I'm a 20yo mtf looking to self medicate HRT. Can anybody give me any advice on what pills to take, dosages, availabilty etc..?
>>5869070
You should consult with a medical professional about your medical condition, since they do not have OTC hormones.
>>5869070
qhi.co.uk for europe
alldaychemist for USA
100mg spironolactone, 2mg progynova, every 12 hours as exactly as possible, with water, after at least a light meal
check for forms to fill out for new customers etc. on the website
>>5869105
Not OP, but are there pointers on what food/drinks should you avoid?
>>5869105
>shilling spiro
Come on senpai, OP take Cyproterone acetate it's the best.
>>5869164
Cypro is horrible.
Lupron > Bica > Spiro > Cypro
>>5869285
>legitimately thinking spiro is better than cypro
spiro isn't even a proper anti-androgen
cypro might be shit, but it's miles better than spiro
>>5869285
>Lupron > Bica >
Why do people keep recommending these? They're expensive as fuck. Trans people dont have a lot of money, we're mostly poor/getting by.
>>5869318
No, Estradiol is an anti androgen when used in conjunction with Spironolactone. And Spiro is the only pill that makes Finasteride/Durasteride function as intended.
>>5869325
Bica is $25 per month at RiteAid without insurance (GoodRx coupon for free) and covered by almost all insurance including state. Lupron is now covered by Medicaid too.
>>5869343
Cheaper still.
>>5869343
Isn't lupron only covered if you have precocious puberty or have a sex steroid-dependent cancer?
>>5869442
Nope. I just got mine covered as an adult transgirl.
>>5869333
>And Spiro is the only pill that makes Finasteride/Durasteride function as intended.
source?
>>5869105
Question here,can you buy from qhi in any other EU country with no problems?
>>5869105
what happens if you oversleep and miss the 12 hour cycle by a few hours? do testosterone levels rise up, or is it fine
>>5869105
also, when should you bump up the dosages? ive been on 100 mg spiro/2mg progyn for a month now.
>>5869105
and by every 12 hours, do you mean splitting the 100mg spiro in half, taking them 2 times a day and one 2mg progynova a day?
>>5870173
100mg spiro is laughably low anyway.
May aswell take it twice daily.
>>5870173
You want 200mg per day. And spiro has about a 28 hour half life so you can take it all at once. Estrodial, when taken orally, has about a 22 hour life too. So just take your pills once a day.
Source: I'm an endo.
>>5870188
as for progynova? and when should i bump up the progynova dosages
>>5870193
How about progynova? Just 2mg a day? When should that be raised. Will I always be taking spiro 200mg a day, or will that be raised as well in the future? Sorry for asking so many questions, can't get a bloodtest done
>>5870210
Over 200mg of spiro you're going to be literally pissing out money. Bicalutamide is both cheaper and much more effective as an anti androgen, though. Bump your estradiol to 4mg. If 200mg of spiro isn't reducing your T enough, increase your estradiol. Up to 30mg per day is safe. But bicalutamide is a better anti androgen and will mean less estradiol.
>>5870216
I looked up bicalutamide on allday and it's expensive as fuck. I can only self med, what do?
Bica question: Does it block DHT well? I have a big DHT problem which is why cypro is great for me but if I can switch over to bica, I don't want to notice that my hairline is slowly receding again. Or will I have to take bica and finastride like I did with spiro?
>>5869325
because cost is irrelevant. that's for someone to make a decision on their own.
>>5870248
It's got a minor side effect of blocking DHT but you want to take Finasta/Dutasta anyway because Bica doesn't lower T, it just makes your body unable to bond to it, so you need a DHT agonist like the above to prevent androgen panic.
>>5870243
Just see a free clinic and tell them you moved to the area and forgot your meds. Then buy it without insurance for $16.
>>5870248
Cypro doesn't block DHT. At all. Only Finasteride, Dutasteride, and Bicalutamide.
>>5870304
can you do this indefinitely because i dont have a prescription
>>5870310
M8 my DHT on CPA was 1/6th of what I had on spiro.
>>5870310
That's so strange, I've notice my hairline stayed put once I started taking cypro.
>>5870342
DHT lowers on effective anti androgenic treatment because its converted from free T, so less free T, means less DHT. But you want far less DHT, and even 1/6 of normal/high male level is enough to call MPB among other maladies.
tl;dr you weren't on the right dose of spiro.
