>claiming that you feel like a woman makes you more disadvantaged than having a genetic disorder that sterilizes you
>>5275478
Yes, gender dysphoria is more severe than mere sterility.
>>5275509
I thought gender was a social construct
People don't hate intersex people for merely existing. There also isn't groups of people demonizing them as some malevolent threat to society.
I think the all the privilege nonsense is ridiculous, but I can see where they're coming from.
>>5275522
Nope, to some extent gender roles are, but gender identity (what is generally meant when you talk about a person's gender) is primarily biological.
>>5275509
>mere sterility
>being unable to reproduce
>"mere"
>>5275478
Transgender is not worse than intersex, at least we can pretend to be normal
>>5275535
oh so you're one of these people who think that the only thing that matters is whether or not you get made fun of on the internet
in this case you're literally saying that people who can't reproduce and have messed-up genitalia is small potatoes compared to being giggled at on 4chan
-475 do i win?
>>5275478
Wow this is so stupid in so many ways.
Like religion is entirely dependent on your society, it's not the same in every place. In liberal places it's definitely a lot easier to be an atheist than a Christian. Also the fact that it doesn't list Sikhism, Hinduism or Buddhism (or even a blanket cover of Dharmic religions) despite them all having more followers than Judaism is fucked up.
Disability leaves out mental health problems.
If you have a same sex partner then how is it any easier being bisexual or pansexual than gay? And at least gays don't get the hate from within lgbt that bisexuals do.
It misuses the term plutocrat, which means deriving power from wealth. A person can do that with any amount of wealth if done well.
Appearance forgot ginger!
>>5275574
In comparison to having gender dysphoria, it's effect on your life is a lot less severe. You may be unhappy about not being able to reproduce, but you can still adopt, and the only way it will cause relationship difficulties is if your partner insists on having biological children. Outside of reproduction and sexual relationships, it doesn't really affect you at all; for all intents and purposes, you're just a normal man or woman. Whereas being trans people are usually infertile AND have to deal with dysphoria, wanting to kill themselves, people hating them and calling them disgusting fetishists, etc. And unless they're lucky enough to pass everyone sees them as freaks.
>>5275580
In like 99% of cases, being trans is FAR worse than intersex.
>>5275541
Dysphoria isn't a biological phenomenon though
>>5275583
Trans people generally can't reproduce, and often have messed up genitalia as well. Pretty much everything intersex people have to deal with, trans people have to deal with that, ant more. But yes, the social aspect is a large part of privilege - being trans hurts your reputation and social life a lot more than being intersex.
>>5275609
It's not? Pretty much all the scientific research points to it having a biological origin.
>>5275599
It can't be that bad if you can live as a wildly successful male athlete and have several children before deciding to transition at 60. I think the struggle of dysphoria is massively over blown. I think you want to make it seem worse than it is. How bad can it be if you can live an entire male life and be extremely successful at it all while having dysphoria?
>being a normal body size is privilege
no it's called being in control of your own life
>religion
is a choice cry me a river
>>5275619
You understand that those studies were funded and carried out by people who were actively trying to legitimize gender dysphoria right?
>>5275535
people do hate intersex people for existing because they don't fit in. it's hate, but there's pity there too that takes the edge off. people are more willing to think someone intersex is a twink or a dyke or a non-binary trans person, and a lot of intersex people transition to be more like one thing. they aren't demonised as a threat to society because their existence is usually just plain denied. no information and knee-jerk reactions is just as bad as misinformation and knee-jerk reactions. i've been laughed at, bullied and threatened for my condition before i even knew i had it- i thought i was just a random freak. intersex people often hate themselves too. i'd like to meet another intersex person that hasn't had a huge identity crisis at some point.
i've had people spit in my face an say in a shocked/disgusted tone 'what.... are... you?' before i even started transitioning. intersex isn't fun, trans isn't fun, and trans people often shit on intersex people for 'having it easier'.
trans is probably the same as intersex on the bullshit scale. also autism on that, holy hell
>>5275637
I'm pretty sure Jenner had relatively mild dysphoria (it's known to not be equal in intensity for everyone) because most trannies completely hate themselves as men and would rather kill themselves than live to 60 as a man.
