What happens if you go on HRT for a small period of time but not enough for a full body change. Do you become a femboy or just look like a MTF who doesn't pass. I ask because i am ageing (currently 18) and don't want to get more masculine but don't want to be female
>pic unrelated
>>5809805
Try T-blockers (antiandrogens)
Only permanent effects are titties, take hormones for a bit and you will soften up and grow boobage, get off them and you go back to your previous state + tiny boobs
Speaking as an MTF, I took low dose hormones for most of my teenage years (14-18) and all that happened was that my body hair growth stopped in its tracks, but I didn't grow any boobs. It was only when I decided to transition at 19 that I went on higher dose and started more female development. Boobs take a long time to grow, just regulate the dose if you see something you don't want. Easiest way is to take androgen blockers and a really small dose of estrogen (0.5mg) to maintain your bone density. Female hormones are generally really reversible, male hormones aren't, so if you want to look feminine or even think you'll ever want to look feminine it's a good idea to block the shit out of testosterone.
>>5809828
wut
>>5809805
post pics
>>5809850
not happinin
>>5809876
why not? Just post your bod
>>5809882
nah
>>5815925
do AA's cause alshimers?
>>5813691
Faggot
>>5809805
ayy my kind of thread
>>5815925
ayy SERMs
Okay first let's clear up the stuff about Alzheimers.
The AAs associated with Alzheimers are specifically GnRH agonists. I don't know about GnRH antagonists, but the bottom line is most people take Spiro or Cypro which are neither of these.
It's only a concern if your doctor offers you say, Lupron, or any other preparation of leuprorelin.
OP, you want to stop ageing like a man. As others have said, the main way of doing this is by using an anti-androgen, but you then have to take another med to protect your bone mineral density.
Taking estrogens (eg estradiol) will do this, but will feminize you more, so they're not suitable for you.
If you are using spiro, cypro or one of the pure anti-androgens (non-steroidal androgen receptor blockers eg bicalutamide), you will not be able to use a SARM, a selective androgen receptor modulator, such as Ostarine. For people who want to maintain youthful boymode without any feminization, ostarine plus an anti-androgen is the best way to go, however since ostarine cannot be used with cypro, spiro, bica or any other that blocks androgen receptors, your only real option is to take a GnRH antagonist which are expensive, and pray that they don't have the same Alzheimer's risk as GnRH agonists. these don't block androgen receptors ergo you could use a SARM like ostarine.
>>5820612
(cont'd)
ugh right look, i don't even know if you care for the explanation, but IMO the best stack for femboys who don't wanna physically transition too much like transgirls, is to take bicalutamide plus raloxifene. just do that.
bica doesn't actually suppress test, it just blocks receptors, ergo spermatogenesis is still protected and infertility isn't such a problem in the long run.
bica also doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, so you won't get as many mental changes as you would from MtF hrt.
raloxifene will protect bone mineral density, and help combat breast growth.
be aware, raloxifene, like other exogenous estrogens and SERMs, increases your risk of thrombo-embolic events. combat this by eating right, not smoking, and not being a lazy fuck,
>>5820612
>>5820620
i feel a need to elaborate on the Alzheimer's risk of AA's. apparently, androgens have a neuroprotective action which is lost when you use AA's.
my other recommendation, aside from
Bicalutamide (Pure Anti-Androgen) and Raloxifene (SERM), was
Degarelix (GnRH) and Ostarine (SARM).
Ostarine may not have the same neuroprotective effects as other androgens, but I just looked up and apparently some SARMs do, eg RAD-140.
So would an ideal albeit expensive stack be
Degarelix and RAD-140?
RAD-140 would protect bone mineral density and neurons, so it's helping combat the side effects of using an effective AA.
Unlike steroidal, bioidentical androgens, it won't metabolise into DHT or estrogens (via 5α-reductase and aromatase enzymes respectively), hence protecting against further virilization and aging like a man, and growing boobs, respectively.
The downside is it's more anabolic than Ostarine.
The other downside is that Degarelix and RAD-140 would be far more expensive than Bicalutamide and Raloxifene.
>>5820620
what is a good dosage for bicalutamide to suppress test?
>>5820638
oh shit... i forgot. umm, the daily dosing range will be somewhere between 50-150mg definitely no higher than 150mg, but i honestly don't know that much as it's not info i retain as i'm not personally interested in bica. i understand the principles of its mechanism of action, but not the practicalities of actually taking it.
it might be best to ask who in femgen is taking bica and how much.
raloxifene is a 60mg once daily medication. it seems pretty fixed at that. don't take a higher dose. its main on label use is for combating estrogen sensitive breast cancer. that's what it's dosed for. if it's strong enough to deal with aggressive cancers, it's strong enough for your use.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15238910
the actual article for this is behind a paywall so i cannot see what doses they used here, however those test participants weren't suppressing testosterone and so i wouldn't be surprised if they were on a lower dose than as necessary for you.
