she recently got her breast implants removed.
do you think it was a good decision or bad decision or why?
here's an "after" photo
here's another
Looks better without fake cowtits. Flat is justice.
>>5456447
I think it was a good decision. Too many trans women go overboard on the cosmetic surgery and come out looking like caricatures. She looks more natural and gracile now.
>>5456447
10/10 Femboy Tire
Now s/he just needs a nice, sleek tux and, new hair cut and s/he's set to cossplay all the high fashion and gothic themes you'd ever want a qt andro boi to.
Would almost be as good at doing it as Pejic was.
She looks more naturally female now.
Her implants made it obvious she was trans in my opinion. Looked too drag queen-esque.
I like the look of larger boobs but hers were pretty obvious implants.
>>5456680
+I don't think looking unnatural/fake is necessarily a bad thing... it's just in her case the overall result wasn't good
She looks great. Damn.
>tfw you will never have a family like this
>>5457988
who are the kids?
>>5458024
his from a previous relationship
She's passable because she still has hip and butt implants thoughh
>>5458586
Her face reminds me of a cousin's.
>>5458058
Were you not aware she had fat injections? She had hip and butt surgery and that anon was right, it really is what makes her pass.
https://youtu.be/GmpOsrzgOBE
>>5459171
Fat injections aren't implants dumbass
>>5456447
She looked better than 99% of trannies before.
Now she looks better than 99.9% of trannies
>>5459171
I love these hons that think they pass when they've had no work done whatsoever
>>5456447
Did she get silicone for her hips or fat grafts?
>>5459274
Ya but its depressing that maybe with all that shit you will still look strange
>>5459274
>tfw naturally wide and feminine hips
>>5459974
>lying on the internet to impress other hons
sure you do big buddy
>>5459999
.75 waist-to-hip ratio, nice quads
>>5459974
same, dude
except I'm a cis male with no AGP
it's a struggle
>>5460063
lol, I used to get bullied in school a lot
Guess it's a good thing I ended up as a tranny then...?
She is sweet and is truly a great mother, I was seated next to her and she was everything I ever wanted to be growing up. Things changed in my route, but still I'm glad she is reaching her dream.
>>5456447
Subjectively objectively better without boob implants. Flatty gets my Str8 seal of approval.
she's so pretty
I feel good for her.
I wonder there's any politics behind her decision.
I thought it was pretty amazing when Bailey Jay displayed political intelligence and pointed out that she gives few fucks about being seen as a "totally absolutely real normal woman" and just embraces transwoman status for what it is.
People who intentionally mispronoun and otherwise bully trans people need to die in a fire, but I strongly believe the attachment to identification as "woman" is in part based on not being able to let go of the gender binary which is in truth the main reason of trans discrimination.
What's so wrong with just saying "I'm male but I don't identify with the social construction of what it's supposed to mean to be a man" and/or "I'm male but I have body dysmorphia and will feel better with an anatomy closer to female anatomy so I ask for medical care to solve this problem".
We need to deconstruct the gender binary and resist the restrictions it puts on us. We should not simply play along with it and let it control our life.
>>5457988
can someone explain to me what's going on with him? isn't he gay? he met carmen before she transitioned so he's obviously in to fem guys but just wondering how he feels about the boobs and bottom surgery.
>>5460781
hes bi
>>5456459
Eva here
Tall girls are master race
>>5460736
>I strongly believe the attachment to identification as "woman" is in part based on not being able to let go of the gender binary which is in truth the main reason of trans discrimination.
I'd say it is more likely that it triggers the feelings of masculine inadequacy in some men. They then attack those that trigger those feelings.
>What's so wrong with just saying "I'm male but I don't identify with the social construction of what it's supposed to mean to be a man" and/or "I'm male but I have body dysmorphia and will feel better with an anatomy closer to female anatomy so I ask for medical care to solve this problem".
'cos neither is accurate for the transwoman's situation. Transwomen have female psyches. For some, they can't mentally deal with aspects of their body being male, and develop gender dysphoria, and thus need medical intervention to align their body with their mind.
>>5459999
>projecting because you couldn't start hrt at 18
>>5460082
"Ended up". You sound like a late transitioning hon who blows their features out of proportion. I doubt your hips look anything like carmens or a cis womans
>>5460091
What changed ?
