>Inb4 >>>/pol/ >>>/trash
Prologue: Each board covers one subject. Subjects can overlap. There is room for discussion on any of the boards under which such an overlap exists. If you feel this thread it not appropriate for this board, report it and move on. If it doesn't interest you, don't reply or sage and move on. This thread got a lot of people sizzling mad the last time it was made by another anon, and it's more interesting than:
>I um, think I'm trans, but maybe not, but maybe y'know I like wearing pink panties, should I go on HRT and cut my testicles off? I'm 14 btw.
Here goes:
>does anyone else on this board find it a hard pill to gulp down to support the "Right Wing" party?
>did anyone alienate their LGBT friends with their political persuasion?
>Taking LGBT issues out of the equation, why do you support the party you support?
>What typical "pro LGBT ra ra rally the troops" issues are you on the other side of?
Kind of an embarrassing time to be a Republican, with or without LGBT stuff.
>does anyone else on this board find it a hard pill to gulp down to support the "Right Wing" party?
In my case it's the Republican party, which doesn't look as fondly on the economic, social, legal and political advances LGBT people have made in recent decades?
>did anyone alienate their LGBT friends with their political persuasion?
My boyfriend's friend happens to be a lesbian- and one of the coolest women I've ever met. We can shoot the shit about people we think should be catapulted at brick walls, dead baby jokes, cards against humanity, horror movies, gnarly street fights, that sort of thing.
When I dropped in that I was a conservative, she looked puzzled and thought me joking, I explained love for gun rights, strong borders, strict immigration laws, a strong military, low regulations, low taxes, state's rights, a decreased welfare state, and the autonomy of property owners to do with their property how they please, when they please, so long as it doesn't hurt others. She cried- literally in angry tears, about how " 'we' fought for all these 'rights' and now I want to take it 'backwards' and does not talk to me. I didn't even go full autismo either- we were having a calm and sensible conversation that i thought would be resolved with a round of beer.
>Taking LGBT issues out of the equation, why do you support the party you support?
I'm more libertarian, but voting Republican seems the best way to ensure that Sanders nor Clinton will get into the white house. Other people despise the Democrats, but value LGBT issues more than they hate them.
>What typical "pro LGBT ra ra rally the troops" issues are you on the other side of?
While I agree with gay marriage in practice and theory, I disagree with how SCOTUS went about it. Living in a federated democratic republic with a constitutional basis is more important than me getting married in Texas. The 9th and 10th amendments traditionally let states keep some level of autonomy
>>5345981
>Trump
Brought the border back into popularity
>Paul
Keeps the constitutionalist credo
>Cruz
Generally has always worked against the expansion of government
>Bush
Not any worse than his brother
>Rubio
Not any worse than bush
I wish there was a bit more military experience on in the presidential candidate pool this cycle, but for all their faults, gaffes and insane moments, former CEO, real estate magnate, optician cartel dismantler, neurosurgeon, former governor, and former US attorney seem to outclass the other side just a bit.
>>5345974
I like right-wingers because left-wingers are nearly universally unattractive, feminized losers.
>>5345974
>does anyone else on this board find it a hard pill to gulp down to support the "Right Wing" party?
It was at first, then I realized that Obama and Hillary are both liars who will say whatever they think will earn them the most votes. Both were anti-LGBT before their convenient flip-flops.
>did anyone alienate their LGBT friends with their political persuasion?
Yup, and I don't care - I don't like being friends with overly emotional, judgmental people. My left-wing friends are all huge losers anyway - 30 year olds with kids they had no business having, entry-level jobs, little to no education, drug-addicts and alcoholics... the list goes on. Very unhappy people and their politics reflect that.
>Taking LGBT issues out of the equation, why do you support the party you support?
I'm anti-immigration, pro-gun, and pro-capitalism.
>What typical "pro LGBT ra ra rally the troops" issues are you on the other side of?
I loathe all identity politics. Probably the one thing that really bothers me on every level is hate crime legislation.
>>5346036
I really don't like breaking it down in these terms, because there are loser liberals and loser conservatives- but you might have a point. Mainstream libs typically fall into hard hat union democrats, hardtimes democrats (ghettos, appalachia) and university liberals. (Anecdote/speculation ahead)
I can have disagreements with how certain unions conduct themselves, and can see why people on welfare would vote left, but among the last group we see the true madness. Borders are just lines in the sand. Let all the immigrants in. Amnesty for all. Force business owners to cater to everyone. 90% tax. Typically these people are more "artsy" "open" "imaginative" or "creative",dye their hair, change their major 3 times from liberal arts, to sociology, to history, to women's studies, budget poorly, waste their trust fund money in expensive LA and NYC apartments, and go heavily into debt, are overly trusting, lending money they don't have to people they barely know, overpaying for car repairs, their bodies undisciplined and slowly degrading, can barely pick up a 50 lb box, rarely settling in a long term monagamous relationship.
(Don't quote me on this)IIRC, conservatives have a more responsive "fear" signal neurologically, which leads to them keeping smaller but closer well-defended groups, seeking 1:1LTRs, following the norm rather than being the nail that sticks up, keeping more realistic short term goals than lofty long shots, and keeping somewhat more fit to please others and be able to defend one's self, or from taking a night shift warehouse position entailing some manual labor-rather than partying. There's a bit of a logic to how liberal and conservative minds operate. My boyfriend and I are average/somewhat-fit guys, but compared to community college Critical Gender Theory students, it's no contest physically. Our conservative friends has varied hobbies- gaming, comics, hunting, shooting, hiking, fishing,lifting, MMA- but our liberal circle just parties.
>>5346060
>Yup, and I don't care
Story?
I don't want to frame it as LeftBadRightGood- there are plenty of cool liberals out there- but this trend seems ubiquitous. Liberals tend to save less early on, get careers later, have careers earlier, have more partners, and forsake delayed gratification so they can party in college and be cat ladies a decade later.
>Probably the one thing that really bothers me on every level is hate crime legislation.
This. It's illegal to hit someone in the jaw for no reason, but now it's somehow 'extra super duper' illegal to hit someone in the jaw for no reason yelling 'faggot'. Extra punitive measures against the assailant just because. What's the point of having uniformity in law when the the assailant's mens rea was the same, and the action was the same, it's just that the category that slightly shifted?
Here's some others.
>No state may bar gay marriage
Allows the Uncle Scum to snoop on any whiff of an infraction a state or locality is making in this regard, and pack its shit in, centralizing federal jurisdiction and power.
>Banning males who had sex with males since 1977 from blood marrow and organ donation
I was highly offended when going to donate blood for the first time, to find out that this was true, but being that 2% of the population account for a disproportionate amount of HIV cases, it seems logistically and financially sound to exclude this pool of donors.
>Unisex bathrooms in school! Any child should use any bathroom!
Now I'm not against trans advocates. I'm not against the idea that gender may be more fluid than previously thought. I can even accept the possibly that a small amount of people can express their gender identity and orientation in a substantial way even at a young age. But to confuse the 1400 kids of an elementary school, open up the school to massively expensive liability, and rework all those bathrooms so a fraction of a fraction of the population doesn't get their feelings hurt seems stupid.
>>5345974
Most Republican candidates are against encryption, against immigration reform and against education reform. They claim to be pro-business but Kansas basically disproves that. Some of them seem almost hostile to the tech industry. The Michelle Bachmann / Ann Coulter style antigay rhetoric doesn't really help much.
As an independent I find the whole log-cabin snobbish attitude just as grating and off-putting as the SJW party line. Though I guess they deserve credit for taking a stand when even their own party constantly throws them under the bus at every waking opportunity.
>>5346173
>Story?
Not much different from yours. Make the mistake of bringing up politics that are different from your friends in a respectful, rational manner and somehow it turns into you being a bigot, self-hating gay, etc.
>blood donation
This doesn't bother me at all honestly. Knowing the lifestyle that so many gays CHOOSE to live they really don't have any business complaining that medical personnel would be concerned about blood-borne pathogens. It is a fact that MSM have extremely high occurrence of nearly every STD.
>>5346213
I'm a gay man and I love Ann Coulter. Michelle Bachmann strikes me as stupid, but I certainly support her right to be stupid.
Been waiting for a thread like this.
I'm a lesbian and right-wing, like really, really, right-wing, like /pol/ right-wing (except I am pro-Israel, so there's that), but I agree with /pol/ on pretty much everything else. Maybe I'm nuts, maybe I'm just an extremist, I don't know.
It's isolated me from most of my recently-acquired friends. My old friends, especially my similarly-reclusive male friends who like to joke with me about dindus and stuff, have stuck with me through all my "race war when"-type discussions, lol.
Regardless of politics, I'm still pro-LGBT. Can't quite seem to grasp transgender-stuff but I still do my best to be tolerant and defend the trans community from transphobia because I recognize that it's not easy for them.
>>5346255
Was Mussolini right?
I have identified as classical liberal often agreeing with libertarians in principle if not practice. That makes me worse than Hitler of course. I agree with most of what OP-san is saying. Additionally, SJW's trigger me.
>>5346213
>against encryption
This is a major problem in my book- the want to expand the jurisdiction of FISA, data collection programs, and the National Security State
while diminishing encryption abilities, right to privacy, and 4th amendment protections of online effects and personal files,
all the while using "IP protection" as a pretense for going after content unsavory to them.
Here's the rub:
Obama, Biden and Clinton were democrats who supported the expansion of FISA, data collection, and the national security apparatus.
They were part of the current administration, which mad serious advances on right to privacy (PRISM et al) and seizures (Silk Road, Associated Press). They also rammed through TTIP, which strengthened the very IP policy Orrin Hatch and Lindsay Graham have wet dreams over. At the very least the GOP has the popular Rand/Cruz bloc supporting a curtailment of this stuff.
> against immigration reform
I agree that the GOP needs to realize that the illegal immigrants within the country will never come out of the shadows the way they are going, but the Dems need to realize that some deportations will have to be made, employers punished, and social services to IIs cut. The problem is the last time Reagan made a compromise with Tip O'Neill over amnesty, the Democrats didnt hold up their end of the bargain.
>Education reform
The high stakes testing of the Bush GOP was kept by Obama, but now amped up, with a changed curriculum, and bait-and-switched on the states as Common Core. Education needs to be taken ahead, but in a way neither party is offering to do.
>Tech
True, but politicians in general seem to be behind in tech policy
> find the whole log-cabin snobbish attitude just as grating and off-putting as the SJW
I can see where you're coming from. DESU I've been more of a Right Libertarian (Ron Paul) that's been shifting toward Right Authoritarian (Le Pen, Farage, Netenyahu, Wilders)
I like my guns too much to vote Democrat.
Hillary is the slimiest thing to ever come out of DC.
Sanders is a commie.
So I stand with Rand. While I enjoy watching Trump and people reacting to Trump.
>>5346225
> somehow it turns into you being a bigot, self hating gay
Is it strange that I get less hate for coming out to religious people as gay than SJWs as right wing?
>>5346251
Bachmann comes off as pants on head when it comes to social issues, but seeing her debate security issues and the intel agencies on C-Span (agree or disagree), one can see she's not exactly a moron. Mostly just appealing to the Christian base.
>>5346255
I'm actually willing to hear from people from other points of view- never intending this to be a hugbox- but I see a pattern. Btw when did various identity groups become inexorably linked? Milo for example doesn't seem to have a problem with gays in the military, gay marriage, gay adoptions etc, but thinks hate speech laws are shit and linguistically and culturally homogeneous cultures perform better than diverse ones. He gets hated on.