![WhatHasScienceDone[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4Pwd7Eb.jpg "WhatHasScienceDone[1].jpg")
>>5820612
considering sarms popped up literally a year ago we might see something more interesting pretty soon that would allow to stay cute and youthful and gain muscles at the same time
sadly I was born too early to take advantage of it
btw hi, I'm one of the other 'drug nerds' here
>>5820789
>considering sarms popped up literally a year ago
nope, they've been around much longer than that. they're still largely in clinical trials for legit medical use, but in the meantime the bodybuilding community is already putting them to use, and from what i can tell
>that would allow to stay cute and youthful and gain muscles at the same time
RAD-140 and LGD-4033 in conjunction with a GnRH antagonist. literally. for aforementioned reasons that those two are anabolic whilst not metabolising to DHT or estrogens.
not metabolising into DHT will help with your youthful aspect and not ageing like a man, but for a "cuter" look you'd need at least some fat redistribution of an estrogen or SERM, ergo also take either Raloxifene, or cycle between Raloxifene and Estradiol.
simple.
>btw hi, I'm one of the other 'drug nerds' here
cool! so what do you think of my theoretical proposals above?
>>5820833
yeah some only came to mass sports PED market recently and there are bunch of new ones in development and testing
bica +SERM sounds solid, that's what I've been looking into and we discussed it earlier in femgen and other thread
I still haven't read anyone's first experience (besides that reddit post) but there are studies that prove their effectiveness
one potentially good thing about bica is that it wont make you infertile
while GnRH antagonist would cause testicular atrophy in the long run (I guess its irrelevant for MtF)
dont know much about SARMs besides sports and therapeutic usage due to their positive effects on bones and muscle gain/retaining and fat loss and far less side effects than usual anabolics
>>5821178
i'm waiting on my ADC delivery, 30 weeks progynon depot and 12 weeks raloxifene, to cycle between the two. i hope to start on the 12th although it might be delayed and i'll have to start a week later.
but yeah, i'll be practicing what i preach and seeing how raloxifene does for controlling breast development between progynon depot injections :)
SARMs are good, much better than having your natural androgens in you especially since they can't metabolise to DHT, but the caveat is as i've said that you cannot use them with any AA that works as an androgen receptor blocker.
fun fact, since i'm on degarelix i can take ostarine, and have been doing (only 5mg daily, closer to the therapeutic dose than the doses of 15-30mg gearheads are taking for gains)
>>5821203
like its almost hilarious, Im reading that LGD is really great 10x more anabolic than test and girls are using it too with no virilization, but no one knows whats side effect it has in the long run ...
apparently LGD or Ostarine doesn't cross blood-brain barrier but RAD-140 does
>>5821258
>apparently LGD or Ostarine doesn't cross blood-brain barrier but RAD-140 does
source?
i know there's a study looking exclusively at RAD-140's neuroprotective benefits, but it's good to know the other two don't do that cause umm... it might do me well to incorporate RAD-140 in the long run then. don't want alzheimers.
i would actually love more info on RAD-140 because it seems kinda scarce. so it's neuroprotective and anabolic, but what's it like on the virilization front for example, and when it comes to protecting bone mineral density?
>>5821294
didnt see research papers, just 'broscience' and posts on bb boards
>Im selling this shit and the guys come month later looking all swole and tell me how they feel
so dont quote me on that, I'll post if I come across anything solid
>>5821563
well for RAD-140, the papers are out there when it comes to neuroprotective effect, and bros saying they were swole is evidence enough for the anabolic effects, but doesn't say enough about virilizing effects or long term effects on bone mineral density.
>>5821595
http://www.nature.com/scibx/journal/v3/n24/full/scibx.2010.724.html
the article is about LGD-3303 which targets the brain receptors
but also mentioned
>LGD-4033, which is in Phase I testing to increase muscle strength and prevent bone fractures.
>That compound is not brain selective.
On LGD-4033 effectiveness and side effects - nothing about brain effects, good muscle gain, bones density, doesn't affect prostate, some natural test production suppression
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4111291/
>>5822536
that's fascinating, but i had already gathered LGD-4033 was useless for protecting against AD
from reading about LGD-3303, and how there's potential that it could be used for androgen therapy without virilizing effects in men and women, that sounds promising - if RAD-140 is too virilizing, at least it's not the only neuroprotective SARM out there.
>>5822938
ugh, that must be annoying. those are the sort of people who fuel sue culture because they can't take responsibility for themselves.
>>5821178
OP here
Infertility wouldnt really matter because i am gay
>>5823041
protection of spermatogenesis aside there are other reasons for femboys to take bica over a GnRH antagonist.
1) the price. it's cheaper.
2) most femboys i've seen wanna go for that twiggy androgynous look. i'm pretty much the opposite, i'm MtF and want to be a muscle girl so i need my androgen receptors free for SARMs.
>>5820620
Actually bica DOES cross the BBB in humans - although it is unknown in which amount, probably quite low - since it increases LH (but less than similar pure AA).
The study saying that it doesn't cross the BBB was tested on dogs.