>>5460964
>trans women have female psyches
Then why do so many of them come off likebeta men and not women at all
>>5460964
>Transwomen have female psyches.
I'm not convinced of that.
http://news.sciencemag.org/brain-behavior/2015/11/brains-men-and-women-aren-t-really-different-study-finds
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-10/30/male-female-brain-difference-not-significant
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/nov/30/brain-sex-men-from-mars-women-venus-not-so-says-new-study
Note these are the latest meta-analyses and studies, done more directly on this topic than previous studies. Previously neuroscientists would just brush over the topic and conclude from incomplete and not-well-analyzed data that "there seem to be innate differences between male and female brains." Now looking more closely, it comes out that such categories really make no sense.
>>5460964
Some of them have 6 year old girl psyches.
>>5461032
Socialization is clearly more powerful than whatever blank slate mindstate we start out as birth with. This is why it's easy to tell fake trannies apart
>>5461032
wew, that's solid academic journals.
>>5461095
So you didn't even bother following the links to the real studies and just went on to assume that I'm shitting you. Sasuga senpai, real smart of you.
>>5461032
sounds like junk science with some sort of an agenda behind it desu
not to mention obvious sexual dimorphism i can think of just off the top of my head like male brains being larger on average, having larger ventricles, females having more connectivity between both hemispheres as opposed to males. the list goes on
>>5461129
>sounds like junk science
>meta-analysis amounting to 6000 brains
>junk science
It's the highest quality research we have on the topic up to date.
>>5461150
It isn't, it's not even searching for brain sex, it's just trying to conclude if the gender stereotypes we have on brains are true or not, such as if men really are better at geometry.
Also, all of those were articles, not studies.
You can't link to articles, or read them, and then think you know what the study said.
>>5461150
forgive me for not trusting wired or the guardian for my scientific data lol
Since some autists are too stuck up to follow a couple links, here's some spoon-feeding:
>So in the new study, researchers led by Daphna Joel, a behavioral neuroscientist at Tel Aviv University in Israel, tried to be as comprehensive as possible. Using existing sets of MRI brain images, they measured the volume of gray matter (the dark, knobby tissue that contains the core of nerve cells) and white matter (the bundles of nerve fibers that transmit signals around the nervous system) in the brains of more than 1400 individuals. They also studied data from diffusion tensor imaging, which shows how tracts of white matter extend throughout the brain, connecting different regions.
>The majority of the brains were a mosaic of male and female structures, the team reports online today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Depending on whether the researchers looked at gray matter, white matter, or the diffusion tensor imaging data, between 23% and 53% of brains contained a mix of regions that fell on the male-end and female-end of the spectrum. Very few of the brains—between 0% and 8%—contained all male or all female structures. “There is no one type of male brain or female brain,” Joel says.
>Only 0.1% of subjects displayed only stereotypically-male or only stereotypically-female behaviors.
>The team's discovery came from a meta-analysis of more than 6,000 structural MRI scans, which showed that there was "no significant difference in hippocampal size between men and women". The discovery also counters many popular explanations of the differences between men and women.
>"Sex differences in the brain are irresistible to those looking to explain stereotypic differences between men and women," said Eliot. "And they often make a big splash. But as we explore multiple data sets and are able to coalesce very large samples of males and females, we find these differences often disappear or are trivial."
>The study also noted other studies that have debunked sex differences in the brain. The corpus callosum, a group of neural fibres that connects the two hemispheres, was commonly believed to differ in size in men and women. Male and female brains were also once thought to have significant differences in the way their hemispheres process language. But large scale meta-analyses have debunked both of these claims.
>“We show there are differences, but brains do not come in male and female forms. The differences you see are differences between averages. Each one of us is a unique mosaic,” Joel said. Her study appears in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
>“Sex affects the brain but how it affects the brain depends on other factors. The effects of sex can be different and even opposite under different conditions. This is why you can be highly masculine on one feature but highly feminine on another feature,” she added.
>“What they show, which is interesting, is that although there are some brain characteristics that are a bit more common in males, and others that are a bit more common in females, we are all a mixture of these.
>>5461284
Trannies BFTO. It's okay, your brain isn't exactly female, big deal, you want to live as a real girl but don't delude yourself into thinking your brain is a real girl one.
