are we being trolled by society/the media?
I am starting to think the same thing, but then I meet some fellow trans and think. Why are so many of us totally crazy?
>>5394714
>are we being trolled by society/the media?
no, it's just what the average white tranny looks like
>>5394752
Why are crazy people all crazy? Gee, I don't know.
>>5394714
ewww
Chris Chan isn't known outside of the internet, is he?
Its cringe time mothaf-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evlcBtHetkA
Stefonknee is such a ghetto name, why is it spelt...
....
stef-on-knee
STEF ON KNEE
AAAAHHHHHHHH
EEEWWWWW
(also had been reading it as stef-funky up to this point)
Damn I love being stealth. People don't associate me with these kinds of people. Thank goodness I'm not a teenager in today's environment because I'd see this everywhere and end up offing myself because I didn't want to turn into one of these types of people
>>5394826
more like the average white tranny its how the average born before the 90s tranny looks like
>>5395124
You don't think the internet is part of society? I'd argue hes certainly the most infamus lolcow, even people who don't know what lolcows are know who chris chan is.
>>5394714
Looked for an article on this stefonknee person, found this
the article is supposed to be about someone whos trans
yet manages to squeese saying shit like this in:
>Moreover, homosexuals are much more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexuals, which has always made the condemnation of pedophilia quite awkward for the Social Justice crowd.
>An “otherkin” should feel ashamed of crawling around on all fours and telling everyone he identifies as a woodland fox.These behaviors are ridiculous, dishonorable, improper, and shameful.
We getting lumped in with all the freaks now, chaps.
http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/clearly-we-need-more-shame-and-judgment-in-our-society/
>>5395315
Ageplaying taken too far. Shit's hella creepy brah.
Chris-chan is extremely old internet phenomenon and the guy that partially gave autism its name, was before he came out as trans. I don't think mainstream media talks about him?
>>5395354
Tell me about it dat some serious fucked up shit bro.
>>5395363
Oh just you wait, its only a matter of time. The story of stefonknee spread to our shores faster than paula deen on butter, its been reported in our newspapers ffs (uk) so who knows.
>>5395369
Part of the reason why I try to distance myself from the 24/7'ers, including my first dom and her sassy gay best friend.
>>5395371
Well, people do love to read about that kind of stuff. No one watched Dr. Phil because they were interested in psychoanalysis, they just loved to see freaks.
chris chan looks like Sam Gamyi
>>5395189
You just think you are stealth, hon
>>5394714
Yes.
>>5395446
I didn't start at 30. I started rather young and I won in genetics.
>>5395381
24/7ers?
>>5395197
>>5394714
Yeah. Media prefers the stories that make us look like freaks
>>5394714
judging by this i would say yeah
>>5396018
>Media prefers the truth
fixed.
>>5395677
People who live their fetish at all times (or very close to). I'm usually pretty kink positive, but this stuff scares me a lot.
>>5396236
>media prefers the truth
you're hilarious
>>5395677
The crazy fucks that treat BDSM as a lifestyle.
>>5394714
No. Trolling implies intent, or a coverup for failure.
This is just the media being retarded again.
>>5396236
>Media prefers the truth
>media
>truth
>>5395197
huh?
The media likes ratings and ugly trannies make for great clickbait. They don't care about truth or whether someone is legitimately trans, they just want to use the most extreme examples so they can galvanize the public and compel every armchair intellectual to chime in so they can ejaculate their opinions all over the comments section.
Transsexuals have been reduced to living cashcows for sensationalist media and our rights are now a commodity.
>>5395181
It's because he isnt trans, he has an ageplay and sissy fetish, so of course he isnt going to choose a normal name and spell it retarded when he's roleplaying, its got to be retarded legally because its an extension of a persona rather than who he is
>>5395363
HAHAHAHAHA
Holy fucking shit, is that image real?
>>5396236
Kek
There's literally hundreds of ordinary trans people out there. You dont see Jamie Clayton getting the media attention of Bruce Jenner. And no, its not because Jenner is already more famous, even the Kardashians arent in actual news as much as Jenner, theyre confined to gossip rags
Its because Jamies is pretty normal. Makeup artist, acted in a couple things. The only even slightly crazy story is that she dated Keanu Reeves. She's never done anything bizarre so she's not worth covering
Mental disorders often exist as a spectrum. It stands to reason that some trannies will be particularly dysfunctional in comparison to others.
>>5396236
>trusting anything that comes from Jews to be truth
>>5395371
The Express actually stopped reporting on Princess Diana and Madeline McCann to run a piece on Stefonknee
>Their article contains a slideshow of Caitlin Jenner
>>5397897
>The only even slightly crazy story is that she dated Keanu Reeves.
She did? Did they speak up about it?
>>5398211
>The Express actually stopped reporting on Princess Diana and Madeline McCann to run a piece on Stefonknee
I chuckled sir. Normally I'd have to queue till half past bong in the rain, with only a cup of tea to keep me warm because I forgot me jumper and me brolly, to hear a joke that good
>>5398220
Some gossip sites mentioned it, but there's not been any interviews or anything, just pictures of them holding hands, and going to restaurants. It's pretty cute actually
>>5395464
I know this feel.
>>5397887
http://sonichu.com/cwcki
>>5397887
N-NEWFAGS GET OUT
>>5398264
Ive been around since 2008. Do we still consider that being a newfag?
I just make a point of avoiding anything to do with Chris.
>>5397234
BDSM nowadays seems to cover anything that is taboo (a lot rightly so) and ageplay is a huge bdsm thing-i got hit on by a lot of old wrinkly fags when i was on fetlife who were into this.
>>5395315
>glen beck's personal fapcorner of the internet
Nice
>>5398285
>Been on 4chan for 7 years
>Can't recognize Sonichu #1
At some point newfaggotry become a cultural metric, not a temporal one.
>>5397422
Only if there's evidence that the underlying cause of being otherkin is similar to gender dysphoria. People have similarly said that trans people are like BDD or schizophrenia but those comparisons aren't valid unless the causes are similar.
>>5398581
I just told you I avoid Chris Chan shit
>>5397422
> otherkin and trans people are the same
In principle, yes. In cause? Not so much. The vast majority of transexuals are doing it to treat dysphoria. Transexuals who do it because they want to customize themselves are as rare as the tiger man.
That being said, none of it matters.
> and should be treated as such
Yes. Surgery and biotech should be available to anyone for any reason at any time and it should be cheap and safe. Full stop.
>>5398594
There are multiple causes of transexual behavior, ranging from trying to treat dysphoria to 'I just want to'.
>>5398721
>In principle, yes
In principle? No.
It is possible for a human to develop as male or female, or not quite develop as one or the other. It is not possible for a human to develop as any other species than human
>>5398796
> It is not possible for a human to develop as any other species than human
Yeah no that's total bullshit. Learn what transgenics is and then get back to us.
>>5398813
>transgenics
I dont have to look it up to know for a fact it is impossible for a human to naturally develop mentally or otherwise as a non human.
>>5398898
> adding the qualifier 'naturally'
> moving the goal posts this much
lol ok nice job
>>5394714
>not using a recent pic of Christina Rosechu Crocker
sdiujgoigk
i swear reading all these 4chan threads about trans people make me insane. im so glad that there are no trannies like theres out in public in my city.
would have probably killed myself years ago if i had been told im like one of these persons.
okay all of these people are trans and there is no such thing as no tru tras, lets go with that.
but why do they have to make it all so weird and disgusting, Grrrr :(
There's a huge thread about Stefonkee on lolcow.
html
damn it feels good to be ftm
>>5400718
>mfw i see an ftm "penis"
>>5398230
I wish they stayed a couple. Keanu is the only celebrity that I think is a cool guy. They would make such an awwwwwe~some couple. Maybe they still are a couple, but keeping it on the d/l since that is Keanu's style?
>>5401040
I have always loved Keanu. He is love personified. He plays the best wounded sad puppy ever.
"all you do is come here to fuck my mother, and eat her food" "Mother Fucker" "Food Eater"!!
Best line in movie history.
