So I'm a cis woman about to have a baby (in a cis white hetero marriage, sorry).
I wanted to ask trans people if you think it's best to raise a baby without gender to just use its biological sex as gender until it's old enough to choose or whatever?
Don't wanna make the baby a special snowflake or anything, but the emergence of so many trans people over the last few years makes me think there's actually a fairly high chance of any given child growing up trans.
Trans people are less than 1% of the population.
Your baby is OVERWHELMINGLY likely to grow up to be cis.
Raise them as the gender they're born as, just let them know trans people exist and that if they ever feel they are trans that's okay and they can talk to you about it. Being raised "gender neutral" is going to make them the specialist of goddamn snowflakes. And they'll also probably be bullied a bunch for no reason.
Also tell them gender roles are stupid. That's really got nothing to do with trans, but gender roles are seriously stupid.
>>5360354
>there's actually a fairly high chance of any given child growing up trans
No there isn't at all. Just assume your kid is whatever gender it's born as unless shown otherwise.
>>5360354
I think a hybrid approach is probably best. Like go ahead and use gendered pronouns and names and shit, because that just makes communication and stuff easier, but just don't push gender norms on them. If it's a boy and wants to wear a dress let him, if it's a girl and she wants to help dad fix the truck let her. If they start presenting themselves as the opposite gender then sit them down and talk to them about it and see if they want to start transitioning or not. Basically just be hands off until they give you a reason to be hands on
>>5360354
Fundamentalist feminists believe in this. Because intersex babies are assigned gender based on opinion of doctors and parents, all gender assignment must be a social construct divorced from variation in genitalia.
>>5360406
Third wave SJW feminism, you mean. I'm a radfem and we do not believe this at all. That line of thinking is a tranny thing. We think gender=sex.
>>5360418
>I'm a radfem
Do yourself a favor and accept that you're trans already.
>>5360418
I thought radfems want to abolish gender entirely (and only use sex)
>>5360418
Sorry. It's like fundie Catholics vs fundie Protestants to me. The details get confusing.
>>5360418
So confused by this response
>>5360418
>I'm a radfem
Stopped reading
>>5360354
Doesn't matter, as long as you aren't overbearing, make sure your child knows what the word transgender means before the end of elementary school, would have saved me a ton of shit to deal with
Educate your kids, tell them you love and support them no matter what and that they should never be afraid to talk to you about anything. The chances are they will turn out to be perfectly normal.
>>5363996
>Perfectly normal
Whatever the fuck that means...
But no shit, that is some solid shit
>>5360354
This gotta be bait
Either way just let your child be free imo
Refer to them as their assigned sex and all but don't impose gender roles, like "hur dur ur grill so u can only play with grills" or "hur dur ur boy so ya gotta be a player and badass"
Just let 'em free yanno
Be there for them
>>5360373
>Also tell them gender roles are stupid.
don't tell them this. Main reason trans people are trans is because they feel comfortable in the opposite sex's body (therefore wanting it) and are comfortable with the gender roles associated with it in your culture.
>>5364019
Even if a parent chooses not to reinforce roles, roles will eventually become reinforced among their peers and among other authoritative figures.
parents really have no control over socialization
unless you lock your kid in a dungeon and teach them all they need to know.
but eh, yanno
>>5360472
>Gender=sex
so society/culture=biology
oh radfem... if this backwards thought is truly what you fight for, I feel sorry for you.
just raise it like a normal kid you sjw retard
>>5360354
Mtf here
I don't think there are any more trans people than there were before. The ones who are just on the bandwagon aside, I think more of us are starting to feel comfortable being open. Things are still shitty but they're better than they were even like 20 years ago.
Just raise them normally. Build trust and teach them to respect people and their differences, whatever that means to you. Most likely your child won't be trans, but on the off chance they are hopefully you'll have built enough trust they know they can come to you about it.
I don't think you should necessarily go out of your way to do a gender neutral approach so much as being accepting if they want to play with a toy of "the opposite gender" or whatever. Stuff like that.
Good luck in parenthood btw
>>5360418
Please stop pretending to belong to Radical Feminism. Your offshoot of the ideology is in direct conflict with its mission statement, making you a poor successor.