>>5461305
>Trannies BFTO.
Fucking NO.
That's not the point of this.
These studies don't necessarily disprove a biological root of transsexuality.
However one might say it proves that it's silly to state that e.g. a transsexual woman has simply a "female brain".
>>5461305
Prime example of /pol/ trying to ignite feminist/LGBT infighting.
>>5461032
You do realize that the BSTc is to small of feature to be accurately measured by any MRI machine? Yet in males it is nearly twice the size as it is in females, and the smallest to largest ranges for Cis males and Cis females don't over lap. Transwomen all had BSTc sizes in the range of cis females, and the one transman's was in the cis male range.
That meta study you show as proof isn't proof. All it says is at a gross scale the brains look similar, but they ignore common areas known to be different. At a fine scale at the minimum the BSTc was found to be significantly physically different in size.
>>5461390
>All it says is at a gross scale the brains look similar, but they ignore common areas known to be different.
thank you.
and i'd just like to add this from one of the articles:
>“There are very few people at the male / female extreme ends on any feature, and, where we are on the male-female axis will vary for different features. We are all a mixture,” she said.
>“Having said that,” she adds, “Other papers have shown that, if you look across many different brains and find these characteristics, then, given a new brain you can predict with some degree of certainty whether it’s likely to be male or female.”
so you can even still sex somebody's brain despite there being no such "male" or "female" brain. hmm...
>>5461270
>They are articles *about* studies.
Which often don't report exactly what the study found as findings, and especially not the limitations of the findings.
Here's a hint, go read the original research papers. That way you won't be hoodwinked by somebody else's agenda.
>>5461291
>"no significant difference in hippocampal size between men and women"
>hippocampal
You do realize that that is only a small region of the brain. Orange in this animation.
>>5461483
>boohoo
>I reposted from the "science press" and you dare critique my posting
>You made a powerful enemy
>>5461519
What the fuck is even your problem?
The studies are high-quality.
They say exactly what's been quoted above by multiple people.
What fucking enemy or whatever are you talking about, am I not allowed to simply inform people of the latest research now?
This divisiveness and "you against us" mentality is making people lose all sanity they have.
I'm leaving the thread because I said everything I had to say and can't be arsed to take part in childish arguments.
For those still too fucking autistic to go and check for themselves, here are the direct links to the relevant studies/meta-analysis:
http://www.pnas.org/content/112/50/15468
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26334947
>>5461284
>>5461291
>>5461300
Interesting bit from the study, they didn't segregate on how the subjects saw them selves gender wise. They were just sorted into male and female based on medical records. So a feminine acting male would be mixed in with the results of males rather than females or separated out. We know from other studies that 0.1% to 0.5% of all people are transgender. With the number of subjects studied, that means they will likely have transgender brains used.
>>5461615
>0.1% to 0.5% of all people are transgender
That's way too little to skew the results of the study.
And if trans brains are very different, they would have shown up as outliers. Well conducted statistics always correct for statistical outliers.
>>5461365
No that's an example of an edgy 13 yr old. It's feminists that will argue all brains are agender and yada yada social construct. It's not infighting it's the pain of cognitive dissonance.
>>5462407
Sounds like bullshit. Do you have a citation of feminists saying all brains are agender? How prevalent is this thought among feminists?
>>5461021
And you sound like a bitter hon that can't pass and spends her time shitposting on /lgbt/ to make herself feel better
>>5461665
This >>5461390
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10843193
Still holds true. The BSTc has 2.3 times as many neurons in the adult masculine brain than the adult feminine brain.
The study isn't looking at the full complexity of the brain, just the relative sizes of the hippocampal region using an instrument that can't resolve fine detail.
>>5461025
I radicalized (politically speaking) after I ran away and became a homeless teen, found the pass and fit into traditional modes of trans being ill fitting.
It's cool though, I met her at an awards show because of the work I've been doing for years.