>>5870314
Yes.
>>5870376
>tl;dr you weren't on the right dose of spiro.
Well it were 200mg and 300 was stupid so I switched. Dont have the units in mind right now but it was 54 whatever you measure it with which is super well in female range.
>>5870391
Those with a prostate need lower DHT levels than even cis girls.
>>5870384
okay, thanks. does this apply to estradiol as well? how do i get a prescription without having to go to a therapist? legit route seems a lot cheaper than diy
>>5870436
Legit route is WAY cheaper. Go to a free clinic, say you just moved there. Out of country is best, but out of state is fine. Just know your drugs and your does and they'll give it.
>>5870446
you got a skype or email or something? i'd really like to talk to someone about this
>>5870453
Sure, what's your Skype? I'll add you.
>>5870460
mike.dao999
>>5870446
what classifies as a free clinic? you really just go in and say you moved there, had a prescription for x and y, and forgot it? then they will just give one to you? (assuming it's not shit like xanax or adderall or whatever)
>>5870477
Yeah, that's what I did. Self medded in my home country, used that line when I moved to the US, got prescriptions. From there, got medicaid, had medical history now, got an end, now on motherfucking Lupron for free.
What happens to my penor after pills? I don't want to saw it off for the record.
>>5870578
Use it regularly and it stays functional. Depending on size, it might not be enough for anal sex as the penetrator, but it varies.
>>5870490
so you asked for lupron?
did they ask about former/new address or press you on things?
>>5870668
I got Lupron after a few years of being legitimate and getting an endo and stuff.
>>5870310
how does bica reduce DHT?
>>5871123
When bicalutamide binds to the androgen receptor, the bicalutamide-receptor complex is pulled into the cell nucleus. Normally, this is when transcription would take place. Fortunately, the bicalutamide-receptor complex is transcriptionally inactive. It does nothing, and is degraded within the cell. This is how it is able to block DHT, despite binding less strongly than DHT to the androgen receptor.
>>5871135
so then there isn't any reason to use a 5-AR inhibitor along side bica?
Does DHT still accumulate in the hair follicles c ausing MPB?
>>5869518
On medicaid?
>>5871799
Yes
>>5871273
You need a 5-AR inhibitor to prevent androgen crisis.
>>5871814
god medicaid is the best
and cunts are still going to vote for hillary
>>5872028
I got six needles of Lupron, so I'm covered for the next 18 months at least ;_;
>>5872065
don't rub it in m8
Thanks for all the help everyone, I think I know what I'm doing now. Is anyone else having problems getting on qhi.co.uk?
>>5870310
>Cypro doesn't block DHT
this post of full of shit, cypro blocks t and dht from binding to receptors
>>5871817
Ok thanks for clearing that up
>>5870304
Aren't they going to ask who my doc is who prescribed the meds?
>>5874587
Nope.
Is Pueraria Mirifica effective?
>>5876948
It really depends on your genetics, but it scores a solid "partially effective" for most people, at least enough to try
>>5876969
Have you tried it yourself?
>>5876948
No.
>>5876948
for some people it causes breast growth, that's all though
>>5877046
Have you tried it yourself? How do you know this?
>>5876970
I took pm for like 6 months, stopped for like 3, then got hrt.
I definitely got effects from the pm. I didn't get real breast growth, but I did get some fat on my upper chest, Also some slight deposits on my upper hips.
My facial hair did start to grow a bit slower after a while.
Granted, I got more effects from the first week of spiro+estriadol than all the pm, even with e patches because of human garbage and still smoke cigarettes. Though maybe this is because I had taken the pm? Doc didn't seem interested beyond that I had stopped.
>>5877091
What sort of dosage where you taking? Also you didn't have any changes to your skin or head hair?
>>5876948
the only reason you should ever take pueraria mirifica is if you absolutely cannot get hormones and that fact very much upsets you, and you need a placebo to hold you over until you can
>>5877105
Honestly am just trying to figure out if it's even worth it results wise from people that have actually tried it. Sitting here giving me your blunt observation doesn't solve or help anything.
>>5877098
No noticeable changes to skin or hair from pm.