>>5400445
>moving the goal posts this much
Oh Im sorry, when discussing the fact that otherkin is completely impossible in an pordinary human, where as being transgender is not, you decided to talk about intentionally fucking with genetics as if it was the same thing. And I'M the one moving the goalposts?
GG
>>5400947
Im actually a fan of metoidioplasty results but then again im a bislut mtf
http://marcibowers.com/ftm/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/07/RM2.png
>>5402015
>when discussing the fact that otherkin is completely impossible in an pordinary human
That wasn't what was being discussed. The "principle" I was referring to is whether or not they should be treated the same. You can stop trying now.
I think they just don't get it at all
i sent an email to a bunch of new sites basically explain how stefonknee is just some weird fetishist and isnt really trans and then they all replied back saying everything was ok because they were neutral didn't say "she" was doing anything wrong
>>5402086
Except they shouldnt be treated the same, because theyre not naturally occuring fuck wit.
You'd fucking love it if is "stopped trying" because youre on the back foot already.
A human can naturally develop as male or female or neither. No human, in the history of ever, has ever been mixed species. Not ever. Humans cant even breed with our closest relatives, chimps and gorillas. Taking genes out of one thing and putting it in a human, does not change the species of the human, and it doesnt naturally occur, nor affect the mind.
So when we're talking about treating them differently, of fucking course we should, there is no scientific basis for any erson claiming to be otherkin, because even in the bizarre, almost impossible event, that someone had fucked with their genetics, they would still be completely human, and it more than likely wouldnt alter thei mind in anyway. Whereas any human can bee exposed to hormones in the womb or in later development meaning they dont develop as their sex genes dictate, in some way.
Go learn you a knowledge nerd
>>5402157
>Except they shouldnt be treated the same, because theyre not naturally occuring fuck wit.
Why should that have any basis on how we treat them? If you wanna transform your body you should be given the means to do so, regardless of the cause. That's the whole point.
> A human can naturally develop as male or female or neither. No human, in the history of ever, has ever been mixed species. Not ever. Humans cant even breed with our closest relatives, chimps and gorillas.
Irrelevant.
> there is no scientific basis for any person claiming to be otherkin
People claim they're otherkin all the time. You mean there's no scientific basis for otherkin as a neurological disorder, which again I say: who fucking cares? A body transformation is a body transformation is a body transformation. That's the principle. You want a body transformation, you should get one. The same.
You dont like it cause its a reflection of your own freak face that normal people see everyday
>>5402186
>Why should that have any basis on how we treat them?
Medical conditions are covered by insurance and healthcare, simple whims of the bored and attention-hungry are not.
Tattoos, piercing, scarification etc are not covered by insurance or healthcare because you have a choice. Trans people have been demonstrated to have a medical condition, it is not their choice.
You seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding about transgenderism. It seems to me you think they just want to look like the opposite sex and choose to do so, as opposed to having a condition that makes it unbearable for them to live as their current sex.
>you should be given the means to do so
By who? Insurance? Healthcare? No.
And if people have to pay for their own loony surgeries, whats to stop an upper class of genetically enhanced super humans? Might sound a bit science fiction, but it could happen.
>regardless of the cause
Again, medical condition =/= simple whim
>Irrelevant.
Entirely relevant, my point is that there has never been, nor is their the capacity for a human to be a mix of species, psychologically or physically. There is no mechanism through which a human could be considered non human.
So when otherkin claim to be a wolf, a rabbit, or even a fridge. It is of course, nonsense.
Whereas the human brain and body develop as male or female, in part because of chemicals in the womb, so when a trans person says their gender does not match their sex, it is at least possible that something in their brain developed as more feminine or masculine than it should have.
>People claim they're otherkin all the time
And people claim to be jesus all the time. So what?
> You mean there's no scientific basis for otherkin as a neurological disorder,
Demonstrably there is no scientific basis. There is not a single scientific paper on the matter.
It's just the claims of bored attention hungry kids on Tumblr. Ive legitimately seen one claim to be the dwarf planet Pluto.
>>5395363
Chris-chan's cursive is on fucking point.
>>5402546
> Trans people have been demonstrated to have a medical condition, it is not their choice.
Not all trans people are dysphoric. I'm talking about all of them, not just the subset that has gotten the medical world's permission.
> You seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding about transgenderism. It seems to me you think they just want to look like the opposite sex and choose to do so, as opposed to having a condition that makes it unbearable for them to live as their current sex.
I understand that some trans people are transitioning as a treatment. What I'm saying is that even if they weren't, no restriction what soever should take away their right to change their body. The fact that these things can be used to treat gender dysphoria is a nice bonus.
> Again, medical condition =/= simple whim
Not every trans person has a medical need to transition. Even so, it doesn't matter. Bodily autonomy trumps medical need.
> By who? Insurance? Healthcare? No.
The same source that provides every other thing: industry.
> And if people have to pay for their own loony surgeries, whats to stop an upper class of genetically enhanced super humans? Might sound a bit science fiction, but it could happen.
GOOD. This needs to happen sooner, not later. And not just genetically enhanced but mechanically and nanotechnologically enhanced as well.
> Entirely relevant, my point is that there has never been, nor is their the capacity for a human to be a mix of species, psychologically or physically.
But then that's wrong - you can absolutely create a new species that is a hybrid using genetic engineering. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is the ick factor. We've created all sorts of hybrids before.
> And people claim to be jesus all the time. So what?
You said there was no scientific basis for people claiming to be otherkin. Empiricism shows us otherwise - those people absolutely do claim to be otherkin.
![hqdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/tkNwsEZ.jpg "hqdefault[1].jpg")
>>5396236
>media prefers the truth
Mfw 70% of you will kill yourself
>>5402713
>Not all trans people are dysphoric
Dysphoria is what trans people are diagnosed with. So, youre wrong.
>I'm talking about all of them,
Youre talking about people who arent transgender
> not just the subset
Not a subset. If you really want to push it, people who dont have dysphoria and transition would be a subset of actual trans people.
> the medical world's permission.
You mean diagnosis? Like all those people who are bipolar, except they dont meet the criteria to be diagnosed with bipolar, so arent bipolar. But they said they are, how could they be wrong?
>I understand that some trans people are transitioning as a treatment
All of them
>no restriction what soever
You're like a modern day hippy calling for the end of regulation. We need regulation so dumb people dont do dumb things.
>Not every trans person has a medical need to transition
If they dont have dysphoria, they arent trans
> Bodily autonomy trumps medical need.
Nope. Especially not if you're expecting insurance or healthcare to pay up
>The same source that provides every other thing: industry.
That statement is completely meaningless. Definitively say who you think should be offering these procedures, and whether or not an individual pays for it out of their own pocket.
>This needs to happen sooner, not later.
Oh. Im talking to a troll. Fair enough. Literally calling for a super-human ruling class.
Okay. Well, I started so I'll finish.
>But then that's wrong
Except no. There has never been a human genetically altered such that theyre no longer human.
Which is all a tangent from my point that otherkin have no legitimacy for their clams, because presently, none of them have been genetically altered in the first place, and it is impossible for a human mind to develop as non human
>You said there was no scientific basis for people claiming to be otherkin
Liar. See:
>>5402546
>You mean there's no scientific basis for otherkin as a neurological disorder
As if I wouldnt notice.
>>5402853
> You're talking about people who arent transgender
I never said transgender. I don't use transgender as a term, since transexual is a better one and applies to anyone who transitions.
> If you really want to push it, people who dont have dysphoria and transition would be a subset of actual trans people.
Either way they exist and should control their bodies.
>Oh. Im talking to a troll. Fair enough. Literally calling for a super-human ruling class.
I reject the very notion that enhancement will lead to a ruling class. All I meant was that enhancement is a good thing. I hit the character limit before I could clarify.
> Bodily autonomy trumps medical need.
> Nope. Especially not if you're expecting insurance or healthcare to pay up
Whether you're allowed to is a separate issue from who pays for it. For medical purposes insurance is fine. For non-medical reasons, less so. Regardless it should be as inexpensive as possible and that can be achieved through ending the medical world's monopoly on biotech.
> We need regulation so dumb people don't do dumb things.
