Daily reminder your sex is the one you're born with and not the one you decide to be.
>>5288725
http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943
>These discoveries have pointed to a complex process of sex determination, in which the identity of the gonad emerges from a contest between two opposing networks of gene activity. Changes in the activity or amounts of molecules (such as WNT4) in the networks can tip the balance towards or away from the sex seemingly spelled out by the chromosomes. “It has been, in a sense, a philosophical change in our way of looking at sex; that it's a balance,” says Eric Vilain, a clinician and the director of the Center for Gender-Based Biology at the University of California, Los Angeles. “It's more of a systems-biology view of the world of sex.”
>According to some scientists, that balance can shift long after development is over. Studies in mice suggest that the gonad teeters between being male and female throughout life, its identity requiring constant maintenance. In 2009, researchers reported7 deactivating an ovarian gene called Foxl2 in adult female mice; they found that the granulosa cells that support the development of eggs transformed into Sertoli cells, which support sperm development. Two years later, a separate team showed8 the opposite: that inactivating a gene called Dmrt1 could turn adult testicular cells into ovarian ones. “That was the big shock, the fact that it was going on post-natally,” says Vincent Harley, a geneticist who studies gonad development at the MIMR-PHI Institute for Medical Research in Melbourne.
Daily reminder that just because you feel like a doctor doesn't mean you know better than the scientific consensus
>>5288747
Kindergarten Cop (1990)
>Boys have a penis, girls have a vagina.
>>5288747
>We physically altered the genes of mice
>Omg when you block one gene, the other one becomes more expressed!
>This means trannies are right, the genitals you are born with don't determine shit!
...Not that genitals determine much about you except that you are male, female, or intersex. Gender expression/roles/etc are all societal based anyway. Its gonna really suck for true transgender people when the gender binary gets smashed by genderqueer feminists and everyone tells them their dysphoria isn't real.
>>5288725
...And?
>>5288747
>if the sexes are equal, why are women more likely than men to develop certain diseases, and vice versa? The fact is that certain disorders affect men and women differently. Women, for instance, are more likely to develop autoimmune diseases like lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, while men are more likely to have autism. Yet, the reason behind these differences remains unclear.
“Since the late 1940s, differences in male and female manifestations of disease have been attributed to differences in circulating sex hormones,” Page says. “Maybe that’s not the whole story. What about these other genes on the sex chromosomes with no obvious role in sex differentiation? What if the genetic basis of sex differences in disease is staring us in the face?”
David’s compelling talk from TEDxBeaconStreet explores these important questions and unveils a novel approach to understanding the sex-based determinants of disease severity and susceptibility.
https://biology.mit.edu/people/david_page
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQcgD5DpVlQ
>>5288958
Sorry, this guy is a blowhard and an illiterate. His knowledge of the role of genetic material and mechanisms of genetic expression are stuck in the early 20th century.
>>5289357
>man working at MIT
>illiterate
>anon on cantonese sea urchin forum self-diagnosed mtf
>much more smarter than everyone
>>5288725
nipahh
>>5289359
I mean, that's reality. If you don't like it, kill yourself.
Fuck all this goalpost moving SJW buzzword ridden minefieldn of bullshit.
You want me to call you the opposite of whatever you were when you were a kid?
Sure if you're not being a dick about it.
And if you're cute, fuck it, let's cuddle.
But stop pretending like sex is some fucking guessing game.
>>5288725
Or to put in more accurately: daily reminder that despite your best attempts to become the other sex, you are still ugly and we'll treat you like shit anyway, so knock this faggotry off already.
>>5289379
you do know that you don't have to have dysphoria to be trans* right?
>>5288725
dont think so hunty
>>5289417
ebin memeing :DDD 9/11 simply eric :DDD
>>5288958
>citing non peer review information
>citing non peer review info they give the laypeople in ted
They're talking about the x homologoues on y
Copies of the genes that need double for dose dependence. Only reason they matter I'd that the Y some men have tends to have mutations in those x homologoues because the Y has a lower rate of recombination.
Absolutely nothing to do with sex or phenotype so long as you aren't a mutant for defective genes.
>>5288810
http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943
>These discoveries have pointed to a complex process of sex determination, in which the identity of the gonad emerges from a contest between two opposing networks of gene activity. Changes in the activity or amounts of molecules (such as WNT4) in the networks can tip the balance towards or away from the sex seemingly spelled out by the chromosomes. “It has been, in a sense, a philosophical change in our way of looking at sex; that it's a balance,” says Eric Vilain, a clinician and the director of the Center for Gender-Based Biology at the University of California, Los Angeles. “It's more of a systems-biology view of the world of sex.”
