What is the most effective way to meet pre-op trans women? The dating sites I've used either barely have any or have no way to search for them exclusively. Would I have to move to a more densely populated area or am I just using the wrong resources?
>>5484794
I should probably mention my location: Orange County, California
>>5484794
More population density helps. A moderate estimate puts 1/333 humans as trans.
That said, OK Cupid allows you to specifically search for trans people. Standard caveat: not everyone marks that they are trans for search purposes, but instead divulge the information in their profile.
How is it that someone new asks this exact question every night?
>>5485020
>How is it that someone new asks this exact question every night?
Sorry, didn't realize I was asking a tired question. It's most likely because the main demographic interested in trans women is men who identify as straight thus wouldn't have a reason to be a regular on /lgbt/.
>>5485054
It's not a problem, I'm just amazed at the regularity of it. You'd think it would be a general by now.TransAttractedGeneral, possibly? Well. With 1-2 interested parties daily, I guess it wouldn't survive as a general.
>>5484809
Orange county? That should be easy as fuck cause LA is right there. Looking for more relationship or hook up?
How about stop being a chaser looking to fuck somebody because of a fetish?
>>5486569
He's not being a chaser, is being into redheads a fetish? Is being into DFC a fetish? Is being into feet a fetish?
Fuck off, he's trans attracted, don't shame him for it you bitch.
>>5486612
>Is being into feet a fetish?
Yes. The other ones are debatable.
>how to meet trans
Go to trans support groups or gender clinics. There aren't any other places that people who are trans specifically go to.
>>5486612
>trans attracted
lol so this is what chasers call themselves to sound less creepy
>don't shame him
fuck off with that SJW phrase, you are clearly another chaser or an AGP freak looking for chasers using those buzzwords to try and gain acceptance. won't work.
>>5486664
>an AGP freak
I don't know why you would insult them, these are the majority of trans people. Most transwomen don't admit it, just many transwomen won't admit if their SRS results were a bust but it doesn't stop it from being true.
Also shaming chasers is silly, they're the majority of men that want us, the average "straight" man doesn't want to fuck us.
>>5486664
All dis trolling
>>5484794
Nobody wants to meet you.
Trans women may want to meet a man who doesn't care about their genitalia, i.e. fine either.
But nobody that isn't an escort, or a gold digger, wants a chaser.
>>5486743
Lol look at this guy. He still believes he's a normal woman and that a white knight will save him from his degenerate homo existence.
You will always be a second choice. Deal with this and be happier with yourself.
>>5484794
At a SRS clinic. She might not be preop for more than a few hours, but you know for a fact she's still preop for these few hours.
>>5486938
>le nice guy chaser starts thinking he's the best thing since sliced bread
I have three friends who just got married right out of uni, one is planning to do it before her master's. None of them with a chaser.
>>5486559
>Looking for more relationship or hook up?
Either, but most likely the latter.
And jeez, why is there such a stigma against being attracted to women with penises on here? I like women but I also like penises, so why shouldn't I try to seek out people with both of those features? Whatever you want to call it - fetish, preference, or orientation - what harm is there in me pursuing it as long as I'm up-front about it?
>>5488215
>And jeez, why is there such a stigma against being attracted to women with penises on here?
The "stigma" isn't because you're attracted to the woman with the penis, chances are you aren't. The stigma is that you're attracted to penis on a woman and we all know it could honestly be any woman. That's how all chasers work.
>I'm different
They also all say that.
>>5486832
>Trans women may want to meet a man who doesn't care about their genitalia
What's really the difference as long as you accept their gender identity? How would the sex/relationship change if the man involved is attracted to the penis compared to an ordinary straight man? Is it because the woman may want to remove the penis?
>>5486743
>Explicitly searching only for pre-op transwomen is creepy
It's an interest I have, and I'm unlikely to find one on accident (even finding a non-trans girl isn't easy for me). Why is it creepy? Is hooking up with someone because you like something about them physically creepy? Is it also creepy to search for women specifically instead of all sexes because liking someone for their genitalia is wrong? Is hooking up in general wrong because you like that person for their appearance and not their personality? I don't get why the same rules of hooking up and dating wouldn't apply universally.
>>5488352
>How would the sex/relationship change if the man involved is attracted to the penis compared to an ordinary straight man?
He's a fetishist, that will be disgusting in bed, and the relationship will be shallow.
While the no fetishist will be nice in bed, and can have an actual relationship with her.
>>5486832
>But nobody that isn't an escort, or a gold digger, wants a chaser.
escort here
I don't want a chaser either, but the single nights of pretending I do put a roof over my head. The bae is about as far from my clients as possible.
>>5486569
Chasers are all you are going to get, no one will truly see you as a woman.
>>5488374
>He's a fetishist, that will be disgusting in bed, and the relationship will be shallow.
In what way would the sex be disgusting?
Otherwise, I don't see the logic here. Firstly, what if it's just casual sex? Secondly, it's possible to be attracted to someone physically and emotionally at the same time. If you have a preference for a certain race or body type and find someone that meets that preference it doesn't mean you can't have a real relationship with them, and physical attraction is good in a relationship.
>>5488438
Chasers don't respect boundaries and would insist on doing stuff with her genitals, which she is most likely not comfortable with. They're all together manipulative cunts that think they can bully insecure trans girls into being their sex toys. It's creepy.
>>5488417
>Chasers are all you are going to get, no one will truly see you as a woman.
kek, sure, I also bet you're a nice guy.
>>5488518
Do trans women really not like having their genitals stimulated? I thought pleasure from genital stimulation was a human constant.
If you are a chaser, you should try to come across as non chaser-ish as possible, so most transgirls would be more receptive to you and seem like you're a normal dude or dudette(I'm sure female ones exist).
>>5488377
>the bae
Ya Im sure you snagged a catch hon, who wouldn't want a transsexual hooker for a gf
>>5488568
>I thought pleasure from genital stimulation was a human constant
So you're a chaser and a virgin, I see.
>>5488627
>hon
I'm sure it satisfies some deep resentment, but most clients want someone who is basically stealth tier.