Not when it comes to their own bodies. Interactions with other people, fine. Regulation is legitimate there. But for self experimentation and modification regulation is not only evil but ineffective. You saw how much people respected regulations on abortion and drugs, you tell me how useful you think body regulations will be.
> You mean there's no scientific basis for otherkin as a neurological disorder
> As if I wouldnt notice.
That was my attempt at interpreting what you meant vs what you said. Apparently I was right.
> There has never been a human genetically altered such that they're no longer human.
You said the capacity doesn't exist. It does.
> Which is all a tangent from my point that otherkin have no legitimacy for their clams,[...] and it is impossible for a human mind to develop as non human
Otherkin just means you have a non-human identity, and individuals all make differing claims.
>>5403044
>applies to anyone who transitions.
No, it applies to transgender people who get sex reassignment surgery.
>Either way they exist and should control their bodies.
People who arent transgender shouldnt be allowed to have hormones or SRS, because they dont have the condition for which those are treatment.
>I reject the very notion that enhancement will lead to a ruling class.
Except if it is only affordable for the mega rich, which it is. And if there's no limit to what they can have done, which is what you advocate.
>For non-medical reasons, less so
You literally cant argue insurance or healthcare should pay for procedures that arent treating medical conditions
> the medical world's monopoly on biotech.
Only certain people have the skill and knowledge to work with certain instruments and perform procedures
>evil
Is just a buzzword to make anything you dont like sound worse than it is.
>saw how much people respected regulations on abortion and drugs
2 completely non comparable things. Hormones and sex change surgeries arent being offered by gangs, they arent simple to make or do either. Plus trans people in any sense are 0.3% of the population, there isnt enough demand to warrant underground procedures
>That was my attempt at interpreting what you meant vs what you said. Apparently I was right.
Bullshit.
You asked if I thought there was any scientific basis for otherkin as a neurological disorder. I said no, because there isnt. And then you tried to claim that what we'd actually been talking about was whether or not people claimed to be otherkin,.
It was the most feeble bait and switch I have ever seen, and your attempts to cover it up are pathetic.
>You said the capacity doesn't exist. It does.
It does in the nebulous sense that one day it could happen. However currently, it doesnt exist, and cant happen.
>Otherkin just means you have a non-human identity
They can claim what they like, it is literally impossible for their brains to develop as non human.
>>5402837
The transgender suicide ATTEMPT rate is 40%. Far fewer actually kill themselves.
>>5400458
Is that last one for real?
>>5403177
No obviously not, you fucking retard.
>>5403155
>People who arent transgender shouldnt be allowed to have hormones or SRS, because they dont have the condition for which those are treatment.
Alcohol is a valid treatment for bacterial infection. Should we also limit its use to only that? There's more to the world than just medicine. If you only live a life by what is 'medically necessary' then you don't have much of a life at all.
> Except if it is only affordable for the mega rich, which it is. And if there's no limit to what they can have done, which is what you advocate.
Prices for popular technologies drop over time. Besides, with enhancement you can enhance every part of the person, not just the 'bad' stuff. There's no reason to assume enhanced humans would be domineering, other than your own internal fears of inadequacy, or that others would be priced out of the market. If you dispute this, remember that the earliest cell phones would cost thousands of dollars today if adjusted for inflation.
> Only certain people have the skill and knowledge to work with certain instruments and perform procedures
Right, and the medical world has a monopoly on those people due to the law. There is nothing preventing other industries from training people in surgical procedures or biotech other than archaic regulation.
> 2 completely non comparable things. Hormones and sex change surgeries arent being offered by gangs
Gangs and ease of manufacture have nothing to do with how much people respect the law. Nice try, but I can spot a red herring when I see one.
> Plus trans people in any sense are 0.3% of the population, there isnt enough demand to warrant underground procedures
Self-medders already exist. There IS a black market.
> They can claim what they like, it is literally impossible for their brains to develop as non human.
But that isn't the same as having a nonhuman identity. You're generalizing all transhumans and otherkin into a single strawman so you can ignore them more easily.
> You asked if I thought there was any scientific basis for otherkin as a neurological disorder.
Right, that was after you said "there is no scientific basis for any erson claiming to be otherkin" in >>5402157
> And then you tried to claim that what we'd actually been talking about was whether or not people claimed to be otherkin,.
See above, you have your order of events wrong. Look at >>5402157
>>5403177
Yes.
>>5394714
Wow, this thread is filled with a lot of hate.
Why can't we all just get along girls?
>>5403203
>Alcohol is a valid treatment for bacterial infection. Should we also limit its use to only that?
Another poor analogy.
Alcohol actually has multiple uses. Hormones and SRS do not.
If you asked me should rubbing alcohol (thats the one used on infection just in case you dont know) only be used to treat bacterial infection, and not say, rubbed on your skin for the sake of it, I would say it should only be used on infection
>over time
Key word there. Thanks for proving me right.
>your own internal fears of inadequacy
Or the fact that literally any differences between humans spark conflict, particularly if one side thinks theyre inherently better than the other.
> a monopoly on those people due to the law.
What you mean to say is these people have to be properly trained and monitored so they can be held accountable
>I can spot a red herring when I see one.
Painfully stupid.
Respect for the law is the irrelevant part. The important thing is supply and demand. With 0.3% of the population as your demand, almost all of which will go through proper procedure anyway, there is maybe 0.01% of the population asking for illegal hormones and surgeries. It isnt worth the time or money to supply them, particularly because they people making drugs and performing illegal abortions cant manufacture hormones themselves in labs, or perform SRS.
> There IS a black market.
No theres a completely legal market illegally supplying, that isnt the same thing
>a nonhuman identity
A non human identity is bullshit. They may as well identify as an apache attack helicopter. It doesnt mean they are one, nor should they be allowed to pretend they are.
Whereas trans people at least have scientific evidence for their feelings, more than just "I want to be that, so Im going to call myself that!"
>>5403211
Incorrect.
> there is no scientific basis for any person claiming to be otherkin,
As in "there is no legitimacy behind their claims".
Not that I should have to explain that, you know full well thats what that meant, as you said:
>You mean there's no scientific basis for otherkin as a neurological disorder
See look at that, its almost as if you understood the meaning behind my words or something.
Anyway, I replied with:
>Demonstrably there is no scientific basis. There is not a single scientific paper on the matter.
The fact here I also said:
>It's just the claims of bored attention hungry kids on Tumblr
Means there is no possible way you could think I was denying people claim to be otherkin.
But despite this you still said:
>You said there was no scientific basis for people claiming to be otherkin. Empiricism shows us otherwise - those people absolutely do claim to be otherkin.
Trying to pretend we were really talking about whether or not they make the claim, despite it being obvious to both of us we were talking about scientific evidence for their claim
You disingenuous turd.
>>5403258
>Alcohol actually has multiple uses. Hormones and SRS do not.
Yes they do. There are people on hormones for the skin benefits. And transitioning without dysphoria is totally legitimate.
> What you mean to say is these people have to be properly trained and monitored so they can be held accountable
No, I meant what I said. You can monitor and train any people. If the gaming industry suddenly decides they want to train surgeons for vestibular implants to cure VR sickness, they would have to change the law first. It has nothing to do with training and accountability and everything to do with hiding behind the 'medically necessary' excuse.
> If you asked me should rubbing alcohol only be used to treat bacterial infection, and not say, rubbed on your skin for the sake of it, I would say it should only be used on infection
Well, at least you admit that you're a medical fascist. Good to know that all those people who use it as a solvent for their tools are now no longer allowed to.
> Respect for the law is the irrelevant part.
No it isn't, it's my point as to why the regulations are ineffective. Nobody is going to follow a law that infringes on their values. I'd use an analogy but you'd continue to pick apart the irrelevant bits and display them as 'refutation'
> A non human identity is bullshit. They may as well identify as an apache attack helicopter. It doesnt mean they are one, nor should they be allowed to pretend they are.
You want to police people's imagination? I shouldn't be surprised but damn. How do you plan on enforcing your rules on people's pretending?
> more than just "I want to be that, so Im going to call myself that!"
Another mis-representation of the debate. What I'm defending is: "I want to be that, so I'm going to try to make it happen."