>>5346315
I feel you. If it was between Jeb Bush and Jim Webb, I'd vote for Webb. If Joe Biden was running, wasn't one of the architects of the US Balkan intervention, and wasn't such a fudd on guns, I'd vote for him over Santorum and Bush.
This thread seems chill, but hopefully anons from other POVs can come in and spice it up. Like >>5317057
>>5346350
>Is it strange that I get less hate for coming out to religious people as gay than SJWs as right wing?
Not even a little. SJWs are the most intolerant, authoritarian people on the planet. No Christian has ever tried to make my life difficult. Plenty of SJWs have gone out of their way to annoy and/or harass me.
It's one thing to have political stances that are considered right-wing, but supporting the modern GOP is just going full retard. Fucking mess of a party that is actively working against your best interests.
At least be libertarian/independent, your mind deserves that little bit of consistency.
>>5346447
So glad an enlightened individual such as yourself has finally arrived to tell us all the correct way to think!
>>5346362
Don't get me wrong, Christians (I came out to about 12, some friends, some plain acquaintances, some strangers, most of them moderate) can be annoying af. But at a point when they wake up and say to themselves
>It's yet another day to make anon repen-
they just look at the billions of other non-Christians, realize the futility, and say
>-eh, I'm sure he'll come around to Jesus eventually. Let's just watch the game with no spergouts.
When I go on yik yak to scout out religious people and leftists though, the religious people go out of their way to be nice ("hate the sin not the sinner, even sinners can be saved, belief in christ is all that is required") even if for propaganda purposes, but those on the Left tend to lose their shit ("how dare you oppose XYZ, self-hating" etc.)
>>5346447
Sorry, but on a practical basis no-can-do. The Libertarians seem to be bought out by open border and amnesty advocates, and Republicans seem to have a good shot at driving back Clinton or Sanders this cycle- or else we might very well go blue without going back thanks to recent demographic shifts. In my state Democrats (rather, the vacuum left by weakened Republicans) led to the inability to ask if a person was a felon on a job interview, and increased incentives for single motherhood via public pre school.
Besides, being gay is only a fraction of my identity. I am also a partner in a SBOperation (which explains my being up this late on a Saturday night reviewing invoices), a student (whose tuition is artificially raised thanks to the increased volume of students/demand going for a limited set of classes/supply thanks in turn to Sallie Mae), a partial homeowner, and have family on retirement plans and with brokers that would be subject to Sanders' trading tax.
Of the 10 or so hats I wear, Republicans shit in 2 of them while Democrats shit in 8 of them (that analogy needs to be worked on).
>>5346451
Hey there's no harm, no foul here it's all chill.
American politics are a joke, geez get a proper system
>>5346350
SJW progressivism is a new cult to fill the void left by Christianity.
Feminists are by far the most religious people in the west (outside of muslims living in the west, of course)
Reminder that Hillary is a rotten lying shill, who has been bought out by Wall Street and various multinational corporations, and will say anything to get elected. Now that the supreme court has made gay marriage mandatory for all states nation wide you have no LGBT grounds to support her on and dozens of reasons not to vote her into office.
>>5346001
>Trump
>Brought the border back into popularity
>Openly expresses that Islam isn't perfect
>Supports an amendment that would protect LGBT from getting fired or being denied service
FTFY
>>5345974
Let's see.
http://www.logcabin.org/pressrelease/log-cabin-republicans-statement-on-exclusion-from-cpac/
“The American Conservative Union has the right to invite or not invite whoever they want to the Conservative Political Action Conference, but they should be honest about the reasons why. The ACU is fond of hiding behind a fig leaf stating gay people are welcome as guests, but the ability to buy a ticket to CPAC was never what our debate was about; indeed, I will be attending CPAC, as will hundreds of other Log Cabin Republicans members and supporters. Make no mistake: LCR is actively being prohibited from sponsoring CPAC. For our organization, this has always been about contributing to CPAC as sponsors or in some recognized capacity. Time and again, when we showed the ACU that we met their criteria for sponsorship, the reasons for our exclusion changed. The only conclusion that can be made is that the organizers of CPAC do not feel gay people can be conservative—a position opposed by the thousands of Millennial CPAC attendees who have been asking Log Cabin Republicans for months if we would be participating at this year’s event. We owed it to them to explain why we are not.”
Nope. Fuck the Republican party.
>inb4 commie liberul obamatard
False dichotomy.
>>5345974
Republicans and democrats are both pretty worthless but the republicans are less bad. I am a "right" libertarian, as in free market economics and "socially liberal" views. I put the latter in quotes because to liberals it means "Gib free condoms/whatever I want". I never felt too alienated by my right friends, because most of them are moire socially liberals. My lgbt friends on the other hand have alienated the shit out of me. Can't go to a GSA without liberal retardation every 5 seconds and offending fucking everyone.
>>5347774
>>Supports an amendment that would protect LGBT from getting fired or being denied service
[citation needed]
>be poorfag nerd
>vote for republicans for ideological reasons
Joke of the year, oh wait that's 50% of voters
As non-American I hope Americans vote for the wall so they can't get out and then start shooting each other like they always do and then the rest of the world doesn't have to deal with the worst country and its people anymore
>>5348295
Careful what you wish for Pedro, if Trump gets elected all the aid we send to foreign countries is going to stop or come with multiple strings attached.
I personally cannot wait.
>>5346173
>Banning males who had sex with males since 1977 from blood marrow and organ donation
Oh yes please this 100%.
I'd totally support banning gays from donating anything. Heck, I'd enforce it myself if I could.
>libkeks think shaming conservative gays is going to do anything
typical weak betas, such low energy individuals desu senpai.
>>5348339
>accuses liberals are shaming conservative gays
>calls liberals low energy betas
>literally too retarded to realize how hypocritical that is
>>5345974
>>does anyone else on this board find it a hard pill to gulp down to support the "Right Wing" party?
Not really. Tbh, I'd find it a harder pill to support the "Left Wing" party.
>>did anyone alienate their LGBT friends with their political persuasion?
Yeah, but I don't let it bother me. Who cares about the opinions of single-issue voters?
>>Taking LGBT issues out of the equation, why do you support the party you support?
College actually made me much more conservative, believe it or not. Majoring in Classics was probably what did it, as populism was one of the major reasons the Roman Republic fell. Essentially, I came to the conclusion that "don't rock the boat" i.e. conservatism is the better approach to politics, at least in the sense that it's more stable long term.
>>What typical "pro LGBT ra ra rally the troops" issues are you on the other side of?
Literally anything stemming from identity politics. Arguably a worse threat to American stability than 9/11. And the only reason I support gay marriage now is that it's already been legalized and de-legalizing it would introduce more problems than it would solve.
>>5348368
Typical liberal tactics - it's ok for them to call you names and insult your intelligence, but when you do it right back at them they squeal.
>>5348368
I never said libc-ucks can't TRY to shame, just saying it doesn't work, but I can clearly see it's rustled your feathers when we do it.
>>5348196
https://books.google.com/books?id=smMEAAAAMBAJ&q=%22Donald+Trump%22+AND+%22gay+rights%22&pg=PA27&dq=%22Donald+Trump%22+AND+%22gay+rights%22&hl=en&ei=-RWWTeCDEuLeiAKun8WdCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result#v=snippet&q=%22Donald%20Trump%22&f=false
>>5348376
I literally never said it's okay for liberals to shame people. Nice projection though.
>>5348461
Nope, calling people weak betas just shows how insecure you are.
>>5348510
Does it say anything about discrimination based on gender identity? After all, trans people are far more discriminated against than gay people.
>>5348530
>Nope, calling people weak betas just shows how insecure you are.
Alrighty "freud", enjoy your armchair.
>>5348539
The main motivation for bullying (which calling people insults is a form of) is as a way of compensating for a perception of inadequacy. If you actually had some legitimate criticisms of liberals, you would actually state specifics, rather than tossing them into this poorly defined, arbitrarily, allegedly inferior "other" group.
>>5345974
>>does anyone else on this board find it a hard pill to gulp down to support the "Right Wing" party?
not really, I've always been a pretty racist person because I grew up in a majority black/left-wing city
>>did anyone alienate their LGBT friends with their political persuasion?
not really, I'm mostly friends with skinhead working class guys who don't give a shit what I fap to
>>Taking LGBT issues out of the equation, why do you support the party you support?
individual rights and the ability for hard work and talent to contribute to financial success for you and your family
>>What typical "pro LGBT ra ra rally the troops" issues are you on the other side of?
none, most people nowadays don't give a shit what you jack off to. just don't do shit like pissing on each other's faces in the street like at folsom fair and you'd be fine
>>5346213
>education reform
yes, because federally centralized education has worked so well!
t. Common Core
>>5348535
>Does it say anything about discrimination based on gender identity?
No but when normies talk about one letter of LGBT they tend to mean all of them. They rarely acknowledge us as something separate so it's safe to assume he's talking about trans too.
>After all, trans people are far more discriminated against than gay people.
I wouldn't doubt it because transitioning trans are easier to spot than a homosexual but [citation needed]
>>5348635
>No but when normies talk about one letter of LGBT they tend to mean all of them. They rarely acknowledge us as something separate so it's safe to assume he's talking about trans too.
Well, if the actual text of the law doesn't say gender identity it wouldn't protect trans people.
>>5348555
Scroll back up through this thread and read. There is a laundry list of things wrong with leftist (liberal) politics in the US.
>Am I the only one that hates the fact that "liberal" means 2 completely different things in the Americas and in Europe?
>>5345974
Here goes:
>does anyone else on this board find it a hard pill to gulp down to support the "Right Wing" party?
no, i don't really support the republican party but i do support right wingers that for some reason remain there, and the rest outside it
>did anyone alienate their LGBT friends with their political persuasion?
i'm fortunate enough to have homosexual friends who share 99% of my political beliefs, its actually a few of my old hippie liberal straight friends from high school that are alienated by it
>Taking LGBT issues out of the equation, why do you support the party you support?
guns basically, the republican party is unconservative on most other things but if you can't defend yourself its hard to make a case that your rights can be respected
>What typical "pro LGBT ra ra rally the troops" issues are you on the other side of?
gay marriage as it exists shouldn't any more than straight marriage should
transgenderism is a mental disorder that should not be encouraged
people should be able to discriminate on the basis of sexuality
gay pride doesn't help the cause
>>5348711
it really doesn't know
in most countries of the world liberal means milquetoast center leftist
now thats not true in Australia, Germany, Scandinavia and a few other countries where it still has the connotation of classical liberalism, but only people fairly uneducated in foreign politics say shit like that
I don't understand why a fag would register as a Republican and actually be proud to proclaim that they are a Republican party.
The Republican Party is a fucking joke. Today conservative means neocon trotskyite religious fascist.
I don't understand why any secular pro-free market conservative would actually go out and vote. The presidency has very little impact over our lives so why even bother. Regardless of the election, we will be sending ground troops to Syria, we will continue to operate within crony capitalism and our taxes and the debt will go up. (and ur guns will be taken away).
instead all of you should be prepping for the happening and stockpiling guns.
>>5348985
i guess ill also answer these qs
>does anyone else on this board find it a hard pill to gulp down to support the "Right Wing" party?
If you're one of those straight down the ballot losers who will vote for a person just cause of the party that's pretty pathetic. I find that the only rational way to vote is to not think of the common good but my own self-interest. So I'll vote for whichever candidate has ideas the benefit me and me only regardless of party.