>>5462471
Kek'd
>>5460987
first i am a bio woman so nice projection there yourself. second it's funny you had to get defensive and change the course of discussion from providing evidence for your wild claims you knew damn well people will question from the start to denying the existence of other people's hips making you sound like that bragging scamming guy on the internet talking about his "lamborghinis in the garage" so it's likely you are just a troll and now you are having a giggle mate
>>5461305
Except their brain isn't male either, what's your fucking point
>>5462685
>intersex trans girls are a wild claim
>androgyny is a wild claim
>starting hrt during puberty is a wild claim
>late bloomers are a wild claim
You're not sounding very smart, "bio" ""woman""
>>5462623
There's still hope you know. She was a show girl, I know trans women who went through all kinds of shit trying to survive who did build a family.
>>5461305
According to that same study, a "real girl brain' doesn't exist, you fucking moron.
>>5462685
Yur trollin' purdy gud n i liek u.
>>5462759
I'm a hon, a pretty hon apparently given the opportunities but I'm like totally different from her since I went "NO MONES, NOT PASSING DOESNT MAKE ME ANY LESS TRANS" being around Carmen and Geena and other women kinda made me realize we aren't really the same thing anymore. I look like a linebacker by comparison.
>>5462685
>wide hips for a guy (i.e.unremarkable or even a bit below average for a girl) is a wild claim
>>5460736
>what's wrong with identifying as a male that [insert feminist narrative of gender dysphoria]
Well first off, your description is demeaning and inaccurate. All that social shit you spoke about is retarded and doesn't fit with how I deal with this condition, and you make the amateur mistake of mislabeling dysphoria as body dysmorphia. Likely because you can't read well and conflate the two lol.
Bottom line is that I don't identify as a male, period. At best I identify as a trans woman. I don't tell people your safe little feminist narrative of my condition because it's stupid and makes me feel like shit. You're clinging to the gender binary yourself when you say my gender identity has to be in line with my biological sex. So fuck off and go jerk off to some Greer and Dworkin, you disingenuous prick.
>>5463007
>You're clinging to the gender binary yourself when you say my gender identity has to be in line with my biological sex.
LOL no, what I'm pointing out is that you have a certain anatomy that doesn't change with self-identification.
Even if you've done HRT and SRS and such, a complete anatomy change is implausible. You can just call yourself MtF then? I mean, just something that reflects material reality.
The reason is that genders are social classes. You just are in one of those classes in society; how you call yourself makes a minor (not nonexistent, but minor) difference in what class you fall.
It's also OK to go stealth mode and just say you're a woman, to avoid all the usual bullshit, but if it's obvious to people that you're MtF then what's the matter just calling yourself MtF? I doubt it will change anything in how much discrimination you receive, if people already see you're MtF...
The point of it all is really just to pay some respect to the fact that women are a social class that have been under oppression. Just identifying oneself into the class would be appropriation or whatever.
(And sure, transgender are also an oppressed class. Just not equivalent to women.)
But anyway, having said my opinions, I'll refrain from arguing. Tired anyway. Do what works best for you to avoid discrimination and to feel comfortable with your condition...
>>5463255
>The point of it all is really just to pay some respect to the fact that women are a social class that have been under oppression
I see you cry this, but but transwomen are even more oppressed than women.
>>5463965
not that anon, but are you baiting?
>>5464177
no. Just listen to the lives many trans have been through. We're dumped on.
>>5464200
Sure, it's a bad deal, but look at it like this...
>If you are a MtF, there are a few possibilities of how others might perceive you...
>A crossdressing male
(which is bad, because men aren't supposed to wear women's clothes, right? The fact that we even have a word for that implies that there is something deep and unnatural for when one dons the garments of the opposite sex, even when there might not be.), which might cause people to treat you badly because you aren't fitting into your box neatly, bringing up latent homophobia, etc...
>A woman
Congratulations! Err...sort of... you'll receive all of the social expectations that are placed on women...and we all know how great that is(n't).
Of course, there is quite deviance a bit between this, given that a person may or may not know about transsexualism/transgender people and may react slightly differently because this type of thing is a radical departure from how gender is typically seen throughout society. Like the other anon said, what is important is that we make it not necessarily "bad" or "evil" to be trans, but something that needs to be taken care of well. Simply masking the problem by changing the use of words won't get us there, you know?
>>5464253
Women aren't oppressed. They just want to feel like victims.
>>5465331
Could you explain why ANYONE would want to feel like a victim?
Why do you think they're not oppressed?