>>5275654
How can you claim that dysphoria is worse than anything if it can be so mild?
>>5275650
[citation needed]
>>5275651
Seems that the general public (as well as the anti-trans crowd) seems to think intersex people are more legit than trannies, presumably because they assume that being physically intersex is more "real" than gender dysphoria caused by the brain which no one can really see.
>>5275661
For some people it is extremely debilitating, for others not so much. That's the whole point I was making by it being not equal in intensity for everyone.
>>5275664
What are these studies you're referring to then anon? Let's take a look at who the people are that actually did the study and who paid for it
>>5275583
>putting words into my mouth
Nice try, but I couldn't care less about what some retards on 4chan say. I'm talking about real discrimination and hate that manifests irl. Not just in the west, but globally. Not saying intersex or infertile people don't have it bad either, but their condition is nowhere near as reviled and politicized.
>inb4 muh victim complex
>inb4 muh oppreshun olympics
>>5275611
>Trans people generally can't reproduce, and often have messed up genitalia as well.
Yeah, intentionally and voluntarily.
I've got no sympathy for them.
>>5275673
You're the one that started out claiming they were biased. That implies you know these studies and who did them. Burden of proof is on you.
>being autistic is 150 points worst than being paralyzed.
>clearly this poster was made by autistic feminists trying to get as little privilege points as possible.
>>5275672
Is their any objective way to measure this, or are we only to take the word of the individual on the matter?
>>5275678
>Nice try, but I couldn't care less about what some retards on 4chan say
Then why are you getting so butthurt about this?
>>5275681
It's "intentionally and voluntarily" done as the only effective treatment for a medical condition. Nice to know you have no sympathy for people who require medical treatments.
>>5275688
>Is their any objective way to measure tranny things
Lol of course not, if there were it would utterly destroy the whole tranny narrative.
Same reason gays have suppressed research into finding a "gay gene".
Why do women do this? I understand they can't see passed their own privilege but are they really this self centered?
>>5275688
Not really, until we can do brain scans of every patient (and that's assuming brain scans do indeed show the full extent of dysphoria). For now it's evaluated more on how much it affects the person's life. I mean sure, someone could lie about having extremely debilitating dysphoria, but what's the point? All they'd get out of it is hormones, which wouldn't really do them much good unless they really did have gender dysphoria.
>>5275694
>the only effective treatment for a medical condition
I know why you're repeating this myth, but I really wish you wouldn't.
>>5275709
>For now it's evaluated more on how much a person claims that it affects their life.
Fixed.
>>5275664
i thought the general public had no idea intersex people existed, everyone knows what a hermaphrodite is but most people are thick as shit and the idea of a wide range of genetic and hormonal disorders causing a variety of expressions of body types, characteristics and genitals all grouped under one generic term seems a bit out of reach, considering a lot of people i know not even knowing the difference between trans people and crossdressers and thinking trans men don't exist, and trans stuff is way more prominent in the media.
people with only high school biology understand 'i want to live my life as a woman' much easier than 'i was born halfway between male and female due to a genetic mutation and its made my body hella fucked up'
>>5275684
I've done this test with many different studies on transgender related subject matter and found them to be biased every time so far. If you would like to post the ones you referred to specifically, we can do this same test. Just post them and I'll do all the rest of the work.
>>5275650
>muh conspiracy
Literally none of the researchers involved are trans are linked to even WPATH
>>5275709
What's the point? People lie about worse things then gender dysphoria all of the time. People are liars in general
>>5275735
Post the study and let's do the test then
>>5275725
You're not going to make a difference by enlightening anons on 4chan about the tranny SJW conspiracy. Why don't you publish your criticisms and show it to the actual medical community so you can do some good?
>>5275735
this desu.
>>5275736
Lying is generally done to achieve a certain goal. There's really nothing for non-trans people to gain by pretending to be trans.
>>5275741
>There's really no other treatment that's made it through scientific testing. There was one test using a drug, but the test had a literal sample size of 1, and that person had "uncertain dysphoria" to begin with.
1) Transitioning is not a "treatment" in any sense of the word, the people who do it are not "cured" in the end and no palliative effects are achieved. It does nothing except hand tens of thousands of dollars to doctors and drug companies and leave the "patient" a mutilated wreck.
