I use a trans person's preferred name, but I use gender neutral pronouns such as they/their/they're instead of gender-specific pronouns. I believe gender-specific pronouns should be reserved for people of the actual sex, not just what someone wants to be/tries to be.
What does /lgbt/ do when it comes to pronoun usage?
The same as you.
>>5326444
im mtf and not passing, i prefer people call me she but i cant really get mad at people for not doing it. so while i prefer she i dont really care yet.
I identify as a pi-sexual. My gender is the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter.
My pronouns are as follows.
They = (list 3 digits of pi)
Their = (list 9 digits of pi)
They're = (list 81 digits of pi)
>>5326444
OP what if someone 100% passes as the gender they're trying to be? Are you gonna be calling cis girls for he until they prove they're cis too?
>>5326444
Why?
>>5326464
They don't need to prove they are cis because everyone can fucking see that they are, that's why we call women "she" and trannies "it".
>>5326470
You don't understand what I mean with 100% passing do you?
>>5326464
>OP what if someone 100% passes as the gender they're trying to be?
They they correctly deceived everyone.
Let's hope they don't complain when the guy they bring back to their room beats the snot out of them once they find a hidden surprise in their drawers.
>>5326464
I don't think you understood what OP meant. He'll call a trans person by their preferred pronouns, but refer to that person as they/their/them. Not to their face.
>>5326483
or that their plastic pussy isn't behaving like it should
>>5326483
You realize being trans is not about deceiving anybody right? It's just about feeling better with your own body & becoming the person you want to be. Believe what you want, but you'll always be the bigot here.
The scenario you're speaking of, rarely ever happens. If you really think it does, you're a huge fucking retard.
>>5326487
i misunderstood, yes, but my question is then, would he call all cis people for they until they prove they're cis? :v
>>5326495
>becoming the person you want to be
You can't really become anything except a crossdresser on hormones. And that is not a woman.
>bigot
Yeah, it was a tumblrist. How about you fuck off back there.
>>5326498
Lol.
Do you need me to teach you about the Dunning Kruger effect? You can believe what you want though, like I said, but you'll always be misinformed, spouting falsities, and your lack of empathy makes you disgusting as a person.
I've never gone to tumblr so I'm not sure what I'd be going back to.
>>5326509
Being a leftist degenerate who puts things up their ass is just a tad bit more disgusting than an irate man who doesn't like faggots.
>>5326519
I've never put things in my butt, and I never would want that either.
I don't even know what you mean with leftist, I don't give a shit about politics, why are you bringing politics in this?
if I forget/dunno someone's identity I use neutral pronouns but I haven't really "drawn lines"
>>5326444
If someone requests a pronoun like "he" or "her" I use it whenever I'm referring to them, even when they're not a part of a conversation.
My lines are:
-I kind of unintentionally don't do pronouns like "xi," "shi," and "xir." Simply because I can't keep track of them, and they're too varied to always say correctly. So I just use "they" and "them" instead for convenience sake.
-My huge line I never cross to the point that it's a hill a friendship has died upon is whenever people insist I use a pronoun to describe someone that the person didn't request or self identify as.
e.g. A trans girl I knew identified as she, a gender fluid at the time friend insisted I refer to the trans woman as "Ze and Zer," because my trans friend wasn't a "true woman," "still had male privilege." When I wasn't willing to accept the no true Scotsman tumblr-ite bullshit they were shoveling about how trans people need their own specific labels, so I should intentionally miss label my trans friend that felt most comfortable being called she as something weird I had never heard of. The gender fluid no longer friend chimped out. Before they left in a huff they said I was being, "a transphobic misogynist SJW." I'd have said something like, "those words don't go together" but I was still in damage control mode.
>>5326444
>Where do you draw the line on pronouns?
If someone looks male, call them male
if someone looks female, call them female
that's all
>>5326444
so you're referring to them as their preferred gender but only when they're around ?
damn you have no spine and no balls
>>5326444
If they ask I do it. Otherwise I call em as I see em.
>>5326717
Fuck, that's a bizarre combination of bigotry there. Willing to use weird neopronouns and nonbinary genders, but still has bullshit radfem gender politics...that's kind of worse than plain old transphobia
>>5326444
>>5326444
MTF here.
To be honest, i don't really give a shit. The only people that would ever really call me a 'boy' would be my family, who knew me as such for years, literally as long as I have lived, so I cant blame them for not suddenly calling me a girl. If the public that don't know me call me a boy, it just means I don't pass well enough. Altogether, id like to be called a girl, but it doesn't really matter to me. I know what I am.