If your attack helicopter really identifies as that, then they'll be banging down DARPA's door and demanding to have their brain put into a copter. It's easy to sort the fakers from the real deal.
>>5403301
>There are people on hormones for the skin benefits
You mean there intended use. Thats a different reason for use, not a different use. Thats like saying some people use rubbing alcohol to disinfect their hands, rather than to disinfect a wound.
> transitioning without dysphoria is totally legitimate.
No. No it isnt. If you want people that think like that, go to Tumblr
>It has nothing to do with training and accountability
Except for, you know, medical standards, ensuring these people only do these things when they ought to, and not for whatever bullshit reason they like
>it's my point as to why the regulations are ineffective
No your point was if people could only get medically necessary hormones and SRS itd be the same as drugs and abortion. Except it wouldnt because theres a minuscule demand, its not worth the time or money to try and set up some illegal industry.
>I'd use an analogy but
Your analogies are just bad
> imagination
You hit the nail on the head. Its imagination. It isnt real. They arent granted to some magical right to do whatever they want, because they imagined something.
> "I want to be that, so I'm going to try to make it happen."
Literally no different. A person isnt a cat because they call themselves a cat. In the same way theyre not the dwarf planet Pluto just because theyve said they are.
>If your attack helicopter really identifies as that, then they'll be banging down DARPA's door and demanding to have their brain put into a copter
You are the most blatant troll.
Im done with you. Its fun while I pretend this is shit you believe, but you're having to double down on stupid shit because you cant back pedal and it isnt believable.
Get good scrub.
>>5403280
I'm guessing you're part of the medical establishment or a gatekeeper of another sort? You realize restricting medicine is not going to help these people who suck at transitioning get any hotter? Or do you want to keep them ugly?
>>5403301
Transhumanisms a cool concept. Not sure why people are so opposed. I'd say the main way transgenderism (for aesthetic not dysphoric reasons) is different from otherkin is that you can actually be transgender and look great whereas it is not possible with current technology to transition to a dolphin and look great. In 2000 years when tech has advanced to the point when you can look exactly the same as a dolphin and dolphins will treat you as such (as is the case for qts transgirls and girls) I don't see otherkin being regarded as an issue.
>>5403339
>>5403258
>Alcohol actually has multiple uses. Hormones and SRS do not.
They do, they use them for contraceptives. Only those are generally far more dangerous xenoestrogen which happen to kill thousands of women each year through embolisms.
They're handed out as otc meds to anyone though.
I don't see why it's your place to say that feminine guys who want to take estrogen so their body doesn't turn to shit are wrong. Especially when they may have something related to your condition.
>>5403362
>I'm guessing you're part of the medical establishment or a gatekeeper of another sort?
Oh dear, it seems some how I'm on Tumblr.
Fuck off.
>You realize restricting medicine is not going to help these people who suck at transitioning get any hotter?
Wow, its almost like people who wait decades before deciding they're "trans" and then dont meet any of the requirements to get diagnosed- why, its almost as if they're not transgender at all, isnt it?
>>5403396
>They do, they use them for contraceptives
Outright lie.
>They're handed out as otc meds to anyone though.
Another lie, considering in the US people who self med need to order online.
>feminine guys who want to take estrogen so their body doesn't turn to shit are wrong
Their own vanity does not entitle them to hormones. Medical supplies should be reserved for medical issues.
>Especially when they may have something related
Nothing is related to transgenderism, it is a stand alone issue
> your condition.
Awfully big assumption there.
>>5403433
I don't see you proposing solutions to help people who don't qualify as dysphoric but who insist on transitioning look any hotter.
For instance, Chris Chan looks so bad because of their overweightness and facial stubble. They would look at least 20% better with facial hair removal and significant weight loss. Maybe Chris Chan is too crazy to convince of this but you're average non-autistic MTF certainly isn't
>>5394826
I was born in 1989. I've been on hormones over 7 years, and look great. Pre 90's birthdate is fine as long as you started in your teens.
>>5403433
>outright lie
http://clotcare.org/oralcontraceptivebloodclots2.aspx
You're full of it. They use xenoestrogens for contraceptives, asides from the fact they've been adulterated to be far more lethal to the patient, it's still hormones being sold at the drugstores to any girl who asks.
Granted it's just contraceptives that are handed out everywhere, but that's all more the reason to treat the much safer bioidentical stuff as otc as well.
>Their own vanity does not entitle them
Your strawmen doesn't justify your meddling with my body.
>related
Not talking about otherkin, just effeminate gay males who have biomarkers, might even have gotten the same diagnosis as you but just went about a different route to dealing with it.
Not using the label trans or trying present that way so it's none of your business what we do.
>>5403468
>solutions to help people who don't qualify as dysphoric but who insist on transitioning look any hotter.
They dont get a solution, if theyre ugly thats their own problem. Theyre also not trans. If they were trans theyd have dysphoria and easily get a diagnosis for it. It isnt difficult in the slightest.
They dont get to transition just because they really really feel like it at the time
>Chris Chan looks so bad because of their overweightness and facial stubble
He also isnt trans. Troll on the internet have fucked with his already autistic as fuck head for almost a decade now. Look into some of the other shit he's done, hes blatantly not got the capacity to know what he is or isnt. Additionally, he's never had a girlfriend and has admitted in videos he thinks "being a woman" means he could convince a lesbian to fuck him.
God awful example, literally using someone who isnt trans to try and convince me other people, who arent trans either, deserve to be called trans and get whatever they want
>>5403501
>They use xenoestrogens for contraceptives
>therefore thats the same as HRT
God youre fuckng stupid.
Next you'll be raving about them using mercury in vaccines.
>Your strawmen
HAHAHAHAHA
You literally used the example of a gay man wanting to look feminine and so his "body doesn't turn to shit". And then when I talk about vanity, you call it a strawman!
HAHAHAHA
you are just too fucking funny man. Really good, top notch. More trolls should be as funny as you, they really should.
> doesn't justify your meddling with my body.
Youre the one meddling with your body, using resources you arent entitle to fuck wit.
>might even have gotten the same diagnosis as you but just went about a different route to dealing with it.
Good god. Youre literally saying "trans women are the same as gay men" an argument that was debunked as far back as the 80's. fucking Christ.
>Not using the label trans or trying present that way
Well actually that was exactly what was being discussed earlier. People who didnt have dysphoria still claiming to be transgender and demanding they get access to hormones and surgeries despite not having literally the only symptom required for diagnosis.
> so it's none of your business what we do.
Its everyone's business when you take what doesnt belong to you
>>5403525
>>5403507
Possibly gay male or straight (trans or cis) female who is highly attracted to male body types and is offended at losing them? Do you want everyone besides yourself to look like Brad Pitt? I kinda feel the reverse and that everyone should look like Pamela Anderson. Maybe that's where we disagree.
>>5403537
You are rambling nonsense. Come back when youre coherent.
>>5403541
Could be a resource thing too. Maybe you feel your beauty (or what little of it you have) is what gives you value. So you think the less hotness there is to go around the more valuable a commodity you are.
>>5403525
Same hormones asides from the fact they stuck a methyl or something that didn't belong on it to enhance kinetics. If it look like a duck, then why not compare them to their safer bioidentical counterparts?
>"body doesn't turn to shit". And then when I talk about vanity, you call it a strawman!
Body Dysmorphia isn't the same thing as vanity. Lots of doctors will put that under signs of GD.
>trans women are the same as
No I'm just saying the lines are blurred some times. There's femgen posters who have gotten the GD diagnosis and a lot of the body issues could be put under Dysphoria, even if it isn't quite the same as yours.
You're just being irrational at this point.
>>5403554
You are seriously beginning to sound retarded. Ive made my position abundantly clear, people who are not trans gender should not get hormones and surgery
YOU'RE the one bringing up attractiveness and projecting like a motherfucker. Im not even speaking in those terms, only you are.
>>5403594
>Same hormones asides from the fact they stuck a methyl or something that didn't belong on it to enhance kinetics.
So not the same then for a start.
And secondly, hormones are fucking hormones you dumb shit. HRT has no other application than for trans people. You are too dumb.