>implying I still escort after meeting him
Your naivete is very precious.
>>5488633
Every woman and man I've been with has like having their genitals played with.
>>5488643
Still a whore
>>5488651
Let's be honest here: you probably think that of all women. Your purest pure futa love only exists in manga.
Why are the trans women ITT so mean? We just want to give you love.
>>5488723
Mostly because these are non-passable hons and toxic SJW.
Go to Asia and you will find loving trans everywhere.
>>5488723
>We just want to give your cocks love
Fucking autocorrect, right?
>>5488627
>who wouldn't want a transsexual hooker for a gf
guys who dont want aids mostly
>>5488749
>Go to Asia and you will find loving trans everywhere.
>Loving prostitutes
omg I'm dying, she says this shit so you pay better. She's 99% sure to get the chop too.
>>5488756
By that logic, straight men just want to give vaginas love.
>>5488215
if just a hook-up do craigslist. Post ads yourself. You don't have to include your face just a body shot and if yours is nice enough you will get responses. Also don't post dick pics you will only get responses from men. As far as responding to ads, don't be afraid to respond to those that don't show their face or even ones that did not include a picture( you can always end communication if you aren't interested after seeing what she looks like). Unless they are an escort, a lot of girls that are really passable live their life as cis women and thus don't want to publicly advertise their face on a t4m hookup board.
Also I hope your are only into topping because its going to be way more difficult if you want a trans girl to fuck you.
If you want a relationship you'll have more success if :
> you don't obsess or even put that much emphasis on liking that she is trans
> you only want to top during sex
> if you want to touch or suck her dick you better ask first and be okay with it if she says no
> genuinely be supportive of her if she wants to get SRS
>>5488832
Thank you. That was really helpful.
>>5486832
>>5488256
good information. Transwomen are a vulnerable group, so we tend to be very skeptical of chasers intent lest we put ourselves in danger. Someone being so kinked out by our specific body characteristics raises some red flags.
>>5488568
No. Due to dysphoria, many transwomen will not enjoy contact with their penis. They either need to build up a lot of trust and comfort with you to do it (won't happen if you're only 'hooking up') or else you just have to stimulate other erogenous zones. Many will like anal a lot because getting pounded by a man is gender validating.
Well OP, I can't know you well enough to decide whether you're a creeper or not, but I think most people you contact will do their due diligence. My advice is to go on a dating website with a trans options in the gender or partner parameter. There's a lot of transwomen on those sites waiting for a decent guy to message them.
>>5488904
>getting pounded by a man is gender validating
ngl, the orgasm is better than any validation coming out of it.
>>5486664
What should I do if I don't find vaginas sexually attractive but only find femininity sexually attractive? Become a eunuch?
It'd be nice to find a stable trans woman who I click with and who doesn't want to get rid of her dick. I've dated one girl who fell into this category but she was extremely clingy.
>>5488912
But transgirls can't cum without getting their dicks touched anon, so how can they orgasm if they don't like getting their dicks touched?
>>5488926
>I've dated one girl who fell into this category but she was extremely clingy.
You should've kept on to her senpai, the chances of you finding another one is incredibly small.
Have fun with vaginas after you give up looking for trannies.
>>5488957
>cumming is necessary for an orgasm
>implying you can't cum hands free anyway
Do you have more virginal questions like that? I just need to make sure whether you'd make an appropriate sacrifice.
>>5488761
>prostitutes
Shows where you come from. The current trans girl I date from Asia is a sales executive in fashion design company, my previous one was a IT expert.
It you think trans are all prostitutes it only speaks about your background.
>>5488970
I'm pretty sure the person you responded to was being sarcastic.
>>5488972
You're literally telling someone to chase asian trans girls, usually that implies sex tourism.
>>5484809
>Fetlife
>>5486569
>not wanting to fuck transgirls: transphobe
>wanting to fuck transgirls: chaser
Help me out here, ladies. Really, I mean no offense, but as someone who likes transgirls but doesn't fetishize them (I like trans and cisgirls the same; I don't differentiate) I have to say that no everyone who is interesting in transgirls is a chaser. The way I understand it most chasers are into the whole "getting fucked" bit, i.e. they're into the penis more than the lady.
>>5486612
>Is being into feet a fetish.
Yes. And all fetishes can lead one to objectify people and see them only as an outlet for one's desire. But this need not happen: someone can have a fetish even for transgirls without it being malign; as long as one understands that there's an actual person there and not a fucktoy that's only there for one's own pleasure.
>>5489025
>not wanting to fuck transgirls: transphobe
Literally who said that here
>>5489016
It was my understanding that Fetlife is just social media for people with kinks and no one (except guys) wants to meet people on there.
>>5486627
But would it not be wierd for a straight cisdude to just walk into a place meant specifically to be safe and comforting for transgirls and just be like "sup I'm looking to get my dick wet"?
>>5486664
Please explain to me than what you want here? I mean I'm not allowed to dislike transpeople because that's transphobic but I'm not allowed to like them either? And what defines a "chaser" anyway, i.e. what separetes an acceptable case of a straight guy liking a transgirls from "chaser"?
>>5489028
Not that guy, but isn't it a bit of a catch-22 for a trans girl to only like ordinary straight guys and not guys who like penises? Almost every ordinary straight guy will be turned off by the penis, and if they turn away the guys who are into it, then who's left?
>>5486743
>Explicitly searching only for pre-op transwomen
So it's the specificity of it that is creepy? So if a guy is just open minded and doesn't care either way, that would be OK with you?
Personally I'm not a chaser in that I would never objectify a woman. But I am more curious about transgirls than cisgirls simply because I've never been with one. Now I'm making it sound like a transgirl is just an object to satisfy my curiousity, but that's not it at all. I just feel like there's an experience that I'm missing there, like I've shut myself of from a whole spectrum of women for most of my life due to prejudice and insecurity and now that I've matured I'd like to rectify that. Not by "chasing" but by just being more open. I mean I'm also more curious about white girls but for the same reason: I've never been with one before. I don't fetishise or objectify. At least I try not to.
>>5487377
>None of them with a chaser.
