, I'm not a doctor
>>5904754
it also gives you beard and body hair
>>5905744
True.
>>5904742
)))
Does anyone know about taking licorice root to help mitigate the diuretic effects of Spiro? I am not very knowledgeable about biology, so reading about this is confusing for me. Thanks for any input!
>>5906823
just get on an anti-androgen tbqh
>>5905051
Except Spiro is far more dangerous not just from its side effects but from possibly fatal combinations with other common drugs like antibiotics or even potassium-rich food.
There were hundreds sudden deaths among old people who took Spiro.
http://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/news/common-antibiotic-taken-with-a-diuretic-linked-to-sudden-death/20067792.article
>>5888941
>spiro
>not god tier
Fairly sure everyone on this board is on the autistic spectrum after reading...
Also, the GOAT tier estrogen you're looking for is an implant. One every 6mos
>>5906823
Licorice is also a piss-inducer, but they balance each other out pretty well, but you need a lot of licorice, and it can't be dgl licorice because we want the "bad" chemical for this effect.
It's not good if you are using spiro on label though.
So what is the tier list for anti androgens
does everyone agree Lupron is god tier? or
>>5908854
Degarelix is also very good
>>5904115
Yes
this entire thread is a meme
I'm just starting HRT, my lupron injection will get here in like one week but my doctor also prescribed me 50 mg of Spiro, is that enough for the time being?
>>5908849
>you need a lot of licorice
How much? I take 150mg of Spiro everyday. I just picked up pic related, but I haven't taken any yet.
>dgl licorice
What is this?
>using spiro on label though
What do you mean by this?
>>5908849
Also if licorice is a piss-inducer, wouldn't that just magnify the diuretic effects of Spiro? This is one of the things that confuses me. Sometimes I read that licorice mitigates these effects and sometimes I read it amplifies them, and sometimes I read both (like your comment), and it greatly confuses me.
>>5908854
Lupron > Bica > Spiro > Cypro
thats what the endo who posts on here said
>>5908854
Lupron is like the old gen of GnRH blockers, good part is that you need less frequent injections which are painful and cause local inflammation (probably costs less too but I didnt check)
>>5909867
hrt is still pretty anecdotal. endos disagree on shit all the time.
we're pretty much still experiments because the studies mostly deal with old people. if it lowers T long enough before you get an orchie than its good by me honestly.
>>5909885
no inflammation with intramuscular lupron
>>5889151
Can I take these to bulk up?
>>5909867
swap spiro and cypro and ok
>tfw free monthly lupron shots
>>5912563
You and everyone else on medicaid in the USA.
>>5912563
gib
>>5913537
but I don't live in the usa
>>5913598
sucks to be you
>>5908715
Fuuuck, I'm scared now.
>>5909903
>hrt is still pretty anecdotal. endos disagree on shit all the time.
>we're pretty much still experiments because the studies mostly deal with old people.
This.
Do you need to take a blocker after an orchi or SRS? I'd imagine that since the balls are gone you wouldn't need them.
>>5910019
Dht doesn't work in muscles but derivatives such as anavar/winstrol do and won't make you go bald (as fast)
>>5917703
You shouldn't, adrenal glands will still produce some androgens but the levels will be so low it doesn't matter.
>>5917703
Yes, you need to.
>>5908715
>url with hyphen in it
Imagine shilling for cypro poison THIS hard
>>5888941
>went to Rite-Aid to fill my first legitimate estradiol prescription after self-medding for sixth months
>Was told insurance doesn't cover it (what the fuck?)
>Ask what the price is
>$79.99 for one month (60 pills)
>Hahaha, back to self-medding
>>5918416
that's fucking retarded
>>5918425
Yeah, it is, but I was mostly pissed about spending a little more than half an hour waiting for the time the woman told me to come back. I guess I'm not getting lupron like some other anons here. Anyway, as long as the insurance covers my blood tests, I don't care since that was my main reason for wanting to go legit. If this state allowed blood tests without orders from a doctor or I had a car to drive over to the state next door that does, I wouldn't even bother with a doctor.
