Should transgender people be allowed to serve in the US military? A number of countries (18 in fact) already allow trans folk to serve openly in their armed forces, should the US follow suit?
As long as they're held to the same standard of other soldiers who are dependent on medication
>>5447603
Honestly, if you want to spend a good portion of your life in hell with the high risk of death, I'm not going to stop you no matter what you identify as.
I'll take the tobacco chewing FTMs. MTFs maybe, they can't be any worse than the cis women we have now.
I don't really see why it would matter. Medication is just part of the supply chain and any competent logistics team could handle that.
FTM are held to the same standards as men, and MTF are held to the same standards as women. It should be fine.
>>5447812
It's not a reason to bar them from service but medication is actually a difficult logistics problem.
>>5447845
Well sure. Logistics is hard in general.
>>5447855
Yeah, the issue is that you need to consistently supply a very specific set of medications to a tiny group of people. Doable, but it's a bitch.
>>5447603
This year the Pentagon already said they would allow trannies to openly serve.
>>5447790
FTMs at least are flooding their systems with testosterone, they're probably better suited to combat than MTFs or cis women.
There will be an official policy allowing trans to serve openly in may.
I was outed during a health and wellness inspection and what happened was...nothing. The military does not care about you, at all. In a sense, it is very liberating to just be a body in a function. As for logistics...is that a joke? There is broadband internet at Bagram. They can manage some estrogen for the maybe 1 per 7000 personnel at a base, if they are ever in the unlikeliest scenario of not getting a prescription written out and filled OFF BASE. The military does not care what type of loin cloth it's slave wears under its collar.
>>5448157
So requiring medication is a "selfish delusion" now?
"Serve this country", you mean fight other people's wars.
>>5447603
Straight Army guy here.
Only the really old gave a shit about gays in the military, I've done so much gay shit for fun in the army.
That being said, unless they make a PT test that is equal across the board for males, females, snowflakes. You are going to see a bunch of lazyfatbodies just say "OMG Sergent! I AM SO A FEMALE! I SHOULD BE GRADED ON THE FEMALE PT STANDARDS!"
And the way the climate is in the military right now trying to be so PC, it would fly because God forbid they offend some snowflake. Some Mtf person would have advantages getting rank simply because they could score a 300 on the pt test. And in case all of you dont know what im talking about, your pt test score accounts for alot of your promotion points. So yea they gotta fix that before anyone becomes really ok with it. Also the whole getting "promoted" just because your a damn snowflake, it DOES happen, it happened to women, and it happened to black males even before that. They better fucking earn it. Im not even going to address the combat aspect of it.
>>5447603
Yes. FTMs are the ultimate soldiers. Utilize that.
>manlets, can fit in small spaces
>trans, so by default have a massive urge to proce themselves due to feeling inferior
>no balls to kick if they ever get into some sort of fist fight with a terrorist for whatever reason
>usually muscular and therefore strong due to inferiority complex of being trans/a manlet
>probably used to being psychologically fucked up and can tolerate seeing more messed up shit
>won't complain about anything once again due to inferiority complex/fear of teammates calling them a girl and will also be very cooperative
>>5449726
but the muslims can smell their blood every full moon.
>>5449741
Menstrual cycle stop when FtM's are on T
>>5450271
nice, then it's 100% super soldiers
>>5447603
I have no problem with it as long as men and women are held to the same mental and physical standards with no concessions made.
>>5449454
It's honestly pretty silly to have different PT standards for different genders, since the same ability is required regardless of gender. If there's going to be different PT standards, it should be based on what tasks they have to do in a given position.
>>5449454
>You are going to see a bunch of lazyfatbodies just say "OMG Sergent! I AM SO A FEMALE! I SHOULD BE GRADED ON THE FEMALE PT STANDARDS!"
Yeah OBVIOUSLY there's going to be a huge problem of people faking a major disorder and taking treatments that cause infertility and other side effects just for easier tests.
>>5449356
we had this conversation before maybe. I am in the airforce. I am at Luke. I don't use skype but I would like to get in contact with you and more airforce peeps.
Holding out till may senpai.
It is hard enough being a known lesbian in the Army. Fap fuel for all the male soldiers, female soldiers think I am going to rape them in the sleep tent. The only benefit is that men don't hit on me and I don't have a room mate in the barracks.