Nah Anon, everyone is subject to that sex determination system and expression is what makes phenotype.
>>5288958
Unlike this, not only do they say it's only relevant for a tiny portion of men with mutations in the x homologoues in y, but all the evidence the Cohenists have say those conditions are determined by hormonal expression.
u people just need jesus, homossexuality
is a mental illness
>>5291183
My family isn't religious, but one of the most prestigious private schools in my city is Episcopalian so my parents sent me there. I remember being shown something like that when I was a kid and I was massively confused because none of the things that "traumatized people into thinking they were gay" ever happened to me. No one had ever abused me and I had a good relationship with my family.
They told me I was turning away from God's love, my parents would be ashamed, disappointed and I was ruining my life, etc. etc. They promised not to tell my parents if I stopped having "inappropriate thoughts". It wound up screwing me up really bad. My grades suffered, it drove a wedge between me and my family, it alienated me from almost all my friends and it gave me all kinds of emotional issues.
When I finally broke down and told them and they both started crying. To my relief it was because they were upset that I thought they would hate me, that I thought I couldn't talk about it with them and because they felt bad because for sending me to a school that was treating me like that without them realizing it.
By the end of it, all three of us were bawling. It was late at night when all this happened, but at the end of it they took me to IHOP and my dad promised he'd withdraw me the next day and they'd transfer me somewhere else.
Every time I see shit like this I think of that night.
>>5291280
Sounds like you have great parents. Enjoy your thanksgiving, anon
>>5291280
probably just repressed the rape
>>5291305
Thanks. I hope you enjoy yours, too. (If your country celebrates it.)
They're pretty great and I feel really fortunate for things turning out the way that they did for me. I've heard so many "coming out" stories that ended badly.
>>5288747
>a research found out that like most things sex is a genetic expression that's based off various genes
>they found out that by taking the hormone therapy to a genetic level the individuals had deep changes related to sex
No shit sherlock, it's like saying that blue eyes don't come from only one gene and because of that saying that your green eye should be called blue.
>>5291442
Your eye color isn't maintained throughout life through a hormonally regulated process though. If you could take a hormone that changes your green eyes to blue one, then that would be different.
>>5291526
Points
>we don't know if those changes occur naturally, all the cases cited were purposely modified to test the genetic expression
>even now we're learning about what defines someone sex
>it's still about the genetic expression in general, which includes musculature, brain development, genitals and more.
>biological sex (male/female) are definitions of individuals with a certain group of characteristics
>those definitions are based on the average/normal individual not exceptions
The only thing that research gives is a point to look into to discover the genetic basis of transsexualism.
Just because your brain shares traits with the typical female brain it doesn't make you biologically female. Like you said, that would require a full dysmorphism change to the genetic/epigenetic level.
>>5291581
>Just because your brain shares traits with the typical female brain it doesn't make you biologically female.
Well, partly, it does. If it's the part of the brain that is responsible for gender identity you could argue that the biological reality of your brain is what makes you at least neurologically speaking a woman.
>>5291634
That's the point gender identity as people refer here is different from biological sex. Just because your brain tells you should have blue eyes, it doesn't mean your green eyes are blue.
>>5291655
No, you don't understand - anon is saying that certain cells in the brain literally have opposite-sex expression. Not that the neurologically-stored self-image is opposite sex. Remember that sex applies on the cellular level.
Replace 'brain' with 'arms' and you'll get a better picture. Say anon had a strip of cells on their arm that was entirely female. That's 'biologically female'
>>5291655
Except the whole point of medical transition is to alter phenotype.
Identity is bullshit on its own. Nothing more than disgusting cross dressing unless you link it to stuff that does alter expression/phenotype.
>>5291655
>Just because your brain tells you should have blue eyes, it doesn't mean your green eyes are blue.
That's nothing I've ever heard of, but okay. Thing is, there is ever more biological validity for the condition of transsexualism. It isn't just a figment of our imagination that trans women for example identify as women. Which is for me not the same as saying I'm fully biologically female. The term female and woman have inherently different meanings for me, simply because I know that there is more to an identity such as being a woman than for instance what chromosomes you have.