That's great. But what makes those guys not chasers? I'm just trying to understand here so I don't hurt or insult someone...
>>5489074
>That's great. But what makes those guys not chasers?
They don't give a shit about their tinklers and two of them are with guys who initially thought they were cis.
>>5489032
Pfft speak for yourself.
I almost hooked up with a raunchy attractive cd but she only toook it bareback so I wasnt interested.
Almost hooked up with a cool femmeboy but our schedules didnt click but we were both interested.
Ive talked to several other transgirls from around the country.
And there was that one nasty hon, did not want.
>>5488352
>I don't get why the same rules of hooking up and dating wouldn't apply universally.
I'm guessing, and I'm only learning here, that it's because you are A) going for one of the most marginalized and oppressed groups in the world and B) you are attracted specifically to a feature of them that they are uncomfortable with
>>5488374
>nice in bed
Meaning...?
>>5488377
That makes you the perfect person to answer: what in your view separates the chaser from the guy who just likes you for who you are, and how does a guy avoid coming off as being the former when he wants to be the latter?
>>5489092
Overemphasis on the tinkler
Overemphasis on her femininity, especially if you compliment that instead of actually complimenting her
Pressuring her into sex acts she might agree to, especially anything involving her junk
In general overemphasizing that she's trans
Like, only the ones who just went ft and have no contact with other trannies will get fooled by most of this shit, even toned down for subtlety. Like someone as a person first, not as an identity. It just makes us feel interchangeable.
>>5489028
No one said it, but I personally believe that if someone completely avoids having sex with trans people SPECIFICALLY because they are trans, then they show transphobic tendencies. (Like, if someone doesn't want to have sex with a certain ethnicity for no other reason then them being that ethnicity, wouldn't that be a bit racist?)
>>5489079
Fuck that's a relief. I was sitting here thinking I'm a creepy chaser deep down. Felt fucking awful. I have no interest in cocks at all and would treat a transgirl like any other girl.
Being bisexual is creepy now I guess. Kek, fuckin' trannies.
>>5489107
Thank you for the response. I'm really learning here. I've been prejudice against dating transwomen in the past but I feel like I've moved on from that, and it really helps knowing how to not make someone feel bad or hurt them, especially since transgirls are so vulnerable/marginalized to begin with. Don't want to be the asshat kicking on somone who's already down, you know?
>what defines a "chaser" anyway
This question is such bullshit I get why parents lie about how babies are born
"Cis chasers" also exist, we just call them chads. Chasers are the trans equivalent.
>>5489118
>if someone completely avoids having sex with trans people SPECIFICALLY because they are trans, then they show transphobic tendencie
LOL, thats like saying gays are heterophobic because they prefer pee pee to vagina.
>>5489145
>"Cis chasers" also exist, we just call them chads. Chasers are the trans equivalent.
I sure hope I'm not a chaser 'cause then I'd had to go ahead and kill myself. Better dead than a fucking Chad...
> gays are heterophobic bullshit
You assume transwomen are some special third gender as opposed to, you know, WOMEN. If I am a straight man then I have a preference for women. The history of those women should not matter as far as my straightness is concerned. If I avoid all asian women BECAUSE they are asian then I diplay racist tendencies; if I avoid all transwomen BECAUSE they are trans then I display transphobic tendencies. But if I avoid all men then I am simply being a straight guy. Catfish?
>>5489128
What being bisexual is creepy now? When did that happen, also what does it have do with trans people?
>>5489118
>I personally believe that if someone completely avoids having sex...
Not the same as actively seeking out trannies, exclusively or not. You're in a grey area, but you seem to generally have good intentions so personally I would be open or trusting of you.
>postin in a chaser thread
Y'all are helpin a chaser.
>>5489166
>If I avoid all asian women BECAUSE they are asian then I diplay racist tendencies
Some people just don't have a boner for asian bodies or traits, thats not related to "I dont like nips because reasons". Subconscious 101.
>>5489232
Definitely is.
>>5488438
>In what way would the sex be disgusting?
"ohohohohohoh penis penis, so hot, penis, fuck dat ass, man I gotta stare at that penis" and maybe some "oh man I wanna get fucked by dat dick maen, or maybe suck it"
>>5489092
>Meaning...?
That he's doing foreplay, and sexing like he would with any other girl.
>>5489232
Having a preference is understandable. Avoiding all people from a certain group, i.e. determining before hand that one will not ever be intrested in any member of that group for any reason, is another thing. I've never been that into white women and have never been with one; I like a nice big ass and white women tend to be lacking in that department, generally speaking. I would however gladly be with a white girl if the right one came along; I'm not rejecting the idea completely.
>That he's doing foreplay, and sexing like he would with any other girl.
Cool. I'm not a Chaddy-bro-type chaser then. I get to not kill myself tonight.
>>5489247
>"ohohohohohoh penis penis, so hot, penis, fuck dat ass, man I gotta stare at that penis" and maybe some "oh man I wanna get fucked by dat dick maen, or maybe suck it"
Liking a girl's penis doesn't have to be the polar opposite of being completely indifferent about it.
>>5489247
>That he's doing foreplay, and sexing like he would with any other girl.
newsflash most guys don't know how to pleasure women and most don't care past just fucking her
also lots of women perpetuate this
Girl was over the other day and she was begging for me to fuck her we did some foreplay and genital play etc but i said i wouldn't fuck her and she was so distraught she would have been happy if all i did was pump and go to sleep like wtf is wrong with women?
>>5488764
they do, assuming theyre the type to reject a transwoman because she doesnt have one.
thats the point. you either care about genitals or you dont. caring makes you a chaser, dick, pussy, or otherwise.
>>5488683
Oh Im not a chaser. I am a trans woman ;)
>>5488761
Thats not true at all. Lots of asian mtfs don't do sex work at all and just look for a loving western partner to take them out of their country. There are lots of asian mtfs who just want to be the best wife possible to some man. I know some
>>5490015
Sure thing.
I'm a feminine gay guy who can pass as a girl with makeup on. I also got a big dong and have no trouble of using it.