2) If there's been no scientific testing, then where the fuck do you get off claiming that you're right about this? You either have proof or you do not, you don't get to say "Well, there's no proof, therefore I'm right!", that's fucking cartoon logic.
>>5275751
No, people lie just to lie all of the time, especially about having illnesses and mental disorders. It's happens actually with extreme frequency. Something as indefinable as gender dysphoria is sure to be lied about a lot as well.
>>5275751
>There's really nothing for non-trans people to gain by pretending to be trans.
Wow you're fucking dumb.
How about attention? Or the fulfillment of a sexual fetish?
What about being able to claim victim status to receive privileged treatment?
Or just plain old-fashioned identity politics?
I mean how can you be this absolutely oblivious to why someone would lie about being trans? Have you never met or seen anyone who was obviously pretending to be transsexual for one of the above things? They're goddamned *everywhere*.
>>5275751
All I'm going to do is look up the researchers who are doing these studies, see what their backgrounds and beliefs are and see who is funding them
>>5275765
>1) Transitioning is not a "treatment" in any sense of the word, the people who do it are not "cured" in the end and no palliative effects are achieved. It does nothing except hand tens of thousands of dollars to doctors and drug companies and leave the "patient" a mutilated wreck.
It doesn't actually eliminate dysphoria - but no currently available method can do that without killing the patient. It does substantially help in relieving the symptoms of dysphoria however.
>2) If there's been no scientific testing, then where the fuck do you get off claiming that you're right about this? You either have proof or you do not, you don't get to say "Well, there's no proof, therefore I'm right!", that's fucking cartoon logic.
I didn't say there was no testing. I said no other treatment has made it through testing, i.e. every test of alternative treatments for dysphoria has shown them to be ineffective.
>>5275787
Scientists who allow their bias to get in the way of scientific objectivity have no business in science. If you've really found something out about the scientists, you'd be violating scientific ethics to NOT inform the scientific community that these studies are invalid.
>>5275794
How can you know if the dysphoria is being relieved if their is no way to objectively measure or quantify dysphoria?
>>5275806
I'm sorry to shatter your illusions, but the scientific field is as politically bias and unethical as the fourth estate is. Scientists are as easily bought as politicians. We don't live in an ethical world
>>5275808
Just because there's no objective scientific measurement of dysphoria, that doesn't mean it's impossible to quantify it. Otherwise you'd have to throw out all treatments for mental/psychological conditions.
>>5275826
And how come the anti-trans crowd hasn't funded any studies to disprove gender dysphoria?
>>5275835
How do you quantify dysphoria then?
>>5275509
>I had a dilation procedure performed for almost every exam I had with intersex doctors from the time I was 8 until I was 16, so that they could check how long my vagina was as I grew. I absolutely hated these procedures. I mean, imagine a man as old as your father or your grandfather, who you don’t know, inserting a medical dildo into you each time you saw him, knowing that you can’t question the doctor’s orders and just accept that you have to undergo these uncomfortable procedures for your health.
http://www.autostraddle.com/brought-to-you-by-the-letter-i-why-intersex-politics-matters-to-lgbt-activism-192760/
>>5275842
How can you disprove something that only exists within the psyche of an individual and has no objective way of being measured?
>>5275842
>how come the anti-trans crowd hasn't funded any studies to disprove gender dysphoria?
Because you can't prove a negative, dipshit.
Trannies say dysphoria exists. Alright then, prove it.
You can't prove it? Then it doesn't exist. QED.
This is the exact same logic you'd use for literally every other thing in your daily life, yet for some reason you can't figure it out for this particular thing. Why is that?
>>5275881
That isn't an objective measure of dysphoria though. It's still just taking the word of an individual about something that can wildly vary from mild enough to live a wildly successful masculine male life up until 60 before transitioning to severe enough to cause suicide. There needs to be some objective measure of dysphoria in order to prove that there is any way to treat it in the first place.
