Seems like child abuse to me, probably wacko liberal single moms leading their kids to do this for attention due to that munchausens by proxy mental disorder.
>>5505044
I think young children aren't really aware enough to realize that "I like dolls" and "Girls like dolls" does not lead to "I'm more like a girl."
I mean, Jesus, can't we at least wait until they're, say, 11 and have a better understanding of the physical differences between boys and girls?
>>5505072
No you bigot, who are you to deny my three year old girl-son xir medically necessary taxpayer funded vaginoplasty, breast implants, and HRT?
>>5505072
Make trans men wait until the age of 18 to undergo HRT. Test is so powerful it won't make a difference that they haven't gone through male puberty, but taking test before female puberty will permanently fuck your shit up. It's not a good idea.
On the flipside, let trans girls go through transition right before puberty. If they decide they aren't really trans, just let them detransition and let testosterone do it's thing.
Everyone passes, everyone's happy. It's simple as hell.
>>5505072
How does it hurt them to play with cross sex stereotypical toys, and wear the opposite genders clothes?
>>5505114
Alternately, couldn't you just give potential MtF T-blockers until they turn 18?
>>5505138
Nope. Going through menopause at 13 is not exactly the healthiest thing.
>>5505138
To fucking 18? Are you retarded?
>>5505126
Who said it hurts them? Let them play with toys outside their demographic all they want. But it really sounds like a lot of parents (and, through osmosis, their kids) jump from "boy likes dolls" to "boy is actually a girl." Without deeply considering that boys can like dolls, too.
It's a problem with the train of thought that "I'm going to let my little boy/girl play with girl/boy toys, but I'm still going to treat them as girl/boy toys." Young children are extremely impressionable in those formative years. They'll like what they like, but if you repeatedly call those "girl/boy toys," they're going to learn to associate themselves with girls/boys.
>>5505178
How is your paranoia diagnosis going?
>>5505193
They're not being paranoid. People are way dumber than you think.
In fact I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of years we got a shitton of lawsuits because of retarded parents who put their child through transition at 8 just because they liked monster trucks.
Which sounds silly, until you consider the real result of that: more. fucking. gatekeeping.
Get ready to not be able to transition until 25 because some bimbo fed her prancy son titty skittles because she was scared of him being gay.
I grew up playing with dolls and listening to back street boys and I'm not trans
>>5505193
Are you really saying that a boy who likes to play with dolls isn't going to more closely associate with girls if he's told dolls are a girl toy? Particularly if his parents have been avoiding gendering him at all (ie. calling him "Baby" instead of "Boy").
I think it's entirely healthy to present your children with options and encourage them to pick for themselves: doing so encourages independent evaluation and decision-making. However, I think it's equally important to avoid making associations with their choices that inaccurately shape their worldview. If your girl wants to play with trains or army men, let her, just don't call them "toys for boys," because they aren't. Young children don't get nuance.
>>5505044
>>5505094
>child transitiong
They don't do anything to children.
Doctors only give entirely reversible and harmless puberty delaying meds when they reach adolescence. http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422%2810%2970182-4/abstract?cc=y=
Someone who couldn't finish school using their delusions as a spring board for a crusade against the doctors is pretty pathetic.
Why don't you go to ISIS land where they welcome your kind?
>>5505094
>because anyones trying to do that to a three year old.
>>5505171
>http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422%2810%2970182-4/abstract?cc=y=
Delaying puberty by six months through the natural GNRH hormone regulation system is nont menopause.
Europeans have low fat diets and start puberty much later than americans and consequently grow taller and healthier cause their growth plates don't seal as early.
>>5505044
no it should, i wish i could have transtionated as kid, now im old and its pointless and an hero when im finally tired enouhg of this shit
>>5505280
>Liberalism the center
This chart would be accurate some generations ago. It isn't as the current meaning of liberal stands.
>>5505250
You're making up assumptions of how these parents treat their kids.
That's paranoia.
I remember being a little girl and dressing up as Batman for Halloween. I don't identify as male and I never have. But I wonder if things would have been different if I got a lot of positive reinforcement from my parents? It's hard to tell.
Is it so wrong to just be a woman with some guy interests?
>>5505418
So then clasical liberalism/Social-libertarianism and respect for bodily autonomy and what people and their doctors do is wrong, how?
Those are pretty much negative-rights values dating back from the enlightenment. The pathetic crusader who rambled about nonexistent baby sex changes and how the goverment has to send all the doctors and patients for reducation has the same mentality North Korea and ISIS use.
>my kid is a boy and likes dolls, he's def trans!!
>>5505479
You do realize doctors don't do anything other than wait and see for kids. Only thing they tell them to is not to punish them for being too effeminate/boyish.
>>5505493
>Just cut off his penis now, they can glue it back on later if it turns out he isn't trans.
>>5505513
Doctors do give out puberty blockers for alleged trans children today.
>>5505513
I only really had one set of parents but I can't really imagine parents that would punish their daughter for being a tomboy. Unless you mean like evil Disney parents.