>>5360354
If the kid has a dingaling, call it what it is, which is a male.
If the kid has a vagoo, call it what it is, a female.
However, be open minded and if you realize that your kid acts more feminine, despite being male, or more masculine, despite being a female, just let it happen.
Don't be afraid to talk about sex and gender and all that. Show the kid that you accept it for whatever it wants to be, and, when it is of legal age, and wants to transition into a different sex all together go to the doctor with your kid and start that hormonal process.
The best thing a parent can be, in the past, now, and the future, is to not make assumptions, or reject things, but just to love and accept their child, and protect the child until the child is of legal age to make any BIG changes, and never top supporting your kid. Coming from a abandoned me for my sexual beliefs, I can't tell you how much it would mean to just have had a parent who loved and accepted me, regardless. Don't let your kid go through the same shit, never be afraid to just listen.
>>5364070
radfems are just sjw feminisms that yell more and say "we're going to abolish gender by abolishing it"
"how"
"/abolishing it/"
honestly
they're literal keks
>>5360354
>in a cis white hetero marriage, sorry
i fucking hate you so much
why would you be sorry for being in a heterosexual marriage to another person of the same race?
don't be a self hating faggot just because you aren't a 1 legged 1 armed black trans penguin
>>5360354
Just cut off her penis when it goes for the circumcision.
>>5364022
this
>>5364167
well I'm sure as fuck not going to mutilate my child's genitalia either way
>2015
>still circumcising boys
wtf
>>5360354
People like you shouldn't be allowed to bear children. You're sadistic and would make a shitty mother.
Just don't threaten them any time they do something that doesn't fit their gender role. I don't even remember much about my childhood but I do remember my parents constantly calling me a failure, threatening to beat me if I didn't do what they thought I should be doing and all that stuff. Of course, at the end of the day, even if my parents were supportive, the community wouldn't have been and I still would've been bullied at school and everything so maybe it doesn't matter.
But my parents weren't supportive of me and I haven't seen them in years, and I've never regretted it. So I guess just be there for your kid if you want them to be there for you but that applies whether they are trans or not.
Just raise them normally, if they're trans you'll notice probably. Just let them know as they get older that you don't care if they're trans or gay or whatever, because the uncertainty of coming out is quite possibly the worst part. (Coming from an mtf btw)
>>5360354
I think it's a bit excessive to raise your kid as agender or whatever, it might be possible someday if gender roles are abolished, but gender is such a big deal today that it's not really practical. Instead you should just raise them as their biological sex in terms of names and pronouns and whatever, unless they tell you otherwise, don't try to force them into either a standard or atypical gender role, and be accepting and supportive whether they turn out to be trans or not.
>>5364025
But you can teach them that they don't have to follow them. Just be supportive, you know what I mean? It's your child, not a toy or a robot or a custom MMO character for you to control and customize.
"Mom, those kids made fun of me 'cause I played with barbies"
Reinforcing gender roles would be "then you need to stop playing with them because they're for girls, they're right, never do that again", but supporting your child fully, instead, would be "you don't need to listen to them if you don't want to, what matters is that you have fun and don't hurt anyone else. But if they really hurt you or hit you, you can always tell me, and I will help you" kinda thing
I 'unno
>>5364286
>you don't need to listen to them if you don't want to, what matters is that you have fun and don't hurt anyone else.
>just be yourself
sure, that's a nice thing to say but if the kid has problems connecting with their peers and is socially ostracized this really doesn't help. kids are usually happier with friends than without. so saying something along the lines "you don't have to be ashamed about it but you shouldn't let your friends know about everything you do if they aren't close friends." could be actually helpful.
>>5360354
You're probably going to fuck up your baby if you do this. Honestly, don't subject your child to any of this confusing shit early on. Human brains aren't developed in the capacity to handle such knowledge until around the age of puberty, at which point you're more likely to know where their sexual preferences are.
If he (assuming boy) ask to wear a dress, let them wear a dress. If they ask why boys don't wear dresses, keep the explanation simple. "Most boys don't like to wear dresses." The key to early child development and engaging difficult world concepts is to keep the explanation short, concise, and simple.