>>5450311
/thread
>>5447603
No. Trans people are generally unstable, have high rate of depression and could pose risk to their fellow soldiers.
Huh I guess I kinda assumed no countries took trans people.
Which ones do? Do any of those that do take foreign volunteers?
>>5447603
Yes, there are plenty of jobs in the military that can be filled by transpeople without any real effect on force readiness.
If a cisgender woman can do the same tech work that I did while male, why couldn't a transgender woman do the same work?
>>5454581
How much of that is a direct result of gender dysphoria, and how much of that is the result of inadequate treatment and social stigma?
>>5454242
Wait, homosexuals get single rooms in the barracks?
>>5447870
it's not like they gonna die if they don't get a supply. they gonna die if they get a bullet in the face.
>>5454616
kek
i remember my mandatory conscription
>you checked the "i have desires and tendencies different from the norm" (or something like that it was very obscure i was a teenager going through an asexual phase i checked it) are you gay?
>n... what if i am does that make me unfit for service?
>no we got a gay company at ... and then you go there.
>no thanks! i'm not gay!
>alright then i'm gonna just fix this for you...
and she altered the answer, because even tho they worded it in the most obscure way possible they only cared about if you fancied your fellow men or not.
eventually i wiggled out of service but i don't think they particularly cared about you they just wanted to keep the entire thing as drama free as possible. so they gladly cut anyone off if they could on whatever grounds being gay was just not one of them.
i have no doubt in my mind all trans people got "unfit for active duty" and they were all happy about it.
The military is not a social experiment. We don't need to put our military and our servicemen at risk just so some mentally ill freak can have their way.
>>5455714
but anon you are fighting for these freaks tho you are literally putting your life on the line so they can have their way. how does that make you feel?
>>5455714
>risk
what risk? we thought women we be a risk but we still let them? pretty sure we thought blacks were a risk in the past
Should we also not allow and kick out all muslims who serve in the miltart because they are a "risk"
Transpeople already existed in the miltary, they just hid it.
>>5447603
how long till drill sergeants have to get sensitivity training? also are republicans right about the slippery slope, first it was women,then it was gays, now zhe
>>5455733
The standards are a lot lower than they were, Flat feet isnt even a thing anymore. They will do what ever to get you out there.
If the miltary changes it standards again to require a better quality soldier then yeah thats fair but when you have people who have just as many needs allowed but not the trans because of "needs" then thats just bullshit
>>5448213
do diabetics serve?would you support a totalitarian government if it treated you like a body in a function?
>>5449454
>I've done so much gay shit for fun in the army.
anon I don't know how to break it to you but you gay. unless you are an insecure faggot who thinks group showers are gay
>>5447603
Yes they should. Go out there, and kill and die for me. I'll even pretend to be singing you a song during memorial day. The same way I do to everyone else.
>>5454145
you underestimate stupidity of some people. some may even get tits just to whore themselves
>>5447603
>A number of countries (18 in fact) already allow trans folk to serve openly in their armed forces, should the US follow suit?
Has there been problems serious enough to support a ban on trans in the army?
>Yes
Then of course they shouldn't be allowed to
>No
Then what's the problem?
Provide sauces to back up the claims of yes or no. Anyone making unsauced claims should be ignored or responded to with a smug anime pic or meme
>>5449726
>no balls to kick if they ever get into some sort of fist fight with a terrorist for whatever reason
women go down as easy if you hit the box.
>probably used to being psychologically fucked up and can tolerate seeing more messed up shit
kek. we talking about same faggots who cry themselves to sleep when a stranger uses a wrong pronoun
>won't complain about anything
men you should be a comedian
>>5455728
it's mostly the medication side of things.
most militaries don't allow asthmatics or diabetics.
so allowing people with dependency on hormones is just a real bad idea.
one missed supply/fuckup and you've got alot of sick people around.
>>5450319
this could all be solved if they just moved all the women into support personnel
>>5454145
>major disorder
die cis scum
>>5454242
sounds like a sweet deal, army wise. + no superiors threatening to put you at the head of the convoy if you don't sleep with them
>>5454600
>How much of that is a direct result of gender dysphoria, and how much of that is the result of inadequate treatment and social stigma?