>>5505426
I'm making assumptions based on how these articles present their findings.
And of course I'm making them up. Assumptions are formulated, not discovered.
What I'm afraid of is that parents who try tobe open-minded and accepting can oftentimes subconsciously push their children in one direction by trying too hard to NOT push them in the other direction. If this results in subtly-but-unintentionally encouraging the child to be identify as something they aren't - or, more likely, to the child saying something that the parents misinterpret as the former - the parents' attempts to be unfailingly supportive could result in the child growing up trans becaus4 they were effectively 'raised to be trans' by parents who, uneducated on trannies as most people are, genuinely thought they were trans.
Huh. Now whenever I see late bloomer kids I'm going to wonder whether their parents are saving their puberty until later or something.
>>5505492
Whoa calm down son, I think you're projecting the identity of another anon onto me.
Being liberal today mean supporting and never questioning any part of "progressiveness"
If you look at "Liberal" and "Conservative", the parties operating under those mantras have basically traded stances several times throughout history.
>>5505552
>can't really imagine parents that would punish their daughter for being a tomboy
Was more of thinking of parrents beating their son for seeming girly, but hey even if girls are luckier in that regard, I'm sure some are still abused for those reasons too.
>>5505546
>http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422%2810%2970182-4/abstract?cc=y=
They give to adolescents and it has the effect of delaying puberty by six or so months. It's also no more dangerous than placebo.
>>5505583
It's articles, not the real world.
>>5505215
Literally the most "transition" would mean for an 8 year old is blockers and social transition. Actual HRT doesn't start until the mid to late teens at least.
>>5505546
That's part of "wait and see". Because going through natural puberty is a form of transition too, you wouldn't want to put a kid through puberty and then have to do it again.
>>5505072
>>5505094
>>5505178
>>5505215
>>5505479
>>5505493
>>5505535
>>5505583
>"I like dolls" and "Girls like dolls" does not lead to "I'm more like a girl."
>three year old girl-son xir medically necessary taxpayer funded vaginoplasty, breast implants, and HRT?
Wow so you have absolutely no idea how therapy and testing for co-morbid conditions works for trans kids and you're just assuming based on what feels to you like it would probably be the case, back to tumblr/ pol with you.
>>5505044
I fucking hope you're a troll, if not, eat shit.
Kid's gonna go through puberty one way or another. Let 'em go through the kind they want, or get blockers until they decide one way or another.
I think we're done here, yeah?
>>5505044
desu, from what i have seen about trans people, i don't give a shit if a 5 year old wants to wear a dress
>>5507294
not saying he should just tstraight up say he is a girl, just saying he should be allowed to wear a dress as he is confused at the moment
>>5505584
This is the future.
>>5507343
>People pointing out that IRL nothing is done till adolecence and then that's solely puberty delaying and reversible = belligerent
>Nonexistent baby sex change strawmen = well thought
Interesting reality
Man we have a bunch of salty hons in this thread jelly of the kid transitioners. Y'all are pathetic.
>>5505280
>Can't develop proper hormones caused by puberty which heavily sways the thoughts in male/female minds.
By delaying hormones you are hurting their development you fucking moron. Children's psychology is extremely fragile. All damage in those years are irreversible.
21 yo MtF here.
I always hated all girl toys and dolls. Action figures and awesome boy toys is were its at. I also fix cars and motorcycles. It's fun!
That doesn't mean I cant look, sound, dress, and have the mannerisms of a girl.
>>5507873
I think making someone go through a puberty they shouldn't be going through is more damaging
I work with children ages 3-6 a lot, and when we play I do what I did when I was a kid. Use all the toys, action figures, Lego, dolls, stuffed toys, the whole shebang and make the kids play different roles with the toys so we're sort of making a movie or a play.
If some of the kids doesn't want to play with something because one toy is for girls or boys, I make everyone be part of a conversation about whether there really is something called girl toys or boy toys. They quickly agree that there isn't and they end up having a ton of fun. It's fun seeing how each toy can at one moment be a pirate and the next moment be a unknown animal we have to capture for the zoo. Kids have almost unlimited imagination and it makes me sad when people push boundaries on their playfulness by gender limiting stupid plastic toys.
>>5507910
They should be anon. That is why the body is doing it. Postponing natural processes because muh feels is retarded. Sure, they might want to change later and that is fine. Doing it during THE MOST IMPORTANT stage of life is retarded. Not only that, since a lot of this is relatively untested. The actual effects on the mind and body is also relatively unknown.
>>5505044
I started to transition at 21 and I wish I had known not all trannies are hons earlier. My childhood was mostly about creative toys and games rather gendered ones and I can honestly say I had no idea I wanted to transition until puberty started to do unwelcome changes.
If a kid wants to get "girls toys" and clothes sure why the fuck not, being a kid is a carefree time and you shouldn't even have to worry about gender stuff. I wouldn't start labeling them as transgender until puberty at which point they can be given hormone blockers under supervision of a medical professional if the teen wants them. Continue that until they're old enough to consent for the full thing, could be around the age of 16 or something.