Also, an anti transgender group funding a study is just as bias as a pro transgender group funding a study. It would need to be done by someone divorced from sentiment and politics
>>5275902
>Also, an anti transgender group funding a study is just as bias as a pro transgender group funding a study. It would need to be done by someone divorced from sentiment and politics
That's not the point though. Obviously REAL answers would only come from non-biased studies. But the point is, if you're claiming that all the studies are made by biased pro-trans scientists, where are all the studies by biased anti-trans scientists?
>>5275895
Just because it isn't proven right now doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. We go off the best knowledge we have which is that many people have a problem and supplying hormones tends to help the problem.
>>5275917
What? Why would one necessitate the existence of the other?
>>5275923
How can you measure such a thing in any objective way though? You can't even really prove the problem exists in the first place let alone prove that any treatment helps it
>>5275931
There's a fairly large number of people who are dedicated to "proving" that transition is totally ineffective. It seems odd that they haven't funded any studies to support their viewpoint.
>>5275937
What objective proof is there of headaches?
>>5275939
They're just as bias as the people trying to prove that it's effective then.
>>5275937
Something is happening when a large group of people claim to have a condition. It might not be completely objective but HRT is better than nothing. There are a few other things that anti-trans people claim to work. I would like to see them as widely tested as HRT and have the patients report if they feel better.
>>5275949
Exactly, but you don't see that happening. That would suggest that science is NOT as corrupt as has been claimed and that the scientists who support the "trans agenda" aren't doing so because of bias but because that's what the scientific evidence actually supports.
>>5275959
It doesn't suggest that at all. post one of these studies and let's to the test to find out
>>5275955
"Something" isn't really enough to draw an objective conclusion
>>5275976
Oh well. People feel better and there isn't any other alternative that is in widespread medical knowledge. If you have something that you feel people should do instead that has a satisfaction rate as high as HRT does currently, I would be very interested.
>>5275944
I guess you could argue that headaches don't exist to somebody who's never had one, but most people of all walks of life have. That's not the case with dysphoria
>>5275979
Anon, it's satisfaction in relieving a symptom that has no objective way of being measured. How is this satisfaction quantified?
>>5275990
You might care. In this case I don't particularly care. Semantics can be argued but if you have a better solution that is more logical than something that appears to work pretty well, you should post it. If you don't, you can keep talking about things being quantified.
>>5275996
Alright, but don't talk about your solution being backed by science when it isn't
>>5276002
Not that anon, but what research has been done generally indicates that it is effective, even if it's not all strict and objective. Basically, if 100 people report feeling miserable before treatment, and 98 of those people report feeling better after treatment, there's a good chance the treatment is indeed effective, especially if there's a control group to rule out other causes. That means something at least, and for now that's the best we have.
>>5276007
People also shouldn't be lead to believe that it is an objective solution before it is objectively proven.
>>5276011
Post some of this research and let's put it to the test
>>5276013
It is however, a possible solution. You can argue that it's not objective. However, from the individual claiming to feel dysphoria's perspective, the current medical research suggests that it can have a positive effect. It would most definitely be objective to choose a treatment that has the most research that turns up positive results.
>>5276022
This research has no objective measure so it means nothing. It's just taking a survey of a person's personal feelings. Like I said, post some of it and let's take a look at the people who are carrying out this research, who they're studying, when they did the study, who funded the study and why they wanted to fund it.
>>5276011
>if 100 people report feeling miserable before treatment, and 98 of those people report feeling better after treatment
But this isn't even remotely the ratio that's actually reported.
You're just inventing numbers now to support your point.
>>5276037
No, I was just using an extreme example to make a point. The idea is that it is possible to have substantial evidence than a treatment helps, even if there's no actual objective way of measuring the condition.
>>5276036
Assuming this is the case and there is a widespread conspiracy to cover up the fact that results of peered reviewed research is actively being censored, it would be nice to have material that concluded that HRT was ineffective. I never claimed that the research was objective like the other anon. Considering that you are claiming this, I urge you to post the biased research you're talking about.
>>5276050
Helps with what? Relieving dysphoria that has no way of being measured? What people are we talking about? Who are these researchers and where did they find these people for this study?
>>5276052
I'm suggesting that you can't draw a conclusion about the effectiveness of treating dysphoria when there is no objective way to measure dysphoria to begin with
>>5276061
It's measured based on how much the patient (and possibly any witnesses) is affected by dysphoria.