>>5326717
I think you're a pretty decent person.
Personally I think all the weird pronouns are people just trying to be snowflakes when they don't have to be.
Like, I'm no psychologist so grain of salt, but personally unless someone has actively hated and tried to refuse and dispute how they are, either by a MtF trying to act manly, or a FtM trying to act girly, and then hit a wall where they realized that they can't change that no matter what... UNLESS someone experiences that kind of refusal to accept the condition out of skepticism, I don't think it's valid.
And with people using made up pronouns.. I just have to wonder if any of those people even struggled to just go about their own business? It doesn't seem like a very sane way for someone to just decide "yeah I think I'm a tri-gender pyrofrox and want to be called xi/shi/xir." Like.. it just seems like they want to draw extra attention to themselves and they feel like they get some kind of benefit out of labelling themselves like that.
Being trans, dysphoria is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. Not hitler, not stalin, not any of the people who've hurt me. But I don't think jumping to the conclusion you're trans is healthy just because you played with a barbie once, just like I don't think jumping to the conclusion you're a pan-gender xi/shi/xir because you think you're a spirit animal is valid. I don't think it's right to say someone has to suffer for it to be valid, but I don't think it's wrong to say that if you didn't experience suffering in discovering something like that about yourself, it's just wanting to be a special goddamn snowflake.
I know some people will disagree and be tumblrinas, but I think people should be skeptical and try to disprove things about themselves as a means of a test. 99% of people I've talked to who use weird labels claim they've always known and accepted this about themselves and never challenged the idea. If you never challenge an idea, it's not worth having.
Question from a non-native English speaker:
How do you conjugate the verb while using singular they? They walks or they walk?
>>5326880
they walk
I use whatever pronoun I normally would until I'm told otherwise. Because I know tons of androgynous chicks who still identify as female, but look fairly boyish. So I don't just assume anyone is trans unless otherwise specified
I use the birth-sex pronouns.
>>5326880
they be walkin
>>5327128
No you fucking dont, you use whatever the person looks like to you. Unless you are really saying you demand to see a birth certificate before using a pronoun.
Whatever pronouns they want. I've known total hons who barely look like women at all and I still use female pronouns for them. It's just not a big deal to me
I draw the line at xe stuff though. Fuck you, if you want to be a snowflake then whatever but just use "they".
Ill definitely use he/she/they to someones preference, basic mtf and ftm trans stuff I respect. Some of the loopy ones people come up with I might not be keen on using but Ive never been in a real life situation where its come up. If theyre nice Id probably use whatever xey want haha
>>5326444
Where the brain draws the line.
What they recognize as that is supported by neuroscience.
None of this gender fluid parallelogramkin bull shit.
He/she based on what they look to me, defaulting to he on everyone online. If they want me to use the other pronoun then fine, I'll use she/he, not a big deal.
I draw the line on they/xir/ze and whatever special snowflake shit there is out there.
>>5327625
I love how you all deal with these stupid hecklers. So glad I found this place
/lbbt/> tumblr
>>5326444
>Autist demanding the world ban medical alterations
>proud of no social intelligence
Yawn
>>5326444
>I use gender neutral pronouns such as they/their/they're instead of gender-specific pronouns
you're a fucking cunt
>>5327731
Doesn't really work in my language.
>>5326498
Damn why are you so mean. I am fucking Muslim and even less hating towards trans than you, if someone hates their body they change it however they want. And soms sex changes look good. One Turkish celeb went from female to man and hè looks good now. It inspired me toch come here and learn more. Why would you talk so mean about people who are different from you?
>>5326458
Kek'd
>>5326498
kys ugly
>>5326444
Rate my facial aesthetics please. Also add me on Facebook :) Name is Mark Harold Mixon
I'll use he/she or interchange either with they. In an enviroment with no indication of gender or if the gender appears ambiguous I'll default to they so I don't cause offence.
I'm fairly cool with non-binary in terms of gender being a sliding scale with male at one end female at the other, and anyone can be somewhere along that scale, but tumblr snowflake bullshit can fuck right off
>>5326444
I tend to use 'they' for everyone, alternatively using 'he' or 'she' for people who identify primarily as male or female respectively, regardless of whether they're cis or trans. I don't really get nounself pronouns, while I understand the possibility of someone having an androgynous gender identity I don't get how someone can identify as a tree or whatever. I would think that 'he', 'she', and 'they' are sufficient to cover all genders.