>Body Dysmorphia
>I cant handle the ageing process and not being attractive, I have dysmorphia! :(
Fuck off with that shit. Self diagnosis bullshit.
>. Lots of doctors will put that under signs of GD.
>trans women are the same as
No. No they wont. Gender dysphoria is discomfort with primary and secondary sex characteristics, it isnt wanting to be a faggy twink and getting butthurt that life didnt work out that way
>There's femgen posters who have gotten the GD diagnosis
Holy shit, you mean transgender people have been diagnosed as transgender? Incredible!
I dont give a flying fuck what they go on to do from there, claim theyre not actualy trans, transition, I dont care.
>You're just being irrational at this point.
And youre just being disingenuous at this point
>this think is KIND OF like this thing, stop being so mean! :(((((
Fuck off back to Tumblr where you can claim whatever you like and never be challenged.
>>5403525
>stolen
You obviously don't get economics either.
If other people and their private insurance pay for services, that brings prices down for you.
>>5395181
Because he is a cross-dressing fetishist and not trans
Only thing I worry about is my chin and my nose.
Nose could be thiner and chin could be slightly smaller but it's really not that big. Everything else I can take care of with make-up or lazers.
And only then will I be confident that I won't look like those people when i'm older
[spoiler]I'm already 28[/spoiler]
>>5403616
I'm >>5403554
>>5403594
is a different person.
The purpose of this thread was to discuss why the media pays so much attention to chrischan and ugly transgirls/ hons instead of the qts. One of the reasons is likely folks like yourself who want to suppress the idea of hot transgirls. Because if it was well known that it was possible to transition and be hot (let's say for the sake of argument that this would only apply to young people) a lot of young guys who may not otherwise transition would transition. For some reason which you have not elaborated upon you seem to feel threatened by this idea.
>>5403622
Kek. Theyre not for you, go fuck yourself if you cant handle that.
>>5403616
>So not the same
Very similar effects, I'd just rather not take them and play roulette with blood clots.
>Self diagnosis bullshit
The GD diagnosis tho
>Gender dysphoria is discomfort secondary sex characteristics
Remarkably common with that demo, just look at femgen
>I dont give a flying fuck what they go on to do from there, claim theyre not actualy trans, transition, I dont care.
>Fuck off back to Tumblr where you can claim whatever you like and never be challenged.
Yeah... You're kinda contradicting yourself again.
>>5403641
>Theyre not for you, go fuck yourself if you cant handle that.
And you get to decide this, why? You've made your position clear, but not explained what gives you the right to decide what valid uses are.
>>5403641
Stay mad that boys are using your pills and cute enhancing cosmetic procedures.
>>5403639
>the media pays so much attention to chrischan
No media outlet has ever covered him.
>One of the reasons is likely folks like yourself who want to suppress the idea of hot transgirls.
Assumptions assumptions.
The only thing Ive said, is only people diagnosed as trans get hormones and SRS. According to you, that meansI want to "suppress the idea of hot transgirls". Is your victim complex that strong? People saying only people with a medical conditions should get the treatment for said condition, now apparently means you just want everyone to be ugly.
Anyone reading this can see how stupid you sound.
>Because if it was well known that it was possible to transition and be hot
Like Jamie Clayton? Seen here: >>5397897
>a lot of young guys who may not otherwise transition would transition
Riiiiiight. So are these people actually transgender? If so, they would transition regardless of whether or not they were going to be pretty. Or kill themselves. Or both.
And if they werent transgender, and werent going to transition, why would it be good that the see an attractive woman and simply decide that they want that too, despite not actually having a medical condition?
> For some reason which you have not elaborated upon
Blatantly false. I've talked heaps in this thread about only giving medical treatment to those with a medical need. Aside from that poinnt, people who arent transgender and transition are infamously bad for the trans image, they detranstition, do creepy things with kids, walk around flaunting the fact they dont know anything about women or trans people.
3 examples of which are the men in OP's picture.
>you seem to feel threatened by this idea.
How awful of me to want legitimately trans people representing the trans community and using the resources available for transition
>>5403694
>transition
"so then I take it you should have no objection to feminine twinks and the like taking hormone or using procedures similar to your so long as they insist they aren't trans.
>>5403646
>Very similar
But not the same.
>The GD diagnosis tho
Yes, from a medical professional who's spent the best part of a decade reaching that position. Not some tard on 4chan who read about a condition and decided he must have it. Like ever hypochondriac to ever visit Web MD.
>Remarkably common with that demo, just look at femgen
Nope what they experience is different.
>Yeah... You're kinda contradicting yourself again.
Oh dear, is someone too stupid to know what a contradiction is?
I said once theyd been diagnosed with GD i dont care what they do. They can claim theyre not trans, or they can transition with resources they are entitled to, I dont care, they have the diagnosis.
I can think that, and also think you ought to fuck off to Tumblr, where they'll accept your retard idea that people without diagnosis should get treatment
That isnt a contradiction, the 2 statements arent even linked.
>>5403669
I didnt decide, the medical community decided a long time ago that only people with medical conditions get the relevant treatment.
its why youre not just allowed to go get yourself some morphine just cos ya really love how it feels.
>>5403684
kk
>>5403709
Are you retarded?
If theyre not trans they dont get to transition. I really dont know how simple I can make this for you
>>5403339
>Except for, you know, medical standards, ensuring these people only do these things when they ought to, and not for whatever bullshit reason they like
Other industries can do this too. Again, I ask. Why does the medical industry get the monopoly? Why not literally any other tech industry? They can all meet these requirements. The medical world is concerned only with keeping people alive and reducing suffering. They don't care about anything else, so why do they get to be the be-all-end-all of biotech?
>>5403726
> I didnt decide, the medical community decided a long time ago that only people with medical conditions get the relevant treatment.
You mean the same medical world that used to do lobotomies and call homosexuality a mental illness? Forgive me if I don't see them as infallible as you do.
>>5403709
>>5403694
But see if non-trans people still attempt to transition and are grouped in by society as trans it would hurt this person's idea of the "trans image/brand". What they're not seeing, probably because they're not very visual or are a jellybelly, is that lots of people care about prettiness. Preventing people from fully transitioning and being pretty would create a lot of ugly people who would hurt the trans brand.
So I don't really believe this person believes in the trans brand/image argument. There's something else going on, not just with this person but gatekeeping in general. The medical establishment idea and the "desire to keep born men men cause they're attracted to men" as well as the "I want to be the only hot chick" all sort of explain it pretty well tho
>>5403743
>The medical world is concerned only with keeping people alive and reducing suffering
And isnt that just so selfish of them?
>You mean the same medical world that used to do lobotomies and call homosexuality a mental illness?
HAHAHAHAHAHA
>offering treatment to those with a medical condition = 40 years ago medicine was wrong!
You cannot be this stupid. I refuse to believe it. The idea that you only treat people who need treating is never going to go away. Its not a matter of debate. Fucking Christ youre too funny.
>>5403737
>If theyre not trans they dont get to transition
don't tell feminine twinks what they can or cannot do, shitlord
i'll keep taking hormones and you can't do anything about it, bud
>>5403737
The social and medical parts of transition are different. Could be entirely possible to use the medical stuff but be more comfortable as a feminine boy socially.
>>5403759
>The idea that you only treat people who need treating is never going to go away.
So I take it you're against all forms of cosmetic surgery? Not only talking things like breast augmentation here but also "unnecessary" procedures like braces for teeth straightening, hrt for menopausal women, etc.
>>5403759
>And isnt that just so selfish of them?
No, it's good that they specialize. But it also means that they should keep their noses where it belongs and not be able to ban anything for non-medical use. They can ban things for medical use, sure, but if you agree that their job is to reduce suffering and keep people alive (which is the prevailing medical philosophy), then you must also concede that their authority ends at those boundaries. They don't get to dictate non-medical use of technology because quite frankly, that isn't their job.
And as such it follows that other industries *must* be given the authority to use biotech, because the medical world doesn't need to take on their responsibilities.
> The idea that you only treat people who need treating is never going to go away.
Neither is the idea that there is more than one use for things.