>did anyone alienate their LGBT friends with their political persuasion?
Don't have LGBT friends IRL.
I've been blocked on grindr because I told someone I supported Ted Cruz shutting down the gov't to defund PP.
>Taking LGBT issues out of the equation, why do you support the party you support?
I'm an Independent. I don't support either party and I think LGBT rights are bullshit. I think non-discrimination laws(VRA, ERA, Civil Rights Acts) should be repealed.
>What typical "pro LGBT ra ra rally the troops" issues are you on the other side of?
None really.
>>5348654
he also said it in 2000, when no one knew anything about trannies
>>5348985
>The Republican Party is a fucking joke.
Basically. Doesn't matter if you are LGBT or not, if you are Republican in 2015 AD you need to have your fucking head checked.
>actively working to discriminate against you
>corporate shills for the oligarch (muh fredum marketz)
>gun nutz
>Christian version of ISIS
>anti-SJW
>opposes any government outside of fascism
Even if you were in favor of small gubmit (as retarded as that is) GOP are not for small submit. A Muslim data base, border wall, and more illegal wars overseas are not small gubmit.
>>5349039
>'ve been blocked on grindr because I told someone I supported Ted Cruz shutting down the gov't to defund PP.
So you are a religious theocrat as well a queer? Sure are contradicting yourself here.
>I think non-discrimination laws(VRA, ERA, Civil Rights Acts) should be repealed.
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. This is akin to like saying "yes pls shoot me and beat me up."
>>5348768
>transgenderism is a mental disorder that should not be encouraged
Hostility and hate for transsexuals is based off nothing more than religious nonsense. There is no reason to hate people who were born in another gender. No are no better than ISIS.
>>5346541
>SJW progressivism is a new cult to fill the void left by Christianity.
America is still one of the most batshit insane religious countries on the planet. I'm not sure what universe you are living in, but American Christians are basically the ISIS version of Christians.
Progressive here. If any of you guys want to debate me, just comment and I'll be around to reply.
>>5348768
>demanding the state intervene in bodily autonomy, individualism and medicine because it offends you
And now you've discarded sane classical liberalism based conservatism and jumped straight into the same mentality ISIS and the North Koreans have.
It's cool to demand the state intervene against the private lives of others because your desires are more important than negative rights.
>>5349083
>implying that not supporting abortion means ur a christian
>That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. This is akin to like saying "yes pls shoot me and beat me up."
>implying that non-discrimination laws actually prevent racism and don't just mask the issue. dumb lib.
>>5349264
i'm not sure where i advocated intervention in people's lives anywhere there, i just said transgenderism and gay pride shouldn't be cheered on
>>5349099
i don't hate transsexuals
and i'm not religious, i just think they're mentally ill and not getting the right help
>>5348654
He wasn't dictating what the actual text of the law should be or how it should be interpreted. He was saying that there should be a law to protect people.
>>5349269
>implying that not supporting abortion means ur a christian
You can not be a secular atheist and not support abortion. A fetus is not a person. There is no scientific evidence to say it is a person outside of MUH SOUL MUH GOD MUH JEBUS!
>implying that non-discrimination laws actually prevent racism and don't just mask the issue. dumb lib.
No. Non-discrimination laws exist because of the specific failure of the so called "market" to address the issue.
That's how it is in all things in our society. We have a Federal Reserve because before we did have it we would have economic crashes every couple of years. Before social security, old people lived in massive amount of poverty. We have medicare because people need access to healthcare. If your so called "free market" is so great why is it every country on earth expect Somalia doesn't have a "free market" economy?
>>5349071
lmao @ all this.
>just me guessing here from what you typed and the avatar fagging but I feel the need to say...
Trip on, you namefagging tranny
>>5349278
>>5349287
You just said it, despite not having any medical qualifications, you want to interfere in the business patients and their doctors conduct.
Literally what the soviets did when docs tries doing those things in the seventies.
I'm disillusioned with the left because their opposition to individualism and autonomy but you're no better.
>>5349310
>transgenderism is a mental disorder that should not be encouraged
does not mean "the state should prevent people from getting hormoes and SRS"
i don't believe the state should exist ffs
>>5349287
>and i'm not religious,
>but let me post all of this religious bullshit
Rightttttt. And next you will say the earth was created 6,000 years ago.
>>5349315
>i don't believe the state should exist ffs
Why don't you move to your paradise stateless society of Somalia?
>>5349308
Fair enough, I just don't see why the goverment should raid my bank account to give the same people who legislate my rights away free pills and abortions.
I don't get any help from the state for my stuff, nor do I want it.
What right do they have to take money from me and for frivolous stuff like this?
>>5349319
can you point me towards the religious part?
>>5349315
So then how do you plan to impose your morality on doctors and others who think otherwise?
>>5349326
unfortunately there is in fact a government (or rather 2-3 depending on your definition) in somalia as of a few years ago :(
also its full of black people
>>5349331
this may blow your mind but i don't?
>>5349327
>Fair enough, I just don't see why the goverment should raid my bank account to give the same people who legislate my rights away free pills and abortions.
No society on this planet has ever existed without taxes. You don't want to pay your taxes? Well your ass should be thrown in jail. Simple as that. You can't have a society without taxes.
And we should have all healthcare free. We should have a single payer government run system in the USA like the UK has the NHS. There is no reason we should even be debating abortion or birth control in 2015 AD. Women's rights should not be restricted.
>I don't get any help from the state for my stuff,
Such as? Everyone by definition gets help from the state. The roads you drive on from example are public.
>What right do they have to take money from me and for frivolous stuff like this?
Because your a stupid retard like most Americans and government exists to keep retards like you in line.
>>5349328
>>>In accordance, the overall mortality rate was only significantly increased for the group operated before 1989. However, the latter might also be explained by improved health care for transsexual persons during 1990s, along with altered societal attitudes towards persons with different gender expressions.
Empirical data says mortality is statistically indistinguishable from the general pop.
Citing extremist fringe sites and insisting the bourgeoisie doctors are wrong is just another sign you've fallen off the ends of the political horseshoe. Go back to ISIS.
>>5349333
You do realize that socialism, like anarchism, does work when white people are the majority and in control, right? Look at Scandinavia. The only one not doing well is Sweden
>>5349308
Even if a fetus isn't a person. You're still ending the potential for life for purely selfish means. Abortion in itself is an immoral act. The government should not be funding it (inb4 it's illegal to fund abortion whatever liberal)
Lol the reason why the market wasn't able to stop discrimination is because of federal laws and federal law enforcement preventing activity from happening.
why are all ur example terrible memes?
>the Fed
The fed hasn't increased stability over pre-Fed levels. Fed clearly hasn't been able to stimulate our economy even with 0% interest rates
>Social security
seniors are still impoverished as fuck. do you seriously think that living off of 12000/year is living above poverty?
>medicare
why won't the healthcare is a right meme die? medicare is an unpaid liability that is going to destroy this country.
>the somalia meme
i hope middle school is going great for you. somalia is a decentralized failed state with war lords fighting over territory. i don't understand how it would be considered a free market economy if they have no respect for property rights.
2/10 back to tumblr u go.
>>5349363
>le scandinavia is socialist and works meme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNtyV0CXfzU
>>5349356
>extremist fringe sites
the Williams Institute at UCLA is fringe?
>le horseshoe meme
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy
>>5349333
>unfortunately there is in fact a government (or rather 2-3 depending on your definition) in somalia
A very weak federal government that only operates Mogadishu. It's mostly clan tribes fighting for power, like all weak non-collectivist societies. The truth is Islamists like the ones in Somalia and ISIS are actually the most libertarian group on earth. Because what's you get rid of government, religion takes total authority over society.
>also its full of black people
The most neo-liberal free market countries on earth are in Africa. They have that system not because they choose, but because the developed countries, that have welfare states maintained by imperialism, force them to do so. Why do you hate the free market?
>>5349333
Anarchism and socialism aren't exclusionary ideologies (history suggests the opposite actually).
>>5348711
That still doesn't mean that /r9k/ tier insults add anything to the conversation.
>>5349287
The "right help" as you call it, doesn't exist and likely won't for several more decades at the very least. What we're doing now is the best known treatment.
>>5349315
>i don't believe the state should exist ffs
That's simply not feasible. If the state ceased to exist, it would only be replaced by another.
>>5349328
What exactly is this supposed to show?
>>5349333
Again, if it's so great there, why don't you move there instead of continuing to live in a "socialist" country? Besides, what makes you think pre-2000 Somalia was socialist?
>>5349377
Every developed nation on earth has aspects of democratic socialism.
Is social security the "free market"?
What about medicare?
What about foodstamps?
All because of progressive socialist legislation.
>>5349383
>neo-liberal free market countries on earth are in Africa.
you can't be this fucking retarded now can you?
Zimbabwe
Many of the central African countries are kleptocracies and socialist states where tax dollars are stolen by the government. The government works hand in hand with corporation to steal and sell natural resources. That sounds like and is characteristic of a socialist government.
>>5349383
the most free market countries are singapore and hong kong
Mauritius is considered part of the continent of africa but is an Indian ocean island full off...indians and is very free as well
Botswana is fairly economically free and does the best out of any sub-saharan country in standard of living
the rest of africa is a socialist shithole
i'm not going to address your stupid point about the state being necessarily to prevent theocracy seeing as most of the middle east is run by theocracies
fuck leftists are great at spewing bullshit that wastes time correcting
>>5349375
>Even if a fetus isn't a person. You're still ending the potential for life for purely selfish means. Abortion in itself is an immoral act. The government should not be funding it (inb4 it's illegal to fund abortion whatever liberal)
Choosing not to have reproductive sex, because you're gay or asexual, or don't want to deal with the burden of having kids, or using birth control, all are "still ending the potential life for purely selfish means". Should we ban those things too?
>i hope middle school is going great for you. somalia is a decentralized failed state with war lords fighting over territory. i don't understand how it would be considered a free market economy if they have no respect for property rights.
So then you acknowledge that a free market requires a government to impose laws for it to function?
>>5349398
socialist programs != successful programs
if those programs were so great why don't you see people flocking to sign up for them or asking for those programs to be extended to every income bracket? because only the fucking desperate want to enroll in those programs.
having a social safety for some does not mean we should all have it.
>>5349398
and all of it is bad
>>5349395
>Besides, what makes you think pre-2000 Somalia was socialist?
it was a fucking communist dictatorship you idiot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Democratic_Republic
fuck i hate you idiots so much
don't talk about shit you don't know anything about and try not to fucking vote
>>5349403
>The government works hand in hand with corporation to steal and sell natural resources. That sounds like and is characteristic of a socialist government.
Not that guy, the scenario you described would be socialistic only if the government owned that corporations productive property AKA it was nationalized. Which it may or may not be, I have no idea bout Zimbabwe.
>>5349423
it is
Mugabe nationalized all the big industries because they were owned by whites
>>5349375
>Even if a fetus isn't a person. You're still ending the potential for life for purely selfish means. Abortion in itself is an immoral act. The government should not be funding it (inb4 it's illegal to fund abortion whatever liberal)
You do that every time you have gay sex or masturbate because those sperm could be used for a baby. Using your logic all condoms and contraception should be illegal. You are now more a religious freak than Ted Cruz.
>Lol the reason why the market wasn't able to stop discrimination is because of federal laws and federal law enforcement preventing activity from happening.