>>5326444
I believe in common sense and courtesy, but that's a SJW PC thing and should be frowned upon
>>5326483
>Let's hope they don't complain when the guy they bring back to their room beats the snot out of them once they find a hidden surprise in their drawers.
So you're allowed to physically harm someone because they deceived you and wasted a few hours of your time?
>>5327731
Because it's a honorative pronoun or used to refer to a group of people. It gives off entitled and smug vibe if you demand others to refer to you by a honorative. I know that transsexualism is a real thing and that using the desired pronouns helps with their dysphoria. Agenderism as far as I know is just a special snowflake thing for people that try to break the norms for the sake of breaking the norms and demanding special treatment.
>>5328140
IIRC not in my state. The Gay/Trans panic defense was banned in California in 2014. So now people can't get out of an assault charge just by crying about how much of a bigot they are.
>>5328155
>honorative
What the hell do you mean by that? The reason people ask for it is because it's gender neutral, and it's been used for a singular person of unknown gender since Shakespeare's time. It's not an honor or anything.
>>5326444
I assume everyone is either trans or pre-trans so for the latter I use the opposite pronoun that they present as.
I use preferred names and try to use preferred pronouns (assuming the pronouns preferred are either he, she, or they pronouns... none of that zir hir bullshit). But if you're mtf and you don't pass chances are I'm still gonna use male pronouns.. same for ftms and people who claim to be nonbinary or shit like that
As for myself, I'm not actively transitioning yet (family issues) and I'm not partial to any pronouns. I generally just tell people to use for what they see.
>>5327355
Yes, I do.
>>5328195
Well english isn't my first language but I've never seen it used in normal interaction as anything but honorative, referring to a group or referring to an unknown entity. And like I said I don't have any reason to believe agender is a thing beyond snowflakey shit.
>>5326495
>>5326523
>>5326509
take your shit posting else where k thx :)
>>5329023
>"Well english isn't my first language but I've never seen it used in normal interaction as anything but honorative,"
Just stop, in all likelihood you're arguing with native English speakers. "They" and "them" aren't honorative pronouns, and they're constantly used in casual interactions. "They" is one of the few gender neutral pronouns available in the English language. The pronouns you're complaining about are only the slightest step above pejorative pronouns like "y'all," "guy," "chic," and "dude.".
An honorative English pronoun would be something like "sir," "lady," "ma'am," "ladies," or "gentlemen."
If they pass, I refer to them by their chosen name and pronouns. If they don't, I call them by their birth names (should I know their birth ames, that is) and birth genders.
I also intentionally misgender tumblrinas because I find it amusing.
>>5326487
If that's what OP means, then I feel they are some sort of disrespectful coward.
>>5330677
epic, simply epic
>>5326444
I use he/him, she/her, and they/them whenever people ask for them. I try my hardest to cater to snowflake pronouns when online to prevent conflict, but if they get pissed at me for accidentally using 'they', that's when I stop giving all fucks. Well, when I'm talking to their face anyway, if I'm talking /about/ them to someone, they get called a 'they'.
>>5330707
just fucking call a mtf 'he' and ftm 'she' then, you obviously don't respect them. don't fucking act like you're any better than someone who blatantly misgenders people.
I'll use whatever people want me to. I don't see a point in causing a fuss over a few syllables just to be contrarian.
>>5330720
Huh? I'm ftm, I don't have any reason to call ftms and mtfs by the wrong pronouns. Sorry, I probably could've worded my post better, I only meant that I called people using snowflake pronouns like xe/xim a 'they' in private, because it's tough to remember... is that rude too? Sorry if it is. I'll try my best to get better at this, but it might take some time...
I will use a person's preferred name and pronouns as memory allows. Where memory fails, I tend to fall back on singular "they".
Exception: if a person's pronouns exceed one syllable I'll also use singular they.
>>5330757
oh.. i completely misunderstood your post then. my bad
I use he or she based on a person's gender expression. They probably have people that they cared about completely shun them and/or using their birth pronouns on purpose; I have nothing to gain by calling them out.
I've never met a genderqueer or whatever so I never had to call somebody a they.
>>5327355
pretty easy tbH when 95% of mtfs/ftms hardly pass
>>5326444
You're just looking for a justification to your assholeness. It's clearly insulting for the trans person. Its basically the same as calling a black person "nigger" And pronouns are dependent on gender, not sex - why is it important what someone has in their pants? Why do you even call the person by name? You should be saying "hi, white-skinned green-eyed red-haired human!" because names aren't "real" and only species are, right?