>>5364325
Define "friends".
That's the thing. I'm not telling kids should lock emselves out, fuck no, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but what's the label "friends" worth if they bully the kid?
Like for example, a group of bullies constantly forcing kids to do shit, "carry my bag, give me money, because we're FRIENDS!", those are not friends to me, you know what I mean?
Kids are happy with friends, not "friends".
Sorry I don't make a lotta sense, and I mean, shit, what do I know, I'm not a parent, right?
>>5364263
I'm sadistic for thinking through how to raise my children?
>>5364451
>Define "friends".
well "friends" is a broad term. there is a friend you'll meet occasionally have a lot of fun with but wouldn't trust anything personal. there is a friend you meet rarely but you could tell them everything about yourself and the other way around.
like there's close friends and people you consider more than acqaintances but less than close friends.
>Sorry I don't make a lotta sense, and I mean, shit, what do I know, I'm not a parent, right?
i think i get what you mean? neither am i desu. this may come off as ignorant but i don't think being a parent makes you necessarily an expert on the subject. there's too many shitty parents in the world to believe that.
>>5364149
I agree. You shouldn't be apologizing for who you are. If you are hetero go for it. If you're homo, go for it. You should never apologize just to cater to others. >>5360354
On that note, just let them be who they want to be. Reinforce positive attitudes and morals, they rest is just up to them. Be a strong role model and teach them tolerance, love and respect
Just raise it like normal. You can usually tell right away if there are any warning signs and sometimes it really is just a phase. Don't confuse your child. I can't speak for transgender people but as a child I was a huge tomboy who played with my brother's trucks and cars and video games while he was jealous of my ez-bake oven and even wore my dresses sometimes for fun. He has a wife now and 2 kids and is 100% cis and very stereo typically heterosexual. I'm bisexual but I mainly date woman and am much less of a tomboy than I was as a kid. I can't even imagine how life would be different if we had liberal parents of today because we would have probably gone along if they asked us if we we're transgendered. I would've have said yes 100% because I wasn't getting along with any of the other girls in my classes (was actually getting bullied) and always hung out with the boys more.
>>5364741
>I would've have said yes 100% because I wasn't getting along with any of the other girls in my classes (was actually getting bullied) and always hung out with the boys more.
that's what therapy is for. about a year long. you don't think a psychiatrist would have been able to figure that out?
don't reinforce that misinformed meme that kids are put on HRT at 9 years because of some signs.
Seriously, the chances of them being transgender is so low, that you'll be more likely to fuck them up by raising them in a gender neutral household than not. By the time they're ready for school or a year after they start school, they can usually tell you themselves if you're fucking up.
>>5360418
raise the baby as the gender its born as but just dont confine it to crazy gender roles. there is a difference
>>5364766
I had short hair as a child because I hated looking like a girl and cut all my hair off at one point, I hated girl toys, I hated the color pink, I wanted a penis like my brother because I was super jealous he could pee standing up, and I wanted to be like my Dad when I grew up. In my teenage years I had all the typical angst against breasts and periods and I still never hung out with girls. I'm pretty sure I would've been put on blockers and if I had been given a choice then I would probably be ftm today. Not saying all cases will end up like me or I'm a good representative but there cases like me that DO exist and that OP shouldn't worry too much.
>>5360379
This is good advice.
>>5364877
Well, there is no reason any reasonable woman wouldn't want to upgrade their status to being a man.
unless you're isolating them from society, treating them as totally genderless will just make them targets for bullying. give them a gender neutral name, give them choices in how they express themselves (unless their choices are potentially dangerous (e.g. a boy in a dress in public) or just bad for gender-unrelated reasons), and teach them early on that if they're trans that's okay with you, but still call them girls/boys and use she/he pronouns unless they start telling you otherwise.
>>5364939
>upgrade
>>5364877
>I'm pretty sure I would've been put on blockers
no problems with that. i think giving a kid the choice after all the signs you showed after a year of therapy to give you the chance to figure yourself out isn't a bad thing.