Not true at all. Federal laws is what brought an end to Jim Crow. What fucking planet are you living on? I don't remember George Wallace calling for more federal government intervention.
>The fed hasn't increased stability over pre-Fed levels. Fed clearly hasn't been able to stimulate our economy even with 0% interest rates
You didn't address anything I said about market crashes to the pre-Fed era. Why are you such a lying SOB? The economic situation would be much worse today without the fed.
>seniors are still impoverished as fuck. do you seriously think that living off of 12000/year is living above poverty?
No were near as bad as it was in the 1930s fucktard. Read a fucking book.
>why won't the healthcare is a right meme die? medicare is an unpaid liability that is going to destroy this country.
Do you think children should die? What about the disabled? What if I can't pay? And no, you are dead wrong. Medicare and social security give back to our society. That means every dollar you give to those systems, you get it back ten fold.
>>5349420
>and all of it is bad
And I'm sure you'd still be saying that if you lost all your money and were unable to get food or medical care.
>>5349413
>Choosing not to have reproductive sex, because you're gay or asexual, or don't want to deal with the burden of having kids, or using birth control, all are "still ending the potential life for purely selfish means". Should we ban those things too?
Slippery slope.
>So then you acknowledge that a free market requires a government to impose laws for it to function?
>implying that property rights can only exist because of man-made laws.
you're a really bad troll. the sad thing tho is i don't even think you are trolling. you actually believe the shit you spew.
>>5349446
>Slippery slope.
So? Clearly there are some cases where "ending a potential life" is okay, and others where it's not. Why?
>>implying that property rights can only exist because of man-made laws.
Who's going to enforce them then? What will be the consequences for violating property rights in the absence of man-made laws?
>>5349438
>You didn't address anything I said about market crashes to the pre-Fed era. Why are you such a lying SOB? The economic situation would be much worse today without the fed.
nothing was ever as bad as the Great Depression you retard
the united states had the greatest increase in wealth from 1832-1913
learn some fucking history and not just whats shoved down your dumb gullet
>>5349446
Not him, but property rights literally only exists because of man made laws. Isn't that obvious?
>>5349438
>i hope middle school is going great for you. somalia is a decentralized failed state with war lords fighting over territory. i don't understand how it would be considered a free market economy if they have no respect for property rights.
>le ebic middle school meme
Hey retard, the free market itself means "no gubmit." That means I don't have to respect any so called "property rights". Property rights are a statist concept, and can only be enforced by - you guessed it - THE STATE!
Libertarian society would be like ISIS. When you get rid of government, all you have left for authority is religion. That means rule by FORCE. Aka those with the guns. Libertarian society would mean LGBT people would be executed and killed by religious fascists.
>2/10 back to tumblr u go.
Strawman.
>>5349458
>nothing was ever as bad as the Great Depression you retard
All caused because taxes were dropped from around the 90% range to around the 20% range by Warren G. Harding. Again more lies by the reich wing.
>>5349464
>Islamic State
>is not a state
>>5349477
Nature abhors a vacuum. If you eliminate an existing state, it will be replaced by whoever is willing and able to replace it. Which in many cases is a militant radical group like ISIS.
>>5349462
so if the government didn't exist and i bought something or made something i'd have no rights to it?
this is what statists actually believe.
>>5349476
you're getting your stupid libshit propaganda mixed up
taxes were not at 90% during world war 1
you're thinking of ww2 and even then it was only for the richest of the rich
https://mises.org/library/good-ol-days-when-tax-rates-were-90-percent
>>5349476
Wow you even suck at leftist economics. From a Marxian point of view, the great depression was caused by overproduction which has some truth.
>>5349420
>it was a fucking communist dictatorship you idiot
The dictatorship collapsed in 1991 and became an libertarian society. Not sure why you fail to mention that.
>>5349488
You wouldn't have any meaningful way of protecting that right. I could punch you in the face and take your stuff, and there really isn't anything you could do about it, short of responding in kind.
>>5349355
Am a bleeding heart libertarian and coming from a former left position, so I don't even have an issue with most of the social contact stuff you brought up. Too bad everything that came afterwards sounded just like what the fundies would say.
>NHS
Is a catastrophe for patient rights, they block the use of therapies they deem experimental whereas in the states you'll have no shortage of university hospitals that will help you out.
The NHS is also infamous for treating their lgbt patients terribly. Not only do they refuse to abide by WPATH 7 guidelines because they deem them too liberal, but they've also tried to prosecute doctors who did follow those guidelines. Patients aren't allowed to have any individualism when you turn doctors into commissars and crate a system that rejects any change.
http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/general-medical-council-failing-trans-people-they-clear-top-doctor-after-four-year-probe2602/
Whatever the problem the states have, their health care system doesn't dehumanize people.
As for the free contraceptives, I don't see how the very same organizations who spent all of last century lobbying the goverment to criminalize doctors who provide medical transition and blocking private insurance from covering it have any right to demand the same lgbt people they've harmed pay them for their abortions.
It's essentially the same as religious freaks who'd ban anything goes they dislike and then turn around and demand goverment sponsorship.
Nah, this is exactly why I left the left.
>>5349488
You lack critical thinking. Without a state, anything you own can only be protected by your own might which is basically just your own mini state.
>>5346001
>I wish there was a bit more military experience on in the presidential candidate pool this cycle
Trump seems to have been making none too subtle nudges to certain respected (if sometimes contentious) military veterans lately. I wonder if he might go for a former general as VP.
>>5349488
>this is what statists actually believe.
Do you even know what that term means?
>>5349497
>have something
>someone uses force against me and steals my something
>sit there and do nothing and wait for the government to save me
is this the actual liberal thinking process?
even the most fucking primitive and nomadic tribes on earth know that stealing something that is not urs is wrong and u should be able to use force against them to take ur thing away from them.
liberals obviously can't comprehend that.
>>5349523
people like you who worship the state because its all you know
>>5349518
>its like blaming capitalism for the chaos in 1992 russia
State capitalism is the problem for all countries world wide.
The problem is we don't have a single socialist society on earth.
>>5349518
>i like how in your fevered idiotic mind ISIS just came out of nowhere and wasn't just an entity that overthrew the previous state
It may not have come out of nowhere, but it didn't overthrow the state on its own, it took advantage of weakness in the existing government. And regardless, you can't just eliminate the state and expect everyone to get along. Whoever can recruit the largest army will likely end up being the new state.
>>5349531
>people like you who worship the state because its all you know
And you worship the almighty free market. How are you any better? At least I know people exist, you believe in magical thinking.
>>5349529
>the most fucking primitive and nomadic tribes on earth know that stealing something that is not urs is wrong
That's called man made law buddy. Just because it might not be formally written down anywhere doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
>>5349541
the market is everyone you dolt, shit like this shows you just have no idea what you're talking about like libertarians believe in a literal invisible hand or something
>>5349534
>muh no true socialism
>>5349529
>is this the actual liberal thinking process?
>even the most fucking primitive and nomadic tribes on earth know that stealing something that is not urs is wrong and u should be able to use force against them to take ur thing away from them.
>liberals obviously can't comprehend that.
Sure, you can use force, but so can the thief. You have about a 50% chance of getting it back, unlike the close to 100% chance you would have in an effective court system. Sure, you can say it's wrong, but that doesn't give you any more ability to get it back in this situation. Whoever ends up with it in this case has nothing to do with who has the "right" to own it, it depends entirely on which of you is more effective at using deadly force.
>>5349536
>why
what i
>>5349544
well i was talking about actual codified law.
>>5346255
>(except I am pro-Israel, so there's that)
Pro-Israel in the sense that you believe the Jews should have their own homeland, or Pro-Israel in the "Israel is our greatest ally!" sense?
>>5349553
I'm not that idiot, but the argument made in the picture is moronic. There are a million different schools of socialism and just because they don't agree with each other does not mean that you can not well-define a specific flavor of socialism.
>>5349564
It doesn't have to be written down to be a law, or perform the function of one. Saying it's not a law because it's not written down is just arguing over semantics. The point is, rights need to be enforced by human action, else they exist only theoretically. Telling yourself "I have a right to that thing I made", won't really do you much good when you don't have a means of getting it back from the person who robbed you.
>>5349573
no they literally cannot define what they mean by the public ownership of the means of production and how to distribute it
>>5349506
>The NHS is also infamous for treating their lgbt patients terribly.
In America, LGBT can be denied services, healthcare, SRS, and even hospitals.
>Whatever the problem the states have, their health care system doesn't dehumanize people.
You stupid cunt. Our healthcare system is the WORST IN THE ENTIRE PLANET. Go anywhere else and they are laughing at the stupid Amerifats like you. The reason our healthcare system is shit is because we allowed private insurance companies to rape our system.
>It's essentially the same as religious freaks who'd ban anything goes they dislike and then turn around and demand goverment sponsorship.
I've stated many times in this thread that ISIS is the most libertarian society on earth. When you get rid of government, what do you think all of these god fearing Christians in America will do? Turn to JEBUS GOD BIBLE! Why do you think right wingers are all religious?
>>5349118
>I'm not sure what universe you are living in, but American Christians are basically the ISIS version of Christians.
So they're openly throwing gays off buildings and beheading us in the streets? Wow, I wasn't aware that things were so bad in this country!
Grow the fuck up.
>>5349553
>the market is everyone you dolt,
God is everyone you dolt,
>shit like this shows you just have no idea what you're talking about like libertarians believe in a literal invisible hand or something
shit like this shows you just have no idea what you're talking about like Christians believe in a literal invisible man or something
LIBERTARIANS = RELIGION
>>5349578
https://mises.org/library/who’s-bias-against-free-market-healthcare
>You stupid cunt. Our healthcare system is the WORST IN THE ENTIRE PLANET
its not even close to the worst, 37th of 200 as rated by a world government organization
>>5349591
oof that's cringey
can't do any better than that?
>>5349588
>So they're openly throwing gays off buildings and beheading us in the streets? Wow, I wasn't aware that things were so bad in this country!
There are plenty of American pastors calling for the killing of gays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w83kIAfuKoE
yes our country IS THIS BAD! The Christian reich wing fascists won't stop until they bring back Adolf Hitler and put all lgbt people in death camps.
>>5349591
>LIBERTARIANS = RELIGION
how can i block this person's posts? they need ron paul I mean jesus.
>>5349577
No you're just an idiot. For example, Communism means a gift economy. Or Market socialism means worker co-ops without bosses. Whether or not you agree with any of that is one thing, but making dumb arguments like "no one can define spooky socialism" just means you really don't understand it.
>>5349597
Are you trolling? Fringe Christians in America mean nothing and they can't do anything to you.
>>5349601
>communism means a gift economy
lol it does not at all mean that and market socialism does not mean Syndicalism
i'm actually talking about specific kinds of socialism having no idea how to allocate resources without a price system but you can't even define different kinds of socialism
>>5349592
>its not even close to the worst, 37th of 200 as rated by a world government organization
Number 1 in spending, and among one of the lowest in the developed world for quality of healthcare.
But that's ok because MUH FREE MARKET
>>5349597
>Citing Pastor fucking Anderson as being representative of American Christians.
Top fucking kek m8. Next thing you'll tell me is that the Westboro Baptist Church has any actual power. I'll take people carrying signs with mean language on them over people who are LITERALLY MURDERING US OPENLY AND WITHOUT ANY RESISTANCE any day.