>>5403760
>TFW angry by the booker pissed that fem twinks will compete with them for guys
>>5403749
>Preventing people from fully transitioning and being pretty would create a lot of ugly people who would hurt the trans brand.
Why the fuck are you so insistent on making it about attractiveness? Good god its all you ever talk about.
If a person is transgender, they can get a diagnosis, transition and be as "pretty" as they like. If theyre not transgender, and not recognised as transgender, then it doesnt fucking matter how pretty they are does it? Because theyre not trans, and they dont reflect that group
Its when you blindly accept that people just are what they say they are that you end up with Jenner, Stefonknee, and Chris-chan. They are the ones doing horrendous damage to the trans image, because people dont question these fucks, and theyve never been made to see a professional and get a diagnosis.
> There's something else going on, not just with this person but gatekeeping in general.
Youre a loony conspiracy theorist.
>"desire to keep born men men cause they're attracted to men"
Except that hasnt been said. What has been said is keep people who arent actually transgender from transitioning.
>"I want to be the only hot chick"
Also not been said. Again, I'll point you to the fact, that until you showed up, the conversation never once mentioned attractiveness.
>sort of explain it pretty well tho
yes anon, your insane theories, outright denial of evidence presented, and a determination to misrepresent arguments, all add up pretty well, you must be right
>>5403694
> Aside from that poinnt, people who arent transgender and transition are infamously bad for the trans image
So instead of holding judgemental people accountable for their judgements, you engage in victim blaming?
> How awful of me to want legitimately trans people representing the trans community
How come just the transgenders get to use the 'trans' prefix and not all transitioners? What makes you so special that you get to shorten your term so far that it loses actual meaning and then get upset when ambiguity happens?
> and using the resources available for transition
You mean biotech, that thing with a huge variety of uses that literally all of mankind participated in the creation of?
>>5403771
Am I against:
>breast augmentation
Yep
>braces for teeth straightening
well by your own defiition that isnt unecessary, so no
>hrt for menopausal women
yep
You really are a special kind of stupid.
>>5403774
>and not be able to ban anything for non-medical use
In your opinion, based on nothing more than Marxist ideals
>Neither is the idea that there is more than one use for things.
Pithy. But that isnt being discussed. Youre talking about giving treatment to those who dont need it. That is never going to happen. In the same way theyre not going to start handing out morphine to anyone who wants to give it a try.
>>5403775
If thats what you want to believe
>>5403726
>medical professional
Yep, although the DSM requirements have been liberalized a fair bit. At any rate, I can't see how you'd say popping a few pills is somehow a worse alternative to the nasty eating disorders I had all childhood?
>different
Seems very similar, most would be miserable with masculine secondary traits.
>Tumblr, where they'll accept your retard idea that people without diagnosis should get treatment
It's actually a libertarian idea. If there virtually no hazard to this form of body autonomy, then it's not your place or the state's to meddle.
People have just as much a right to control their bodies form as they do for abortions and other things that are handed out as is.
>>5403789
>victim blaming
Christ this really has turned into Tumblr.
But yeah, sure. When a person who isnt trans, decides theyre going to say they are and takes a big fat dump on the trans image, Im going to hold them accountable for their actions, rather than demand all of society say they arent exactly what they are.
If you want society to be better to trans people, it starts by only having legitimate trans people transition, and reflect well on the community.
>transitioners
Because there are people who transition without the associated mental condition that gives the bizarre act of hormone replacement and SRS its legitimacy.
That medical legitimacy is the only thing keeping trans people acceptable. A lot of people know they cant help it and dont deserve to be punished for how they feel.
Like it or not, if they saw it as a choice, theyd try to ban it all together. Or at the very least, insurance and healthcare would no longer feel the need to cover it, and every legitimate trans person out there ends up paying out their own pocket. Enjoy hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical bills because some dumb fuck decided it actually IS a choice.
>>5403794
Insanity, so long as people pay for it, it isn't your business what they do with their looks or their bodies. Individualism and natural rights aren't wrong and they drive innovation. Biotech draws from this.
I'd rather a liberalized system like the one in the states over a failing fossil like the NHS any day.
>>5403806
>I can't see how you'd say popping a few pills is somehow a worse alternative to the nasty eating disorders I had all childhood?
surprisingly, fucking with your own biochemistry for the sake of it isnt something you should be doing. I dont give a flying fuck what else you had. Just because you consider one to be the lesser of 2 evils doesnt mean you should be allowed to be doing either.
>Seems very similar
Oh well if it SEEMS similar guess you must be right. Throw out science, throw out psychology, if 2 things SEEM similar the must be the same. Guess we should just treat bacteria and viruses the same, after all they both SEEM pretty similar
>It's actually a libertarian idea
Which speaks volumes to its legitimacy. No country in the history of ever has employed libertarian ideas because they dont work.
>>5403824
Oh! We live in a magical world! Other people's actions have no impact on anyone but themselves! How glorious! Thank you anon! Thank you for opening my eyes!
Oh. No wait. My mistake. Yeah, actually the human race is this huge society with limited resources and complex social structure. The actions of one persona affect others, and their own selfishness doesnt justify whatever they want. Shit.
>>5403817
Your lack of liking pretty things blinds you. Another reason many (probably about 40% of the population) people will like trans people is if they're pretty. People like pretty things.
Other people believe in letting people do what they want and so will not obstruct people from transitioning even if it is a choice.
Do you really believe that Trans people's growth in social acceptance is because it's being treated as some obscure medical condition since the 1980s? You don't think maybe it has something to do with the advances in biotech such as breast augmentation, hormones, makeup, etc. which have allowed the top tier of trans girls to be much more attractive?
>>5403794
>In your opinion, based on nothing more than Marxist ideals
You have justification for the medical wold seizing authority over other industries? I'd like to hear it.
> Youre talking about giving treatment to those who dont need it. That is never going to happen
There are examples in your post (specifically breast augmentation) that aren't medically necessary but happen regardless. Never going to happen, you say?
In fact, breast augmentation and other cosmetic surgery is the perfect example of what I'm talking about with the medical world's inconsistent goals. There's no reason the medical world should be doing breast augmentation at all - there should be an entirely separate industry for cosmetic augmentation that uses the same biotech, but can specialize. The medical world doesn't need the baggage, but it's still a valid industry.
> In the same way theyre not going to start handing out morphine to anyone who wants to give it a try.
Recreational drug prohibition has existed for only a sliver of human history. Don't assume it to be the norm, or even a good idea.
>>5403817
There you go again, claiming control over a prefix and trying to be the language police. Your reputation is not more important than other people's freedom. It's entirely selfish of you to hold this position and to be quite frank, you don't deserve the body freedom you do have. Strict medicalists like you deserve a cure for dysphoria, not continued research into palliative treatments. Save the transition for the people who would appreciate it.
> That medical legitimacy is the only thing keeping trans people acceptable. A lot of people know they cant help it and dont deserve to be punished for how they feel.
The medical world isn't going to stop treating dysphoria, that would go against their core philosophy.
>>5403837
You can justify any tyranny this way. There are many things that technically affect the group, but that doesn't give me the right to manage your life. There are some individual freedoms that must be respected, and control over your own body is a pretty big one.
>>5403839
>Your lack of liking pretty things blinds you
Where the fuck are you even getting this from? You sound retarded as fuck.
Again, YOU are the only one talking about "pretty things" I am talking about the trans community and medical resources
>people will like trans people is if they're pretty
They sure do, and Jenner, Stefonknee and Chris-chan arent pretty. Theyre also not transgender. But they been allowed to label themselves as such and transition.
Why wouldnt you want to stop that, anon?
>Other people believe in letting people do what they want
And they are so very wrong to believe that
>Do you really believe that Trans people's growth in social acceptance is because it's being treated as some obscure medical condition
No, I believe the indisputable fact that gender dysphoria isnt a choice means people grudgingly accept it. People are still murdered for being transgender. Do you really think that will improve if suddenly any one can be called trans and o whatever and suddenly all these people who arent trans start misrepresenting the people who really are trans and making things worse.