Also, it was pretty disturbing when my endo who wrote the prescription the day before was asking me if the people in my life knew already, because he said he's had patients with wives and children "pull on their bras and panties" (his exact words) who were surprised when the people around them couldn't understand what they're doing and they end up losing their jobs.
>>5918416
https://www.riteaid.com/pharmacy/prescription-savings/rite-aid-prescription-savings-program
Ask for this. They won't offer it unless you ask for it.
>>5918416
https://www.riteaid.com/rx-savings-formulary
ESTRADIOL 2 MG TAB, $15.99 for 90.
>>5918627
Nope, there's no insurance qualifier so you can fill your entire prescription at once there if you want. You're paying for it out of pocket. You'll just pay more -- 30 pills is $9.99, 90 pills is $15.99. So $15.99 gets you 45 days worth.
>>5918416
Go to Walgreens and sign up for their prescription drug card. It's $20 a year. My monthly HRT is $10 for 6mg/daily Estradiol and $20 for 150mg/daily Spiro.
>>5918469
>he said he's had patients with wives and children "pull on their bras and panties" (his exact words) who were surprised when the people around them couldn't understand what they're doing and they end up losing their jobs.
What did he mean by this?
Protip: all DHT blockers are You're Gonna Have a Bad Time tier.
I got coverage for all the estradiol tablets I want but then switched to injections and was told compounded stuff isn't covered (in Ontario). What the fuck, man?
Cypro is hard on the liver but it's also really powerful and chances are you won't need a lot of it, and you'll only be on it until your orchi or srs.
But whatever, enjoy your salt cravings and chapped lips, spirofags.
To the people who self med here, how much does your lab work cost you? Where do you go for it? Quest? Also, do you at all involve insurance?
I ask because I have been going the "legit" route for years, and it is pitiful. Doctors know literally fuck all about tranny HRT, and I constantly have to deal with a whole added bureaucracy of incompetence for literally every little thing.
I got my most recent lab work done at Quest. I used my insurance, and paid $130 at the time of the testing for a CBC, metabolic, T, and E test. It's been nearly a month, and Quest legally cannot give me my results without jumping through a series of hoopes and consent forms and tracking down signatures, etc. (lol California).
Meanwhile, my doctor's office STILL hasn't even bothered to get my lab results from Quest, after which the nurse will have to consult a doctor about them, and then they will use my release form I mailed to them to forward the results to me.
Fingers crossed that they actually mail them to me as I have explicitly requested. Knowing their track record, they will leave out half of my most recent labs, and not bother sending me my previous labs that I also requested.
Furthermore, I just booked my next check up and it's a fucking month away since my doctor, actually nurse practitioners, only works TWO fucking days a week now. Even still, she's an idiot. I've had multiple complications with my HRT that she (and the last three NPs I had) knew absolutely fuck all about, and gave me horrible diagnoses and advice. Yet, when consulting online trannies, you all were WAY more knowledgeable.
Insurance doesn't help one fucking bit. Just $260 pissed away each month on fuck all. My meds are gotten through Walgreens prescription drug discount card, and my doctor's office works on a sliding scale that is downright free if need be. It's the labs I'm most worried about, as I have read some horror stories about pricing, and of course Quest doesn't actually disclose their prices.
>>5920197
explain why you say that?
Why do people say that oral and/or injections are better than patches? Gels I can understand, since dosing is basically YOLO-tier, but patches? You wind up with comparatively consistent hormone levels with only minor spikes. While patches don't work for *everyone*, injections feel far riskier in both application and in terms of E spiking heavily weekly/biweekly.
And oral being better than patches? Are you high?
>>5896706
Whoa, whoa. Why two of those 100 mcg patches? What should your levels be at? >>5898299
> 0.15 mg - 0.25mg.
Whoa what? 100 microgram patches have 0.125 mg, and I thought THAT was kinda high.
I mean, maybe it's my build, skin permeability, or from an estrogen sensitivity but from 1 of those patches I was at around 900-1000 pmol/L one day after application, dipping down to 700ish pre-replacement. Not 100 pg/mL.
Am I weird? Am I the only one with these levels? Everyone else seems to say they need to be on fifty patches but like, for me I don't.
>>5920494
>shilling patches
Fuck off hon.
>>5920512
I'm not shilling. I'm just confused.