>>5349606
>Fringe Christians in America mean nothing and they can't do anything to you.
There was a pastor who called for the killing of gays. Guess which three Republicans attended his event? Ted Cruz,Mike Huckabee, and Bobby Jindal. All running for president and could be president of this United States.
You better believe they have influence on the JEBUS PARTY
>>5349610
>owever, it is also true that many of the WHO’s criteria are not only irrelevant to the actual quality or effectiveness of a nation’s healthcare system, but also contribute to bias, and particularly, a bias against more free-market healthcare systems. Specifically, a criterion such as how much patients pay out of pocket, and even a criterion as subjective as “fairness” (in which the United States ranks no. 54 worldwide according to the WHO).
fuck your fairness, obamacare is a fucking failure and trump will win in 2016
>>5349613
>Top fucking kek m8. Next thing you'll tell me is that the Westboro Baptist Church has any actual power. I'll take people carrying signs with mean language on them over people who are LITERALLY MURDERING US OPENLY AND WITHOUT ANY RESISTANCE any day.
The god of the bible clearly states all homosexuals should be put to death. That's what your god demands. Either you accept the word of your sky fairy the clouds or YOU BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY!
>>5349617
>obamacare is a fucking failure
1. No it isn't.
2. we need single payer.
>trump will win in 2016
Trumptards are dumber than horseshit. Attack government healthcare but ignore the fact Trump supports single payer healthcare.
>>5349620
He's not "my" god anon, I'm an Athiest.
Also, [citation needed], from the New Testament please.
>>5349620
it may say it but the only people who actually do it are mudshit islamists
>>5349607
Actual communism would function (assuming it would do so) as a gift economy since there is no actual money. Syndicalism relies heavily on mutual aid and horizontal organization which I did not describe at all. Market Socialism is almost the same shit as we have now since it's still a market economy. The difference is the structure and organization of labor obviously.
>>5349626
>New Testament
Here we go.....
Jesus did not come to repeal the old laws. So even Jesus says kill all gays.
>>5349625
trump doesn't support single payer anymore and yes obamacare is failing
The Consumer Operated and Oriented Plan, or Co-Op, portion of the health care law established nonprofit health insurers that would receive federal funding and were intended to compete with private, for-private insurers on the exchanges as a way to lower prices. They were supposed to be small-scale single-payer systems that would be free from the profit motive; a progressive's dream solution to the problem of providing health insurance for all.
Instead, they've turned into a nightmare. So far, 12 of the 23 co-ops have failed, defaulting on more than $1.2 billion in federal loans. Only two have been able to break even so far, and most of the remaining co-ops are eyeing massive premium increases—as high as 40 percent in some cases—to stay solvent.
>>5349627
Okay, but that means that all of the so-called "Christians" are going to hell.
>>5349627
>it may say it but the only people who actually do it are mudshit islamists
There was a guy in Philly not to far from were I lived who was stoned to death for being gay a few years ago. Look it up. All because of you GOOD CHRISTIANS!
Russia is also showing gays what GOOD CHRISTIAN VALUES are like as the police beat the shit out of them under dictator Putin.
>>5349650
>Anyone calling you on your bullshit is Christian.
Okay.
>>5349641
>trump doesn't support single payer anymore
He literally said single payer healthcare works. Fucking retarded Trumptards. All you know is "BUILD WALL". You don't know anything about your candidate.
>>5349655
Libertarianism is a religion and a mental disorder.
>>5349650
Guess who pushes gay people off of buildings every day?
>>5349667
Progressivism is a religion and a mental disorder.
>>5349578
Better to have one hospital treat lgbt badly and organize against it and have alternatives than it is to have an entire statist apparatus treat lgbt people as shit and black list them and any doctors that they to be nice to them.
You can fix the worst problems in yours with regulations that curve abuse and taking advantage of the socially liberal mindset most educated people have. Nothing will help a system full of bureaucrats that sees any attempt at change as a menace short of disolving them.
Would rather chaos than being striped of basic rights by a monopolistic organizations. I don't see why I should have to pay the taxes or fun abortions to organizations with a history of scapegoating lgbt people either.
And just to put it out, I never said there wasn't a role for laws to protect natural rights and people from being victimized by other people or groups be they theocratic or state. And parts of social democracy can work in principle so long as they don't harm choice and individualism like an NHS would. A well educated public with social mobility is needed if you want liberal democracy to work.
>>5349658
he said it works in scotland but doesn't think it will work here
i'm sure you didn't watch the debates because they trigger you, but this is from the First debate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zFRjExsfTk
>>5349670
>Guess who pushes gay people off of buildings every day?
ISIS
But how does that change anything I said about Christian pastors actively trying to discriminate against LGBTs in the USA?
Did you know it was illegal to be gay in some USA states until 2003 AD in this god fearing bible shit hole?
USA is the only developed nation in the USA without LGBT rights laws. Even places like Ukraine, Mozambique, and Northern Cyprus have lgbt rights laws. All because of you conservative fascists on the reich wing.
>>5349671
>Progressivism is a religion and a mental disorder.
That would imply it's magical thinking. Progressive works. Look at Europe, Australia, Canada, Japan, South Korea, etc. from more details.
>>5349681
>he said it works in scotland but doesn't think it will work here
That makes no fucking sense. Are you trumptards this fucking stupid?
>single payer works everywhere outside of the USA, but we shouldn't enact it.
HURR DURRRR
What kind of dipshit votes for a billionaire retard like Trump? I suggest you eat a bullet already.
>>5349685
>But how does that change anything I said about Christian pastors actively trying to discriminate against LGBTs in the USA?
Because they're mostly irrelevant. Someone else said it, but to beat Christians all you have to do is wait for them to die out in a couple of decades.
Mulisms are cancer that is growing rapidly in number and infecting the western world. They aren't a problem in the US yet, but they cause a bunch of shit in Europe and it's best to avoid it completely.
>>5349680
>Better to have one hospital treat lgbt badly and organize against it and have alternatives
No more like most rural hospitals will deny LGBT care and they die. So you are advocating for the death penalty for gays.
>than it is to have an entire statist apparatus treat lgbt people as shit
Which doesn't happen and you are lying piece of shit cunt face, but keep it up.
>with regulations
Regulations? What? Aren't you the anarchist retard?
>Would rather chaos than being striped of basic rights by a monopolistic organizations.
Well that chaos is fucking me and everyone else over. What abut my basic right to HEALTHCARE in this country? If I go to a doctor I shouldn't have to pay for it.
>I don't see why I should have to pay the taxes or fun abortions to organizations with a history of scapegoating lgbt people either.
Again this sounds like the writing of a lgbt religious nut. Are you the PP shooter by any chance?
>I never said there wasn't a role for laws to protect natural rights
Oh so you believe in rights, but not the ones that actually matter like right to water, food, healthcare, education, etc.
>>5349694
>europe
in the shit
>australia
doing ok under conservatives
>canada
did ok under conservatives
>japan
in a 15 year recession
>south korea
doing ok under conservatives
>>5349700
>different places might produce different outcomes because they're different
>DUDE SO STUPID LMAO
it only seems to work in white and east asian countries actually
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyDC1GmOOcQ
>>5349702
>Because they're mostly irrelevant.
Campaign for Houston
Family Research Council
Focus on the Family
All have massive influence over the electorate. All conservative reich wing organizations that control the entire GOP.
>all you have to do is wait for them to die out in a couple of decades.
Until that time I guess I just have to accept being a second class citizen?
>Mulisms are cancer that is growing rapidly in number and infecting the western world.
Capitalism and neo-liberalism are the real cancer. Our only solution for religious fundie bullshit is socialism worldwide. And Islam like all religions is bs that should be banned.
>>5349751
>reich wing
are you underage or something?
>neoliberalism exists and isn't just a bogeyman
lol
>>5349735
>conservatives
What is a conservative? Conservatives in the UK for example love (or least used to) boast about the nation healthcare system in their country. The Conservative Party in the UK was supporting the most socialist healthcare system on the planet. So I don't really know what you mean by "conservative" anymore.
>>5349759
>are you underage or something?
Are YOU?
>neoliberalism exists and isn't just a bogeyman
If you seriously think neo-liberalism doesn't exist I suggest you turn off corporate media like Faux News and watch real news programs like Free Speech TV or RT America. Corporations aren't people friend.
>>5349751
>Until that time I guess I just have to accept being a second class citizen?
Except that gay marriage is legal. And pretty much every company ever has specific non discrimination policies. It's 2015 not 1960.
>>5349775
>Free Speech TV
Never heard of it.
>RT America
Isn't that Putin's propaganda channel? The one that claimed the Ukrainians shot down an airliner with an ANTI-TANK missile?
>>5349775
corporations are literal groups of people, i don't know why leftists think its a profound thing to say
i've never met anyone nor heard of anyone who calls themselves a neoliberal
neoliberal economics has only really been implemented in Estonia, everywhere else its just used as a smear to anyone who isn't socialist enough
also lol RT
>>5349804
>corporations are literal groups of people, i don't know why leftists think its a profound thing to say
Being a group of people isn't the same as being a person. And if corporations are people, how come they don't have to register for selective service? Are all corporations female?
>>5349694
>Progressive works. Look at Europe
Progressivism/multiculturalism is literally killing places like the UK and Sweden. A decade from now, at the current rate things are going, those countries will not be safe for openly gay people to live in. And what fucking terrifies me is that so many other LGBT people are supporting the country being flooded with their own future executioners, because that's the "progressive" thing to do.
>>5349799
PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELF
https://www.freespeech.org/
http://therealnews.com/t2/
http://majority.fm/report/
http://www.mikemalloy.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/SecularTalk
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheYoungTurks
>Isn't that Putin's propaganda channel? The one that claimed the Ukrainians shot down an airliner with an ANTI-TANK missile?
1. There is no proof that Russia shoot down that plane.
2. The war was ignited by the American empire pushing eastern European states into NATO. USA said it would stop NATO expansion after east Germany but didn't. This could have been prevented.
>>5349824
>Being a group of people isn't the same as being a person
corporate personhood does not confer extra rights
however, you believe that being a government agent does confer extra rights i assume, for example the ability to conscript men into warfare
i'm sure you registered for SS though because you're such a good little boy
"thank you massah"
>>5349825
>no gubmit
>expect we need to ban immigrants
Want to know how I know small government people are full of shit?
>>5349836
>less government
>but that government we keep should protect borders
completely respectable position
>big government
not one
>>5349836
Where did I say anything about big or small government?
>>5349843
>big government
Expect abortion, borders, LGBT rights, military, oil subsides, farm subsides, police, prisons, drug laws, death penalty, etc.
At least right wing anarchists are consistent in their retardation. You literally pick and choose.
>>5349734
>lying piece of shit
http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/general-medical-council-failing-trans-people-they-clear-top-doctor-after-four-year-probe2602/#gs.H=e_1jA
Nope, and it's not even rightist groups that say so. Socialism is nice in principle, but when you get renegade systems that treat people badly just because they can then you know you've fucked the implementation.
>hospitals will deny LGBT care
If you've got groups that use bigotry as a excuse to harm others, or doctors that break their oaths, then that's what laws are for. A lot of the big medical organisations are cracking down on people for that. At any rate, for everyone of those you have, you'll have dozens of liberal centeres and uni hospitals in the cities. I'd trust those more than NHS.
>basic right to HEALTHCARE
If the states didn't fuck up your Medicaid expansion, you'd have it.
>Regulations? What? Aren't you the anarchist retard?