>such as breast augmentation, hormones, makeup, etc
It doesnt hurt. Obviously. But having those tools doesnt mean they should suddenly be applied to anyone who wants to call themselves transgender. Explained above
>>5403832
>surprisingly, fucking with your own biochemistry for the sake of it isnt something you should be doing.
>YFW biochem major
Seriously though, you only need to see what Ana does to your biochemistry, or development. They've done studies on cross sex HRT, it's hardly any different than placebo I risk and the machinery our cells have to handle it is the same as the machinery in everyone that has it endogenously.
You sound almost like the people who say you shouldn't have it with that panic stuff.
>Throw out science, throw out psychology
Uh, GD diagnosis, also very high 2d4d and mom was appetently on one sort of E therapy during pregnancy.
It's not hard to assume it might have the same mechanism as yours.
>. No country in the history of ever has employed libertarian ideas
That classic liberalism tho.
Are you telling me the states and the negative rights it's founders talked about somehow don't count under your criteria? You're really arbitrary.
>>5403837
>limited resources
Medicine E is an economy of scale. That mean the more people buying previously rare stuff, the more affordable it becomes.
>>5403862
>Do you really think that will improve if suddenly any one can be called trans
Anyone who undergoes a radical body transformation is going to be treated that way by society. If anything, having more people endure that suffering will mean more people fighting for your acceptance. And not to mention, like >>5403869 said, more transitions means cheaper HRT. More surgeries means better surgeries.
What you should be worried about is people who call themselves trans-whatever and then make no effort to manifest their identities through their physicality.
>>5403851
>medical wold seizing authority over other industries
*ahem* medicine should not be used recreationally.
Fin.
It really is that simple. Because youre not really talking about technology in other fields, youre talking about the same technology, in the same field, applied to people who dont need it.
> Never going to happen, you say?
Breast augmentation has literally never been a treatment to anything.
>inb4 mastectomy
not the same thing
> there should be an entirely separate industry for cosmetic augmentation
And there is, plastic surgeons are very rarely employed in hospitals.
>Recreational drug prohibition has existed for only a sliver of human history. Don't assume it to be the norm, or even a good idea.
Okay, legalise everything. Sure. Meth, heroin,maybe invent something new. Sure make it all legal. I wanna watch.
> Your reputation is not more important than other people's freedom.
Other peoples selfish desires are not more important than the wellbeing of an entire community
> you don't deserve the body freedom you do have.
Oh no! :( gonna take it away from me? Think you'll find my body freedom is exactly the same as anyone who is within the bounds of the law. Suck a dick.
>Save the transition for the people who would appreciate it.
HAHAHA
I'll bet in your mind that was a really cutting 'drop the mic' kinda moment. Try harder man.
>The medical world isn't going to stop treating dysphoria, that would go against their core philosophy.
Well firstly, good, because im only interested in treating dysphoria. Not whiny faggots who want to be a twink to get a man.
But secondly, medical professionals in the 90's refused to treat trans people and let them die. So. Yeah. Make of that what you will.
>>5403861
>You can justify any tyranny this way.
Cool, will do.
>>5403891
Brah this person isn't very visual and so probably doesn't consider manifesting physically a thing
>>5403864
>I risk
In risk
>>5403864
>it's hardly any different than placebo
Out and out lie. Maybe when youre an old hon.
>t's not hard to assume it might have the same mechanism as yours.
Not the topic being discussed, you wanted to talk about fags in fem gen who kinda sorta have symptoms of GD when actually it isnt that at all.
You got diagnosis, Im satisfied, but this really is either or. They either have the diagnosis and are transgeder regardless of what they do with that information, or they fail to get diagnosis, arent transgender, and dont get to transition.
>You're really arbitrary.
Im wounded
>>5403869
Except its still in limited production. Supply and demand man, up ur economics
>>5403891
>Anyone who undergoes a radical body transformation is going to be treated that way by society
Yes, and if they had to be confirmed for being allowed that radical body transformation, this wouldnt be an issue
> If anything, having more people endure that suffering will mean more people fighting for your acceptance.
No. No it really wont. Society will, and does point to the people who arent transgender who pretend that they are, calls them freaks and calls to take more of their rights away.
Is it any wonder 58% of americans say transgender people should use the bathroom of their birth sex, when people like Stefonknee are allowed to transition and claim theyre transgender?
>>5403897
>*ahem* medicine should not be used recreationally.
>Fin.
You can say that but it won't change the fact that people are going to use med tech for whatever the fuck they want, medically necessary or not. "Should" is just you projecting your values onto it.
> Because youre not really talking about technology in other fields, youre talking about the same technology, in the same field, applied to people who dont need it.
If it isn't medically necessary, it isn't medicine. Cosmetic biotech isn't medical. As such, same tech, different field.
> Okay, legalise everything. Sure. Meth, heroin,maybe invent something new. Sure make it all legal. I wanna watch.
You'll get better addiction treatments, increased tax revenue, better trust in government, and most importantly, people with less of a stick up their ass about nonstandard brain states.
> gonna take it away from me?
I don't need to. If your restrictive attitudes towards body freedom and bioethics prevail, the medical world will do it for me. Remember that transition is not curative. All it takes is for one researcher to figure out the neuroscience of self image and transition is done as a treatment for dysphoria. You'll be dragged back to your birth sex and forced to be comfortable there. Unless of course, the philosophy regarding morphological freedom changes.
>>5403923
> Society will, and does point to the people who arent transgender who pretend that they are, calls them freaks and calls to take more of their rights away.
You can thank the media for this. Either way it's why we have a court system, to prevent exactly the kind of mob tyranny you're talking about. Place the blame where blame is due and not on the people trying to push the bounds of human achievement.
> Is it any wonder 58% of americans say transgender people should use the bathroom of their birth sex
Says more about the stupidity of Americans than anything else.
>>5403931
I wonder if in 100 years, assuming huge advances in biotech, people like chrischan will be able to transition well near instantly.
>>5403948
Probably. We can already do pretty insane things, it's all just really expensive for the time being. Access and cost can change quickly, so who knows. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing furry/otherkin/lycanthrope transitions someday.
>>5403957
Idk that cost is really the limiting factor. For instance, in the case of breast implants the price range is about $4000-$20000. There's not some magical procedure costing $1million that is really good. In fact if you look at the people spending millions on surgery(talking facial here) they look horrible, whereas those spending in the sub-100k range tend to look great.
However, a reduction in cost from say the thousands of dollars it costs now to tens of dollars (say in the form of a cheap pill) would be great. But I think a large improvement in quality would be even better (say being able to get great looking M cups).
>>5403931
>"Should" is just you projecting your values onto it.
God forbid anything be regulated.
> As such, same tech, different field.
Except no. I see where youre going with it, but youre wrong. Things dont go from medicine to recreation or "cosmetics" very often at all. That is why a large number of medications are prescription only. Besides which, many over the counter medicines are limited by how many they can sell you, because of the other applications of the chemical.
You are calling for de-regulation in a regulated world. It wont work.
>You'll get better addiction treatments
Due to all the hundreds of thousands of new drug addicts, who are now addicted to a purer form of the drug, that they can get without perscription, or fear of a decade in jail.
> nonstandard brain states.
People who are literally fucked i the head. Im not sure if youre aware, but people on most drugs, cocaine, meth, amphetamines, etc arent well known for being balanced and stable people.
But I'd rather you found this out after you've opened the flood gates.
> the medical world will do it for me.
Riiiight. So being happy with the way things are, is somehow going to backfire when the medical community somehow takes a step backwards? Okay dude
>All it takes is for one researcher to figure out the neuroscience of self image and transition is done as a treatment for dysphoria
:O
You mean... a treatment for dysphoria that doesnt involve altering literally every aspect of you body, having to come out to family and friends, and risking getting the shit kicked out of you? Why that'd be terrible!
> You'll be dragged back to your birth sex and forced to be comfortable there
Kek-erino. Trans people choose to see medical professionals, nothing is forced on them. If you've already transitioned, they'll be obligated to support you due to irreversible changes, and the huge social impact it would have on you. GG
>blame where blame is due Non trans people claiming they are trans
>>5394714
Trans is actual mental illness.