I would say 10-20% is due to meds and social stigma but the rest is on them.
>>5455701
>no we got a gay company at ..
so endless orgy?first into the fire?
>>5455799
Hormones are not remotely comparable to insulin or an inhaler which is treatment for a physical issue that can kill them without it.
Hormones are closer to anti-depressants, mood stablizers and such which is something that the military has no problem prescribing and can cause just as bad issues with being off of it.
The question is, If there was a cis soldier with an hormone issue and they needed to take hormones would the military allow it. If yes then its not really different. If No then yes that is valid, But only from the medical and standards point. which i am cool with
>>5455714
I would say the same about schools.
>>5455728
women got let in because technology advanced and you know people used to want to keep women safe and did not make them fight till germany was half way into the motherland.I don't ever recall blacks being named a risk, just people not wanting to have them near due to racism.
>Transpeople already existed in the miltary, they just hid it.
where do they get the meds?
>>5455763
>flat feet isnt even a thing anymore.
its not?my dad forged his medical records to avoide the draft using Flat feet as an excuse.
>>5455784
thank you tumbler shill, what would we do without you
>>5455845
in the draft that was a thing but not anymore. Our standards are much much much lower than they were
>>5455852
How is that being a tumblr shill? Wouldn't just saying "yes they should, shitlords!" and calling everyone who disagrees with them a /pol/tard be tumblr shilling? Since when does tumblr want to a discussion with facts to back it up?
>mfw when I accidentally ended up on /lgbt/ instead of /tv/ and did not notice it for 30 minutes
>>5455882
I lold
>>5455823
i think it was more due to not being abused or beaten for being a fag, but i can imagine things might have gotten a bit sweaty here and there in the gay company.
Yes, but only when they normalize the standards for military entrance between men and women. As it stands, they have different standards to keep and with a tranny it's too tricky to pin them to one.
>>5455679
There's a possibility that they're going to end up killing themselves or others. And they're certainly going to detract from the performance of the unit if they can't function because of how much they hate their body.
>>5447603
USAirfag here. We *do* allow trans in the military. I don't know who started the myth that it's disallowed.
Aside from myself, there's someone else I know on my base who is a transwoman. We're both open about it, so our chain of command is well aware.
>>5456493
Anti-depressants are the most perscribed meds to soldiers. pretty sure those have that same effect
>>5447603
Anyone dumb enough to join the military should be allowed in.
No, I like being exempt from the draft. While we're at it lets exempt trans people from most civic duties.
>>5456545
exactly my thinking
i would have tho if they let me shoot people but they don't it's all just drills and getting up early and get yelled at also lots of running
>>5455815
>>5449454
Ex ssg here
You can just fake a back or leg problem to get out of PT and standards, you don't need to chemically castrate yourself for that.
Everything you're listing is an enlisted problem, diversity makes leadership better, I was on the tail end, seeing them throw out two gay West Point LTs after they got back from a combat tour, this is what 100% straight white male leadership gets you, waste and prejudice.
.1% of the population getting promoted early because the pt test is barely something to worry about, when 50% of the population (females) already get promoted faster for easier pt tests. That system needs to be replaced with mos testing, but even if it doesn't, all women have this advantage, and trans women are women, and trans men are men and they are advantaged and disadvantaged accordingly.
>>5447655
Military brat I am 21 here about to join the Air Force.
My mother served 32 years in the army as a finanical manager and budget planner and my uncle served 36 years in the Air Force as a Engineer.(Most of my family joined the service but these are the 2 longest serving members of my family.)
Your statement only applies to those who take combative roles. I hear this statement a lot from people who seem to be ignorant in how to service operates.
If you decide to join any branch of the service you are given a test called the ASVAB The test is scored 1 to 100. 100 being a perfect score, depending on your score you can choose which branch you want to join along with a job after basic training.
If you decide to become a Mechanic for example after basic training then your will spend a few months in a college like setting learning your job/ trade/skill but once you enter training for that job There is no point for a engineer to fight and risk their lives because that's not their job. There is no point sending a Engineer off to fight because they were trained to fight. That is more suited to a Infantryman which is a separate job with separate training after Basic Training.