Not them and I think you forgot what the bleeding heart part of the lable stands for. Harming others isn't a natural right.
>education
Uh, >>5349680 said that is a public interest in a healthy society. Ditto your others.
>you the PP shooter by any chance?
https://reason.com/blog/2015/12/01/next-stop-on-crazy-train-maybe-planned-p
And now you literally just pulled a Ted Cruz, nice. Said I don't approve of the government funding anti-lgbt groups. goverment doesn't help with lgbt issues so why ask lgbt people to pay up for nonvital abortion procedures?
Of course you went all the way into the conspiracy theory route. Nice demonstration of horseshoe theory.
>>5349855
>small government= GOP policy
kek, kill yourself my man
>>5349735
>Canada
Actually in a recession from low oil prices.
Despite all its natural advantages it's one of the worst performing and a petrostate no less.
>>5349851
>Where did I say anything about big or small government?
This is a socialist vs neo-liberal thread. What the fuck side are you on?
>>5349828
>1. There is no proof that Russia shoot down that plane.
Correct, however there is strong evidence than a surface-to-air missile system was in the area at the time, and that after the plane was downed it was missing one of its missiles. Implying it was fired. There was also a leader of the pro-Russian rebels who posted to social media at the time that they downed a Ukranian military plane. There is no record of a Ukrainian military plane in the vicinity at the time, and the social media post was deleted shortly thereafter, so it would seem that the rebels shot down the MH17 thinking it was a military plane. While it is possible that the Ukrainians did it as a false flag to pin it on the Russians, it just doesn't make sense. Most other countries already regarded Russia as the bad guy, and the Ukrainians would stand to lose a great deal of support if they were caught killing 300 innocent civilians in a false flag attack to make Russia look bad.
>>5349834
>corporate personhood does not confer extra rights
Really? Some have used it to justify corporate donations to political campaigns.
>however, you believe that being a government agent does confer extra rights i assume, for example the ability to conscript men into warfare
Yes, that's part of the social contract. I may disagree with it, but it's preferable to living without the government. I'd rather have a miniscule chance of being drafted than have a high chance of having to take up arms to defend my own property, which is what would very likely happen if there was no government.
>>5349856
The point I'm fucking making is that if there are any flaws in government healthcare, it means we should address them not by getting rid of all government, but fixing the problems in the system.
I would much rather have the federal government running my healthcare than Hobby Lobby.
>Said I don't approve of the government funding anti-lgbt groups.
But you don't want LGBTs to get any government funding at all.
>>5349884
I never said it was Russia or Ukraine that shoot it down.
>>5349880
no one is a neoliberal in this thread retard
>>5349916
Who else would likely have done it though?
>>5349923
>no one is a neoliberal in this thread retard
Yes they are. You just don't know what the fuck neo-liberalism means because your a stupid fat Amerilard who watches Fox Noise all day.
>>5349898
You can do that with regulating abuses and keeping a system decentralized. Medicaid fills that gap for people who can't have better but a single payer would just created the sort of mess the NHS is like.
>don't want LGBTs to get any government funding at all.
They don't get anything either way. I'd rather see everyone get treated equal and have the biggots loose their tax payer money too.
>>5349932
>Who else would likely have done it though?
Right wing neo-Nazi anti-Russian groups in Ukraine
Anti-Ukrainian government forces
Again there is not proof Moscow gave the order for the attack.
>>5349943
neoliberalism is a left wing meme
>>5349944
>have the biggots loose their tax payer money too.
The bigots would never allow that to ever happen. The bigots would throw your ass in jail before you ever did that for them.
The truth is: every group in America is statist. All people want some kind of government hand out because that's how human society is. It's just a matter who which group is right (liberals) and which is wrong (reich wingers).
You will never have a religious nation like the USA ever advocate for cutting off their funding.
>>5349962
>neoliberalism is a left wing meme
Stupidity seems to be like butter on bread for the average American.
Our current fucking system is neo-liberal. GWB, Obama, Clinton are all neoliberal. Neoliberal = selective market system which a very small limited welfare state to maintain a bare minimum for society while maximizing profits for the 1% with massive tax cuts.
>Make government as small as possible so LGBT doesn't have to wait until we're allowed to legally exist! We can protect ourselves!
>No! Make government as big as possible so they can protect us and hope that no one who hates us will ever come into power!
You're both stupid. Going to the extreme with any ideology is how we'll die
>>5349970
Pretty much every group ever is statist. Without a state, there is nothing to protect you. Sure, if you're armed you might have a chance, but your enemies can still outnumber you. Anarchy/libertarianism doesn't work, because a government of some kind ends up being created the moment there is a serious internal conflict.
>>5349981
How about we amend the constitution so that only lgbt people can be elected to government positions?
>>5350023
>You're talking about corporatism there.
Neoliberalism is corporatism.
>>5350023
>You're talking about corporatism there.
That's basically what neo-liberalism means. It means extreme laissez-faire, which inevitably results in corporatism.
>>5350001
>How about we amend the constitution so that only lgbt people can be elected to government positions?
Better solution
>Republican Voters Should Be Denied The Right To Vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx6v2Tk0sXU
>>5346173
*children earlier
>>5346506
I can respect that, but do you have anything equivalent to offer from your country?
>>5347774
>amendment preventing service &employment denial based on gender identity
I have a problem with this.For example, big city bar owners notoriously hire solely gay men as bar tenders- since straight men will usually let women drink the house under the table. Codified into federal law, this would cause more problems for employers, when we deal with enough red tape already.
>>5347814
I'm not really part of the LCR, but I see your point. Playing with party politics is poisonous. Different factions vie for power and throw the other ones under the bus for electability. You can see a similar thing happening between BLM democrats and Jim Webb democrats, though one faction isn't administratively barred from supporting the other.
>False dichotomy
A dichotomy exists, and operating within it seems effective. Operating outside of it seems to be a wasted vote.
>>5347838
>My lgbt friends on the other hand have alienated the shit out of me
Same story as me and the other anon?
>>5348277
>Voting for practical, immediate and selfish reasons
Belorussians typically vote in Lukashenko, a semi-commie who supports full employment subsidized by the state, at the expense of long term economic growth and free commerce. Why? They like stability and an income, and have little ideological anchor to political life.
>>5348312
This is already in effect in the US and many other nations. Though if I answered "no, I did not have sex with another male since 1977" they would have let my blood in the system.
>>5350135
>Not really laissez-faire in that you have powerful interests, state, magnate and theocratic converge. Just look at what happened to civil liberties in the thousands when parties like Labour embraced it.
You can get that kind of support without government. The problem is that laissez faire in practice means laws are passed in favor of whoever has enough money to bribe politicians.
>>5349880
Neither.
>>5350104
So I assume under that solution Republicans would no longer be taxed?
>>5350261
Sure, but they'd have to pay to use the highways or be protected by our military and police forces.
>>5349667
I'm not libertarian.
>>5348768
>gay pride doesn't help the cause
I have to sadly agree. There may have been a time and place for it, but now going to a rally, parade, club or protest isn't that impactful
WHO ARE WE!?
>What do we all have in common? Our um..sexuality. That's it.
WHAT DO WE WANT!?
>Well we're hundreds of people from various walks of life and various opinions, but by sheer coincidence we apparently want the same policy in effect as that politician/activist with the bullhorn at the front of the march or microphone on stage
>>5348985
> neocon
Which is why the Cruz/Rand faction has gained so much popularity
>trotskyite
Sure, even Chomsky noted how former Trostyists entered conservative mags, think tanks, and political positions
>religious
They are probably the most powerful faction in the GOP, but cannot win without the other factions
>fascist
Militarily? The nation is very hesitant to extend military reach after the past 2 wars. At the very least they would have more respect from the Pentagon.
Corporatism? We could get that with Democrats as well.
>why any secular pro-free market conservative would actually go out and vote
I abstained from voting for a long time, but I have a lucky feeling about this one. Trump can take blue dog democrats away from the progressive left and ram through some reactionary politics.
>The presidency has very little impact over our lives
If congress also shifts blue, this might mean it can never go back to red due to demographic changes. At the very least a GOP president would serve a symbol of the voters telling the progressive faction to suck it.
>Regardless of the election...
I agree. But one path will speed up the process. The other path allows an opportunity to slow it down or reverse it.
>Prepping, guns & property innawoods
Way ahead of you, /k/ommando
>>5349039
>Rational way to vote is self interest
In one sense, if I supported immediate self interest, I would vote left, cry victimhood, and work to expand the welfare state. In long term and community interest, it would be more beneficial to expand private sector growth, cut off parasites, and limit immigration.
I respect your point though, straight ballot voting is stupid.
>I've been blocked on grindr because I told someone I supported Ted Cruz shutting down the gov't to defund PP.
Oh shit anon; this is gold! I mean you're both already on Grindr, down in the pit, and having a conservative position is the dealbreaker? (No offence to you Grindr users.)
>Repeal non discrimination laws
How can this be sold without people thinking us racist, sexist, homophobic or transphobic?
>>5349071
>actively working to discriminate against you
I believe private individuals and firms have the right to discriminate. If they lose revenue it's on them. Furthermore in the example i listed, bar owners discriminate against hiring straight males as bartenders because they tend to be liabilities.
>muh fredum marketz
Regulatory capture should be destroyed where found, any private service sucking from public teet audited, government contracts and contractors reviewed for conflict of interest.
But generally freer markers produce a better results.
>Gun nuts
a. Shall not be infringed
b. Homicides by firearms pale in comparison to other objects despite their being a better multiplier of force
c. Mass shootings by semi-automatic firearms are anomalous
>Christian version of ISIS
Strong words. I need to look up what percentage of Republican Christians are baptist and/or evangelical, and it's probably the largest bloc, but the typical Christian still moderate.
>anti-SJW
Y-you're trolling? I fell for it? What a fool am I.
>opposes any government outside of fascism
You mean militarism, an increased national security state, "family values"/abortion & corporate protections? I sadly concede.
holy shit you're disgusting. how is it difficult to understand that people should have basic rights to personal autonomy and safety without having to accomplish anything to prove they deserve basic dignity? republicans as a whole are violent extremists nowadays, either through direct violence or through condoning others' violence. being an extremist, especially one who serves white supremacy, kyriarchy, or capitalism, really isn't acceptable in a healthy society.
>>5350702
>b. Homicides by firearms pale in comparison to other objects despite their being a better multiplier of force
What's that even supposed to mean? That most homicides are committed without firearms? I don't really see what relevance that would have to the gun control debate.
>>5349083
> "yes pls shoot me and beat me up."
Nothing would make assault or murder legal.
This would mean that private individuals and employers can do what they want with their own bodies, monies, and businesses.
>>5349099
Now let's hold on a second. I don't hate transgender people, but it seems to be that that those exhibiting gender dysphoria are further apart and fewer in between than the media is making it seem. It could be wise for the LGB to take a hard but accepting look at the T, and ask if everything is alright.
>>5349170
Hiya there! I didn't come to specifically look for any debate, nor to get a hugbox around me either. I just wanted to see if views existed outside the LGBT norm.
Just to see where you're coming from:
Are you a proponent of critical theory?
Are you a proponent of intersectionality as a model for looking at group relations, specifically regarding gender and orientation?
Do you propose some sort of state sanctioned 'compensation' for certain groups for past or current perceived oppression?
Do you want to violently take the means of production from capital holders?