No shit, you can't find any emotionally stable and socially well adjusted spokespeople.
>>5403989
JAMIE CLAYTON
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>>5403989
You could say the same about any group. Look at Catholics, look at muslims, look at people who worship the Jade Emperor, look at people who worship Krishna. Together those people from a supermajority of humans.
>>5394752
Because being a tranny marinading in self-hatred and disgust toward one's own body is difficult to deal with. Not to mention coming out to friends and family.
I would imagine all of that would take a toll on someone.
>>5403980
>Due to all the hundreds of thousands of new drug addicts, who are now addicted to a purer form of the drug, that they can get without perscription, or fear of a decade in jail.
But it would happen. And it wouldn't take long. With today's tech we could easily take the teeth off of lots of addictions. We just don't because of shitty punitive attitudes towards things we dislike personally. You give me $2b, access to MIT and 5 years and I'll make you a system that allows for perfect opioid highs - addiction free, disable-able at any time, and possibly even needle free.
>People who are literally fucked i the head. Im not sure if youre aware, but people on most drugs, cocaine, meth, amphetamines, etc arent well known for being balanced and stable people.
I've spent way more time in the drug world than you know. People handle their drugs better than you think. Once again, the media is responsible for proudly displaying the trainwrecks and ignoring anything good that happens.
> Why that'd be terrible!
There are 'legitimate' trans people out there (your definition btw) who would consider it pretty terrible. Don't taint their reputation now by making them look bad!
>>5404014
>You give me $2b, access to MIT and 5 years and I'll make you a system that allows for perfect opioid highs - addiction free, disable-able at any time, and possibly even needle free.
>>5404000
We're all just crazy monkeys anyways.
>>5404014
>here are 'legitimate' trans people out there (your definition btw) who would consider it pretty terrible
Find me the trans person, who would rather come out to family and friends, hope HRT can make them look the way they want, worry about passing every single day, worry about getting beaten up or refused a job, know that they can never be 100% biologically male or female, never have their own kids without the use of the genitals they were born with, not be accepted by a large part of society, or called a freak, struggle to find a partner who accepts them...Find me the trans person who would rather go through all of that, than take some medication to make the feelings stop, or attend therapy that can resolve those issues.
Go on, I'll be waiting.
>>5404032
See you'd probably define anyone who would say yes to that as not trans, no true scotsman, etc.
>>5397897
Still a man senpai
>>5404032
Lmao, not the person you responded to, but I was wondering if you were implying that it would ever be possible to 'cure' a transgender person with pills/therapy? I don't think you realize that being male/female is a strong aspect of who someone is and how they act. If you took that away from someone, you would end up with a vegetable. I probably just misunderstood the argument you two were having.
>>5404061
A big goal of feminists/SJWs is try to do away with gender altogether. That's why a lot of them are super androgynous. Short haired flat women. Trans girls who hate breast implants, etc.
>>5404061
Basing most of your personality on your "gender identidy" is much like those guys who based most of their personality on their bushy beards. It makes you annoying as fuck and a complete waste of oxygen.
>>5404079
They seem bretty insane to be honest. Gender is something engraved in people, well, it's engraved in me, at least. It's fine with me that they do the androgynous thing but there's no way I could do it. It would make me feel dysphoric as fuck. I'm a guy, I've gotta dress like one. I spose they can successfully blur the lines a bit, but I know they'll never be able to abolish gender altogether. Maybe gender roles or whatever, though.
I'm slightly confused by the whole thing. Do they believe that gender is a social construct? If so, why are mtf girls involved as well?
>>5403241
Goals.
>>5404132
I just know that I sit, think, and instinctually react like most other men. I'm not choosing to 'base' my personality on it. It's a part of me.
>>5404061
Dickweed, it was in response to someobe suggesting exactly that concept. They asked about a possible future where a neuroscientist ficgures out body image issues and offers a cure.
That was my response to that concept. Learn to read
>>5404146
Think of it like this. Most women earn their income off their looks (aka their husbands, male courters, etc.). Men give them these things for their looks.
Some women have adapted a reproductive strategy (one strategy, there are others employed by different women) to achieve these resources by being androgynous/unattractive or by encouraging other women to do so (so hot feminists would have an incentive to convince other hot feminists to be ugly so that they'd be the hottest around). The idea is that if everyone is ugly, and attractiveness is relative, then by pushing down the average attractiveness these women will be able to gain more resources.
Kind of an evo-psych explanation. But yea, basically they want to limit competition.
>>5404146
Bullshit-trannies make up a small percentage an most people do not adhere to one or the other. Just because something is true to you does not mean its true to society as a whole. Abolishing the idea that being a certain sex means having to act a certain gender would help a lot of people, i dunno why trannies are against this it would help them.
>>5404152
>All men think the same
Lol ok hon.
>>5404174
Someone sounds like a jealous tranny lol
This kind of shit has always bothered the more "normal" crowd of LGBT. Back in Stonewall the older generation wanted to prove that homosexuals weren't different from heterosexuals and they were ashamed of the people who were feminine and participated in the violent riots. Honestly sometimes I wish they got more authority.
>>5404183
I think there's a sort of general consensus for how most guys/girls act
>>5404192
If all men thought the same they would all have the same sexuality/tastes etc. They don't.
>>5404198
I said most, kek
>>5404201
You said you think and general, not most kek. Still wrong.
>>5404213
Do I need to repeat the post for you?
>>5404220
No dude, we know what you wrote, fucking chill yeah?
>>5404222
I'm fucking chill
>>5404227
Good.
>>5404244
I'm sorry you had an argument that didn't make any sense. That must've been very embarrassing for you when you realized.
>>5402287
>2.49 megaflips of Danny Devito
Reminder that our gay Moses would now be labeled as transphobic by LGBT community. He didn't really approve trans back then and if he saw the hon generation it lead to he probably wouldn't approve it now either.
>hours of a humanist arguing with a transhumanist
Where's the popcorn senpai
>>5404032
I volunteer as tribute, there is no joy in pills
>>5394714
Buckle up, buckaroo!
>>5395189
>Damn I love being stealth.
>stealth
You wish
MAXIMUM C O P I N G
>>5395464
pic or lying
>>5397897
STILL NOT PASSING HAHAHAH
>>5403339
i transitioned cus of agp and never been happier, remain upset that ur puretrans™ meme falls flat on its ass
>>5404032
Trans people online seem pretty divided on whether they'd be willing to seek treatment with such medication or not. Generally I think the better transition is going for them, the less interested they are in treating it with drugs or therapy. But it's really pointless speculation anyway, since we're nowhere near such a situation, it's hard for people to really answer truthfully about a hypothetical situation.
>>5403897
>medical professionals in the 90's refused to treat trans people and let them die. So. Yeah. Make of that what you will.
Transition treatment has existed for decades. I've never heard that it wasn't used at all in the 90s, maybe it wasn't as widespread but that doesn't mean it didn't exist. Presumably the doctors who refused to treat it were outright transphobic (like Paul McHugh today) in which case they were most definitely violating medical ethics, or more likely they just weren't aware of the treatment options at the time. In the latter case, it's not exactly violating medical ethics, since it's not like you're withholding a treatment known to be effective. But now that this information is widespread, we can't go back to leaving them untreated, because you can't use ignorance as an excuse this time, and choosing to withholding a treatment known to be effective simply because you're ideologically opposed to it is against medical ethics.
>>5408185
> mfw
>>5406943
I'm not the person you're replying to, but posting a pic when STEALTH is stupid. Publicly admitting to being trans is totally contrary to staying stealth. I'm stealth too, but I'd never associate my pic with trannies because I want to stay stealth. 4chan has a big enough reach that someone might see it, and it also never forgets. Once you associate your pic with being a tranny, your image is forever associated with being a tranny.
I have a friend whose picture is in that stupid 'real girl vs traps' picture that's posted on /b/ a lot. She has no chance of staying permanently stealth thanks to that.
>>5395147
rap career when???
>>5394752
I've never met another trans person.
Though there are meetups in my town.
Are transgrls like a gang or more like cis women where they stab each other in the back for lol funzies?