>>5276052
What research are you talking about?
>>5276070
I never drew any conclusions. I merely said that it is objective to CHOOSE the solution with the most research behind it, trusting science (which you are questioning). I have repeatedly asked you if there are better solutions but you keep talking about objectivity of the research itself.
>>5275478
Damn. You're really taking the piss out of this fake, wannabe-satirical poster. Great job.
>>5276072
How do they acquire this information on how dysphoria affects an individual?
>>5276080
By what the patient reports, basically the same as any other psychological condition.
>>5276077
This solution isn't backed up by science though
>>5276086
This research then is only a survey of personal feelings. I would make the same criticism of any psychological study that lacks objectivity
>>5276091
That doesn't change that basing treatments on "a survey of personal feelings" does seem to help more than doing nothing.
>>5276106
>That doesn't change that basing treatments on "a survey of personal feelings" does seem to help more than doing nothing.
Yeah but we're not talking about sugar pills here, we're talking about mutilating bodies and sterilizing people. That's a pretty serious step.
>>5276111
Sterilizing people isn't really a loss, since dysphoria prevents them from reproducing in the first place. "Mutilation" is a pretty subjective term, and the more extreme stuff like SRS isn't done without a lot of evaluation.
>>5276106
What people in what study?
>>5276124
Dysphoria didn't stop Bruce Jenner from having many children and living as a masculine man until he was 60. Many people who transition later in life have children
>>5276138
Again, that's an unusual case. Many doubt if Jenner really has dysphoria, many trans people wouldn't be able to function as long as he did without transitioning so it's somewhat doubtful if transition was really necessary for her.
>>5276149
What makes your doubts on Jenners dysphoria valid, but others doubts in dysphoria invalid? Who decides which individuals actually have dysphoria and which ones are disingenuous?
>>5276166
Dysphoria should be doubted, even if there's no actual test for dysphoria, you shouldn't give HRT to anyone who says they want to be a girl, you should try to rule out other causes (e.g. just being gay, being confused by gender roles, thinking it's easier as a girl because of "grass is greener" etc) first, because obviously you don't want to give people the treatment for dysphoria unless it actually seems like they have it. And Jenner's case is especially questionable because of how long she went without seriously looking into transition.
>>5275478
Most intersex people never transition, its not like you pick one or the other. If you're an intersex'd tranny you're beyond ridiculous levels of special snowflake in how rare your existence is.
Depending on your intersex condition, you can range from like 1 in a million, to 1 in 100 million
>>5276172
So what's the line between actually having dysphoria and just thinking that you do? How do you quantity the experience of feeling dysphoria?
>>5276177
That's the job of the gender therapist to figure out. Not being a gender therapist, I don't really know the details, but I imagine it has something to do with the criteria in the DSM.
>>5276182
Do you know of any gender therapists who have written on the matter?
>>5276193
Not off the top of my head, however there is a pretty large trans community on this board, so if you asked about it (either in a new thread, or possibly in the trans help general) they might be able to find something.
>>5276215
I've tried, and nobody has been able to show me anything regarding this subject matter
>>5276248
How do you discern who truly has dysphoria and who just think that they do?
>>5276257
How much they function in day to day life, just like you do with things like schizophrenia.
>>5276260
What is the objective level of daily function one can have before they no longer are able to claim having dysphoria?
>>5276272
dysphoria is just a debilitating condition. it's independent of other faactors in life, except of course those caused by societal reaction to dysphoria.
this is not a remotely difficult concept to grasp. what do you need, the WPATH guidelines and their empirical justification? do you need some transsexual lackey to go fetch heavily scrutinized peer-reviewed research so you can besmirch it in the same fallacious manner you've been smugly dispelling each "argument"?
>>5276334
Dysphoria can range from mild enough to live as a male Olympic athlete until he is 60 before transitioning to severe enough to cause suicide. There needs to be some objective measure of it to discern these things in individuals.