>>5291690
We agree on this, but point still is, until we get the methods for a perfect transition transsexuals will still belong to the biological sex they were born with.
>>5291687
You have to take into consideration the genetic expression on the whole body not just the brain.
>>5291697
>ere is ever more biological validity for the condition of transsexualism
I think the debate about this was over a long time ago, problem nowadays is transGENDERS and their whole subjective "identity" "issue".
I just hope they never try to push their agenda on objective science, this could be potentially dangerous for any kind of research based off objectivity.
>>5291754
How is identity 'subjective'? It's neurologically encoded.
Also:
> condition of transexualism
I was under the impression that transexuality was a behavior, not a condition.
>>5291754
>I think the debate about this was over a long time ago, problem nowadays is transGENDERS and their whole subjective "identity" "issue".
I don't really care. As long as they're not cringeworthy snowflakes I'll see them just as much as women or as men as people with the actual medical condition who transition. I'm not a fan of trying to tell people what they can and can't do when it doesn't hurt anyone. HRT etc should be a legal possibility for those people as well, it just shouldn't be subsidized with tax money without a diagnosis for a medical condition in my opinion.
This, fuck you degenerate faggot, I shouldn't have to pay for your bodily mutilation or be forced to agree with your bullshit antics.
>>5291768
>I was under the impression that transexuality was a behavior, not a condition.
Ever heard the term 'the human condition'? Condition can just means state of being.
>>5291768
Not possible to test through objective experiments, requires "research" done through self-reports, may differ from person to person, subjective.
Transsexualism is the brain having a shape that's either closer to the opposite sex or on a "middle ground". This is solid proof that there is a real basis to their claims of not identifying with their body dysmorphism. This obvious leads to a certain behavior.
>>5291754
>belong to the biological sex they were born with.
Why when you've altered your phenotypic traits to conform with the other sex?
Intersex if you want to be technical, but someone who's medically transitioned wouldn't be male by any of the clinical stuff they go by.
>>5291754
>genetic expression on the whole body not just the brain.
Which is mediated primarily by steroidal nuclear interactions. That can be altered by something as simple as HRT.
>>5291791
Well that's just too bad fuccboi because that's how it's going to go. I spend your tax monies and you get arrested for criticizing me.
What are you going to do about? Oh that's right nothing, because you're a little bitch boy. You're just going to cry on this here Mongolian tapestry and never accomplish anything :3c
Honestly, I'm a woman because I say I am. That's enough. If you have a problem with that, come and make something of it.
>>5291845
Except when the body is already formed, i.e. late transitioners and of course, genitalia.
Hopefully sweeden just started to found a research to study how to transplant uteruses to males (which obviously includes transsexuals).
>>5291826
>"research"
a great deal has been done to develop rigor in research based upon human responses, both in surveys, inteviews, and observational reporting.
Researchers have seen the same problems you see in terms of possible biases and inaccuracies and have worked to account for these for quite some time.
The physical sciences uses interpretation of indirect evidence, but they are extended the benefit of the doubt in terms of the rigor of their research. I recommend you do the same for social and human sciences.
>>5291885
They either change the answer given through some psychological rationalization of the answer, which is bs, or they are still susceptible to biased, subjective answers.
There was just a report from some time ago about how an underwhelmingly small number of psychological studies couldn't be reproduced. Just look at the absurd difference between men who consider themselves gay/bi, men who don't consider themselves hetero and men who actually consider themselves hetero. It's even worse when you try to see the difference based off groups of different cultures.
Physical researches are objectively measured even if not directly, they can be replicated and the data doesn't rely on someone's interpretation of a word.
>>5291850
Laugh now, cry later, dude.
Atleast I can go live my life as a functional responsible and most of all independent adult while you desperately jump through tons of mental hoops, needing the support of everyone around you to even feel like a human being and the strength of the overton window to force people on their knees to agree with your politics.
The strongest people are the ones who made it on their own and didnt need others to achieve their goals, you are a weak individual.
>>5291854
Like, hatesex? That could be nice.
>>5292025
That's a lot of bullshit in one post anon.
What ever you need to tell yourself to keep going on senpai :^)
>>5292025
Strong individuals don't spend their time bragging about how much stronger they are than everyone else. That's a classic sign of overcompensating for perceived inadequacy.
>>5291953
>There was just a report from some time ago about how an underwhelmingly small number of psychological studies couldn't be reproduced.