Apparently some people get lucky and it's cheap & harmless so why not pony up the $10 and order a bottle from amazon if you're so curious?
>>5877131
(Cont)
Really the issue isn't pm, it's t.
Without an aa or an Orchi, no amount of any estrogen will do much.
>>5877131
Already have. Was more or less looking for some real people that have run that race already. It's always nice to gather opinions and hear peoples results.
>>5877137
I heard Saw Palmetto is a good blocker?
>>5877139
It's the only herbal worth anything fwiw.
Anecdotal research suggests it's more effective topically than internal, though I've only ever had caps, the creams are too expensive. Maybe get some lotion or something after I've been on spiro a nit longer.
>>5877144
Ehhhh it didn't seem to do much(took it with the pm) it obviously had some effect, but it did not seem to be a full blocker. Iirc it only blocks dht, not t itself
>>5877115
my post answered your question on its effectiveness.
>>5877159
The more opinions and results from others the merrier. From what i hear the results can vary greatly from person to person.
>>5870117
Within EU, should be fine. Norway is known to have some custom interference though.
>>5870158
One of the reason you should take cypro, not less-than-2-hour-half-life spiro. Every 12 hour is not even sufficient, as 5*2h=10h you will have at least 2 hours with no AA.
The others boiling down to, spiro is less effective.
>>5870193
>>5870216
>claims to be endo
>say incorrect shit
>doesn't even read the monograph where such info are clearly written found (pic related)
The half life of spironolactone is 2h or even less. The main metabolite canrenone is still an aldosterone antagonist, but is a far weaker androgen antagonist.
If you have to use spiro anyway, you should split the doses as evenly as possible, 4 time a day optimally. (or 50/50/100 if you do not feel like waking up at 4 o'clock)
>Up to 30mg per day is safe
With 30mg E you WILL get massive thromboembolism.
Also shilling for spiro and bicalutamide where cyproterone, also available for self-med, has both androgen blockade and antigonadotropic MoA.
I'm actually pretty mad people are gobbling the bullshit this anon is peddling.
>>5869070
none
>>5877366
Cypro is shit tier.
>>5877410
Cypro is inferior to Bicalutamide. It's inferior in terms of side effects to spironolactone, too. There's a reason it has no FDA approval.
>>5877410
>shilling for cypro
>causes massive hepatotoxicity even at low doses
>huge withdrawal symptoms
>literally causes depression
lolwut
>>5869070
Don't seek a therapist first. It's stupid to diagnose and medicate yourself, you are not a physician and neither is anyone here, and even if someone who was the same age as you and was mtf and was on hormones the dosage they take might not be safe for you for a number of reasons, also HRT can be lethal for some people.
don't be an idiot, seek out a doctor,
>>5877457
HRT is only dangerous if you use outdated and disproven drugs like cypro.
>>5877467
Though to be fair the *tamides are OK, but having to take finasteride on the side is inconvenient.
>>5877463
Cyproterone Acetate (CPA), as a single solution drug, is more effective than Spironolactone. But Spironolactone is much safer, has far fewer side effects, and gives you the freedom to find which DHT agonist works best for you (Finasteride/Dutasteride,) as well as having pretty much no contraindications except for potassium.
CPA is also banned in almost all countries, except those that still use Premarin (like fucking Canada. Congrats on your horse piss pills, girls.)
>>5877486
>Banned in almost all country
Except all of europe, japan, australia, canada, singapore, south america, basically everywhere but the US. Always the american shilling for their beloved spiro, fox-and-the-grapes style.
Speaking of side-effects, enjoy the diuretic effect.
>>5877473
i take finasteride anyway, but haven't been able to find the tamides' effects on DHT. any resources?
>>5877615
Not an effect per se, just that it block the receptors but increase blood testosterone level, so the conversion to DHT still occurs.
Given that DHT has greater affinity for the receptor than the flutamides (links related), the DHT could have effect (benign prostate enlargment, male pattern baldness, that is, tissue-specific effects) .Thus the finasteride.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12496872
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8560673
>>5877457
i told the trans care people i go to that i self medicate, they told me to just keep going with my cypro/progynova. they aren't allowed to help out or give me shit due to shitty laws here. self-medicating can't be that dangerous if the doctor is actually encouraging me to do it.