Why would there be voices of dissent if there is no oppression. Why would there be those that loathe the status quo? If this shit is so comfy, why are we even here discussing this shit? Where do you think it all comes from? We don't talk about this "just because". Imagining issues where there are none sounds like a huge waste of time and effort for everyone involved, so honestly why do you think there is the current discourse we've got here?
She looks good either way
>>5463965
>>5464200
This isn't Oppression Olympics.
Being in one oppressed group doesn't give you the right to shit on another oppressed group and ignore their problems in such a way that you end up contributing to their oppression.
I see a lot of internalized homophobia and internalized transphobia in LGBT. Let me give a couple examples.
1. Implying that sexual orientation can be a choice (in terms of behavior; without denying that actual attraction is typically biologically determined) makes homosexuals (both lesbians and gays) incredibly angry. Why the hell should it? Would the fact that one can force oneself to live a different orientation than their biological one justify hostility and discrimination of homosexuals? Would it justify wanting to force them all to act heterosexual instead of follow their desires? So the hostility against e.g. political lesbians (who choose to only have lesbian relationships even if they're not born lesbian), and the hostility against some researchers who just want to study the possibility of changing orientation (without any underlying bigotry), all seem partly rooted in internalized homophobia. You *have* to shield yourself under this "it's a biological condition, I can't do anything against it!" narrative to feel good about yourself, instead of saying "fuck you, I have sex with whoever I like."
2. Insisting that transwomen are absolutely totally fully normal women indistinguishable from all other women. This reeks of fear of transsexual status. You don't have to constantly declare your trans status if you can just go stealth (at the very least it will save you explanations). But there is absolutely no problem with identifying as MtF or FtM as your gender/sex/whatever. It's more materially accurate. The unwillingness to accept such an identity seems rooted in internal transphobia. You just *have* to be a "real", normal woman, otherwise you feel horrible... Bullshit, just embrace your natural identity.
>>5466426
>You just *have* to be a "real", normal woman, otherwise you feel horrible...
Yeah, that's how gender dysphoria tends to work. This is the kind of logic that leads to "you don't need dysphoria to transition" bullshit
>>5466426
>This isn't Oppression Olympics.
no it isn't, it's reality. fucking sucks too.
I never shit on anybody. I know what it feels like to be the subject of it, and will never do it to another.
she's trying to serve model so she'll get more high fashion bookings but it's not going to work because she's pumped, ugly and looks like a rodent.
>>5466471
Something makes me doubt that your brain can tell whether you "are a real woman" or not.
Maybe something in the nervous system or such reacts to hormones, limbs (alien limb syndrome comes to mind), your own voice, and, hell, I could even believe that MAYBE there's something in your body that detects whether you have an uterus and ovaries.
But "being a real woman" is an absolutely abstract concept. It's obviously purely psychological. Having people use female pronouns and classify you as a type of woman, all fine, but when it ultimately comes down to it, you either have to accept the material fact that you're a trans woman and not a female born woman (because that's literally a fact that cannot be changed), or you will feel bad, or be *very* prone to feeling bad at any instant. Your only mechanism to avoid feeling bad will be to literally delude yourself and choose not to come to terms with a material fact.
That doesn't seem like a good way to go. That seems rather like becoming a slave to your internalized transphobia.
Excuse me if I'm being very blunt. This is 4chan so I assume nobody who's prone to getting triggered would be here.
>>5466426
>Being in one oppressed group doesn't give you the right to shit on another oppressed group and ignore their problems in such a way that you end up contributing to their oppression.
And how do trans women contribute to normal women's oppression exactly? Give me feasible shit that has actual fucking widespread consequences. Also you're a fucking hypocrite. Assuming you're the same radfem loser from the other threads. You've openly stated that you support transphobic radical feminists like Germaine Greer and Janice Raymond because, while they contribute to transphobia and indirectly hurt trans women, they help bio women and since there are more bio women than trans women, that's acceptable to you.
>>5466512
>how do trans women contribute to normal women's oppression exactly?
*Some* trans women contribute to sexist culture like e.g. Caitlyn Jenner.
Some others erase out woman-as-social-class by implying that some hormonal and anatomic changes can make you a woman in the full sense. This erases out the shared experience of female born women, who grew up in a sexist culture etc.