What's what with patches? I want to personally know because I'd switch if there was a concrete reason to it.
>>5920494
I wonder why people don't use pills towards the end of their injection's duration to ease the drop in estradiol.
>>5920494
Nah it's the same for me. I use combined gel and patches.. it's godlike. And i end up with nice tits, not those cone tits you get from pills. Switching to injections now tho.. (not im)
>>5920793
The delivery method doesn't dictate your beast size lmao. Your anti androgen does. And the shape isn't permanent. It's just a development stage.
>>5920793
is this. Is this what you actually believe
>>5920793
Hon detected.
>>5920847
Not really but i thought it would fit OP's style of posting.
Can anybody enlighten me on what Progesterone does?
>>5920397
Side effects of blocking 5a-reductase.
>>5921349
Makes you feel good. Blocks DHT. Rounds out your boobs. Makes you retain water in places. Softens your skin.
>>5921349
Progesterone comes from "pro+gestation" i.e. pro-pregnancy. It signals the uterus to shed its lining to prevent uterine diseases, such as cancer, from the blood festering within the uterus. It also causes water retention in the breasts and butt, causing them to swell a bit as during the time of ovulation. This is a holdover from lower primates, where the females' breasts and butt would swell and brightly turn red as an indicator of fertility. According to one news article I have read, an ovulating human female's facial cheeks will be slightly redder during ovulation (but on a level that it is only subconsciously noticed by males), and they react to that. I don't know if that's because of progesterone or something else.
Because progesterone seems to have its most important effects in the uterus, a number of endocrinologists do not recommend even micronized progesterone for use by MtFs, especially when the results of its use have been confounded by research on cis female patients using artificial progestins like medroxyprogesterone. Some oppose the prohibition of the use of progesterone in MtFs and argue it's necessary for full breast-development and has important psychological effects including on mood and libido.
Can someone halp a girl out?
How do I find an informed consent clinic near me?
I tried putting it into my iphone but it only shows me one in NYC?
Is there an easy way to locate one near me :(?
>>5921568
Ask your local Planned Parenthood, they might do it.
>>5921642
Awesome advice but the only ones that do in my state are like 8+ hours drive from me :(, thanks tho
>>5921647
lol no, Southern California here ;(
>>5920736
How do patches 'not work'?
>>5921501
>lower primates, where the females' breasts and butt would swell and brightly turn red as an indicator of fertility
Honestly, I've only heard of the ones whose butt swells and turns red, are there actually any primates whose breasts swell and turn red too?
>>5921733
Ah, I think you're right, I must have misremembered.
>>5921448
What are they?
>>5920186
Most people have no clue why somebody would want to change their sex, especially from male to female. Also many transgenders have been fired for transitioning, or when they are found out to be transgender. Only a few states have job protection for them. Even then how are you going to prove it.
>>5920494
With patches, the delivery rate is high at the beginning, and gently ramps down towards patch change time. I staggered the two patches I was using by two days so as one was peaking, the other was ramping down. Boob growth rate then was good. My skin rejected them. It hates all medical glues, even bandaids. See the chart in >>5898299 for roughly how much of blood level is created per patch. The general rule of thumb is 60 to 100 pg/mL per 100mcg of patch. I don't know what that converts to in pmol/L units often used in Europe.
I personally want implants, but at a startup cost of around $700, then $350 every 4 to 6 months. they are expensive. The nice thing is no needing to replace patches or pills to remember to take.
>>5920736
Patches do work nicely. The only issues are possible allergic reaction to the glue, and the hassle of changing them.
>>5920793
Yeah, mine started to cone after switching to pills. Sucks.
>>5921501
Out of wack estrogen to progesterone levels causes increased thyroid binding globulin which can be a problem for people taking thyroid hormones.
>>5922004
>implants
I went from patches to implants and honestly they are 100% worth the money
>>5920382
I self med but I don't do bloodwork, haven't in a few years.Hopefully if things work out for me I will be getting lab work sooner than later because I'm probably slowly dying senpai even though I feel fine most of the time.
Buserelin/Suprefact is not on this list, but I think it's almost identical to lupron.
So I asked in the /mtfg/ thread but didn't quite get a response.