>>5878137
The doctor doesn't want to get involved because you were an idiot and told them you self medicated.
>>5877796
That's not quite how it works. The DHT agonist is primarily to prevent androgen crisis.
>>5877522
CPA causes severe depression, liver toxicity even at low doses, and has severe withdrawal symptoms. Spiro makes you pee.
>>5877522
Nobody wants to be on Spiro, because it's got marginal impact and requires a higher level of estradiol to suppress the testosterone. Casodex and Lupron are where people are looking to change to.
>>5878170
>androgen crisis
A condition you invented ? Sounds more and more like a quack.
As for the cypro side effects, hepatotoxicity is not a concern for the dosage used in HRT, and depression is also a side effect of spironolactone (link related - in which you'll also see spiro being specifically associated with insufficient breast growth).
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2012-2030
Yes, spiro is the safest option, and cypro has potentially grave side effects, but seeing that it is a less effective anti-androgen and a powerful diuretic, both of which impact your quality of life as a trans person, cypro has the best benefit/risk ratio.
>>5879036
I love how it making you pee is the worst side effect you can come up with, lmao
>>5879036
how does a diuretic impact the quality of life of a trans person
Spreading misinfo is one thing but doing it for someone who is looking for advice to self med is a whole new low
>>5879093
>be in public
>take spiro so have to pee all the time
>which bathroom do i use?
>>5879093
Low blood pressure first off
>>5878170
>That's not quite how it works. The DHT agonist is primarily to prevent androgen crisis.
explain further pls
>>5879238
Exactly. Please stop shilling cyproterone acetate. It's literally so dangerous it was denied FDA approval. Ever.
>>5879370
i was referring to you moron
>>5879238
It's disappointing because CPA is just horrible, I can't believe people are recommending it.
i actually got less depressed taking cpa. ive been taking it for a few months and am going to get an orchie soon. my liver is just fine and the enzymes are fine. cpa and spiro for that matter are shitty for long term use. i think cpa is fine if you take it for under two years.
>>5879715
this. cpa and spiro both suck. Get Lupron. Or Casodex. Lupron is more effective than an orchie actually.
>>5879730
well, it can be more effective but at the same time after you take an AA for a bit after an orchie and your adrenals calm down, you produce as much testosterone as a cis woman would via the adrenals. you still want some T... usually something less than 60 ng/dl
>>5879747
Lupron and equivalents give you better than orchie results with the ability to still have kids.
>>5879754
you cant get better than orchie results after the adrenals calm down and you produce as much T as a cis woman.
you can block more T than with an orchie but thats not good for your system because you still want a little bit. also I dont like the idea of relying on something to block my T in the long term. i know ill always have to take estrogen but its just one less thing.
>>5879768
One shot every three or four months is manageable for freedom of choice.
And Lupron takes you to preteen levels. It's lower than cisgirls.
>>5879778
to bad it costs so much and no insurance will cover it here :/
>>5879778
id rather be healthy in the long run and have cis girl levels of T because your body actually uses it to regulate stuff. lower T does not mean more feminization as long as its in cis ranges along with estrogen etc
also lupron is extremely expensive for a lot of people. its just not realistic for some situations
>>5879787
How much is it? One or two thousand a shot?
>>5879736
;')
>>5879795
$1200 for a month shot. More for a quarterly/trimesterly.
>>5879800
also lupron doesnt cross the blood/brain barrier so you still have T in your brain. i dont know how legitimate that is as an argument but its still something
i think people shill it and think its better than it really is even if it does preven the absorption of t quite well (though you still want some for sure)
>>5879814
You're thinking of Casodex.
>>5879836
Yeah since it got WHO status it got a bit cheaper.
>>5879836
>I thought GnRH analogs bind in the pituitary?
They do.
>finally work up courage to call clinic
>can't get an appointment until september
>go on alldaychemist
>throw 90 tablets of 100mg spironolactone, 2mg progynova in cart
>$25 shipping on top of 60 for the pills
>that will last a month and a half
Suicide it is, farewell!