Should I just pretend I'm trans, get a boobjob and fuck chasers? Other regular gays hate me for being feminine and I'm not attracted to effeminate gays either, and even most "manly" gays are clearly putting an effort to conceal their inner faggot. Chasers come off as a lot more naturally masculine.
>salty trannies itt giving you a bad name
fuuuuck mane
>>5491608
There are worse things you could do, but I doubt this course of action leads to great joy.
Advise letting go of internalized homophobia first, if able. It's cheaper and will probably be more comfortable in the long run.
>>5491694
>not attracted to effeminate men
>hurr durr must be internalized homophobia!!!
>>5491700
No, that's not the thing that makes it obvious. It's this line:
>even most "manly" gays are clearly putting an effort to conceal their inner faggot
You're biased against other gay men - unfairly so - as you assume a near omnipresence of a quality you find distasteful in them. Deal with it or don't, but don't be too surprised when other people call you on it.
>>5491608
if you are not attached to your maleness then this could actually be a good course of action
do you think you may be sort of gender fluid or somthing?
Anyway,as long as you just do as you said you may not even need hormones i know there are some people who transition a bit mostly for men but end up realizing they were kind of trans all along but still liked their dick etc.
>>5491522
>>5488761
racist assumptions about cultures you know nothing about
You are projecting because trans people could not possibly be treated different in a "lesser" country because the west is the best meme
Two things about thais
They don't think of whoring as different to flipping burgers it's just a job, they were never colonized so they still have old thai values
Trans women are mostly in other forms of work but because sex work is easy money man men women and trans people do it but they are only 3-5% of those populations
Most trans girls work in retail and trans girls from wealthy families go to university and get corporate jobs
For the most part trans people are just normal
also the vast majority of trans women in Asia especially Thailand and Philippines like men who are particularly attracted to trans women for all these reasons Asian but specifically Thai trans girls are top tier, regardless of what they look like.
All those delusional trannies who think normal heterosexual men will like them. Face it, if someone wanted woman, they would get a real woman, not a man in dress.
>>5484794
chaser go home
>>5484794
Whoa, that's the cutest mtf I've seen in my life.
>>5491946
True enough, but there's still a difference between someone who actually sees you as a person and treats you as a valid romantic partner rather than merely a fetish fuel sex toy.
>>5489871
Or it makes you, idk, normal. Fucking trannies keep redefining the terms of the debate to suit their narcissistic ideals. You want someone to desire you, but its gross when they're actually attracted to you for reasons most people are attracted to others.
Yeah genitals aren't everything, but you're fighting an uphill battle if you think you're going to change people's understanding of how sexual orientation works. Some people barely understand being gay. You want to make it so that nobody can express their sexual orientation because its inconvenient for you and breaks the illusion of your gender roleplaying.
At least ftms are honest about lesbians and their desire for hairy mangina. But when a guy is into a transwoman in the same way he's a borderline psycho that people compare to a pedo? Its fucking insane. Accept that you will never be normal you autistic fucks.
It sure would be nice if these threads never devolved into everyone being awful to one-another. Communication might even happen. At least it sounds like OP was mature enough to avoid getting dragged into it.
>>5488549
Yea am a nice guy, you wouldn't know I was a chaser if you met me and i'll never tell. I like all women, including ones with dicks. That's just the kind of person I am, toots.
>>5491608
No? You can't just fuck your own body up forever AND harm the trans cause AND trick people and lie for the rest of your life. Go CD or something; lots of guys want an feminine twink or 'girly boy' they can dominate.
>>5491946
Some of see transwomen as just as much "real" as any other. They are neither a second-choice because one could not get a 'real' girl nor just a fetish. Sad that you can't comprehend that.
>>5492020
Being attracted to a specific part of someone's body as opposed to the whole makes that person feel objectified; like its that part that matters and they are interchangable. Hell, girls will feel uncomfortable if you're too much into their feet, tits, ass, whatever. No one wants to be just a body part; everyone wants to be a person.
Now if you like a transwoman as a whole and her having that 'special something' is part of what you like (but in no way the fundamental reason), that's another thing. Ask yourself this: if she where not trans but cis, and still the same exact person other than that, would you still be into her?
>>5494488
>Some of see transwomen as just as much "real" as any other. They are neither a second-choice because one could not get a 'real' girl nor just a fetish. Sad that you can't comprehend that.
delusion
>>5494543
son, why are you even here?
>>5494488
>Being attracted to a specific part of someone's body as opposed to the whole makes that person feel objectified
It's not that one body part, though. It's the fact that they have that *in addition to* breasts and feminine features that makes guys attracted.
This isn't target at you, but I don't like the implication I'm seeing all over this thread that liking a certain combination of body parts somehow makes someone a bad person and automatically means they want to worship their penis and not treat them like a human being. It's not wrong to want to be with a girl with a penis, or a girl with huge tits, or a guy with a giant cock, or a short person, or a tall person, or whatever you're into as long as you aren't an asshole about it.
>>5495603
>as you aren't an asshole about it.
hear, hear
>>5486664
Fuck off with that "AGP freak" shit. I am a bi trans women and non-operative.
I like to date cis and trans women and generally gender queer people.
You do not speak for or frame the experience of every transgender person.
Considering how I am strongly attracted to gender queer people, especially some of the women I have met down here in Miami that identify as queer or the dreaded “shemale” it makes me fucking sick to me stomach to be called a “chaser” just because of what I find attractive.
Furthermore, quite pretending you're something special with that arrogant sense of human exceptionalism.
Homo sapiens sapiens in the modern world are objects. Objectifying bodies is not wrong.
It is completely possible to objectify someone’s body and still be attracted to who they are on a more developed level.
>>5491841
This.
>>5501896
I hope that some day you learn just how wrong all of this is.
Good luck.
>>5501896
time to go back to tumblr.
>>5484794
>>5488832
OP this is one of the only semi-relevant and sane posts ITT, the rest of this bullshit is just virgins arguing about sex 2bh familia. I will make a more detailed post to address your original Q.
Secondly to the anon that posted asking if there were ChaserGens there have been, but EXACTLY what happened ITT happens in them. Bitter disgusting Hons, and AGP fags shit up the threads with nonsense and try to prevent any of the tru-trans from chatting with the "chasers".