>5349308
>A fetus is not a person
Ah now here's the rub. What constitutes person-hood? On a practical basis I support abortion, but on a philosophical basis found myself in the same hold Christopher Hitchens did- because from day to day it's hard to demarcate when fetushood ends and personhood begins.
>non discrimination exists because of market failure
The market punishes discriminators harshly. Those that hold out do so at their own expense. The Orthodox Jews of Central and Eastern Europe actually used ethnic discrimination of trade and commerce to their advantage, and even in multicultural and globalist societies formed self sustaining and localized economies that were fairly recession proof, slowly gaining entry into certain sectors- banking, jewelry, shipping, law- until they could sustain themselves.
>>5349308
2/2
I need to find the works by an African American sociologist who argued that forced integration left POC behind, because they were now forced to compete against whites who had centuries worth of wealth skills and connections compared to them, where parity would have otherwise arose organically
>Federal reserve
I'm not that guy;but I think that so long the US government has a monopoly on government supply, it needs a central body to play a balancing act with the primary credit and bond markets. However a look at Alan Grayson's house speeches would let you know that corruption fouls up the FOMC at the expense of the taxpayer.
I'm no economist, but economists of various schools place partial blame on the Fed for the S+L crisis,stagflation, the tech bubble, and the housing boom.
>Medicare/social security
Again I'm not that guy, but the SS age may need to be raised in the near future for sustainability, while medicare and the pentagon are extremely bloated. IMO we could open the interstate and even international insurance market like we did when the US broke up the Bell telecom monopoly.
>Somalia
Poor strawman.
If Tito took over Somalia, it would still be Somalia. If Reagan took over Somalia, it would still be Somalia.
Countries at the top of the Economic Freedom index aren't exactly Somalia either.
>>5349319
>Religious bullshit
Even most in the medical and psychological community consider gender dysphoria as part of the DSM. Thing is, most promote- after a full medical and psychological checkup and consultation- HRT.
>>5349355
>No society has ever existed without taxes
1. This argument is bunk, because you can replace taxes with [X] (say, assassination of citizens without due process).
2. That anon may be an an-cap, but I am not. I think that market failures are few and far apart, and tax money should mainly cover nonrivalrous nonexcludable goods and services.
>>5349383
>A weak federal government=anarchist
So they're ancaps?
There doesn't seem to many capitalist institutions in Somalia, private property not exactly fixed and respected, not too much investment.
I know, maybe they're anarcho syndicalists!
Well it doesn't seem to be a ripe ground for self sustaining communes either.
Aha! These Somalis can't fool me. They're anarchists without adjectives!
Except I don't see them reading in political philosophy circles either..
Can't we just let Somalia go and call it what it is: a nation in constant civil war with the UN, the regime, warlords and Islamists vying for power?
>>5349398
>Most nations have a mixed economy
>More socialism in the mix is always good
SNAP, WIC, section 8 and that entire cohort of welfare programs which typically subsidize underprivileged single motherhood can all be simplified by wiping them away and increasing the EITC, people doing with the money as they see fit. If they choose not to use it for food, housing, and baby formula, then the State can step in and take the kids and leave the adults to fend for themselves. If we are to have a welfare system, at least it could be simplified.
>>5349438
>Federal laws brought an end to Jim Crow
Barry Goldwater as governor of Arizona led the charge for a state by state approach to ending Jim Crow- he was really effective at it and his approach was slowly starting to spread to other states. Jim Crow was already on its way out and many states were finding the sytem clunky and uneconomical ("Yeah sure, building two separate fountains and deploying our cops to enforce the divide. Fuck off lets free up the state's resources for more important things."
He rejected the 64 Federal Civil Rights bill and was vilified by hippies as a Nazi.
>Wallace
Wallace ended up being hated, and the state of Alabama through the 10th Amendment retained some sovereignty.
>Other points
I won't touch at this time
>>5349464
Not all "free marketers" take it that far. We're not all Rothbard. Most of us think
>there should be as little barriers to ownership and utilization of resources to the extent it doesn't infringe on the lives, limbs, or property rights of others, and to the extent market failures do not arise.
> Libertarian society would mean LGBT people would be executed and killed by religious fascists.
I wasn't aware this is what happened in Goldwater Arizona. Or New Hampshire. Or Singapore.
And even if we removed allegiance to government, people still have other allegiances they fall back on besides religion, which has been waning in popularity and strength. Civil society in the US is incredibly strong.
>>5349476
Everyone from Friedman and Schwartz to Krugman and Bernanke agree that is was caused when the Fed restricted the money supply artificially in a way that did not match the flow of resources in the real economy.
Not even MMTs like Kelton use the "lower tax rate led to speculation led to a boom led to a bust" argument
>>5349578
> US healthcare system is the WORST IN THE ENTIRE PLANET
It depends who you are and what you have.
In Canada, medicine is socialized.
>Be the Canadian government
>I want to provide medical /surgical care, pharmaceuticals, and patient checkups to citizens funded by taxpayers
Okay, I am a private citizen with means. That government system seems log jammed,as there is little prioritization going on where usually price signals provide them, so in the same way price controls reduce traffic congestion, I will pay my own way for medical care, pharmaceuticals, etc
>He is diverting resources away from the pool, just because he has money! Ok, we are single payer. All other payers- private institutions, insurance companies, etc, are banned.
Ok, so now there is one pool, no other pools. This one pool has a fairly unitary budget, and people of various conditions are incentivized to clog it up because they don't pay out of pocket. Wait times are increased. All is well- but I have Cancer all of a sudden
>Please wait your turn for checkup-treatment
Bugger, can I speed this up? I can pay this doc privately..
>That is not allowed
Then I can get insurance that can deal with you on my behalg
>That is not allowed
Then I will go pay privately in the US for expedited care
Also, the US healthcare system is not that bad. It's disproportionately clogged up by preventable diseases stemming from drinking, smoking, obesity and drug use- which isn't that common in Scandinavian nations. These people need a disincentive from using a public service at taxpayer expense
>>5349824
Corporate "personhood" i agree came from a poor series of definitions, but in essence it was to ensure the firms enjoyed property rights, limited liability, and greater ability to expand and operate in domestic and world markets.
>>5349828
>>5349828
>Secular talk
herp derp this conservative did a bad thing
>The Young Turks
slightly better, but herp derp, this conservative policy is laughable
At least post smarter liberals like Sam Seder
(He actually has the balls to support MMT and can argue that X or Y is a market failure, and that such and such social program would be beneficial, can cite think tank white papers and academic studies)
or get right down to the real deal analysts like Chomsky and Zizek, and news providers like Democracy Now. TheRealNews provides some okay synthesis.
>>5350720
> people should have basic rights to personal autonomy and safety without having to accomplish anything to prove they deserve basic dignity?
I agree- state-provided food, water, shelter exist in moderate amounts. However the American system provides a means for most people to accumulate enough wealth to get these things for themselves, even if at a taxpayer subsidy. Most conservatives want to reduce the welfare state, not eliminate it.
>violent extremist
Citation needed
>By association
Discarded
>White supremacy
"White identity" is a third rail, and most conservatives fear touching it.
>Capitalism
Please expound
>>5350724
> I don't really see what relevance that would have to the gun control debate.
>Be a gun control advocate
>Firearms kill so many!
>Realize that hammers kill more
>Backpeddle or propose licencing and restriction of hammers to maintain logical consistency
>>5351111
>However the American system provides a means for most people to accumulate enough wealth to get these things for themselves, even if at a taxpayer subsidy.
it's both hilarious and frightening that you really think this.
>>violent extremist
>Citation needed
have you been paying attention to the perpetrators of two out of the three most recent shootings on the news? or donald trump and the behavior of his supporters which he encourages & tries to preserve?
>>By association
>Discarded
if you don't separate yourself from the extremists, you are condoning their behavior. when the author and vlogger john green continues doing collaborative videos with people he knows to be abusers, only privately warning some friends to be cautious around them, and introducing his fans to them without warning, he is enabling their abuse. the same is true of people who share many opinions with the planned parenthood shooter, or any high-profile terrorist. obviously not everyone who shares an entire religion needs to explain themselves, but if they're both in a small sect that has a political ideology attached, they better explain how they're different from them.
>>White supremacy
>"White identity" is a third rail, and most conservatives fear touching it.
donald trump sure doesn't. and plenty of others use all the right weasel words to talk about it without outright saying it
>>Capitalism
>Please expound
capitalism hurts everyone who isn't either born into plenty of resources or is extremely cunning and lucky. now that we're reaching the possibility of a resource-based economy and extremely reduced amounts of necessary labor, people who profit from capitalism as it is create artificial scarcity and artificial work just so it can perpetuate itself for a little longer. it's not healthy at all.
>>5351111
>>Be a gun control advocate
>>Firearms kill so many!
>>Realize that hammers kill more
>>Backpeddle or propose licencing and restriction of hammers to maintain logical consistency
Hammers have plenty of practical uses that don't involve killing. Only if they do more harm than good should be banned. The same logic applies to guns - it doesn't matter if they represent only a small fraction of deaths, if they clearly do more harm than good the rational thing to do is to ban them.
Jumping off of bridges may represent only a small fraction of deaths, but that doesn't mean it's something we should support.
>>5350988
>I wasn't aware this is what happened in Goldwater Arizona. Or New Hampshire. Or Singapore.
Those aren't true libertarian societies. Libertarian society would mean zero law enforcement.
>>5349071
God they're so cute when they're pouty...
If it's down to Hillary V. Trump, I vote Trump.
t. bifag
>>5351363
>Libertarian society would mean zero law enforcement
LOL
https://mises.org/library/production-security-0
>>5351394
why? both would act as imperialists overseas, but at least hillary wouldn't start an american holocaust within our own borders or completely tank our economy within the first year in office.
>does anyone else on this board find it a hard pill to gulp down to support the "Right Wing" party?
Yes.
I can understand a debate on government size and taxes, but many republicans DON'T want small government or reduced spending.
They still want to spend MORE on defense, and they want to destroy the wall of separation between church and state.
>did anyone alienate their LGBT friends with their political persuasion?
Most LGBT people I know are also democratic socialist types, so no
>Taking LGBT issues out of the equation, why do you support the party you support?
I want infrastructure rebuilding, alternative energy and a reduction of wealth inequality
>What typical "pro LGBT ra ra rally the troops" issues are you on the other side of?
Not really any.
>>5351421
>but at least hillary wouldn't... completely tank our economy within the first year in office.
>>5351421
>but at least hillary wouldn't start an american holocaust
Why do people think this? What kind of delusional world do they live in where the president of the US can just decide to round people up and slaughter them? Even Trump isn't dumb enough to believe he could do this
>>5345974
>does anyone else on this board find it a hard pill to gulp down to support the "Right Wing" party?
I would never support the republican party in the US as it stands. Libertarian party in the US is a joke.
>did anyone alienate their LGBT friends with their political persuasion?
No
>Taking LGBT issues out of the equation, why do you support the party you support?
lesser of two evils but still I disagree with both parties on most issues
>What typical "pro LGBT ra ra rally the troops" issues are you on the other side of?
non-binary tumblrina bullshit
safe spaces
the progressive stack
asexual rights (literally what the fuck)
third bathroom nonsense
>>5346173
>but now it's somehow 'extra super duper' illegal to hit someone in the jaw for no reason yelling 'faggot'
our entire justice system revolves around deterrence. A random assault does not require the same level of deterrence as one motivated by hatred of a particular group.