>>5326444
I call it as I see it. If you don't pass, that's your problem.
>>5331080
says the same guy who'd argue later that transgirls will never be women. despite using girl pronouns
>>5331127
I can't even comprehend whatever the fuck you just typed at me. I have no desire to get to know every random person I come across in my day to day life personally, if you don't pass that's your problem, cry about it bitch I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it.
>>5330660
I still dont see the reasoning behind using a gender neutral pronoun, unless you want to feel special.
>>5331194
Because non-binary people don't feel like they are female, so they don't want female pronouns, and they don't feel male either, so they don't want male pronouns. They is the only reasonable option in English, it doesn't require someone to learn a whole new set of pronouns like xir and such. I'm not up for a debate about non-binary shit because I don't care that much, but if all they're asking is for you to call them they, I don't see why it's a big deal to do it.
>>5331257
And otherkin dont feel like he/she or they and want to be called xir instead. I much rather stay in the established binary than start pushing the boundaries unless there's some quantifiable benefit to pushing the boundary (ie. lowering transsexual suicide rates for even the non-passing individuals).
Maybe it's just that I haven't met a single person who wants to be called they/xir/whatever that I didn't despise for their other attention seeking behavior to begin with.
>>5331304
i mean, dysphoria does sometimes lead to suicide & using someone's chosen pronouns helps relieve that dysphoria while also showing some baseline respect. unless you're using "attention seeking" as a code phrase like some people do, there's plenty of nonbinary people who aren't attention seeking, and relying entirely on personal experience isn't healthy
>>5331257
>feel
>>5331194
I had people (mainly friends) use they pronouns for me when I was mid transition, because that way they didn't have feel shitty about misgendering me, but they also didn't have to out me whenever they talked about me. It was also safer than switching full over before I could pass.
>>5326444
I'll call people what they ask me to unless it's ridiculous, takes effort and constantly draws attention to their snowflake status, like zie, zir, etcetera.
If I misgender someone and they start screeching and attempting to shame me, I tell them to fuck off and eat shit.
But I've only misgendered someone once and it went like this:
>I actually prefer male pronouns; could you please use he/him/?
>Oh, yeah, sure. My mistake.
>>5331304
Different pronouns aren't actually an otherkin thing, so I don't get where you going with that. Seems like a classic slippery slope too, considering you didn't point out anything actually wrong with they/them just on their own.
>>5331504
Using they is comparable to using whatever other pronouns you want to come up with, if they is okay so is everything else by the same logic that we should respect anyones pronouns even without any actual quantifiable reason. Gonna stick to the binary for the sake of simplicity and consistency.
>>5331332
>and relying entirely on personal experience isn't healthy
Complete nonsense, your experiences with special pronouns aren't any more valid than mine.
>>5326444
The line is when society has to make a conscious effort to use the pronouns you'd like it to use.
If you look like a girl, society will naturally use "she".
I'm pretty tolerant of other peoples lifestyle choices but If they look like an unshaven dude in a dress then I'm probably not going to play their little name game.
On the other hand I have a tranny friend who likes to be called susan and I will but I don't call him a she because hes cool af. If you want to be treated like a girl then you better commit to the part otherwise whats the point?
Why /lgbt/ falls so hard for those threads?
>>5331535
Not really, because you already use singular they, its not asking you to learn something new like the other pronouns and it doesn't sound dumb like kitself or whatever. Basically, I see it as a catch all for anyone that wants something other than he or she and the lesser of two evils here.
>>5331576
Because it's a real thing that gets transgender folk treated like a joke, and a solid 90% of this board is made up of pure transgenders. So they wanna vent.
>>5326444
i use ehter him or her i think using they is pretty cringy
>>5331535
i'm not just speaking from my personal experience, though; it has been generally established that being seen as the preferred gender helps relieve dysphoria. also, while of course i don't have statistics on the actual percentage of nonbinary people who are "attention-seeking," there's enough of them who are in the public eye that i can show you clear examples of ones who are not. this is an incomplete list, but there's andrea/andrew gibson, jana hunter, yuhki kamatani, richard o'brien, rae spoon, and much less well-known but still with public identities, i know the webcomic authors melanie gillman (as the crow flies), dirk grundy (string theory) & aliza layne (demon street) are all nonbinary without drawing huge amounts of attention to it or trying to position themselves as being as unique as possible or whatever.