My total testosterone was at the bottom of the male range. (8 somethings) and my free testosterone was undetectable on my first blood test. Will my total testosterone gradually decrease naturally without adding extra AAs? I'm on spiro, second month.
>>5922154
Where do you get them? I'm in Canada and I really don't know if anyone offers it.
>>5922004
> The general rule of thumb is 60 to 100 pg/mL per 100mcg of patch
Weird. Like I said earlier, I was getting 1000 pmol/L on one 100 mcg patch, which is like, 250 pg/mL, higher than you'd get on a two patches.
Is it possible to have an estrogen sensitivity like that? Or do the people that I get my bloodwork done by just fuck everything up?
>>5923244
>Is it possible to have an estrogen sensitivity like that?
yes, you are just an outlier. There could be some other medical reason for that, but who knows? Do you know what your estrogen level is on AAs without the patch?
I calculate it is roughly 272 pg/ml for 1000 pmol/L.
>>5923858
> Do you know what your estrogen level is on AAs without the patch?
It was outside of normal ranges (high) for a guy pre-E, but still insignificant for a girl. That said, I had high enough testosterone (barely outside of normal male [high] ranges) that it could have been converting into E. My first doc didn't check E levels for the first few months, and I switched docs to someone more competent who did, so I don't have anything but initial and present data. I do have a pretty feminine frame (esp. arms, hands, legs and waist, only masculine features on me are my brow ridge, acne scarring, and boxy shoulders [but still not super wide for a girl or anything]) despite uber T levels in puberty, so something is definitely up in that sense.
And yeah, 272 pg/ml for 1000 pmol/L. Maybe the people I get my blood tests done by were messing up consistently? But like, I was on 125 at a point but then really bad stuff started happening. Like, my hair started getting kind of sticky and stuff so I went back down, cheaper anyway.
But yeah, is it possible? I mean, I'm just concerned that my usual lab is fucking up in a big way, or something. It's really disconcerting to wind up with vastly different levels from other people.
I'm only 118 lbs, so maybe weight could have something to do with it?
>>5925272
Possibilities
>PAIS - Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome
>Intersex, possible ovotestis.
I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of.
>>5926306
I think the *big* thing is not knowing the origin of it. I mean, is there any way to *know* you're intersex or have PAIS? Can you get tested for it through a private lab, genetically? Ovotestis seems like an interesting possibility, but like, it could be *anything*).
My genitals are well-developed, so it's probably not PAIS.
>>5927299
low T during puberty can be a sign of an underlying thyroid condition tbhon
that's what I have which is why I stayed quite andro
>>5927339
Nope. Like I said, I had really high T AND E (still low for a girl though) to begin with, and probably even higher during puberty. I was a complete emotional nutcase during puberty ('doglike' as some might describe me), probably from E + T in concert.
I really don't know. I've tested with the patch on both at the start and the end of a cycle. Might get my chromosomes tested and maybe ovotestis, 'cause they're *possibilities*. It's just REALLY freaking me out that I'm getting a consistently totally different result than literally everyone else, and I don't feel like I'll be comfortable until I know what's causing it.
Can't sleep well at night desu.
I read that if you have the implant, you can't have surgery while it's still there/active
Any truth to that?
>>5927563
you have to stop estrogen for a little bit before surgery, so thats likely why
>>5927563
some surgeons might not but there are was someone on reddit who had srs with suporn and they said there were no problems, I had no problems with it aswell for ffs
>>5927563
>>5927602
Implants can be tuned to give you normal female estrogen levels so they shouldn't be an issue. The prohibition is due to the breakdown products from pills. Estradiol-valerate breaks down in the liver into a blood clotting factor. That isn't good to have coursing around in your veins when you are sedentary after surgery.
>>5920065
This, Walgreens is based as fuck and you can call in prescriptions via the phone without having to talk to a real person.
>>5930427
And you can pick up your script from any Walgreens.
>>5932892
Rite Aid is also God Tier
>>5920382
insurance is really for low probability high-cost events, not regular expenses. you're "pissing" it away so that in the event you get cancer or something you wont' go bankrupt
>>5921647
not that person, im in central nj though. any places around here?