>>5351646
she wouldn't, though. she is not particularly reluctant to delegate work she is bad at. her presidency would just be the latest power grab for her, but she wants continued political power and is reasonable enough to realize that ruining an entire nation is a bad way to maintain power.
>>5351668
it would take a bit of work to reach the mass murder part, but trump wouldn't need to rely on his presidential power alone to get that done. there's plenty of both terrified, gullible people and white supremacists/fundamentalist christians who want to start a war for their ideology who can work together to get the job done.
>>5351770
why are you against those things? besides "the progressive stack," where i don't know what you mean, all of those have pretty reasonable supporting arguments
>>5351804
I assume by progressive stack he means shit like people's voices being worth more if they're from a minority group. Sort of like how in the Occupy Movement shit got to the point where if you were a white straight male, your opinions were no longer wanted and you were told to sit down, shut up, and let other groups do all the talking.
Either that or referring to the oppression olympics.
>>5351804
>non-binary tumblrina bullshit
It reduces the transgender community to a fad that people can opt-in and opt-out of at will. There is no such thing as a fucking "polygender foxkin."
>safe spaces
Discourages discussion, eliminates free speech that would be categorized "unsafe," and reduces the quality of American universities.
>progressive stack
Because it is absurd to evaluate an argument, position, or ability to contribute to a discussion on the basis of the person's race, sex, sexuality, etc.
>asexual rights
What rights are asexuals lacking? Any existing problem would be the same faced by a L G B or T person so it is more likely that this movement is the result of the 'im straight but i want to feel oppressed today' crowd.
> third bathroom
Completely economically unreasonable. Forcing each and every business to make such a massive change that would cost hundreds of millions of dollars just to accommodate an extreme minority is ridiculous.
>by carrying my AR-15 around into Qdoba I'm protecting your freedom to say that, I've stopped ten potential mass shootings a day just with my concealed-carry alone, every man woman and child must uphold and exercise their second amendment rights at all times day or night or they're un-American Obama-loving traitors who need to be rounded up and shot, look at how big my dick is
Let's be honest, this shit is -just- as fucking irritating and as cult-like as anything Tumblr has produced
>>5351854
otherkin is not a nonbinary identity, and some nonbinary people do have dysphoria. expanding the definition of trans to include situations not considered before isn't what is making transness a fad; that's the tumblr types who associate being oppressed with being virtuous and being cis with being a disgusting abuser.
safe spaces are just that: specific spaces. people choose to enter them knowing the rules they entail, and if you want to say hurtful things you can simply say them outside the safe space. also pretty much none of them are government enforced, and many actively resist government control, so free speech isn't actually relevant. students being able to better process trauma and reduce their anxiety certainly isn't going to reduce the quality of university schooling, and being given more information before deciding whether one is safe listening to/participating in discussion of frequently traumatic topics makes entire classes more accessible to students with ptsd and other related mental health issues.
the marginalization lgbt people experience isn't something any group deserves to have to go through. asexuals usually have an easier time than us, but they still deserve basic rights.
most small businesses have single-stall bathrooms that could be made gender neutral with a simple sign change. my city mandated that single-stall restrooms all be gender neutral and the results have been amazing for trans people, especially those who are visibly trans. and it didn't cost any businesses more than a few dollars to change.
>>5351922
The problem with "safe spaces" isn't the spaces in and of themselves, it's the recent trend of trying to turn entire campuses into "safe spaces".
>>5351922
>asexuals usually have an easier time than us, but they still deserve basic rights.
...They already have basic rights. What rights do they not already possess?
>>5351941
that's impossible and impractical, but if by creating campus-wide safe spaces you just mean having professors include content warnings in their syllabi, that much is perfectly reasonable.
>>5351949
some of them face corrective rape by romantic partners if they realize they're asexual during a relationship, and also unnecessary and sometimes harmful medical interventions by doctors who believe that lack of attraction is something that must be fixed even if it doesn't cause a person any problems. more acceptance of the existence & validity of asexuality could help with both these issues.
>>5351986
Neither of those examples involve lacking rights, they involve severe misunderstandings and possibly malpractice. And in the first example, rape is still fucking illegal even if the victim is asexual. Sure, spread awareness, but asexuals do not lack any fundamental human rights.
>>5351922
>being given more information before deciding whether one is safe listening to/participating in discussion of frequently traumatic topics makes entire classes more accessible to students with ptsd and other related mental health issues.
This is true if your someone who has experienced extreme trauma such as having your friend's body parts rain all over you after having stepped on an IED. Or if your a woman who has experienced a violent rape.
It isn't valid though if your some sheltered upper middle class twat whose greatest trauma is to be told that you aren't entitled to special rights for being melanin enriched or having people disagree with you.
>>5350702
>I believe private individuals and firms have the right to discriminate.
There is no reason I should be fired or denied services in 2015 AD because of my sexual orientation. Have you seen the unemployment rate for transsexuals, especially transsexual people of color? It's off the fucking charts because employees can discriminated against them.
You look at "rights" as in the "rights" of the employer. The right to what I say? The right to exploit the worker.
>a. Shall not be infringed
I couldn't bother to give a fuck about a document produced in 1791. It's an old useless document that has not bearing on modern society. Time to ban all guns and become a civilized nation like EVERY OTHER DEVELOPED NATION!
>Strong words. I need to look up what percentage of Republican Christians are baptist and/or evangelical, and it's probably the largest bloc, but the typical Christian still moderate.
Typical Christian is moderate, however the GOP is not the typical Christian. I already pointed out they are far right wing creationists, who believe climate change is a hoax, think being gay is a choice, hate anyone who isn't a straight white cisgendered male!
>>5350795
>Nothing would make assault or murder legal.
You oppose hate crimes and think the federal government is evil. That's literally a death wish for minorities and LGBTs.
>This would mean that private individuals and employers can do what they want with their own bodies, monies, and businesses.
Again you have a warped view of "freedom". I'm a supporter of workers control of production and bringing and end to wage slavery. You seem to be advocating for neo-fedualism and Jim Crow.
>I don't hate transgender people, but
>but
>BUT
Trash
>Are you a proponent of critical theory?
Yes
>Are you a proponent of intersectionality as a model for looking at group relations, specifically regarding gender and orientation?
Yes. One such example of people of color in trans community that black lives matter has pushed to the fore front in their quest for equality.
>Do you propose some sort of state sanctioned 'compensation' for certain groups for past or current perceived oppression?
Yes. I believe all minorities, LGBTs, and women should receive reparations for centuries of oppression under straight cisgendered white males.
>Do you want to violently take the means of production from capital holders?
Yes
>>5348304
>aid
You mean bombs and weapons to Israel and Saudi Arabia?
>>5351401
I've spoken to libertarians who say government is anything that imposes its will by violence, and that in a libertarian society there is no government. By those definitions, there can be no law enforcement in a libertarian society.
>>5351770
>asexual rights (literally what the fuck)
Asexuals aren't even really pushing for "rights", except maybe in really backwards third world country where husbands can kill their wives for not having sex with them or whatever. It's really more about awareness.
>third bathroom nonsense
This is really probably the best solution to the transgender bathroom issue. We wouldn't need to have them everywhere, but maybe start at like 10% of bathrooms in public places being unisex would be a good place to start. It's the arrangement that's least likely to offend anybody.
>>5352663
>I couldn't bother to give a fuck about a document produced in 1791. It's an old useless document that has not bearing on modern society. Time to ban all guns and become a civilized nation like EVERY OTHER DEVELOPED NATION!
It's the foundation of our system of laws so we shouldn't throw it away without serious thought, however the right to bear arms originally applied to the militia, regardless of what people say it means now. The right to bear arms should exist, but treating it like some sacred thing is just silly. The "but we need guns to protect ourselves from the government" doesn't make sense unless you could also have tanks and missile launchers (which WOULD make sense as part of an independent militia), and if you're having to defend yourself against the government, it's not like you're going to be worried about following laws anyway.
>>5353151
>It's the foundation of our system of laws so we shouldn't throw it away without serious thought,
What we need a modern constitution for the 21st century. We have the oldest constitution on earth and guess what it's fucking outdated. Hardest to amend on earth, only country were the popular vote doesn't elect the head of state, gerrymandering controlled by state legislatures, "state's rights" bullshit, etc.
We need a modern constitution covering protects for women, minorities, LGBTQ people, etc. One that grants that healthcare is a right, that education is a right, that refugee status is a right, that a women's right to choose is a right, that bans all guns, etc.
>>5352597
guess what, brains aren't all made identical. the extent of trauma is not based entirely on outside events but also on one's brain's reaction to those events. some people can get through a genocide with barely any trauma, others (especially ones with mental illnesses like bpd) can be seriously fucked up by limited emotional abuse.
and a lot of "upper middle class" people, like the population as a whole, have experienced rape and abuse, many more than people who deride content warnings seem to think. this idea that the people who want content warnings in syllabi are all entitled children with no problems is completely untrue - many of the ones who don't have trauma are not asking for these warnings for themselves, but for the people who need them. giving people the personal autonomy to decide whether they want to experience certain content is a basic sign of respect already given at the beginning of movies and the backs of video game cases. also this idea that people of color don't experience uniquely high levels of trauma is extremely uninformed considering all the police violence against them that has finally been brought to the forefront of political discussions. certain police forces make it their job to terrify black, arab and some asian communities, and that leaves scars. having experiential knowledge that you could easily die just for being rude or asserting your rights is traumatizing, believe it or not. (of course some poor or otherwise "inferior" white communities are terrorized in the same way, i'm not denying that)
>>5352189
while asexuals aren't less likely to get legal protection after rape due to their asexuality, rape victims, especially those raped by their partners, still have a lot of trouble getting legal protection in general. and doctors intervening with unnecessary, unwanted medications that cause problems rather than solving any is another issue not unique to asexuals. but both situations could be lessened if there was more general awareness of asexuality as a valid orientation. they do need to be tackled in general as well - non-asexual potential victims of rape or doctor malpractice deserve to not have to go through these things as well, of course - but raising awareness of asexuality is relatively simple solution that will help somewhat. there's no reason not to let it continue.
>>5346788
This.
It'll be Slick Willie part 2
>>5353151
>however the right to bear arms originally applied to the militia
You should probably study the 2nd Amendment more, because no, that is not what it means.
>>5354808
>You should probably study the 2nd Amendment more, because no, that is not what it means.
That's not what it means the average person reading it today, but that is the original intention and meaning of the amendment. And it's the only interpretation that really makes sense anyway.
>>5354865
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/second_amendment
>>5354971
That merely discusses the interpretation of the second amendment by the courts, not its original intention. And it doesn't even mention any legitimate existence of the individual rights interpretation prior to 2008.
>As soon as Republicans stop being sperglords about social issues, I'll love for them.
>lolno I never talk about politics
>I consider myself independent and usually try to vote for the least retarded candidate.
>I don't even know the current LGBT issues now that marriage is a thing
Whenever I tell people I am a gay republican they look at me funny. Everyone assumes republicans hate gays when it is in fact the opposite.
>>5355330
So republicans love gays?
>>5355402
all my republican friends / and republicans I know dont hate gays. they are extremely accepting people
>>5355415
>Rand Paul
Pro drones
Pro indefinite detention
Pro borders
Pro banning abortion
Pro hates LGBT people
Pro religious
Pro TPP
>>5355425
>love guns.
There is no reason you should own a gun in 2015 AD.
You worship death, I worship life. FUCK YOU