OP the first advice I will give you is to learn to identify Hons and AGP trash on this board, these people will N E V E R like you so just ignore them. Do not try to engage them with questions or take their bait; just learn the key phrases and concepts they talk about and fucking ignore them like the trash they are.
OK onto your original Q which was "most effective way" so basically you are asking how/where combined. The how is similar to getting with cis females.... RAISE YOUR VALUE.
>do you have an education?
>do you have a job that matches or exceeds your education level?
>how physically /fit/ are you?
>do you have an interesting personality? (can you talk about normie shit for 5 fucking minutes without spilling spaghetti?)
>do you have interesting hobbies, or abilities? (video games and animu collections dont count pham)
>does ANYBODY (besides your mom) actually like you?
You should ask yourself basic questions like this to assess where you are in life, the more of your shit you have "together" the easier things get when it comes to looking for sexual partners. How many cis girls are you fucking? If no cis girls want to be with you, then why would any trans girls want to be with you? Any improvement is good, even if you live with your parents, or have other meme tier problems you can make the best of the situation by being enrolled in college, having a part time job, going to the gym, etc. Baby steps pham, small realistically achievable progress adds up over time.
>>5503131
(cont)
The "where" is slightly complex as trans girls arent as easy to find as cis girls; however with you saying that you live in Orange County, breh that is tranny central. You live in the Los Angeles metro area pham its the 2nd largest urban area in the US.... you cannot get more "densely populated" than that, what in the literal fuck are you talking about? If you are just searching for people in your shitty little suburb, then have you considered expanding your search area?
>INB4 b-b-but anon I dont have a car :3
As the other anon mentioned Craigslist is decent in metro areas/university towns for hookups. Be forewarned though if you dont have a nice body nobody will want to hookup with you. Same generally goes for the normie dating sites like PoF and OKC. Seriously it comes down to value if no one wants to be with you, you need to honestly evaluate why that is and work towards addressing those issues.
If you are completely desperate and just need a tranny to fuck, then you can find cheap hookers on Backpage. My warning here is that 90%+ of prostitutes are absolutely shit tier people, the other 10% will eventually become shit tier people. However if you look better than the average client some hookers will try to get to know you better, invite you to parties, introduce you to their friends, etc and you can network from there. I did this and it was OKish if you want to know more about their shitty lives, ultimately I advise you stay away from hookers though for real pham.
You can also look for KIK/Skype/messageboard groups for local trans... hell you can even hit up trans girls here on /lgbt/ I have familia :^)
>>5484794
i am one, and i most likely keep the cock but honestly i dont need more friends who live far away and im most likely never to meet.
>>5503138
So basically what you do with your life is chasing trans girls? Phew ... and I thought being trans was depressing.
>>5486612
>He's not being a chaser, is being into redheads a fetish? Is being into DFC a fetish? Is being into feet a fetish?
Technically, a fetish is something without someone can not get sexual arousal. What you're talking about are kinks.
>>5484809
are you hot? I'm in socal too and I'm down for a hook up if you're good looking, but me food, and not a total weirdo. post some contact info
>>5489044
It's symptom of their predicament, of being batshit insane and dumb as fuck.
>>5501896
>Homo sapiens sapiens in the capitalist world are objects.
Fixed that for you.
>It is completely possible to objectify someone’s body and still be attracted to who they are on a more developed level.
No, since the definition of objectification is precisely that you cannot relate to someone on a deeper level. It's like saying that it's possible to "be wet and still remain dry". Now clearly you can be both physically and mentally/spiritually/etc attracted to someone, but that isn't objectification. Objectification is when a person is like an object to you, i.e. interchangable. I don't care about the specific toothbrush or phone or whatever I have, I just need A toothbrush or A phone and more or less any one that meets my critieria will do. To objectify is to ignore everything that makes a person a person; it stripps people of themselves and makes them THINGS. It IS wrong to anyone to whom people matter in any way other than purely instrumentally (i.e. how they can be used).
>>5503131
>the first advice I will give you is to learn to identify Hons and AGP trash on this board, these people will N E V E R like you so just ignore them. Do not try to engage them with questions or take their bait; just learn the key phrases and concepts they talk about and fucking ignore them like the trash they are.
Could you explain what "hons" and "AGP trash" are and what key phrases they use? Thank you also for an informative post senpai, really helpful.
>>5503138
>hell you can even hit up trans girls here on /lgbt/ I have familia
Wise sensei, teach us your ways...
>>5502602
So my identity and the identity of my friends are wrong because you say so. Yeah okay, fuck off.
>>5505211
I'm pretty sure anon was refering to your "objectification is A-OK!" stance, rather than your identity, which really had nothing to do with your position as such.
>>5504992
>Capitalist World
What exactly is wrong with Capitalism?
>No, since the definition of objectification is precisely that you cannot relate to someone on a deeper level. It's like saying that it's possible to "be wet and still remain dry"
Not if you differentiate between the person and the body and allocate periods of time to pure objectification.
Everyone I have ever remained in a long term relationship with started out as us objectifying each other as sexual objects, prey or something to control or be controlled by.
Anyone I dated that wanted the much meaningful stuff right off the bat was just boring.
>I don't care about the specific toothbrush or phone or whatever I have, I just need A toothbrush or A phone and more or less any one that meets my critieria will do.
I care immensely about my objects. They are tools, without tools human beings are nothing.
As far as humans being objects… even when we offer something emotionally to someone or have the need to be valued as a person isn’t that basically just being a social product.
We want love / companionship / security / ect. from other people because it fulfills an instrumental need. When we put ourselves on presentation for other to we are basically asking to be “bought” by them.
Honestly I don’t know what this “deeper level” of attraction meme really is. It seems kind of wooish to me.
>>5505219
I kind of figured that I after I go over the initial butthurt.
I don’t think objectification is completely okay, especially if it is aggressive and openly non-concesual…
I guess the way I have always seen it (especially following a lot of transhuman philosophy) is that human bodies are just biological objects that run a complex social / memetic / identity based program.