This is nowhere on the level as right wing politicians, sexually violent males, and so on, it's just a small part of a bigger puzzle. So nobody's saying that these trans women who make these mistakes are *especially* bad, they just also contribute a bit to the large picture...
>You've openly stated that you support transphobic radical feminists like Germaine Greer and Janice Raymond
If I remember correctly I've literally never said that I support Janice Raymond. I literally don't know anything about her ideals because I've never read a single book or article by her or listened to a speech or anything else.
Germaine Greer is one of the most famous feminist authors overall. Shitting on her entirely for her transphobia would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I don't support her transphobia.
>they help bio women and since there are more bio women than trans women, that's acceptable to you
If I was forced to make a utilitarian choice I would choose the bigger pool of humans to help to, but that's a rather silly way to look at things. One can make good use of e.g. Greer's overall feminist teachings, without adhering to the transphobic parts.
Think about all the incredibly racist, sexist, etc. philosophers and scientists throughout human history... They were assholes but usually not much worse than everyone else who lived in their time-period, and either way ignoring the positive parts of their philosophy and such would be dumb.
>>5466511
>Something makes me doubt that your brain can tell whether you "are a real woman" or not.
Are you saying that we can't tell what's reality or notice the differences between sexes? You're contradicting yourself here when you say that and insist we should acknowledge biological facts. Can't exactly acknowledge anything when your brain can't even tell the difference m8
>>5466589
"Brain" was the wrong word, sorry. Something like subconscious, neural system, etc.
My point was, so long as you can fool your neural system or whatever that you have female anatomy, that should diminish the body dysphoria and other biological causes of distress.
The remaining distress would be purely psychological, and solving that by painfully trying to delude yourself that you're a female born woman seems pretty dumb.
(I realize most trans women probably don't do that. Some things in social media indicate that some do, and I suppose the populist media loves that narrative because it's simplistic and doesn't challenge the gender binary too much.)
I have broad shoulders so everybody is telling me to get big implants but I'm not convinced because I don't want fake silicone breasts. Is this really better to conceal big shoulders?
>>5466556
>*Some* trans women contribute to sexist culture like e.g. Caitlyn Jenner.
Far more cis women contribute to sexist culture. Quite invalid.
>>5466625
>"Brain" was the wrong word, sorry. Something like subconscious, neural system, etc.
That is literally the brain. You can't be serious here.
>My point was, so long as you can fool your neural system or whatever that you have female anatomy, that should diminish the body dysphoria and other biological causes of distress.
That's virtually impossible. In order to fool my "neural systems" into thinking I have a female anatomy, I'd have to wipe my memories and undergo a complete sex change, which isn't possible with current technology. I've been on hormones for four fucking years and I still know I don't have a female anatomy, the most I have is a partially feminized phenotype and it makes me feel like shit. You really have no idea how this shit works.
>The remaining distress would be purely psychological, and solving that by painfully trying to delude yourself that you're a female born woman seems pretty dumb.
Literally all of the symptoms of gender dysphoria are psychological, that's why it's in the goddamn DSM. Just because something in your head is psychological doesn't mean there is no biological cause for it. Also you talk a lot about self delusion but you contradict your own argument when you say I should be able to trick my brain into thinking I have a female anatomy when I literally don't.
>>5466717
That doesn't invalidate the point.
>>5466734
>That is literally the brain. You can't be serious here.
You know, whatever, I think the rest of my post(s) made it sufficiently clear what I was talking about...
>That's virtually impossible. In order to fool my "neural systems" into thinking I have a female anatomy, I'd have to wipe my memories and [...]
OK looks like I wasn't sufficiently clear. I'm talking about parts of your body that you have no conscious control over. E.g. a person can learn to overcome the loss of a relative by processing the pain (conscious effort without the use of drugs, surgery, etc.), but if they have a phantom limb then they can't simply teach the nervous system that it should stop sending pain signals from the missing limb.
>Literally all of the symptoms of gender dysphoria are psychological
When somebody has phantom limb pain, would you call that "psychological"? It's purely a nervous-system thing, but I don't think it counts as "psychology".
>you say I should be able to trick my brain into thinking I have a female anatomy
No, if we're talking "brain" as in conscious beliefs, then that is exactly what I suggest people *don't* try because it's either futile or ultra-sensitive to break down at any moment.