>>5507962
Appeal to nature. Puberty begins at different times for different persons - a few months delay matters less than you credit it with.
And no, lupron has been very rigorously tested. The effects are well known.
>>5507990
>Appeal to nature?
The fuck is this as an argumentative tool. Nature is EXACTLY what we should look to as inquiring minds. It is what scientists, philosophers, and historians look to.
>inb4 appeal to authority.
It comes to every person to weigh the words of a mentally ill faggot on the internet against thousands of years of thought and evolution. No anon, this is not a strawman. You are a faggot and you choose to believe that nature is at best trivial to thought on critical biological processes. I have to assume you suffer from mental degradation.
>>5507990
Testing the full effects on humans takes 20 years. Are you telling me this has been tested for 15+ years? Or are you just saying that they shot up a bunch of rats until you were satisfied?
>>5508053
How do I come back with better than the natural order of biological processes?
http://www.mastersmensclinic.com/Its%20Importance.htm
>Mentally ill faggot proving my point.
>>5505114
Making a ftm kid grow boobs is pretty cruel though.
>>5508022
All we can learn from nature is how nature works. It says nothing about what is right or best. Pretty much what sets humans apart from other species is our ability to defy nature.
>>5508084
Not sure what that's supposed to show. We know testosterone has effects, many of them positive. But that site does not in any way refute the claim that making trans people go through the "wrong" puberty is harmful.
>>5506179
Muh feels > your "facts".
I KNOW they're forcing little kids to transition to serve the conspiracy!
>>5507873
>you are hurting their development you fucking moron. Children's psychology is extremely fragile
And we should TOTALLY listen to some 4chan anon for the medical specifics instead of trained professionals right? :^)
>>5505044
>Seems like child abuse to me, probably wacko liberal single moms leading their kids to do this for attention due to that munchausens by proxy mental disorder.
I'm guessing that you're gonna get a lot of hate for that, but I'll be honest and say that I've never seen one of these kids who had any other parent situation than a highly-feminist single mother. It's hard not to see a connection.
>>5505094
>obvious joke
>all responses are massive asshurt spergenheims
If only trannies wouldn't exist, trannies wouldn't have such a bad name. Jesus, you guys.
>>5506179
I don't mean wait until 11 before we let them transition medically. I'm talking wait until they're 11 until we start calling them transgender. I highly doubt a 6 year-old boy is capable of fulling understanding all the implications of what they say if, for example, they "want to be a princess." Let them wear dresses and play with dolls, if they want. Let them grow up with more girl friends than boy friends if they take more easily to girls. Just be extremely careful about stepping over the line of labelling them trans, because once you start providing acceptance and support for that "life decision" (which it's not), you are subtly reinforcing that idea in them when, for some children, it may legitimately be a phase. If a boy/girl says they feel like or want to be a girl/boy, ask them why.
>>5507962
>>5508022
Uh, you realize Europeans and others with better diets have late puberties by American standards and they grow to be substantially taller and healthier for it. Don't see how pushing back someone's puberty to euro timelines will hurt.
http://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thelancet.com%2Fjournals%2Flaneur%2Farticle%2FPIIS1474-4422%252810%252970182-4%2Fabstract%3Fcc%3Dy%3D
Also, lup has been tested everywhere.
It's really no more dangerous than placebo. It's not your place to meddle in established medicine that benefits others when you don't have the slightest but if training or knowledge on the pharma.
>>5508694
Docs literally just call them gender nonconfoing children till adolescence. You've been fooled by the histerical straw men pol slings around.
>>5507962
>Postponing natural processes because muh medical condition is retarded
>I know better from muh feels than all those kids and parents and dumb-dumb fancy-pants college-educated doctors and scientists
>>5508022
Yeah, why should we listen to your mentally ill faggotry instead of the actual doctors?
>>5508690
I'm sure you work in a field where you've carefully researched every single case and totally aren't just projecting your feels based on a handful of examples that get a lot of media exposure and spin to grab viewer's/reader's attentions.
And yeah, it's not hard to see a connection where there is none when you're a feels-driven retard instead of someone who looks at actual data and statistics.
>>5508933
B-but /pol/ only tells the TRUF and never lies about le degenerate menace!!1!!!
>>5508690
Assuming correlation implies causation is highly unscientific, especially when you're working with anecdotal data. And regardless, it's very rare for people to actually fully transition at such a young age anyway.
>>5505044
if a kid at the age of 13 feels trans they should get pube blockers(what way if they are cis they will just be late bloomers)
>>5507343
liberals don't like to use facts to support their opinions because facts don't support their opinions
it's much easier to shit on people to discredit them
>>5509755
>call doctors shills, insist safe medicine be criminalized and disregard overwhelming evidence on safety and reversibility
>don't like facts
Funniest projection, ever.
>>5505044
Growing up in a two-parent, traditional household I was aware of my gender dysphoria as early as age four, and was shipped around to various psychologist for my entire childhood because I quickly learned how to distrust people
Now my life is garbage because everyone only wants to fix me instead of understanding me