Also, when I find some I am submissively attracted to I want to be objectified by them at times (like a toy or a doll… I know I am fucked up) because it makes me feel useful.
>>5485086
Takes like 1.5 days to get pruned, it'd survive pretty well
>>5505276
>What exactly is wrong with Capitalism?
Exploitation of human beings, unjust and unsustinable division of wealth, unsustainable overexploitation of the natural world (including farm-land and wastesinks), continual crises, commodification of human relations, atomised decision-making (i.e. a lack of inherent direction for economic development, other than profit) as well the profit-motive placing a limit to the influence of ethics on decisions made, lack of democracy, conspicuous consumption that doesn't improve human well-being, destruction of certain traditional ways of life such as those of indigenous peoples, and need I continue?
>Not if you differentiate between the person and the body and allocate periods of time to pure objectification.
If you only objectify SOMETIMES you're not really objectifying; you are FOCUSING on different aspects of the whole person while remaining (in the back of your head) fully aware that this is a person and not a thing. Seeing someone as an object of sexual desire (either primarily or among other things) is not the same as "objectifying" in the sociological/philosophical sense, which refers to ONLY seeing them
Objectifying and being only shallowly attracted to someone sans the "deep stuff" are NOT the same thing - you can get hot for someone's body, bring them home and fuck them and ask them to leave without ever learning their name without even "objectifying" them. That is a case of just not being into the deep stuff at that moment. Objectifying means not acknowledning the existance of anything deeper at all. And yeah sure, sometimes we're all guilty of doing that to any individual person and that's OK I guess.
It becomes a problem when you objectify an entire class of people always, be that women in general or transwomen specifically. (I.e. any given person at any given moment = acceptable I guess ; EVERYONE of a certain class ALWAYS = problem)
I feel like the people that treat the interest in pre op trans women are only speaking from the one angle and its the angle of, a mtf guarding the nature of her genitals at any cost because of their inherent right to... and this is where theres the fuck up because to me it still seems like those people are viewing gender as an either or.. a this or that with the mirage of a gender spectrum.
its also glossing over the fact that a lot of trans women dont ever get exposed to intellectual or theoretical discussion on gender...
im trans and i like having my cock. the only way i ever really consider having op is down the line... way down the line. when maybe just maybe i really become totally mentally detached from it [then literally lel].
but honestly the only way i found solace in being trans was thinking of myself as third~ gender. i know thats still sort of black and white [and grey] but really its where i feel right. im a chick wit a dick. i know thats what i am and what im attracted to also. im not saying there arent creeps who creep. but thats the ground every single on of these discussions take place on. over generalized and isolated at the same time. idk. fuc u suck my chick dick.
>>5484794
Who is this? She's hot.
>>5505276
>I care immensely about my objects. They are tools, without tools human beings are nothing.
Tools in general. Not specific tools. I lose my hammer I get another hammer. I lose my mother I can't just get another one. That's what separates an object from a person. Sometimes we can connect with objects like people; I lose my Donald Duck teddy I've had since I was 9 I can't just get another one. But sometimes we treat humans as objects; I can't get this one person at the club to go home with me so I go for another, i.e. treat them like they are interchangable. As I said, sometimes that's OK but not for entires classes of people and not always. Transwomen, and women in general, are sometimes scared of being objectified in the sense that they don't matter - the only thing that matters is the fact that they are a woman (with either a cock or a pussy).
>When we put ourselves on presentation for other to we are basically asking to be “bought” by them.
"Reification is the 'thingification' of social relations or of those involved in them, to the extent that the nature of social relationships is expressed by the relationships between traded objects".
This is the problem of capitalism I really wanted to talk about, the one relevant to the isse of objectification; it re-makes all in its own image, and transforms our human relations so that they appear only as yet another case of commodity exchange. Reality is put on its head: instead of people realising that all economic exchange is really just a specific form of SOCIAL exchange (since all production, trade, etc. is a social phenomenon), they begin to believe that social exchange is merely a form of economic exchange.
>>5505360
> human bodies are just biological objects that run a complex social / memetic / identity based program
Well you are technically correct of course; we are not magical nor part of the 'divine spark' or some hippe bullshit. We are objects made of matter like pencils or chairs or neutron stars. But we do have that sentience, and are thus MORE than JUST objects; my chair will not feel hurt, or feel anything, if I throw it out and get a new one. If I treat a friend like that, however...
>Also, when I find some I am submissively attracted to I want to be objectified by them at times (like a toy or a doll… I know I am fucked up) because it makes me feel useful.
I like both doing that to people and having that done to me. It's a game, a fantasy - it's completely allright and not at all real objectification in the way sociologists, feminists, trans-activists, political economists, etc. mean it.
>>5505491
But would you be OK if a guy was into you because, and ONLY because, you where a "chick with a dick"? He doesn't care about your eyes, or your tits or your ass - sure be might like them, but that's not why he's there. He certainly doesn't care about your personality. All he wants is a chick with a dick and you're here so you'll do, basically. And if you happened to have had surgery he'd be uninterested. Now I'm not saying guys like this are Satan the Devil, I just think a lot of people would be a bit uncomfortable with being someone's fetish fuel and that person caring only about one part of their body, regardless of whether its the feet of a cisgirls or the cock of a transgirl or the beard of a cisdude or whatever.
>>5505475
>Exploitation of human beings, unjust and unsustinable division of wealth, unsustainable overexploitation of the natural world (including farm-land and wastesinks), continual crises, commodification of human relations, atomised decision-making (i.e. a lack of inherent direction for economic development, other than profit) as well the profit-motive placing a limit to the influence of ethics on decisions made, lack of democracy, conspicuous consumption that doesn't improve human well-being, destruction of certain traditional ways of life such as those of indigenous peoples, and need I continue?
That sounds a lot like completely unregulated far right capitalism.
Aside from the commodification of human relations and basic consumerism I agree with you that those are all pressing issues.
I would argue that man relationship have alway been commodities if not for capital then for social currency or protection.
Conspicuous consumption of goods may not always improve an individuals well being if they are over indulgent but isn’t it arguably good to allow them to have the freedom to self destruct on their own terms then controlling their life…
Honestly I don’t know the answer here.