If there is a study, I would like to see it
>>5276353
>there needs to be some objective measure to discern these things in individuals
where do you pull that imperative from? why is that a necessity? here's the form of reasoning:
- dysphoria is an established medical condition
- treatment by sex reassignment and cross-sex hormone therapy exists
- when a therapist verifies that a patient likely has dysphoria, that patient should therefore be treated
it's not even expensive treatment. loads of people don't even get SRS and SRS is a long term goal anyway, so only a serious transitioner would actually bother. the rest of it isn't covered by health care so it has literally no impact on you.
you want studies verifying the legitimacy of gender dysphoria? literally just google it. scholar.google.com, jstor, wherever the fuck you want to look for it. hey, i'm sure you'll find plenty of people who disagree with treatment too, because this is the scientific community. how is this difficult?
>>5276353
hey look, the second result
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J056v05n04_08
wow another
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00918369.2012.653300
this is so difficult i'd better ask someone on lgbt to do it for me
>>5276353
you know what, i'm acting like an asshole. sorry. rough day.
>>5276403
There is no way to objectively measure dysphoria, so it is not an established medical condition
>>5276466
that's not true. depression is a medical condition that can't be quantified. anxiety is a medical condition that can't be quantified. i'm just going to assume you're trolling and i won't have any good actual arguments tonight at this point, sorry.
> autism 4x worse than being blind
hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
>>5276410
Both of these studies completely lack objectivity, as they were carried out by people who have a extremely strong posting bias towards transgenderism. Their entire careers are specifically in sexuality. They are career pro transgender activists
Peggy T. Cohen-Kettenis
Gender Studies, Gender Roles, Gender Identity, Sexual Behavior, Gender And Development, Adolescents, Qualitative Analysis, Feminist Theory, Child Development, Adolescent Development, Culture, Sociology, Gender and Science, Young Adults
Walter Bockting
After received his doctoral degree in psychology from the Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam, The Netherlands, Dr. Bockting for 20 years directed transgender health services at the Program in Human Sexuality at the University of Minnesota. He also served on the graduate faculty of Gender and Sexuality Studies and was a co-founder of the University’s Leo Fung Center for Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia and Disorders of Sex Development. Dr. Bockting’s research interests include gender identity development, transgender health, sexuality and the Internet, and HIV prevention. His work has been supported by grants from the National Institutes of Health, the American Foundation for AIDS Research, and the Minnesota Department of Health.
Eli Coleman
He is one of the past-presidents of theSociety for the Scientific Study of Sexuality, theWorld Professional Association for Transgender Health(formerly the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association), theWorld Association for Sexual Health (WAS), and theInternational Academy of Sex Research. In 2013, he became President of theSociety for Sex Therapy and Research
These are the least objective people to be doing these studies
>>5276504
If you are rejecting peer reviewed papers like this, then there is a very large amount of accepted scientific literature ranging from GMO safety to physics that you will reject. I agree that there should be more diversity this field of research but it seems like you're just looking for things to be contrarian.
>>5276471
Depression and anxiety are experience felt by the vast majority of human beings, while gender dysphoria is not. It's a much more extreme psychological claim than saying you're anxious or depressed or feel pain
>>5276504
None of that really seems to indicate bias, it just means that this studies fall within their area of expertise, which is exactly what one would expect. Focusing on the science of gender does not necessarily mean one supports the current "trans agenda". Indeed, if I was a person who believed that the currently accepted transition treatments were ineffective and I wanted to prove that and find a better treatment, those are the exact areas I would want to study. Regardless of whether one is for or against the current medical treatments for trans people, it would be expected that someone conducting research on it would somehow be involved in the field of gender psychology. It certainly wouldn't make sense for an economist or a mechanical engineer to do studies on gender identity.
>>5276520
Their peers are literally all in heavily pro transgender organizations funded by AIDS foundations. There is literally no objectivity in the field whatsoever. Do you know who these people and their peers are, or do you just bow to their word because they have peers and phds in gender studies?
>>5276521
This is not a logical argument gender dysphoria. There is a significant population of people claiming to experience dysphoria. Judging from your other posts there isn't a point in debating this with you because you are either being intentionally contrarian or you are so set in believing your current beliefs that you will never accept any other possibilities of being possibly true.
>>5276504
>study on something dealing with sexuality
>the researchers have a history of studying sexuality.
HOW DARE THEY
Your post doesn't prove that they are biased, just experianced.