>>5880648
Don't buy your estrogen from alldaychemist unless you're doing injections. Buy progynova from http://qhi.co.uk and get cyproterone acetate (never mind the hepatotoxicity, that happens when you're at 200mg a day, you can go as low as 25mg a day) from http://unitedpharmacies.com/Androcur-Cyproterone-Acetate.html Alternatively, get the procur generic from http://inhousepharmacy.vu Remember inhousepharmacy gives discounts, so even though it says $195 for 200 tablets, it will probably come out to ~$182. If you can handle your testosterone with 25mg of CPA, buying from unitedpharmacies will cost you $166, or you could pay 90% of that if you use the wire discount.
It will cost you ~$320 for a year or a little more than $26 dollars a month, if you buy a year's supply at a time. Getting injections is actually cheaper though, and I'm told it's more effective. Too bad a sharps container would give me away to my parents.
>>5880732
i'm dying for united to start accepting credit cards...
>>5880732
Don't take androcur. Not even once.
>>5881218
Massive depression. Liver failure. Heavily addictive with potentially lethel withdrawal effects.
>>5881218
The only anti androgen that causes permanent disfigurement.
>>5881224
Again with this. Those depression studies were done on cis men with androgen-sensitive cancers weren't they? And isn't part of the standard treatment to give them estrogen as well? Of course a cis man would feel depressed if you gave him tranny meds. The liver failure is also only at those 100mg+ doses used to treat those androgen-sensitive cancers. If you take 25mg or 50mg you're under no danger. When does the addiction set in? What withdrawal effects? Why don't all the Euro trannies complain about this if it's such a big deal?
>>5881232
>permanent disfigurement
What disfigurement?
>>5881262
its some salty amerilard
>>5881262
Androcur is used in countries where Premarin is still in use, too, and that shot is not only nasty but disgusting. It's common only in socialized healthcare countries with under developed medical culture, and banned in first world places with actual healthcare like the US and Japan.
>>5869070
you should get a doctor to prescribe you one bullet to the head.
>>5881276
What does the shittiness of premarin, which cannot be denied, have to do with cyproterone acetate? Either way, I'm not going back on spiro. I got kidney pains all the time on that garbage, I'm sure my kidneys were failing. But that may have been partly the fault of my unchangeably high potassium diet.
>>5881351
Why unchangeably high?
And it shows that countries where Androcur is still in use have very undeveloped regulation programs on medications and often go for the cheapest solutions to support. In a free trade market like the US, Japan, Korea, etc, the better drugs prevail. The only reason Spiro is on the market still is the fact its multi functional.
Switch to Casodex/Bica, tbvh.
>>5881369
Plantains and potatoes are what my mother cooks for dinner most nights (I was surprised to find out potatoes actually have more potassium in them than bananas do). I can't tell her to change things around because she'll ask why, and I don't know what my parents' reactions would if they found out I'm taking HRT behind their backs.
What shows to you that premarin is actually prescribed? I do in fact think there was a massive drop in demand for all estrogens when a study came out saying estrogen can worsen the risk of Alzheimer's in post-menopausal women. It's also very expensive.
>>5881396
Premarin is cheaper than Estradiol for oral use, that's the big decider. And you can balance the potassium intake by stacking sodium.
>>5881396
can't you just not eat? tell her you don't eat dinner anymore because it makes you feel like a bloated mess in the mornings.
>>5881396
>still lives with parents
>actually trying to shill a dangerous medication to others
>>5881529
why the fuck would you want to stop eating just to take the shittiest "AA" available?
>>5881568
It's the safest.
>>5881595
[cn]
>>5881791
CPA side effects including liver failure, massive depression, addiction and lethal withdrawal symptoms.
Aldactone side effects include... you pee a bit more than usual?
>>5881822
source?
>>5881308
I don't really think that's within a doctor's jurisdiction.
>>5881871
You'll find everything you need here.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cyproterone+acetate+side+effects+depression+liver+failure
I want a feminine face and body but I don't want boobs. What do I do?
>>5882725
Casodex/Bica seems to be the way to go.
>>5882960
On it's own or in combination with spiro and estradiol?
>>5877486
You mean dht antagonist
>>5882725
test out the AA+SERM
>>5883724
Interesting, thank you. I've just done a quick read up on Tamoxifen and I think that will do the trick.
>>5886867
note I am just repeating shit I've seen on here. there were several people looking into it or starting it but no reports as far as i'm aware
>>5886872
I'm willing to risk any side effects. What's the worst that could happen? haha