>destruction of certain traditional ways of life such as those of indigenous peoples,
This point is problematic for me as well. Capitalism was influenced by human need and industrialization and I can’t imagine it was some organized plot by a bunch of people in dark room somewhere specifically seeking to destroying indigenous people.
However not that capitalism and consumerism are global cultural norms isn’t it better to give these people a platform on which to assimilate (preferably on their own terms) then leaving them out of the loop?
I also think it’s a little silly just to protect a way of life because culture. A lot of these indigenous people’s cultures are rooted in woo, myth and have inequalities of their own.
>>5505630
>responding
yeah i mean you are literally describing what a cis woman goes through at the bar or at a coffee shop though. when you are looking to fuck or hookup or meet a stranger honestly that is the territory.
people on tinder are looking to fuck. people online are looking to fuck. people at the bar are looking to fuck. these a blanket statements but be real.
do i want those traits in a relationship? the person im with for a long time? no... you are right i dont want that attitude towards me. but when im sizing girls up from afar or online then yeah. its kind of about their bodies.
>>5505563
>"Reification is the 'thingification' of social relations or of those involved in them, to the extent that the nature of social relationships is expressed by the relationships between traded objects".
This is the problem of capitalism I really wanted to talk about, the one relevant to the isse of objectification; it re-makes all in its own image, and transforms our human relations so that they appear only as yet another case of commodity exchange. Reality is put on its head: instead of people realising that all economic exchange is really just a specific form of SOCIAL exchange (since all production, trade, etc. is a social phenomenon), they begin to believe that social exchange is merely a form of economic exchange.
I suppose I have never really seen social exchange an economic exchange as separate. They always appeared to be the same phenomenon to me.
Now, maybe I am naive. But this is the would I grew up in.
>Tools in general. Not specific tools. I lose my hammer I get another hammer. I lose my mother I can't just get another one.
It would be wonderful if you could though. I think their is where I am coming from when I talk about the kind of "objectification” or whatever you want to call it because it apparently don’t have a recognizable terminology.
When you view people or identities as objects or social commodities that you still have meaningful, sentient attachments to you take them out of this frame of reference where once you loose them they are gone forever.
I want to live in a society that seek to created products that can extended these peoples lives, protect their sentences of obliteration or give it a means of perpetrating of copy itself not just our of survival instinct but so that other people don’t have to loose social commodities permanently.
Maybe the line between object and personhood does not have to be so black and white.
>>5505634
>That sounds a lot like completely unregulated far right capitalism.
No, that's just the ESSENCE of capitalism. It doesn't look like that in most places because we control the fuck out of it and make it almost safe and acceptable. But if it wasn't for those checks and controls, that's how it would be. That's how it is in places where they relax controls.
>Conspicuous consumption of goods may not always improve an individuals well being if they are over indulgent but isn’t it arguably good to allow them to have the freedom to self destruct on their own terms then controlling their life…
Sure if it was only their own life. But like I said, production is a social phenomenon. What one person consumes others must produce, which wastes resources and causes pollution (resouces that could've gone to something different, more important) and also winds up as waste ultimatley. It's not about asserting control over individuals, not at all, but about social control over something that is inherently and undeniably social.
> Capitalism was influenced by human need and industrialization and I can’t imagine it was some organized plot by a bunch of people in dark room somewhere specifically seeking to destroying indigenous people.
Not at all, it most certainly wasn't. But indigenous ways of live, traditions and knowledge are either not compatible with or not valuable to capitalism and are therefore marginalized and eventually forgotten. This is what I said about atomistic decision-making; there is no direction, no grand plan, no order - everyone just pursues that profit (and if they don't, they lose in the competitive market and are replaced) and nothing is ever "on purpose". Capitalism isn't evil; it doesn't hate people or the environment or anything. It just can't take certain things into account because these things don't matter to it.
>>5505634
> A lot of these indigenous people’s cultures are rooted in woo, myth and have inequalities of their own.
True. Destruction of cultures isn't always bad. Even Marx credited capitalism for destoying feudalism and paving the way for liberal democracies.
>>5505679
"About their bodies" and "about one single part of their bodies I have a wierd fetish about" is not the same. I mean I don' judge, I like hooking up and I have several wierd fetishes that focus on specific bodyparts. I just understand how a person wants to be desired, even if it's just a bodily desire, for their whole body rather than just "oh, look, a dick". I feel like a lot of people defending objectification think that it means "liking someone for their bodies"; it isn't. It's in the word: treating someone like a god-damn object, not caring at all about them (or their pleasure, their feelings), being able to interchange them with litteraly anyone else fitting one's criteria, etc. Like I said, not an evil thing, just please understand not everyone is into being treated that way.
>>5505770
i do
>>5505630
>But would you be OK if a guy was into you because, and ONLY because, you where a "chick with a dick"? He doesn't care about your eyes, or your tits or your ass - sure be might like them, but that's not why he's there. He certainly doesn't care about your personality. All he wants is a chick with a dick and you're here so you'll do, basically. And if you happened to have had surgery he'd be uninterested. Now I'm not saying guys like this are Satan the Devil, I just think a lot of people would be a bit uncomfortable with being someone's fetish fuel and that person caring only about one part of their body, regardless of whether its the feet of a cisgirls or the cock of a transgirl or the beard of a cisdude or whatever.
Now I totally understand this.
I makes me feel very uncomfortable if some seeks me out just because I have a dick. (Then again I am not very stealth about my trans-ness).
However, what if you are someone who is legitimately attached to female presenting people who have penises.
It’s not "a dick on a girl that’s attractive" but "a girl with a dick” that you find arousing or alluring.
You also happen to care a great deal about their other aesthetic features as well, like eyes, hands, feet, mouth, breast, butt, legs… etc.
Sometimes I just want to play with a girl and instead of reaching down and playing with a cunt I get to play with a cock.
I don’t want to be castigated for this. I mean I don’t want to make anyone feel uncomfortable but there are people who just want to be with trans women who don’t mind having peens intimately for mutual reasons.