I'm assuming this is a typo and you mean 'could'.
However, the examples you gave for accounting for biases shows you actually have a very limited understanding the of the techniques involved.
It is still a work in progress, but that's due to the subject matter, no the desire for rigor.
Other sciences also have problems. Astronomy and geology often rely on on purely observational work, with limited replication of predictions due to the scale. Each science has it's own restrictions that make the ideal experimental model for results difficult.
And techniques have been and are being designed and evaluated to overcome those difficulties.
Putting the terms research in quotation marks implies doubt in the researchers, above simply acknowledging the difficulty of the subject.
Simply because the subject is difficult to understand does not mean we should stop trying answer questions as best we can.
>>5291861
That means younger transitioners who weren't full grown sexualy mature men have a fair amount of phenotype plasticity and so long as you have the neoteny you can substantially alter sex traits.
Entirely agree that the creepy old men like Miranda Yardley who "transition" in their forties and never get any corrective procedures save SRS, are men in every phenotypic way.
Bet that's why he wrote parliament asking them to ban anyone remotely young from HRT.
>>5292067
Truth. People who are actually successful in life don't really care enough about what others are doing to bitch about it like pmsing little girls.
Truth be told if he truly happy and strong he wouldn't need a 3 paragraph post trying to convince others how much better he is. Truth be told he's probably more likely trying to convince himself.
Its kinda pathetic tbqh senpai
>>5291885
Doubt it,
It doesn't matter what you do to dress pseudosciencees like sociology and parts of psychology when they're all based on conjectures that have nothing to do with natural laws.
They'll never be as trust worthy as clinical evidence.
>>5292079
Wasn't a typo.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/8/27/9216565/psychology-studies-reproducability-issues
http://www.theverge.com/2015/8/27/9216565/psychology-studies-reproducability-issues
And regarding those other sciences, they are NOT similar to the problems of subjective researches. A person can lie, a person can misinterpret and a person can change, those two fields you cited only due to miscalculations and lack of scientific tools.
>best we can
On those cases might as well stop wasting public found money on it, since it doesn't lead to any reliable conclusion.
>>5292053
I'm actually going quite steady Anon, I used to live in a much worse mental state than you do now, but managed to come out of it a lot stronger, and I did it alone.
>>5292067
Pretty sad that you disregard it as bragging bro, I truly believe all of you can be strong individuals, just not by demanding everyone else to treat you like special snowflakes and shutting up everyone who disagrees with you.
>>5292079
Couldn't, most psych and sociology studies are P-hacked in fact.
Independent reviews put it above 60%
>>5291718
Absurd when you consider medical transiton alters sex characteristics.
As much as you'd want medicine banned and to go back to a shamanistic Stone Age, that isn't the way things are done.
>>5292137
>demanding everyone else to treat you like special snowflakes and shutting up everyone who disagrees with you.
That's not what anyone is advocating doing in this thread, or on this board in general. Disagreeing with you isn't the same as censorship.
>>5292137
I'm sure if you keep repeating it you'll convince yourself eventually anon :^)
>>5292173
That's what your despicable movement is advocating though, genital mutilation and forcing others to confirm your own delusions of being something you're not.
We seriously need to rethink our psychology and medical evaluation if we cater to the feelings of people with a mental disorder.
>>5292222
Thanks for the great reply!
>>5292301
>We seriously need to rethink our psychology and medical evaluation if we cater to the feelings of people with a mental disorder.
The only kind of "rethinking" that will result in a major change in the medical treatment of transgender people is if we decide that medical treatments should no longer be chosen on the basis of their effectiveness. Something which I'm sure even you would find absurd.
>>5292301
You mean common sense treatment for a endocrine and neurological condition.
Why someone like you with no higher education feels that medicine should stop practicing on others just because you dislike it is beyond me.
It's as infantile as you can get. Stop begging the state to interfere in science and medicine and stick to to running stuff you're capable of.
>>5292374
Hippocrates talks about using castration to treat these issues in Airs, Waters, and Places .
You. Don't know the least about what you're talking about and yet you claim the doctors should be banned because your kneejerk feelings.
You'd have made the classical Greeks weep with that demagoguery.
>>5292374
Trannies DO fall under the Hippocratic Oath. That's why the current treatment is used. Insisting that we use a less effective treatment because the current treatment is an idea you're uncomfortable with would be a blatant violation of the Hippocratic Oath.