How was their data gathering flawed? What was wrong with their analysis? Where are the problems in their statistical models?
Where, in short, is there any evidence that their history resulted in them doing bad research.
>>5276527
>none of this indicates bias
>the president of the World Professional Association for Transgender Health
All of these people are fully biased towards transgender people
>>5275478
Transgender isn't a gender...
>>5276533
There are also a massive number of people who believe that Allah compels them to kill infidels. You need more than just believing in something to prove it is real.
>>5276548
How does "World Professional Association for Transgender Health" imply bias? That just means transgender health is their specialty, which makes perfect sense for one doing studies on TRANSGENDER HEALTH.
>>5276548
your assuming a directionality without evidence.
How do you know that they became pro-transgender before learning anything about the subject, and therefore everything they researched and learned was totally biased?
When they could have started studying the subjected, learned things about it, and from those conclusions became pro-transgender health.
>>5276574
You seem to have an inflated view of your own opinion. It does not matter what you believe. The current accepted medical practice to treat transgender individuals is HRT. This is based on the accepted scientific research. If you do not agree with this research then you can do your own and publish a peer reviewed paper. Gender dysphoria is an accepted condition.
>>5276577
How does it mean bias? When would this man ever publish anything that goes against the transgender narrative?
>>5276594
>All of these people are politically motivated and funded.
Based on what?
And what background would you prefer the people doing these studies have? Realtors? Coal miners? Astronomers? Would you distrust a study on cancer because it was done by people who study cancer?
>>5276594
It seems like you do not understand scientific research. Funding and political stances do raise flags but the actual research data is what matters. You are the one not being objective anymore. I'm going to stop responding as you have not suggested any alternative research and you are most likely being intentionally contrarian.
I suppose it's fun to throw around objectivity because you can continuously find ad hominem evidence for disproving something. It seems like you are motivated by something as well and it's not objectivity.
>>5276591
Except it can't be measured objectively so there is no way to actually determine the effectiveness of HRT
>>5276607
>When would this man ever publish anything that goes against the transgender narrative?
Why are you assuming that everyone who studies transgender issues follows some agenda? Don't you realize that within a field of study there are always disagreements?
>>5276608
Objective psychologists
>>5276622
Objective as in having no specific background in gender issues?
>>5276613
Because they do, if you read their bios for five seconds
>>5276627
What? The part of the bios that say their specialty happens to be the same as the field they're conducting studies in?
>>5276607
>When would this man ever publish anything that goes against the cigarettes cause cancer narrative?
>When would this man ever publish anything that goes against the lead is toxic narrative?
>When would this man ever publish anything that goes against the DDT is bad for the environment narrative?
>>5276626
No, just not having their entire careers in gender studies. Their careers are dependent on treating transgender people
>>5276644
Okay, so you want these studies done by people who don't treat transgender people? Should studies on cancer be done by people who don't treat cancer victims?
>>5276633
Oh its all just a coincidence is it? There's no way they could be weaving a narrative with these studies
>>5276655
Yes, studies need to be objective and divorced from sentiment
>>5276667
More likely, it's because the results of studies support a consistent theory. That's the "narrative" you refer to. Is the existence of gravity a "narrative"?
>>5276675
So sentiment == having experience in a field of study?
>>5276679
There is no way to objectively measure dysphoria though
>>5276692
The same goes for most other psychological conditions. They still show a consistent pattern.
>>5276590
These people are liberal academics. They've always had a bias towards transgenderism
>>5276699
Those conditions should be questioned as well
>>5276702
>they're wrong because they're liberal!
Remind me again how YOU'RE supposed to be the non-biased one here?
>>5276704
So we should just stop treating them and pretend they don't exist? It sounds like that's what you're advocating.
>>5276702
given that you have no evidence that they are liberal, other than that they are academics, there is no way to win with you.
Anyone whose trained to conduct the study is an academics, so they are liberal and biased.
Anyone who'd be interested in conducting the study is someone studying psychology and gender, therefore they are biased.
so until you can actually point out a flaw in the study and not an attack on the author, ie an ad hominem fallacy, there is nothing worth saying to you.
>>5276731
Come on anon. You need proof they're liberal?