>>5505740
>but indigenous ways of life...."
Good. Capitalism is to social structure as evolution is to biology. If something is eradicated by the advancement of capitalism, then humanity is better off.
>>5505783
"i do" what exactly, friend?
This seemed relevant to the topic at hand…
I am not exactly defending or refuting what he is saying but just wanted to post it here to see what anyone had to say.
"Alan Soble questions the widely held Kantian view according to which human dignity is something that people have. He argues that objectification is not inappropriate. Everyone is already only an object and being only an object is not necessarily a bad thing. In one sense, then, no one can be objectified because no one has the higher ontological status that is required to be reduce-able by objectification. In another sense, everyone is vulnerable to objectification, and everyone can and may be objectified, because to do so is to take them to their correct ontological level. He writes:
The claim that we should treat people as ‘persons’ and not dehumanise them is to reify, is to anthropomorphise humans and consider them more than they are. Do not treat people as objects, we are told. Why not? Because, goes the answer, people qua persons deserve not to be treated as objects. What a nice bit of illusory chauvinism. People are not as grand as we make them out to be, would like them to be, or hope them to be."
>>5505790
>However, what if you are someone who is legitimately attached to female presenting people who have penises. It’s not "a dick on a girl that’s attractive" but "a girl with a dick” that you find arousing or alluring.
Welcome to my life. Well except I'm not that into the cock itself but I'm OK with it being there. Well more than "OK"; I don't begrudgingly accept that it's there, I like it being there I just don't wanna suck it. IMHO this is the same as being into redheads or petitie girls or plussized girls or whatever: TRULY liking someone for exactly who they are, including everything.
>>5505808
I highly doubt we will be better off without breathable air, clean water or a healthy topsoil. What capitalism (and people in their role as capitalists) needs in order to continute the process of accumulation is not what humans need in their role as living beings and parts of an ecosystem. Nor, necessarily, in their roles as citizens, members of communities or simply individuals trying to live their lives. Sometimes what is good for capitalism can be good for us all, such as a productive economy with high employment, but not always.
>Capitalism is to social structure as evolution is to biology.
True, but evolutionary pressure is not inherently good, nor does it move us to something "better" (there is no teleology in evolution, as anyone who has actually studied it will have heard their prof say a billion times). Nor does evolution provide a model for how society ought to work except in the discredited, pseudo-scientific ideas of 'social darwinism' and perhaps to those unfamilar with concepts of "naturalistic fallacy" and "is-ought problem".
Capitalism gets rid of everything that stands in its way: "Accumulate! Accumulate! That is Moses and the Prophets!" as Marx said. Whether you needed said things to live or thrive or enjoy life is meaningless to the accumulation process.
>>5505892
>Everyone is already only an object and being only an object
True in the techinical sense. But people have sentience and enter into relations that have to them meaning. They are objects and comparable to chairs and tables in the physical sense, but
It is easy to claim two things are the same when you have abstracted away everything that makes them different. The problem is, once you have done that, what does your model or theory say? If, in such a model, a person is an object and a chair as well and neither has a higher ontological status, what can your theory explain or tell us? If it is a theory of physics, plenty. A theory of value, in the philosophical sense, or dignity? Nothing. You have purposefully abstracted away the very thing you purport to analyse. It is a rhetorical trick, and not an argument proper. Pretty much: "I'm going to prove humans have no inherent dignity. Imagine a model in which humans have no inherent dignity. Imagine that model represents real life. There, proved it!"
>The claim that we should treat people as ‘persons’ and not dehumanise them is to reify, is to anthropomorphise humans and consider them more than they are.
Firstly, petitio principii: he assumes what he claims to prove. Secondly, we do not "anthropomorphise" humans though any claims; humans are made real though real processes; evolutionary, neurological, pshyciological, cultural, personal, etc. Thirdly, where he not more than an object, he would not be able to make any of these claims.
>>5505962
how the fuck did we get from banging trannies to this????
>>5506064
Objectification of a social group and how it is framed for Trans-women.
There seems to be two camps: Objectification is bad and dangerous & Indifference to Objectification.
One side argues for humans sentients and subjective experience and the other is arguing that they are inherently objects.
I believe that so much emphasis on the distinction is unnecessary:
We are sentient objects (I would go so far as to say that the sentient part of us is just a complex electro chemical code albeit a very important one that is a unique type of thing) and that can lead to malicious and benevolent actions.
>>5505501
Ladyboy Miran, or just Miran
>>5504449
I've been told I'm attractive by multiple straight women and gay men. a/s/l?
>>5504497
>It's symptom of their predicament, of being batshit insane and dumb as fuck.
Trannies BTFO and on suicide watch confirmed
Underrated post 2bh
>>5506064
This is how every chaser related thread goes, they all turn into this pure nonsense. The bitter lonely Hons hate to see passing tru-trans get attention from males, and AGP trans just tend to hate men in general so they come in to the threads and they troll. Then some well meaning chaser or tru-trans engages them with logic and reason and it devolves into philosophical debates that solve absolutely nothing, and really have nothing to do with what the thread was originally about.
>muh Kantian ethics.... muh Hedonism doe
>Capitalism familia.... b-b-but my Socialism
Every..... fucking ...... time
>>5507478
>I've been told I'm attractive by multiple straight women and gay men. a/s/l?
LOL she tells you to post contact info and you reply back with a/s/l?
I think I can see why you are having problems finding trannies when 20 million people live within 100 miles of you 2bh pham.
>>5486612
being into anything is a fetish.
Fetishes are good and GREAT fun.
So long as he treats his partner well and doesn't make her feel like shit, let him enjoy himself... hell, chances are his future girlfriend will be attracted to him because he fills one of her fetishes.
>>5484794
>What is the most effective way to meet pre-op trans women?
Become a srs surgeon. I'm not even kidding. Bitches -love- srs.
>>5484794
Become a bottom in tranny porn if you're not too ugly.
>>5509454
This is good advice if you want sex alternatively he can date a porn star a decent number of them are single and are non op.
looking for pre-op's have you tried going to: findashemalelover.com or transgenderdate.com