>if I had been given a choice then I would probably be ftm today.
well this doesn't tell me anything. i don't know your current situation and there is no way to find out. you may have turned out to be cis and happy and everything is perfect but you might as well be one of those people that say "i always wished to be the opposite gender and i hate my body more than anything but i'm not trans.".
>but there cases like me that DO exist
that's basically my point. i don't know your case. chances are your social environment doesn't know your case and even you may not know your case. i'm not saying you're trans just that you're anecdotal evidence isn't conclusive.
>>5360354
this >>5360373
this >>5360379
I say this as a MtF transgender.
Best guess, without great statistics, is there are around .3% of the live births are transgender to some degree, 1:300. Less than 1/4th of us need to fully transition, 1:1200. So, be open to it being a possibility, but don't force it. If one or more of the kids you have turns out to prefer to be the opposite gender, support them at a young age so they have the best chance to live a happy fulfilling life. Don't joke about it. My parents are very supporting and even had transsexual friends when I was young, but they joked about it when I was young and questioning so I suppressed and didn't tell them, and thus didn't get the help and support I really needed around 40 years ago. Yeah, I got great grades in school, college, etc., but my life in general has been a disaster. The short I got to just be myself I soared, and impressed all those around me, but without my parents to back me, I had to wait to transition.
>>5364962
ugh. honestly not trying to having to have children shouldn't have transgender treatment argument. i'm just saying sometimes the kids will end up just fine even without it and fine even if they do get on it by 'accident' when they would've just fine without it. i'm all for it, i'm just saying it's not the end of the world sometimes and that OP shouldn't worry too much and confuse their child.
just make sure you listen to your kid. if they tell you they want their hair short/long for their gender then dont force them to cut it/keep it long. if they refuse to wear dresses (as a girl) or start asking why girls get to wear prettier clothes than boys then let them dress however they're more comfortable
>>5360354
Just don't force your kid to be what people believe is girly or boyish. Not even trans, I just get really annoyed by how my family raises their kids, forcing the girls to wear everything pink so now they think their favorite color is pink and it gives their parents a headache now because they will not stop wanting everything that's pink they see as being "for girls". Also, give your boy dolls. I'm working on teaching my 1 yo nephew to hug his stuffed animals since everything else he has is a car. Cars don't teach boys to nurture and love things. So now he knows to treat certain things gently and to hug his family close.
>>5364940
telling a "male" child not to wear a dress in public isnt looking out for their safety. as children its very unlikely they'll be "clocked" and even if they are so what? the only issue anyone will have will be with the parent. But, if you tell your kid not to wear a dress in public, youre teaching them that its something to be ashamed about regardless of how you express your personal opinion about it
>>5365067
>ugh. honestly not trying to having to have children shouldn't have transgender treatment argument.
Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?
>>5365142
it depends on what sort of public. if it's only around strangers, sure, but there are plenty of public spaces with people who will already know what the child's gender is (or is supposed to be if the child is trans) and may react very negatively. would you really not warn your son when he wants to wear his dress to kindergarten?
letting your child be a target for bullying or abuse is extremely irresponsible as a parent. if we lived in a more tolerant world, it would be best to let children express themselves as they pleased, but we don't and thus have to look out for their safety.
>>5360354
"Gendering" children isn't a problem as long as you don't force them into strict gender roles, most people aren't 100% masculine or feminine. And no, statistically speaking the chance of your child being trans is overwhelmingly low.
>>5364948
>shitty meme game
1 out of every 10 million people is trans. You'd be wasting your time. If you want to avoid being shitty, just take it seriously if the child acts like a huge faglord
>>5372752
Your number is a bit off even by the most conservative estimates.
>>5360354
benis -> man
vagoo -> womyn
not that hard desu
>>5372865
If I recall the conservative estimate was about 1:3000.
>>5364022
the main reason people are trans is cuz of dysphoria... it had nothing to do with comfort in gender roles or anything that you're talking about...
>>5374607
Cause and effect are reversed...
transgender issues cause gender dysphoria. Not the other way around.
>>5372839
benis --> rapist
vagoo --> womyn
fixed for accuracy