I'm only talking about how when you have an alien limb, you can amputate it and the brain goes "OK, now everything seems finally right" (even though you lost a fucking limb), and similarly, when you have body dysmorphia, you can have SRS so the subconscious/whatever shuts up.
Was that clear? I guess it's kind of difficult to explain.
>>5457030
thought she was jessica alba for a second
less arguing more discussion of carmen carrera and her titties large or small
>>5460964
wtf is a 'female psyche'?
and how on earth could you know?
>>5467913
I disagree; this is a good conversation.
>>5468011
Their brain has all the natural inclinations of a female, not a man.
>>5466426
I've been transitioning for a while and struggling with the concept of not being a "real woman" even after passing very well for more than half a decade. You've helped me realize something important about myself; that I can be okay with being a transwoman without perpetuating gender role stereotypes and without doing mental gymnastics and grabbing to irrational half-baked arguments to conflate myself to cis-women.
I felt like I only had two options.
1.) Become content with essentially deceiving all the important people in my life by not being completely honest about myself
2.) De-transitioning
You've helped me relearn that I can transition to become more comfortable with my body while simultaneously being honest with myself about my limitations, and that's okay.
That is such a good feeling. Thank you so much. This will dramatically improve my life. I
>>5468203
i-is this real life?
If you're trolling me, I might literally start to cry from getting bullied.
If it's legit I may start crying tears of joy.
>>5456447
She looks like a fitness model, so this hits my personal preference. Truth is, some MtF people go too far with surgery, makeup, etc., so they end up looking like an idea of a woman, but not an actual one.
>>5468234
Not at all. I'm a real person. I honestly wish I could talk to you more about my experiences because of how much everything you said has resonated with me. ;_;
I dunno how wise it would be to post skype or other social media. Do you know of any other way?
>>5468234
If not, I just wanted to say thank you. That's all.
>>5468389
Oh I'm still here, wait a minute...
Flat Tier is God Tier
>>5463007
this
Can you exactly blame trans women for just wanting to be equivalent to cis women? Even if it's just in overall treatment, it's better than being treated as a trans woman. Being a trans woman is a fucking living hell because transphobia is literally everywhere. Even "supportive" people like yourself softly perpetuate and contribute to it when you say we're somehow hurting cis women and erasing their stories by identifying as one. Or that we should be excluded from cis women's spaces because our existence makes them uncomfortable.
You have to understand that society pushes us to think on very confined terms about ourselves. If we openly identify as a trans woman then ask to be treated as a woman, we're met with a disproportionate amount of hostility. We're told that we're delusional, selfish and immature for asking to be treated as something we're not. We try to fight back but we're constantly overwhelmed and tossed under the bus. Our concerns are ignored, opposed or misrepresented. That's why we're so fucked in the head. That's why we make every conceivable effort to hide ourselves, because society insistently perpetuates the notion that being a trans woman is equivalent to being a subhuman. A delusional man in a dress, a freak. Can you blame us for trying to escape that status and just be seen as an average woman?
>>5469206
Stopped reading at cis.
Go away
>>5469206
I'm just trying to explain to you why trans women here have been so vehemently defensive about this shit. Most of us don't really have a problem with the actual label trans woman. Some just see the trans part as an adjective and consider themselves women first and foremost. The trans part is just an accurate descriptor that indicated what kind of woman we are.
What they have a problem with is the constantly perpetuated and enforced notion a trans woman is basically a fake, artificial woman. That shit is tossed in our faces daily. And openly embracing the label opens you up to a disproportionate amount of discrimination. That's why so many here are hopeful to one day just go stealth in order avoid most of society's bullshit. The ones that can't go stealth are forced under society's scrutiny and they either embrace it and make every effort to convince themselves that they're happy, or keep pushing to eacape it until they either succeed or commit suicide. Forcing the label on trans women when those are the popular connotations and social outcomes for it is like forcing them into an oven. Many are going to reject it and some are going to push back.
>>5469206
I so agree with this. I feel that womanhood is transcendent, we all start out as female in the womb, degrees of maleness are just a progression of mutation to the original female form. Trans women are females who were exposed to physically masculinizing hormones but they weren't enough to erode their inherent femininity.