People in Non Combative role Jobs do not fight. Do not spread this fear of the service and scare people with the fear of the deployment that won't come.
as for allowing transgendered people in the service I have to agree with anon. As long as the standard is not lowered I am fine with this the standard exists for a reason it shouldnt be lowered for anyone that wants to join.
Also this>>5457235
>>5447626
>>5447603
I say why not.
>>5454600
>How much of that is a direct result of gender dysphoria, and how much of that is the result of inadequate treatment and social stigma?
Reasons are irrelevant, if there is a social stigma, it won’t disappear just because they join military.
>>5457079
>implying
>>5447603
If they're expected to feel patriotic about their country, then yes.
Don't lower standards or anything though. It would be an insult to us transfgts as well as non-trans members of the military.
So do trans people need to sign up for selective service/the draft? And why isn't it mandatory yet for everyone male/female/whatever?
>>5470629
There was a social stigma against integration in the 40s. They got over it
>>5454592
Thailand does iirc
>>5448213
>They can manage some estrogen for the maybe 1 per 7000 personnel at a base
LOL, I bet it is much higher than that. The best guess is there are 15,000 plus transgenders in the military.
Nah. If I'm out of hormones for even a day, my digestive system becomes a painful clusterfuck. Transition turns into medical maintenance after success, and that's a logistical and expense nightmare. You want part of the cargo on a carrier being my fucking titty skittles? You want Americans to pay for anti andros getting to Bumfukistan? It's stupid. I have an expensive and intricate intersex disorder. That's an undue burden of the tactics and strategy in command. I bet those 18 countries are wholly dependent on the American military complex for their actual safety anyway.
>>5447603
This person is obviously born female
>>5447603
>confirmed mental illness
>high rate of depression, bipolar, etc
>most jobs require a degree of stability and responsibility
>all jobs deploy, which depresses even the most rugged person
>PTSD and post-deployment suicides at an all time high
Nah, I'd rather not have my tax dollars wasted.
>>5480361
Why can't they just give you an estrogen implant, then you'd be good for 3-4 months?
And I'm sure the military could probably improve those implants to get at least 6 months out of them.
>>5480499
You'd still need anti-androgen pills till you get your balls chopped off...
>>5447603
That's not the question you're really asking.
What you're really asking is:
>Should we allow persons with a mental disorder and a higher risk of depression and suicide volunteer for a system with significant problems in mental health treatment already?
Compounding one issue with another issue is not a good idea in any situation. Many normies people experience mental health issues when in the military. You're asking for someone with a pre-existing socially and mentally complex issue to be added into that situation.
>Should we allow the most targeted demographic in terms of sexual bigotry join an institution with a rampant sexual assault and harassment problem?
Most of the military is still home to right-wingers. The military is a volunteer force with a large part being manual labor, and your liberal arts majors from DeCuck U aren't signing up as often as your farmboys from Kentucky.
>Should we train a person with a socially-sensitive issue, and to prepare them to deploy to countries that have intolerant views on LGBT persons?
Every servicemember deploys. Everything boils down to supporting infantry, vehicles, ships, and planes. You now have someone who can't do that because of social stigma in other countries, something we can't change.
>Should we invest a disproportionate amount of training, manpower and financial resources to provide accomodations for a extremely small minority of persons?
What sort of training do you think will be needed to educate people on transgenders? How about basic training accomodations when you're showering together with 39 other people?
>Should we pay for transitional medications, physical and mental health care, and treatment surgery for transgender people?
GID is a complex issue. Aside from the pills, account for counselling and everything else.
It's a lot different from just saying "yeah, you can wear a turban for your religion" or "yeah, you can fuck dudes when you get home".
>>5455852
That Anon is just asking for both sides of the story. Please go back to /v/ with your dank memes.
>>5447889
That should be treated as a separate issue altogether. Sure, keep a close eye on people who are at risk for mental issues.
>>5447603
I'm surprised they aren't.
>>5447603
The Pentagon should offer a full-ride transition to the first tranny that delivers the head of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. That goatfucker will be dead in two weeks, tops.
>>5480651
To be fair, deploying women in must-hijab countries might have a similar effect, I'd suspect, though perhaps not as severe.
That said, agree otherwise.
>>5480440
Nope. I can tell from the bone structure.
